57 Votes

Hyundai Pushes Upscale Towards Lexus

Agent009 submitted on 9/7/2007 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 3:33:59 PM

130 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: www.autonews.com

Hyundai is serious about proving that it is more than an entry-level brand with cheap prices.

Its new advertising agency has created a slew of print ads and TV spots that Hyundai Motor America hopes will change that perception and get consumers to think differently about the company.

The first phase of the two-part "Think about it" campaign launches Monday, Sept. 10. It features teaser spots that don't mention Hyundai by name. The thinkaboutit.com Web address in the spots links to Hyundai's Web site.

The campaign's second phase includes the Hyundai name. It focuses more on Hyundai's vehicle quality and warranty coverage than on individual cars and trucks.

The campaign is the first major work for Hyundai by the Goodby, Silverstein & Partners agency since it replaced the Richards Group last spring. The agency change came as Hyundai sought to move its model line upmarket.

Hyundai did not disclose the cost of the campaign.

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User Comments

I think this type of advertising is better when u already have or ready with the product/products.

Until then it's just a talk.

Hyundai what is your competitor for(or coming soon)
IS/IS-F
GS
LS
LX
GX

hyundai is hardly coming with Lexus ES rival(Genises) and they r looking to completly rival a well established brand(Lexus).
Very tough.

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 4:07:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -9

The Hyundai line up is lacking the breadth to Lexus as Lexus does to Mercedes.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 4:13:51 PM | | Votes: 2

Do all the people from Lexusville have the day off today? Too many articles related to Lexus and WAY too many people spreading the propaganda of Lexus. Do y'all have like secret handshakes and secret decoder rings?
— rocker (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 4:28:25 PM | | Votes: 8

"And Lexus will never outsell BMW and Mercedes Benz in the US" (circa 1990)
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 5:12:08 PM | | Votes: 7

Simply put, what Lexus achieved in its life time NO car manufacturer did in history.

Lexus is truly superior to all of its competitors, it lacks the sporty feeling, but that's their recipe. MB and BMW are just names on rusty plates. They're horrible cars and even the Europeans would tell you that.

No one can match Lexus's craftsmanship!

— Designer1 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 6:22:36 PM | | Votes: -15

I forgot to comment on this car. I think Hyundai is moving up and someday it will get to where Toyota is today. Good job Hyundai!

If this car is a rear wheel drive, I wouldn't mind driving it, and still pay half the price for other brands.
— Designer1 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 6:24:19 PM | | Votes: -4

wow designer.
that's a hateful point of view.

bmw and mercedes make some wonderful cars. that's why they outsell lexus by more than 3 to 1. EACH.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 7:11:44 PM | | Votes: 5

The coming Hyundai genesis is on my shopping list. It has a powerful DOHC V-8 and RWD with LSD. It will be better than the Lexus LS, at least in value.
— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 8:21:16 PM | | Votes: 3

furthermore, we don't even know if the lexus brand even makes money. toyota does not disclose those financials. in fact, with the massive amount they spend on marketing, profits may not be that generous (for corporate that is..of course dealers make money).
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 3:04:42 PM | | Votes: 1

It's still JUST a Hyundai
— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 6:16:44 PM | | Votes: 1

If Toyota can do it, so can Hyundai!
— SixxFive (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 4:12:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9

You realize that in your own mind you think you are making good points, but alas you are not.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 5:53:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

low coefficient of drag.
that's what i'm looking for in a car!
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 7:12:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

enthusiastx11...by a Toyota Prius then; their coef is lower than a corvette.
— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 9:45:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Yes, that's all that matters in a design, right.

Most Ferrari models have worse coefficients of drag than a Prius. Do I care?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 12:15:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

That will be a tough road. Remember the Amati ? That was supposed to be Mazda's premium brand (known as the Xedos line in Europe). They even developed the Millenia, a vehicle with the sex appeal of a Miller cycle engine, all the toys as std eqpt - still a flop.

Nissan is still trying to catch up the w/the near luxo market by life supporting Infiniti, while Honda has clearly given up (much to my regret) with the last Acura RL. While Caddy made a semi-comeback to a runnerup position, Lincoln is set to die slowly.

