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How Much Horsepower Will The New IS-F Debut With?

Agent009 submitted on 07/16/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 3:04 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[77] user comments | category: Misc News

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How Much Horsepower Will The New IS-F Debut With?

As the IS-F debut draws closer Lexus has wisely chosen to keep the actual horsepower of the high performance motor a well kept secret, mentioning only a figure somewhere in excess of 400 hp.

A few months ago Car and Driver reported that the 5L V8 had made as much as 483 hp in an (at the time) IS 500 mule. In April Road & Track also ran an article about future Japanese sports cars, where it said that Toyota was developing a new Supra and Lexus IS 500. Both would be powered by the same 5 liter V-8 putting out 450 hp and 383 lb-ft of torque in the Supra and detuned slightly for the IS 500 (IS-F). So many sources seem to indicate that Lexus may lead both the RS4 and the M3 and slightly trail the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG in overall horsepower.

With this taken into consideration, Lexus also repeatedly says the car will have more than 350 lb-ft. Given that the 4.6L motor produces 367 lb-ft, it stands to reason an out and out performance motor could have substantially more hp/liter than the 4.6L motor and a slightly less torque peak that a higher horsepower peak would imply.

Now if Lexus only gets the same 82.6 hp/liter from the 5L motor that it has wrung from the LS 460's 4.6L V8, the car would then produce around 413 hp. But this seems a bit overly conservative since the RS4 and new V8 M3 are both producing similar power with less displacement. Reason would dictate that Lexus should have a similar hp/liter ratio if the engine can maintain a similar redline.

So what is the $64,000 question? How much power will the new IS-F actually have when it comes to market? Give us your answer below, and of curse feel free to comment as well.

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JRobUSC - 7/16/2007 3:14:59 PM

-2 Boost

where's the "Does it matter? Just like the IS350 it still won't win any comparison test it takes part in" bubble?

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Will_ - 7/16/2007 3:19:33 PM

+3 Boost

More importantly, where are the "It's not German so I don't give a damn" and "Lexus = POS!" bubbles?

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JRobUSC - 7/16/2007 3:29:14 PM

+4 Boost

unfortunately some folks would actually click those even though they're ridiculous statements.

M35MT - 7/16/2007 5:02:12 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

So, if you buy a Merc you're a poser? The C-Class has the *yawn* driving dynamics of a mid size family sedan. I knew before I got halfway thru this article that it would be full of comments like this.

Forget the power, handling, braking, etc.

Sex sells.

Style = Sex in the car world.

That's what matters most in sales figures. To enthusiasts, its the actual performance - therefore measuring this vehicle's "success" is subjective. I'd put my money on the M3 and RS4 to still be more exciting to drive - over the C63 as well.

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rg12345 - 7/16/2007 3:42:06 PM

-3 Boost

It's so hard to say .. just a stupid guess won't help anybody.

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BentleyGT - 7/16/2007 5:11:08 PM

0 Boost

I agree with you 100%, very well said young man.

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SupraNeverBack - 7/16/2007 3:59:43 PM

+6 Boost

I would say 431~451 limited by the gas mileage and emission targets(no gas guzzler tax and ULEV II). 431hp is the minimum because IS-F'e engine revs at least 500rpm higher than the ~410hp regular 5.0L v8.

410hpx(7000rpm/6500rpm)= 441hp

Even if the regular 5.0L v8 has only 400hp, that would be
400hpx(7000rpm/6500rpm)= 431hp

If Lexus would do something like M3's gas guzzler engine satisfying LEV II only, IS-F could easily have 480+hp.

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SevorbeupstryIsBack - 7/17/2007 5:51:53 PM

0 Boost

I'm no Toyoda fanatic, but aren't some of those engines turbocharged?

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rogue - 7/18/2007 8:50:57 PM

+2 Boost

All those engines come in a naturally aspirated and forced inducted variation.

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chewy - 7/16/2007 4:25:01 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

Probably about 420-430, like 425 or something.

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BentleyGT - 7/16/2007 4:29:07 PM

0 Boost

The IS-F is bloated and unhappy, and it wont be very good in aerodynamics either. $64,000 is alot of money for a car that simply borrowed a Toyota engine, and those silly little stacked exausts are very childish "boy racer" looking. If anybody buys this crap they must be eating crack-cocaine brownies.

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Will_ - 7/16/2007 4:35:03 PM

+4 Boost

Don't ever question a Lexus's dynamics. The LS430 I know personally is one of the most aerodynamic cars ever. We know air management will be good with those big intakes stripped down the sides, and the rest of your comment just isn't particularly noteworthy...

