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Geneva 2008: Volkswagen Golf Hybrid comes with 83.1 MPG

chewy submitted on 02/20/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 9:02 PM
from: www.channel4.com

[107] user comments | category: New Cars

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Tags: VW, Golf, Rabbit, Toyota, Prius, Hybrid

Tag Links: VW, Golf, Rabbit, Toyota, Prius, Hybrid

Geneva 2008: Volkswagen Golf Hybrid comes with 83.1 MPG

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enthusiastx11 - 2/20/2008 9:41:21 PM

+7 Boost

pretty impressive...substantially better emissions and MPG than a prius. and more importantly, it will actually be FUN TO DRIVE.

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chris760 - 2/20/2008 11:51:17 PM

+10 Boost

better in every dimension than the prius...

enthusiastx11 - 2/21/2008 6:40:41 PM

0 Boost

ok lexus, i'll generously assume your sources are correct. (doubtful)

so take 20% off the golf's mileage of 83mpg to account for additional oil that goes into diesel production and you get...66MPG. STILL better than the prius. and it'll be a ton of fun to drive while the prius has the driving dynamics of a box.

golf WINS for anyone who likes to drive.

1970toyotamarc - 2/21/2008 6:56:58 PM

-1 Boost

"substantially better emissions and MPG than a prius. and more importantly, it will actually be FUN TO DRIVE."
marginally better emissions...but it's still a concept.
estimated better mpg...but it's still a concept.
fun to drive...but it's still a Golf.

enthusiastx11 - 2/21/2008 7:06:23 PM

0 Boost

"fun to drive...but it's still a Golf"

yes, and it's fun to drive. a prius (still a toyota) drive like a box.

car and driver said it best: "a snooze to drive" and
"Corollas are fireballs next to this machine. With skinny tires, numb steering, and a soft suspension, the Prius is about economy."

http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_guide/toyota/prius/2008_toyota_prius

so like i said, if you like to drive the golf is the obvious choice.

Homer008 - 2/21/2008 8:04:12 PM

0 Boost

If, I had a choice between this thing which is still only a concept and Toyota Prius...I'ld honestly take Prius. Come on folks..be real..this is only a concept for now. If they do so decide to build it, fine. But my question is this: how gullable are some of you people? Go get some fresh air for god's sakes!!!!!

eric452 - 2/20/2008 9:46:24 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Toyota prius got PWNED!
LOL

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kablaam - 2/21/2008 4:21:11 PM

+4 Boost

Did you expect emissions/mpg to get worse as time went on?

I don't get it.

P.S.: The '86 Accord just got PWNED by the '08 Accord, it's unbelievable!

1970toyotamarc - 2/21/2008 6:57:52 PM

-1 Boost

PWNED (how old are you?) by a concept? I think not.

djrickp - 2/20/2008 10:44:25 PM

+7 Boost

What's more interesting is that it's a diesel-electric hybrid as the original article mentions.

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TurboSpyder - 2/20/2008 11:47:15 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Ok, that makes more sense. I was trying to figure out how those mileage claims were possible.

1970toyotamarc - 2/21/2008 6:54:13 PM

-3 Boost

it's just a concept.

atomicbri - 2/23/2008 8:53:22 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Concept close to reality

LexusKindaGuy12 - 2/20/2008 11:07:10 PM

-7 Boost

im still not convinced that diesel is the way to go. Im glad that it gets such high mpg and such low CO2 emmisions,but what about other problems that are associated with diesel gas. particles etc etc

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S4cabriofoxone - 2/20/2008 11:44:22 PMView My AgentSpace

+9 Boost

I'm quite sure it will have BlueMotion technology.

Rupert - 2/21/2008 12:48:52 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Particulate filters reduce particles to below petrol engine levels.

zorbeeze - 2/21/2008 1:45:19 PM

+4 Boost

Everyone is a scientist now huh.
Diesel is not as clean as everyone asumes and it is not the way to go in the future.

