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Hummer Greener than Prius!

kpaxx submitted on 03/20/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:54 PM
from: clubs.ccsu.edu

[36] user comments | category: Misc News

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Hummer Greener than Prius!

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer. Read Article

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Lexus - 3/20/2007 3:19:02 PM

-5 Boost

Hummer H3 get 15 mpg in the city, the Hummer H2 is so freaking bad that they don't even want to list it. The Toyota Prius get 60 mpg in the city and 51 mpg on the highway. Do the math Estein, who using more fuel? Imagine the emmission that coming out of the Hummer? get the point. Why don't do everyone here a favor, find something useful to do instead of bashing Toyota.

What have Toyota done to you? what freaking Dweeb.

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TheSailor - 3/20/2007 3:25:50 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Ohh come on... It goes both ways! It's not like you are a saint when it comes to bashing! Unless you stop mocking german cars when you get the chance, then STOP telling people not to bash Toyota!

Furthermore: STOP USING DWEEB, IT'S NOT A REAL WORD! AND SPEND SOME TIME GETTING YOUR GRAMMA RIGHT!

TheSailor - 3/20/2007 3:35:26 PMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

Not everybody is blinded by a badge! I think that I have made it pretty clear that I like all present Lexus models except the bug eyed SC430, that car is simply ugly! I have even considered buying an IS when I get my next car in a few years, but because of lack of the IS350 in europe, I dropped that idea again.

I have no problem with Lexus or Toyota, but I do have a problem with, dare i say, fanatic Lexus fans that think they have some special status that allows them to bash whatever they want, but nobody is entitled to a critical opinion on Lexus/Toyota! Actually it is behavior like your own that spawn the bitter hate towards Lexus, not the cars! I don't think anybody will deny that Lexus makes good cars, but the badge doesn't make it the class leader by default! If you can get as far as to acknowledge that, you've come a long way!

Will_ - 3/20/2007 3:49:17 PM

+6 Boost

TheSailor, BlueVision, and everyone else who is about to respond,

Do you think you are going to change his beliefs by furiously commenting back at him? Spare yourself some grief and stop responding!

AUTO_UNION - 3/20/2007 3:19:18 PM

+1 Boost

Unbelievable!

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TheSailor - 3/20/2007 3:20:22 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

This is pretty old news and have already been exposed as a hoax, or at least wrong... Stupid article! The Prius could have been made of pure plutonium and still be greener than the Hummer! The Hummer has a 6,5 liter diesel engine for gods sake!

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TheSailor - 3/20/2007 3:21:48 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/05/oh-so-a-hummer-is-not-greener-a-prius

Will_ - 3/20/2007 3:25:46 PM

+5 Boost

"Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius."

This article is fine once you realize that it's mainly attacking the build/assembly processes of hybrid batteries. But even then, this article makes many assumptions and exaggerations about nickel mining and refining.

Here's where you can learn about NiMH batteries:
http://www.nickelinstitute.org/index.cfm/ci_id/12764.htm

What will be interesting is the watchdog action that goes on when all of the automotive industry switches to lithium-ion batteries within a couple years...

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TheSailor - 3/20/2007 3:59:31 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

The main issue that hybrids face has nothing to do with technological limitations but the simple fact that it is new technology and as the conservative fools we are, we fear all that is new! I think the hybrid concept is brilliant, there is room for improvement, but is a very good concept!

Add some lightweight lithium ion batteries and a diesel engine to the hybrid concept and it will have an unbeatable engine when it comes to economy! And the lower weight might also mean that they can be serious contenders when it comes to handling!

Will_ - 3/20/2007 4:07:41 PM

+3 Boost

Trust me, as the industry realizes where hybrid technology can go, we will see things like diesel-hybrids come to life. One of the major factors hindering area for improvement, specifically, is controlling the premium costs of diesel and hybrid when the two are combined.

Of course hybrids are a great concept. Having a car run on electric power even for some of the time has proven to drastically improve fuel economy and emissions. This is partly why I do not understand the very negative attitudes and opinions surrounding hybrids. Of course taking the hybrid idea to the next level are fully electric vehicles. There was an article about the Tesla posted yesterday, I think. That vehicle should also be commended.

TheSailor - 3/20/2007 4:18:04 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Nahh... Fully electric vehicles have to many issues to be fecible! You need to have an easy to recharge compact power supply... Such as gasoline! And electric batteries aren't nearly pratical enough and there is nothing to do about it! Batteries will always need recharging at some point and that can't be done in minutes as you can with a liquid fuel! Just imagine how annoying it would be to have to pull over for 30-45 minutes to recharge your batteries every few hundred miles!? Fully electric cars are not the future! Hybrids and fuel cell cars are!