BentleyGT - 7/16/2007 5:04:57 PM

0 Boost

Who cares about the Lexus LS430 thats old lies, and it dosent have the lowest drag coefficient around. I am talking about the IS-F with that bulgy hood, sneekey headlights and that tall boxy looking trunk, will most likely fail with its aerodynamics.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 7/17/2007 5:41:25 PM

0 Boost

I remember the LS430 having the lowest Cx figure in its class. Still it comsumed more fuel than all of its competitors!

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Lexus - 7/16/2007 4:36:34 PM

+3 Boost

I said it will probably have between 440hp to 475 hp. I mean if it wants to play with the big boy, it better pack both power and better suspension as well.

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BentleyGT - 7/16/2007 4:46:59 PM

+2 Boost

And a better look too.

Rupert - 7/16/2007 4:36:53 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I think about 415, but I'm being quite conservative. Not above 440, I'm sure, but not below 410.

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Rupert - 7/16/2007 5:09:04 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

I want to be right :P

Lexus - 7/16/2007 4:38:53 PM

-2 Boost

It would be really crazy if the Lexus IS-F 480hp-500hp under it hood for their production models.

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BentleyGT - 7/16/2007 4:46:11 PM

+2 Boost

Yea crazy because it will never happen.

Willis - 7/16/2007 4:51:42 PM

+3 Boost

420 is my guess.

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pchera01 - 7/16/2007 5:46:59 PM

-3 Boost

no more than 410bhp

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Designer1 - 7/16/2007 6:18:24 PM

+5 Boost

I think it will be 450+. Look what the LS460 did, the competition all had 330-345 hps, unill BMW and MB came up with new models making 360 and 382 or so, then the LS came up with 380 and YET with a smaller engine.

As far as winners, Lexus is always the real winner it only gets unfair judges that try everything to downplay it.

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Willis - 7/16/2007 6:50:41 PM

-2 Boost

BMW and MB came up with new models making 360 and 382 or so, then the LS came up with 380 and YET with a smaller engine.

What does this prove? Nothing. Cadillac in the 1970s had an 8.2-l V8 which made a pathetic 195-horsepower (in part to emissions). Mercedes uses big displacement for torque - which helps acceleration and fuel efficiency. BMW has traditionally relied on smaller displacement engines because they rev-higher and fit the BMW sporty image better.

Why Toyota opted for a 4.6-l is beyond me. Maybe a 4.6-l was better suited for noise optimization levels? Who knows? Who cares?

Rupert - 7/16/2007 7:16:46 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Doesn't Audi make 350 from a 4.2? And Jag makes 400 from a 4.2...it doesn't really mean anything, any modern manufacturer can make 380 hp out of 4.6 litres...

SupraNeverBack - 7/16/2007 7:30:05 PM

0 Boost

Difference is that others don't care about FE and emission.

Rupert - 7/16/2007 7:52:55 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

How childish of you.
And of course Lexus loves the environment and flowers grow out of Lexus exhausts, and all Lexi get better fuel economy than all German cars. (Despite the fact that all Lexi are the least economical in their classes).
For every Lexus you can buy a more economical German version.

david989 - 7/17/2007 10:55:03 AM

+1 Boost

Lexus makes some of the cleanest engines ever.

07mcs - 7/17/2007 12:02:44 PM

+4 Boost

Rupert: the 400hp from the Jag 4.2 is not normally aspirated but supercharged.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 7/17/2007 5:57:23 PM

0 Boost

Did you know the S500/CL500's 5.5 litre 4-valve (no more 3-valve like to old gen.. *sad*) has been awarded because it was more friendly to the environment (a lot of recycled materials) and burnt fuel cleaner than everybody else in its class. The Toyoda Prius came in second place. This was the first award ever outhanded by the TÜV.

AdmiralT20 - 7/16/2007 7:11:35 PM

-3 Boost

I think it will be between 400-420 HP. The Torque figure will be above 350 ft.lbs in my estimate.

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johnct - 7/16/2007 10:27:08 PM

-5 Boost

Forget M3, this car is going straight for the Veryron!
1000 HP.

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EL34 - 7/16/2007 11:00:18 PM

0 Boost

I say the Lexus will have 398hp.