TheSailor - 2/21/2008 5:46:02 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Ohh bugger off! People talking about all that harmful particulate comming from diesels should shut up and do some reading! The particulate emmited from the ENTIRE automotive transport sector (cars, trucks, busses and farming equipment) accounts for less than 3% of the total particulate in the atmosphere. Volcanos for instance accounts for more than 30%! So if you really want to save all those people with asthma, you should go and shove a particulate filter in a Volcano... Or perhaps a forrest fire! The fact of the matter is that this is just something the manufacturers (and legislators) are doing to satisfy people who don't know what they are talking about! Also, don't forget (as Rupert mentioned) that gasoline engines emmit PM aswell, and unlike a diesel car, the colder exhaust temperatures mean that you can't fit a particulate filter to a gasoline car as it would simply clog up in a matter of hours! A unfiltered diesel car emmits roughly 5 times the PM of a gasoline car, however newer particulate filters have an efficiency of about 99%! That means that a filtered diesel engine emmits 1/20th of what a modern gasoline with similar fuel economy will do... So you were saying? yeah... That's what I thought!

1970toyotamarc - 2/21/2008 7:03:25 PM

+1 Boost

Paticulate matter may not matter much in the atmosphere, but it sure matters in the air above the cities. (matter matters, sometimes i crack myself up)

That being said, I am sure this is one of those cleaner diesels, but we don't know, since it's just a CONCEPT.

If and when this car comes out, all the technology it will need-cleaner diesel (bluemotion or whatever), hybrid, turbos-will make it prohibitively expensive. If a car can get the mpg and emissions this one claims, it will do so at a hefty premium. Not to mention cost of diesel fuel, small packaging, 0-60 times. The way y'all are talking, this thing sounds like a $20,000 Tesla. Sign me up.

TheSailor - 2/21/2008 7:13:04 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Now you're just talking out of your ass, desperately trying to find something aren't you?! The 1.9TDI which most probably being used is actually cheaper (yes CHEAPER) than the comparable 1.6 gasoline version. If they can keep the production costs of the hybrid drive below 2000€ (I have no idea if that is possible as I don't know how this system is constructed), it would be priced just slightly above the 1.6 gasoline... And quite a bit cheaper than the Prius is here in Europe... In Denmark, the Prius is 25% more expensive than the Golf 1.6... And it is less powerful! Ohh... And I'm sure people won't mind a small premium WHEN THEY DO EIGHTY MILES TO THE GALLON! I'd love to see a Prius do that!

1970toyotamarc - 2/21/2008 7:45:24 PM

+1 Boost

The Prius being more expensive in Denmark has more to do with supply/demand and exchange rate issues than the cost of the vehicle. So for all our problems in the US, I'll just be happy that at least a Prius comes in at a reasonable price here. I cant argue with that variable, I'm not going to even try. Once Toyota decides they want to sell Priuses en masse in Europe, the price will come down, and that argument will be moot.

The rest of your argument is just conjecture. Let's see...
"The 1.9TDI which most probably being used is actually cheaper (yes CHEAPER) than the comparable 1.6 gasoline version."
Probably, hmmm hard to tell considering this car doesnt exist, right? But a cleaner diesel engine will definitely be more expensive. The technology is not cheap.

"If they can keep the production costs of the hybrid drive below 2000€"
Yet for some reason, everyone thinks that Toyota hybrid engines are so expensive. Let's see Volkswagen come up with a reasonably priced hybrid engine on their first try.

"WHEN THEY DO EIGHTY MILES TO THE GALLON! I'd love to see a Prius do that!"
By the time (if ever) this VW concept comes out, you just may, as Toyota is about 18 months from delivering the next gen Prius.

TheSailor - 2/21/2008 8:10:42 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Ahh yes the illusive NON-EXCISTING prius again... It's all really just hear-say with that, isn't it?! I haven't seen anything official on it yet, just fanboy propaganda... At least I'm not grasping at straws... It wouldn't make any sence what so ever for VW to develop a new and expensive engine when they have a perfectly suitable one in the 1.9 TDI now would it?