Toyota is making an excellent push with the Lexus Hybrid line, but I wonder what will happen when this fad goes away along with the aging Rx.

Jaguar is losing $800,000,000 a year, or subsidizing each of its cars manufactured and sold on average by $63,000...

Volkswagen spends $9,3M on each Bugatti Veyrons they sell for $1,6M; while parent company Porsche lost about $135,000 on every Carrera GTs sold.

Hyundai, best of luck - you may underestimate the road ahead.
— JWalkerLegrande (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 5:10:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Very very nice, astute post.
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 12:19:27 AM | | Votes: 0

1. Infiniti is certainly not on life support. They are making excellent new products and are on par with Lexus as a potential global player.

2. You don't think the RX350 will be redesigned? I'm pretty sure the new model will be at the auto show next year- and if Toyota has its way (which it does), there will definitely be a hybrid version, fad or not. I don't advocate hybrids but whatever.

3. If you think the new Jags are still bad then you're just ignorant, in the rawest sense of the word. The XJ is an underestimated luxo sedan that has superb handling as well as impressive gas mileage. I saw a 2007 model today (the best year- not the one we have now, with the bodykit), and it still looks gorgeous. Then there are the XK and XF, which I don't have to explain.

4. VW makes a ton of money with Audi, so the point about the extremely low-production Veyron is irrelevant.

5. So Porsche lost money on the Carrera GT; that doesn't stop them from making the most profit per vehicle in the entire auto industry.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 12:20:34 AM | | Votes: -1

Does anyone remember the Oldsmobile Aurora, GM's last noble attempt to take on Lexus. Same strategy, no mention of Olds on the car at all. How's Olds doin right now?

How many more of these articles will there be???? I'm trying to be on vacation in NYC, away from all this nonsense, but Anti-ToyotaSpies keeps sucking me back in. I have to add some voice of reason to this mayhem. BTW seeing lots of new LSs and S-Classes in the city.
— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 5:30:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

trust me. Compared to Los Angeles, New York has very little LSs and S-classes. I see one every 5 minutes.It kinda sucks because no matter what car you have, it'll look cheap because of all the Astons and Ferarris I see on a daily basis.
— bokuchin (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 7:42:59 PM | | Votes: 1

More baloney. Hyundai is cutting there sales target for both the U.S. and China, (even though they sell inexpensive cars) yet we are supposed to believe they will
eventually compete with BMW and Lexus. Please
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 5:36:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Sounds like a bit of a troll-ish post, which is unexpected. Do not underestimate them. You are taking on the "prestige" view that you so vehemently fight with the German trolls.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 12:22:52 AM | | Votes: 1

..only time will tell.
— tecnopolis (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 6:16:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

hey kids.

it's the same model lexus used to great success...
imitate the competitor one rung up from you at a greatly reduced price.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 7:13:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

This would be true if they could make cars anywhere close to BMW, Lexus or Mercedes. But, as any rational thinking car enthusiast knows, this just is not true.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 7:32:26 PM | | Votes: -3

hyundai's not trying to make a world-class performance luxury car. just a really quiet, reliable, comfortable sedan. (i.e. a lexus)
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 8:18:17 PM | | Votes: 1

And you know that it will be really quiet, comfortable and reliable how?
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 10:33:16 PM | | Votes: -4

BECAUSE LOOK AT THE HYUNDAI AZERA.

It's quiet, comfortable and reliable! A Toyota Avalon, but better-looking and cheaper!