Will_ - 3/20/2007 4:35:43 PM

+2 Boost

Have you heard of the Chevy Volt concept that was at NAIAS? 40 miles without a drop of gasoline or a recharge needed. And of course I don't have to tell anyone about the immense power potential electric vehicles have (Again, the Tesla). Also, particularly the Volt concept can be easily configured to run on not only electricity, but your standard gas, biodiesel and ethanol. Electric vehicles are getting there...

TheSailor - 3/20/2007 4:47:51 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Well... It does have an fuel engine to back up the electric system... Which is exactly what i mean. You still have an easy to replenish fuel source, which electricity is not! The whole point is that unless you have a back up system, an electric car will be extremely unpractical! They will be limited to city cruisers and gimmicks such as the Tesla! It is a fantastic toy, but you can't use it as an every day car.

EL34 - 3/20/2007 4:19:53 PM

-1 Boost

I posted this story a week ago.

What a strange world we live in.

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1970toyotamarc - 3/20/2007 4:51:58 PM

+4 Boost

I cant even believe I am going to comment on this. The fact that Autospies let this through is infuriating.

THIS IS AN OLD STORY THAT HAS BEEN THOROUGHLY DEBUNKED ON MANY OCCASIONS!!!

I am so over the ridiculousness on this site. The hatred for anything Toy/Lex/hybrid is so out of hand that idiotic Pro-Toy/Lex/Hybrid posters (or posers) are posting nonsense with the obvious goal to bring out more hatred and flaming. It's so out of hand on both sides that it makes it painful to read not only the comments, but even the articles. I have come to believe that many of the supporters on each side are fakers trying to bring down that which they are supposedly supporting. It happens in politics all the time.

Now back to the topic at hand. As I and many others have stated on numerous occasions, a Prius is greener than a Hummer because....
Most of the pollution of a vehicle occurs during the operation (not construction) process, and during this phase the Prius is by far the greenest mass produced car on the planet.
Nickel production is currently not ecologically unsound, and the factories that Toyota buys from have cleaned up their act in the past 20 years.
Priuses last as long or longer than any full size GM SUV.
Not one battery has expired yet, and those that eventually do are fully recyclable.
The Prius platform and technology is begin shared among many vehicles, thus spreading its cost around.

If there are any other myths that need to be shattered, ONCE AGAIN, then I frankly do not have the time or energy to do so.

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Lexus - 3/20/2007 5:00:01 PM

-1 Boost

It a slang I pickup while growing up in Hawaii, so get use to it.

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THESCOOTER - 3/20/2007 5:15:10 PM

-3 Boost

What someone should really ask is what is going to happen to all those non-recycleable batteries when they expire following the warranty period? At 100,000 Prius' per year that's a boat load of landfill. Maybe they'll use H2's to tow the trailers to the dump site's in your local area?

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Will_ - 3/20/2007 5:53:06 PM

+4 Boost

They're recyclable.

Lexus - 3/20/2007 5:22:04 PM

-2 Boost

When the Hummer is on the greeniest of environment list than we talk, till than, don't waste everyone time.

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chewy - 3/20/2007 6:17:05 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

People, please read the article. Please read the article. While I think it makes some assumptions, the fact is that it takes more energy/pollution to build the Prius when compared to many other vehicles. Again, please read the article. It only takes a minute of your time but you can help feed the starving... (oops, but you can sound less silly if you read the article)

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chewy - 3/20/2007 6:20:30 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

The incorrect assumption (IMO) is that the Hummer is on the road 3 times longer. I doubt that most owners will put 300,000 miles on their Hummer. Sure it might reach 300,000 miles before it is scrapped, but so can the Prius. Of course it will need a battery replacement, but they have seemed to last more than originally predicted. But I agree with the other part of the article that says that building the Prius is more polluting/energy using than many other vehicles.

1970toyotamarc - 3/20/2007 6:54:47 PM

+1 Boost

Chewy that part of the argument is also untrue on 2 counts.

First, the premise is that since the Hummer is based on another platform, it is less environmentally costly to build it. Well, in answer to this, the technology, engine and other components required to build a Prius are utilized or shared by many other Toy/Lex vehicles. This is similar to most vehicles today. You and other German fans love to point out how Japanese mfrs share platforms and components, but in this case the component sharing makes environmental sense. You cant have the argument both ways. Either each car gets its own platform and exclusive components for the sake of originality, or they share components to save money, time and (apparently according to CNW) the environment. The Prius has some of each, as does the Hummer. So this argument is a ruse.

Second, most of the environmental effects of a vehicle occur during the driving phase, not the construction. During this time, the Prius excels. Therefore, even if there were some environmental degradation caused by the development of a whole new exclusive vehicle (which very few vehicles would qualify as) that would be quickly made up during the driving life of the environmentally friendly vehicle. Again, a win for Prius.