As to the Prius, it isn't sold to europe in dollars (though americans seem to think everything happens in dollars) so the weak american dollar isn't really a factor here! The reason is that Toyota doesn't want to loose money on it (as they do in the US) because they know you can have a diesel for way less, even if they sliced the price by 25%!

Uhh... And if you're really into saving the planet and driving the greenest car possible, what is it you have against this thing? That it isn't a Toyota or that it makes a mockery of that silly looking Prius you drive?

chewy - 2/21/2008 9:27:40 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

your data is because diesel has more energy than gasoline, therefore it has more oil per gallon and more carbon per gallon, that's why the Europeans give you the real C02 figures, and 89 grams is LESS than 105, that's becaus the diesel engine is more fuel efficient. Get it?

TheSailor - 2/22/2008 5:52:47 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

What the hell are you talking about?! It doesn't produce any more anything as it is the same process that produces both diesel and gasoline... It doesn't produce CO2 or soot or anything... You have completely misunderstood your own post...

TheSailor - 2/22/2008 4:35:22 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

D-O Y-O-U H-A-V-E P-R-O-O-F F-O-R T-H-A-T-!-?-!

Because the citation you posted really doesn't say anything about production of diesel (and you obviously doesn't understand what you copy paste)... You start to look more and more like a broken record... Or is that a bad joke... ohh wait! BOTH!

I've disproven both, you claim I'm wrong, however, you have yet to come up with some hard facts to prove your statements. YOu just post an article saying so (without any scientific backing what so ever) and won't even listen to reason... You know what... I'm going to let this one slide... If you just bail out now, I'll let you off the hook and stop asking you to back up your statements!

TheSailor - 2/23/2008 4:16:47 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

That is just them claiming something without actually backing it up... Here read this:

"Diesel and gasoline is extracted during the same process, thus emmiting exactly the same greenhouse gasses, but are not interchangeable substances so saying that one use more oil than the other is completely incorrect!"

www.straightoutofmyass.org

Now refute that with some scientific proof!

EL34 - 2/20/2008 11:16:06 PM

-1 Boost

Another nice thing about this car is it's originality.

It doesn't ripoff Audi like Honda does ;-\

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_43LE - 2/20/2008 11:34:41 PM

+3 Boost

Another nice thing that we can count on with EL34 (and thus laugh at) is his lack of writing skills ;-\

EvoAudi - 2/20/2008 11:29:10 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

one could realisticly expect 60 MPG from this, WAY better than the priuses 35 expected MPG.

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1970toyotamarc - 2/21/2008 7:03:59 PM

-1 Boost

35...yeah keep deluding yourself

EvoAudi - 2/23/2008 11:29:32 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

ok then, you go drive a prius around california, with the A/C turned on or a window down while listening to the radio. THEN tell me you got 35mpg+

Autoegr525 - 2/20/2008 11:42:06 PM

+2 Boost

If they were smart they'd make it a stand alone model because people are going to buy it to make a statement, not because of its mileage. Honda learned this and is coming out with dedicated hybrid models.

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S4cabriofoxone - 2/20/2008 11:45:01 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Very impressive! I hope this makes production as the first US market diesel-hybrid!

VW... the new green leader?

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chris760 - 2/20/2008 11:52:27 PM

-2 Boost

now lets wait for bmw audi and mb to follow...

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Bored - 2/20/2008 11:54:35 PM

0 Boost

Gee, just the other day I said we needed diesel-hybrids. Finally, a manufacturer ready to take the next step!

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Neverfollow - 2/21/2008 9:33:28 AM

+2 Boost

Diesel Hybrids are very expensive to manufacture. Diesel technology adds about $4000 to the production cost of a vehicle and the Hybrid technology is right below that. That's a lot of money for a power train. I agree, this is the best all around, no comprimise solution, it's just expensive to do.

TheSailor - 2/21/2008 7:05:05 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

WHAT?!? $4000?!? The premium ain't even that big in Denmark with the 180% tax included! Peugeot claim they can ad hybrid drive to their cars for less than 2000€...

4000 dollars... don't be ridiculous...