You are just blind at this point. If you can't see how similar this is to Lexus's 1990 position then you don't deserve my time.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 12:24:14 AM | | Votes: 2

If you consider the Azera a really quiet, comfortable, reliable car then I have mis-judged your your knowledge of automobiles.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 9:38:34 AM | | Votes: -6

As have I. Are you ignorant or just scared? The Azera is just as good as the Avalon. I'm no Hyundai lover, but I know to give respect when respect is due.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 1:23:27 PM | | Votes: 2

Hyundai still might want to invest in a seperate dealership network, if they want to avoid a Phaeton-esque disaster.
— LuxuryFan (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 7:32:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

They are nowhere near having a seperate dealership network established. They are still struggling to sell what vehicles they produce now.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 7:35:51 PM | | Votes: -1

Hyundai won't be competing with Lexus. In order to compete, you have to have a price close enough to the competition, not several thousand less. This way, they're competing with themselves. Eventually, people will buy the Genesis instead of the Azera because they are supposedly very similar in price. Hyundai doesn't gain the luxury car name and eliminates one of their own cars in the process. If they wanted to be Lexus so bad, the Genesis would be $50k instead of, what was it, $30k?
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 7:54:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Oh, and I know this article didn't mention the Genesis, but that's the car that supposedly will lead them into the luxury market so I used it for my example.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 7:56:47 PM | | Votes: -4

so how do explain the original LS400 priced at $35,000 while the 560SEL was priced at $65,000 that year?
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 8:19:51 PM | | Votes: 3

The original LS400 was never priced to go after a top of the line Mercedes, but the entry level one.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 10:36:15 PM | | Votes: -2

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/HyundaiAzera/Images/Dash-md.jpg

This is what the nicest Hyundai looks like right now.

Impressed?

I know that I am not.

However, I will not be surprised if this new Genesis blows our minds in respect to how capable Hyundai is of making a proper luxury car.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 11:49:35 PM | | Votes: 3

enthusiastx11-

I believe the LS was originally designed to compete with the lower class Mercedes, which was something like $8,000 more than the LS.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 11:58:30 PM | | Votes: -4

Nope, the LS was S-Class sized and powered, even literally fabricating the car's chassis. THEY WERE COMPARED.

You guys are so two-faced. I get a kick out of it.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 12:25:38 AM | | Votes: 4

Your lack of knowledge on this is surprising S4. The LS was targeted at the lower
end of the full-sized Mercedes, not the high-end. Using your logic, the Hyundai Genesis at under $ 40,000 is targeting the over $100,000 Lexus LS600hl, or
Merecdes S600.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 9:45:13 AM | | Votes: -4

Regardless of which Mercedes the LS was originally compared to, I still think Hyundai CANNOT compete with Lexus. If Hyundai wants to compete with Toyota, fine. If Hyundai wants to compete with Honda, good luck, but okay. If Hyundai wants to compete with Nissan, sure, whatever. It's when a non-luxury name, known over half of it's time on the road for making cheap cars that only go a few miles, starts to compare itself to luxury cars is when I get mad. I hope everyone is aware that once they compare themselves to Lexus, they'll also compare themselves to Mercedes, Audi, and heck, they've already compared themselves to BMW.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 11:59:55 AM | | Votes: -5

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bK_1cUy_97Y

http://youtube.com/watch?v=luvJfDnBMiY
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 12:03:51 PM | | Votes: -1

999:

you are mistaken. lexus aimed the first LS400 squarely at the 7-series and S-class. in fact, they even launched the car in germany and gave journalists one of each car to drive. they even bragged about buying S-classes, taking them apart and 'making them better.'
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 3:08:17 PM | | Votes: 4

So should I expect P Diddy to be hanging Hyundai hood ornaments around his neck any time soon?

I think not.

Hyundai will stay an "underdog brand" to Lexus like Lexus is, and will remain, to Mercedes, regardless of how great any of these cars are.

And they will sell a lot of cars!
— indoctrin8ed (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 8:32:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Hyundai might just be the next Lexus.
— Auto_expert (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 9:33:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Looks like.
— Star (View Profile)

Posted on 9/7/2007 10:42:55 PM | | Votes: -3

It's funny watching all the anti-Lexus people put full faith and support into Hyundai. Anyone who topples the mighty Lexus, right? Hates Lexus to death, supports Hyundai to the max. Oh and by the way, if Hyundai's the new Lexus, that's even more bad news for the Germans...
— Anthony (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 1:29:09 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

I'm still pushing my wife to drive the LS460L.

We saw a white one in a lot at the mall today, which has a particularly attractive pearl finish. I said:

Me: "Wow, that's a nice color. Doesn't it look good?"