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Lexus - 7/17/2007 1:05:32 AM

+5 Boost

I telling you guys, Lexus will probably going to have 450hp-500hp under the Lexus IS-F. Laugh all you want now, and cry later when you get smoke on the street by IS-F. If Lexus want to sales well in this segment, they have to offer something more than it competitors.

I think it only logic that the Lexus IS-F have 450hp-500hp because the MB C63 have 457 hp, the current RS4 420 hp, and the new M3 will have 420 hp as well. And what about the next gen Audi RS4? it will probably going to have 470hp-480hp for sure. And the up and coming Cadillac CTS-V rumor to have close 500 hp.

Wow! all those cars to choose from and everyone single of them is competiting with each other for a buyers. Sweet.............

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MunichRob - 7/17/2007 1:17:42 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I'd say a HP figure of 450. This to me makes the most sense along with the assumption (However no one knows for sure I realize) being the IS-F will not be as dynamically athletic as the M3 or RS4 for that matter.

Therefore as a new entry to this segment it's totally in Lexus's nature to raise the bar by dropping a bigger engine than the ones found in it's direct competitors.

To stand out as the 'new kid on the block' Lexus needs to up the anti in order to capture the attention of long-time buyers in this segment!

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SupraNeverBack - 7/17/2007 2:50:37 PM

+2 Boost

"the IS-F will not be as dynamically athletic as the M3 or RS4 for that matter. "

How did you know that? At least all the reviews said the M3 sucks.

MrGunFun - 7/17/2007 2:18:45 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

440-450 has the most vote, I don't believe that.

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Willis - 7/17/2007 3:56:46 AM

+4 Boost

With all the Lexus fanboys here, does that really surprise you? They'll click or believe anything and deboost anyone who says something slightly negative about Lexus.

If I say: "The GS450h doesn't look good in red.", I'll be at -15 points within 3 minutes...

Rupert - 7/17/2007 7:27:10 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

It really doesn't look good in red.

SupraNeverBack - 7/17/2007 2:51:35 PM

+1 Boost

You don't believe if because you hate to see that.

AUTO_UNION - 7/17/2007 4:09:24 AM

+2 Boost

I'd say 420-440!

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Kinger - 7/17/2007 6:20:47 AM

+1 Boost

Does it matter? If it 'only' has 400hp and handles brilliantly then Lexus has a real winner on their hands. I think seeing as its a Lexus take on a high-performance saloon car that it will be very quick but probably more comfort oriented than an M3 or even an RS4.

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M53R - 7/17/2007 11:57:39 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

After some calculations I predict 413hp.

Over 490HP: Lexus Will Lead The Category

7% (24 votes)

What the.....?! We really have too many fanboys in here.....
on both sides :
Under 400 HP: Lexus Will Miss The Mark

6% (19 votes)

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JUGNU - 7/17/2007 12:47:15 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Under 400 HP: Lexus Will Miss The Mark

6% (19 votes)

We really have too many haters in here

JUGNU

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SupraNeverBack - 7/17/2007 2:49:05 PM

+4 Boost

Both ends are voted by haters. They should be discarded.

420-450hp 53% good guess.

enthusiastx11 - 7/19/2007 2:25:18 AM

0 Boost

go formula. good observation....more lexus crazies than 'haters.'

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 7/17/2007 5:47:25 PM

-2 Boost

420-430.. they're going after the M3 here.

It is not going to have 480-490 horsepower, the modifications to reach that kind of power out of 5 liters naturally aspirated are very large and Toyota and Lexus don't have any experience with the high-revving engine concept.

My idea is they took the 5 litre V8 from the LS600h, modified the ECU, different intake manifold, new exhaust, left the crankshaft for what it is and changes the valves. Considering the LS600h's V8 already produces 391 horsepower (a very nice figure, I must admit. Lexus should put this in the LS500 - no that would be too much Merc copying.) it's real easy to get 30-40 horsepower out of it.

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SupraNeverBack - 7/17/2007 8:59:51 PM

+2 Boost

To say Toyota has no high-revving engine concept is laughable.

Beside those ten years old 8000+rpm four cylinder engines, the race version of the IS-F 5.0L v8 in Rolex series Daytona Prototype is limited by 500hp @8200rpm

Not to mention the LF-A's 9000+rpm 5.0L v10.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 7/18/2007 3:24:42 AM

-1 Boost

You call that experience? You are kidding me. First Honda came out with the VTEC systems with many years later Toyota copied in their VVT-I and VVT-I with lift engines. They were weak, but reliable, 4-cylinders with around 180-190 horsepower. Under 6100 rpm the engine was lifeless and it didn't rev nowhere near as smooth as a VTEC. Besides it's only 4 cylinder, nothing hard here. Toyota had to add a supercharger to make it interesting - still nobody bought it.