Rupert - 2/22/2008 12:45:01 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Mercedes sell the 320cdi and 350 models for about the same price in Europe - and even Kia sells the Ce'd or whatever it's called diesel for the same price as the petrol.

Neverfollow - 2/29/2008 11:32:38 AM

+1 Boost

Please people. The manufacturing cost of producing a diesel VS gas engine isn't completely passed on to the buying public so you don't usually see a $4000US difference in what the MSRP of the two. Usually it's around $1500-$2000 premium at retail. These vehicles are built for entirely different reasons right now. They help the manufacturers reach certain CAFE standards in the US and other countries that have them throughout the world thus lowering fines and taxes which help offset the cost.

The general buying public is not usually privy to manufacturing costs and expenses so I was simply trying to pass along info that is usually hard to find or come by. If you don't want to believe me, no worries.

Designer1 - 2/21/2008 12:50:42 AM

-5 Boost

Thanks to Toyota all other car companies are following its foot step into advanced technologies.

Thank you Toyota, and good job VW but I'm sure Toyota being the leader will beat these numbers.

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IVANURI97 - 2/21/2008 9:01:50 AM

+2 Boost

"The Toyota Prius can easily get 90 mpg if driven properly. Fact.

Please show your proof.

S4cabriofoxone - 2/21/2008 10:15:32 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

You live in a little fantasy world, don't you?

Toyota won't be the "leader" forever. Fact.

There are seven other companies threatening to take the top spot. Fact. BMW, Metcedes-Benz, VW Group, Honda, Nissan, GM and Ford.

enthusiastx11 - 2/21/2008 10:57:53 AM

+2 Boost

"Thanks to Toyota"

WRONG. it's government policy NOT toyota that is driving diesels and hybrid development.

thank you to the European Union for implementing very stringent new emissions and MPG requirement for all EU automakers. these will take effect in the next two years.

enthusiastx11 - 2/21/2008 10:59:56 AM

+1 Boost

furthermore designer, toyota is already shooting itself in the foot with BAD HYBRID PRODUCT STRATEGY.

the three much touted lexus hybrids gets below average mileage and don't even qualify for PZEV emissions (even a standard 3-series can do that).

IVANURI97 - 2/21/2008 11:02:42 AM

+5 Boost

There is no way a Prius can get 90+mpg. I am happy to say I am wrong if you can show me where you get this fact from.

1970toyotamarc - 2/21/2008 4:03:58 PM

-1 Boost

enthusiast, i have let you get away with your PZEV rant way too many times. You apparently know nothing about PZEVs. From a pollution standpoint, there is very little difference between a PZEV and an SULEV. "In order to qualify as a PZEV, a vehicle must meet the SULEV standard and, in addition, have zero evaporative emissions from its fuel system plus an extended (15-year/150,000-mile) warranty on its emission-control components" Every mfr needs to market a certain number of PZEVS in order to do business in California and CA emissions states. BMW chose to put the PZEV on its best selling car, the base 3 (328? 330? I cant keep track). Lexus doesnt have PZEVS because of the hundreds of thousands sold by Toyota- 4 cylinders Camrys and Priuses. The PZEV and of course SULEV contribution by Toyota is exponentially greater than that by BMW, so stop trotting it out as a comparison to Lexus every time. Counting PZEVs (tho important) is only one part of the emissions equation. The fact that all the Lexus hybrids are SULEV and they have plenty other models at ULEV speaks volumes about their environmental commitment.

enthusiastx11 - 2/21/2008 7:02:15 PM

+1 Boost

toyota:

PZEV > SULEV > ULEV

therefore the BMW 3-series (PZEV like the prius) offers a better emissions rating than the lexus "hybrids" (SULEV).

it's really not a debate.

1970toyotamarc - 2/21/2008 7:36:49 PM

0 Boost

It's a straw man argument. You cannot compare the PZEVs of the 328 to the SULEVs of Lexus if you don't look at the bigger picture.

This is the same as saying that this Golf concept beats the Prius. Even if it came in at a higher mpg and lower CO2, would it be as fast, as large, as inexpensive, and emit as few smog forming pollutants? There are too many variables.