(I feel like I have already made these and other points till I was blue in the face. I know it is an exercise in futility with some of you, but hopefully a few people can see through the anti-hybrid agenda of this absurd articel and its defenders. If you dont believe me, so some research.)

And can we please, as Susan Powter used to say, STOP THE INSANITY!!!

huu76 - 3/20/2007 9:21:58 PM

+1 Boost

Hey, it's CNW again. What is this, the 4th time this article has been on here?

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huu76 - 3/20/2007 9:24:13 PM

+3 Boost

I can fudge the numbers really easy, I don't expect the Hummer to make it to 100,000 miles. Oh oh, now the costs suddenly go up to nearly $6 a mile.

On the other hand, I expect the Prius to last atleast 150,000 miles, now it's nicer $2 and change per mile.

Losers can't even smear properly.

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S4cabriofoxone - 3/20/2007 10:13:30 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Haven't we all realized that Lexusmaniac is just a mockery of the real Lexus fans?

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ellives - 3/22/2007 10:19:12 PM

+1 Boost

LMAO - I loved that article. Let the tree huggers walk.

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XYZZ - 3/23/2007 3:00:34 AM

+1 Boost

guys, the article is in a COLLEGE NEWSPAPER.

you give it credence as if it were in the NY Times. it was written by a WANNABE CUB reporter, working up a frenzy over a mere factoid.

is it toyota's fault the MINING COMPANY is a gross polluter? what about LEAD mines? lead is FAR more toxic than nickel. are you willing to GIVE UP the LEAD-acid batteries in your cars and trucks? get them started by push starting only?

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megansprius - 3/27/2007 5:00:40 PM

+1 Boost

The original article is an opinion piece for a small college newspaper. The whole article is garbage.
1. Take the "spitting distance" mileage, for example. The new EPA combined mileage put the Chevy Aveo at 26 mpg, the Toyota Prius at 46 mpg. So I guess 20 miles more per gallon is "spitting distance."
2. The "Dust-to-dust" study is from a marketing firm, not a science journal. It arrives at an artificially high cost for the Prius by assigning it an arbitrary lifespan of 100k miles, and a Hummer 300k miles. There's Prius being used as cabs that have 200k on them now: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8839690/
And, insofar as a car lasting, what car do you expect to repair less? A Toyota Prius or a GM Hummer? You can check Consumer Reports for the answer to that one. A good analysis of the flaws in dust-to-dust is available at:
http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=48
3. The Sudbury info is seriously outdated, and the comment about moon buggies (like, when did Nasa test moon buggies — early 1970’s) ought to have given the author a clue. Sudbury was polluted by a century of mining (1870 on). In fact, some of Sudbury’s nickel went into making the Statue of Liberty. Currently, the mine is owned by INCO (not Toyota), and produces 100,000 tons of nickel a year, of which Toyota buys 1% (1000 tons). Nickel, by the way, is primarily used to make stainless steel. The Mail on Sunday newspaper, which ran the story the college article is a thin re-write of (visible here http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=1770 ), used a stock photo from 1994 to illustrate the pollution (visible here http://www.photoboy.com/bin/Cklb?vmo=1173985067754 ). There were, of course, no Prius in existence or being manufactured in 1994.

Sudbury is no longer as polluted, as INCO and the city have planted over 8 million trees there since 1979. The best history online of the Sudbury devastation/reforestation comes from GM Canada (the trees were all cut down in 1871 to help rebuild Chicago after the fire), and it provides telling photos of some of the reclamation from 1979 to present.
http://www.gmcanada.com/inm/gmcanada/english/about/MissionGreen/Daily/Sep22.html

The acid rain problem David Martin of Greenpeace is talking about in is the situation pre 1972. INCO on regreening and SO2 emissions
http://www.inco.com/development/community/profiles/sudbury/default.aspx

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silent_power - 4/28/2007 2:33:25 PM

+1 Boost

Eyeopening...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/25/AR2007042502561.html

Read also those contradictory articles posted on same site...
http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=751&fArticleId=3528666

And the refutation of CNW study
http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3532239&fSectionId=751&fSetId=381

Same story. Slandering Toyota hybrids.

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norak - 6/26/2007 6:59:58 AM

+1 Boost

The Prius damaged the environment more than the Hummer if the Prius lasts for only 100,000 miles and the Hummer lasts for 300,000 miles, which were the assumptions in that study. The Prius has been around for about ten years now and Toyota has changed no batteries yet other than changing batteries on cars that have been in collisions. In Canada there is a confirmed report of a taxi driver who clocked up 250,000 miles on his Prius. It's very strange how CNW Marketing Research assumes that the Prius only lasts for 100,000 miles and then someone goes ahead and clocks over two times the milage. CNW Marketing Research have been queried about how they derived their conclusion that the Prius lasts for only 100,000 miles, but they have refused to reply.

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