Your next argument is a ... race engine? Almost every race engine has the high-revving concept and they're not suitable for road use. Look at how flat the torque curves are for the new M3 or RS4. It means you can use that engine everyday. So again, your argument is useless.

Toyota has the biggest budget of all F1 teams in the world, and how many races did they won? Not one! Not to mention the numerous technical problems they had in the beginning. And F1 is a publicity for a brand, if it performs good on the track it's good for me.

In the end that's why F1 is for, to show off all the brand's technical skills in building cars. Others do it via rally or like to build Veyrons... it's all the same.

But why are you mad? Audi doesn't really have much experience with the high-revving concept either.. they always sticked to turbocharging on their S/RS models. It's only since they sold Cosworth that they changed their philosophy. Audi however always had some experience with the 3.9, 4.0 and 4.2 V8 N/A revving close to 7200 rpm in some applications.. but it's not the same as 8000 rpm +.

Got it?

SupraNeverBack - 7/18/2007 3:46:47 PM

+3 Boost

Focus on the point, please. Typing more un-relevant words is wasting time.

enthusiastx11 - 7/18/2007 12:24:44 PM

-1 Boost

the answer to this question would only matter if they IS-F weren't so ugly. it could have 600hp, but i still wouldn't be seen in that bad aftermarket-looking corolla.

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henbmw - 7/18/2007 4:23:52 PM

-4 Boost

NONE. We will measure its power in Fag Units (FU)

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answer - 7/19/2007 12:20:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

About how many "Fag Units" did you waste in that attempt to be funny?

henbmw - 7/23/2007 1:31:10 PM

+1 Boost

Apparently -4

ThierryHenry14 - 7/18/2007 11:19:22 PM

+1 Boost

Point is, it doesnt matter what Lexus puts into the IS-F. It still will never receive the same recognition and respect that the Mercs, BMW, and Audi recieves, because its not a "cult" car with followings.

Lexus' have no soul. They are put in the market purely to compete with the German marques and to steal market shares and saturate the market. Its not like the German makes, who does it for pride and to put down their engineering from the tracks to the road. And that is why they will sell only to posers and german car haters.

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answer - 7/19/2007 12:22:56 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Nice dream world you have going on there.

Should you ever come out of it, don't be surprised to see that in the real world both German and Japanese companies can make great cars.

ThierryHenry14 - 7/19/2007 12:58:17 PM

-1 Boost

answer...

I don't deny that both make great cars. Its not about German v. Japanese. Its about this segment. Please read more carefully, or get out of your dream world, where everything has to be about German v. Japanese.

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answer - 7/19/2007 1:31:40 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Well jackass, you're going back to the same Japan = "no soul" and German = "automatically better" arguement, so I stand by my comment.

I'd be willing to bet that an engineer or test driver of an IS-F is just as passionate as their M3 counterparts are.

ThierryHenry14 - 7/20/2007 3:44:14 PM

+1 Boost

Like I said. LEXUS...LEXUS...LEXUS...I wish I could underline this. LEXUS has no soul. I said nothing about Nissan/Infiniti, Honda/Acura, Mazda, Toyota, Suzuki, Isuzu, Tomikaya, etc. I said LEXUS has no soul. So you could stand by your statement all you want, but you still have to read better because last I checked, Lexus wasn't the only thing from Japan.

PS "Jackass" assumptions make you look like a jackass, because you assume I use that arguement, when I am not.

I don't doubt that engineers are passionate. Its the consumers. You have to own a german car to know. This is my opinion!

alexdethier - 7/20/2007 12:27:24 AM

+1 Boost

Toyota makes great engines -- so do BMW (probably tops in the engineering dept), Audi (is getting better) and Mercedes (with its identity crisis since it sold to the Chrysler).
The problem with the Lexus IS is that it is for short people. Being 6'3", i find myself uncomfortably tight in that car. The two rear doors are obsolete since no one can sit in the back... unless the driver is 5'5" or shorter. Conclusion, if you buy a Lexus, you're short -- how's that for 'sex appeal' Mr. M35MT.

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Chronoseus - 7/22/2007 1:13:57 PM

+1 Boost

"Fag Units wasted" now that was funny... Anyways calculating the engine rev point, displacement, prior engines, smaller engines, i'd say about 447- 464 hp i think should hit the mark.

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