You love to break arguments down to one point and argue it like it is the only issue. I dont begrudge the 3 its PZEV rating, tho it only gets it in California. PZEVs require extra features that mfrs dont like to add to their cars because of the prohibitive cost. Thus most mfrs who offer it only do so in CA emissions states. It is generally not perceived by the consumer to be worth the cost, which is why unless mandated you generally cant buy PZEVs anywhere else. BMW only makes its CA 3 series PZEV worthy because it has to, in order to meet CA's CARB requirements.

This info is way too important to leave off the table when throwing out comments about BMW being green because they sell PZEVs. But your arguments always get lost in the details.

TheSailor - 2/21/2008 8:14:08 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Ohh come on toyotamarc... I think you've gotten in over your head now... I can argue my way out of alot aswell, but sometimes, it is better to just let it go... this is such a time!

chewy - 2/21/2008 9:32:38 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

PZEV gets rid of all evaporative emissions. Evaporative emissions are just as bad as regular tailpipe emissions. SULEV cars are already super clean from the tailpipe, but can still have evaporative emissions, PZEV results in almost no emissions.

1970toyotamarc - 2/22/2008 11:52:31 AM

0 Boost

My point is not to dismiss the PZEV technology (though it really has little technology behind it.) It would be great if all cars had it. But it needs to be put in perspective. When someone says how green BMW is because they offer one model (and only with one engine choice) as a PZEV, they are completely missing the boat. Audi is not the evil polluting monster becasue they offer no PZEVs. They offer no PZEVs because Volkswagen offers them. You need to look at the bigger picture. Sadly, arguments against hybrids, especially when compared to concept cars always get reduced to one or two points, when the beauty of the Toy/Lex hybrids is their ability to encompass a number of qualities-mpg/emissions/style/luxury/perfromance/features, with few compromises.
If you really want to see how green BMW or any mfr is, look up
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Index.do;jsessionid=82309cb802e9797d4523
These are real cars, not concepts, and it show differences for CA cars and the cars the rest of the world gets. (BTW, PZEVs sure make CA look good)

No one green technology is going to power the vehicle needs of everyone. There is room for many. I support any green technology, even diesel hybrids. What I do not support is fanboys saying how great something new is when it has yet to be tested in the real world, while simultaneously dismissing vehicles that have proven themselves to be excellent, especially when the only real rationale for their argument is that one is Euro vs the other Japanese.

TheSailor - 2/22/2008 4:43:30 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Evaporative emmisions... Isn't that basically unburned hydrocarbons!? No modern diesel emmits hydrocarbons... I guess that makes them all PZEV vehicles if they can get below the NOx threshold?!

On a more serious note, Nobody is going to by a hybrid or a diesel because it's PZEV... Most people doesn't even know what it means! It's like a salesman telling a potential buyer that a BMW-gasoline car has lower consumption due to it's piezo-electric direct fuel injection system! Most enthusiasts won't even know what that means!

teuton - 2/21/2008 3:06:53 AM

0 Boost

Ah not one those hybrid stories again! VW stick to your class leading diesel engines please!

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TheSailor - 2/21/2008 4:08:32 AMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Not to say I told you so, but, I told you so! Diesel hybrids are the only sensible hybrids! Though the Golf is quite a bit heavier than a Prius, it still manages to emmit 15% less CO2 and 27% extra to the gallon... This is where hybrids make sence!

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TheSailor - 2/21/2008 2:15:04 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Ohh... That bullshit again?! Do you even know what you are talking about? Gasoline and diesel are not the same thing and you can't use the diesel part of crude oil for gasoline without some seriously polluting reactions... So the whole "diesel use more oil than gasoline" is just wrong, because THEY USE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE CRUDE! And the emmits more greenhouse gasses is simply wrong... Diesel has a higher energy density meaning you get more BTUs pr liter, however, producing one BTU takes the same amount of carbon whether it comes from gasoline or diesel so you get the same amount of CO2 pr BTU...So though there is more carbon in diesel (pr liter), you don't emmit more CO2 pr BTU... And since the efficiency of a diesel engine is higher than in a gasoline engine (40% vs 30%), you get more of your BTUs to the wheels and less disappears as heat... Ergo, you get less CO2 emmited pr effective BTU... They probably include the NOx to scew those numbers, and since a modern diesel is constructed with filters to easily bring the cars within the norm, that is just stupid and ignorant to even start using those numbers...
I know this because this is part of my education... You just read an article that supports your argument (though faulty) and then claim that it is the only truth... Or do you have some knowledge to back your statements up?! NO?! YOU DON'T SAY...
And also, the union of concerned scientists... PHUUULEASE! That is just a group of treehuggers who will say that anything that doesn't run on water and tofu is bad! If you go through some of their articles, you can easily see their hate towards diesels... They claim that 2/3 of the soot (pm) emmited in the US is caused by diesels... They just fail to mention that most of this PM comes from TRUCKS! Which runs EXCLUSIVELY on diesel! And that cars only account for something like 3% of the total PM in the athmosphere... And that a filtered diesel will emmit far less NOx than a gasoline car is capable of since it isn't possible to filter them (the same applies for PM which makes a gasoline car up to 20 times more "PM-heavy")...

TheSailor - 2/21/2008 3:23:46 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

LOL... From Wiki...

"Capitalism and free market-advocacy groups have also criticized the UCS for its stance on environmental and other regulatory issues. The UCS has been called an "unlabeled left-wing activist group",[26] and criticized as having "policy positions that are predictably those of a far-left pressure group".[27] Brent Bozell, founder of the Media Research Center, which catalogs what it asserts is liberal media bias in the United States press, has claimed that the UCS is "a left-wing activist organization...trying to position itself as being some kind of objective, centrist, moderate, apolitical entity when it is nothing of the sort."[28]"

Left-ist group... You can't just believe whatever somebody writes about THEMSELVES! I don't care what you say... You haven't come up with a single piece of solid evidence to prove me wrong... Can you prove that you could get 25% more gasoline from the same oil? Can you prove that diesel CARS emmit more greenhouse gasses than a gasoline car? Can you?!

TheSailor - 2/21/2008 5:35:47 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Now I know that is a lie and that you just don't understand what you copy pasted above! Diesel (or gasoil to be more exact) is easier and requires less heat to extract than gasoline due to the way refineries work... Diesel and gasoline is extracted at the same time, ergo, it is the same heat that produces both substances... So it can't possibly emmit more of the dirties during refining... Try again...

JUGNU - 2/21/2008 5:01:09 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Nice Fuel economy. But what's the performance?

JUGNU

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Heyhuub - 2/21/2008 10:11:44 AM

+2 Boost

Well, seeing as the least powerfull diesel in the Golf is already allot more powerfull then the engine in the Prius i wouldn't worry about that.

enthusiastx11 - 2/21/2008 11:01:29 AM

+2 Boost

guaranteed better performance than a prius. won't have the prius' huge body roll, numb steering and lack of agility.

1970toyotamarc - 2/21/2008 7:47:15 PM

-3 Boost

guaranteed, huh? U driven one?

enthusiastx11 - 2/22/2008 2:47:24 AM

+3 Boost

you drive a prius right? a corolla looks like an M3 next to it.

have you driven a golf? they're quite a lot of fun!

bulldogz - 2/21/2008 9:36:32 AM

+3 Boost

yet, didn't MB eliminate the Blutec E-class??

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S4cabriofoxone - 2/21/2008 10:19:19 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

No, what are you talking about?

They said the opposite--all diesel Merc SEDANS sold in the US will be Bluetecs, while all SUVs will stick with the plain "CDI" due to different emissions standards.

enthusiastx11 - 2/21/2008 11:02:33 AM

+2 Boost

eliminate? NO.

they're launching 3 MORE bluetecs in the US later this year.

bulldogz - 2/21/2008 1:20:23 PM

0 Boost

just from what CNN was talking about:

http://dieselblog.net/2007/05/mercedes-benz-e320-diesel-to-be-discontinued/

TheSailor - 2/21/2008 4:19:08 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

The day after they had to admit that they had gotten their facts wrong and that the model that was being discontinued had nothing to do with the BlueTec...

1970toyotamarc - 2/21/2008 11:48:17 AM

-4 Boost

It's a CONCEPT people!!!! Near-production doesnt mean anything in the real world. The next Prius is near production, the Volt is near production, FCVs are near production.

Meanwhile the Prius still soldiers on as the cleanest, greenest, practical car out there.

I am just so sick of the Prius hating on the auto blogs. You people blow my mind.

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TheSailor - 2/21/2008 3:29:04 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

OHHHHHHH.... So now a NEAR Production car is nothing, however the purely fictional next gen prius which might do a qazzilion miles to the gallon is something we have to talk about all the time because it is a imaginative Toyota?!

I am just to tired of the nothing but toyota trolling on the auto blogs... You people blow my mind!

enthusiastx11 - 2/21/2008 7:13:52 PM

+1 Boost

toyota:

the german manufacturers typically who a car very close to the time it's fully produced. ex. X6 a few months ago, coming into production momentarily. and the golf is near-production.

of course, it's a double standard when it comes to your precious toylex. the LF-A for example has been a concept for 4 YEARS and it's not even approved for production. lol.

enthusiastx11 - 2/21/2008 7:13:55 PM

+1 Boost

toyota:

the german manufacturers typically who a car very close to the time it's fully produced. ex. X6 a few months ago, coming into production momentarily. and the golf is near-production.

of course, it's a double standard when it comes to your precious toylex. the LF-A for example has been a concept for 4 YEARS and it's not even approved for production. lol.

carguy68 - 2/21/2008 12:32:25 PM

+1 Boost

this is great but they really need to improve quality.
VW is a better looking car than any toyota will ever be but their quality needs to improve. Go VW!!!!

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Rupert - 2/21/2008 12:52:53 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Well I guess it will have the already pretty efficient 1.9 tdi enigne with about 105 hp that does 0-62 in about 11.5 seconds...plus an electric motor...I reckon 0-62 10 seconds and under? But it will be expensive of course. However the 1.9 tdi has been in production for ever, so they don't need to spend lots of money making a new engine. I expect it to be a bit less than the 170 hp diesel Golf - at least I hope so.

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TheSailor - 2/21/2008 6:37:14 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Hey... You should get one, then slap a couple of big wheels on the Lupo and call it a beach buggy... It would fit just perfectly in the trunk of the Golf! :P

Rupert - 2/22/2008 12:47:17 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

It's not THAT small!

And a beach buggy...I'll give it a straight-through exhaust, remove the roof and paint it bright green too...actually it sounds quite fun!

TheSailor - 2/22/2008 4:49:53 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

LOL... I'll bring my old "Ellert" (http://www.ellert.info/) and we'll call it a party! And yes, I have one of those... I bought it as a gimmick at a friends stag party... And now I can't get rid of the damn thing! :D The guy I bought it from must still be laughing his ass of!

Rupert - 2/22/2008 7:24:17 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Wow - even with my absolutely zero understanding of Danish, I can see that is an amazing and groundbreaking vehicle, which bears no resemblance to the failure that was the Sinclair C5. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5)
It looks very cool. :S
I'll buy it off you! Wait, I might regret that...

TheSailor - 2/22/2008 7:55:11 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

You don't understand danish?!? I don't understand... I understand English perfectly well... :D

You know what... If you get to Denmark, I'll give it to you! I'm sure you won't have to pay those pesky congestion charges in it... You will have to charge it every ten minutes though as the battery is the size of an AA-battery! Or better yet, I'm embarking the Eleonora Maersk soon, so get to Rotterdam, and I'll bring it there... I just want to get rid of it! Ohh, wait... Maybe I can bring it onboard and use it to drive around the ship... It is pretty big afterall... yeah, forget it, the deal is off!

Obliv - 2/21/2008 8:39:21 PM

+4 Boost