Her: "Yeah, it looks very nice."

Me: "Will you drive it?"

Her: "No."

Me: "You're afraid you'll like it."

Her: "I'm sure I would like it. I just don't want a Lexus."

I continue to be confused.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 1:31:59 AM | | Votes: 5

Likewise, I continue to be confused as to why you think anyone cares about your wife's opinion. Is it even worth a comment? I don't care that your wife doesn't like Lexus anymore. What argument are you trying to cook up now? I guess I'm just curious as to why you responded to MY comment out of all of them with this?
— Anthony (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 2:40:25 AM | | Votes: 3

Your right Anthony. I thought I heard the last of it when S4 kept telling us that his wife had decided on the Mercedes S-Class as their next ride.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 9:49:19 AM | | Votes: 0

She represents the avg luxury car buyer. She cares too much about the badge, although recognizes when a car truly fits her needs.

I'm not going to push her for the LS because I'd rather she got a BMW or Audi anyway, so you're wrong, RICEMASTER. BTW, I'm the bacon-bringer in this household.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 1:27:06 PM | | Votes: 1

Hyundai isn’t trying to be the next Lexus. Folks, what they are trying to achieve is the same level of respect and admiration their Japanese counterparts get. By this I mean Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Etc. I understand that they are not there yet so I don’t want to hear pitches about which Japanese company is better. Once Hyundai perfects their product and produces top grade everyday family cars, then and only then will they take a real stab at going after Lexus. Ultimately, Hyundai has modeled themselves after Toyota and wants to follow in their footsteps. Not bad if you ask me.
— Airliner (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 3:01:04 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

Airliner- Good post. Hyundai Azera I own is fine car. After looking at these spy interior shots of the 2008 Genesis I was pretty impressed given the horrible detail of photos:
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2008/Hyundai/100626192/2008.hyundai.equus.20027604-E.jpg
from passenger side:
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2008/Hyundai/100626192/2008.hyundai.equus.20027605-E.jpg

Hyundai is going to pull the rabbit out of the hat with this car. In hope to amaze the doubtful crowd...
— spoolenturbo (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 3:58:06 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

If they come to the show with that interior, they will get laughed at. Having said that, that is not the interior for the Genesis.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 10:37:30 AM | | Votes: 1

Lexus aren't seen as particularly prestigious over here in Europe anyway. So if i was able to have a better, at least exterior desinged car, and infact the design of the interior will probably be on par as well, if not better (never a fan of Lexus layouts. As well as saving a few £££ in the process, i'd be inclined to go for the Hyundai.
— Czelinski (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 6:31:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Yea, sure you would Czelinski. I bet that giving-up your love of German
vehicles (as judged by your posts on Autospies) for a Korean car, will be very simple for you.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 9:58:09 AM | | Votes: 2

If it means digging at Lexus, of course he will.

Your enemies' enemy is you friend, right?
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 10:39:00 AM | | Votes: 1

Well, i wouldn't give up my love of German cars. If i was forced to go Asian, then i would choose the Hyundai over the Lexus.
— Czelinski (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 10:01:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

You are a mental case.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 11:09:33 AM | | Votes: 1

WHY IS YOUR NAME HYUNDAI?!???!?!?!

I continue to be confused.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 1:25:44 PM | | Votes: 1

That's the point. It's all in the badge, huh? How about the substance, the thing people really buy cars for?

I was a die-hard Ford hater until I saw their Euro line-up. After that, I realized that I can't hate any brands, realistically. You have to look at a car based on things that actually exist (in my book, that also includes things such as emotional reaction/response).

But really, what does it matter if my name is Hyundai. Don't my posts matter more?
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2007 1:28:33 AM | | Votes: 2

And S4, in all the years that I have been a poster here at autospies, I have NEVER seen you use "LOL!" as much as you have recently. In fact, I don't ever remember you using "LOL" ever in several years. Now you use it frequently. Was your brain hijacked by the non-stop ridiculousness of these boards?
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2007 1:31:30 AM | | Votes: 1

Why not? The only Lexus i can admit to liking even slightly is the IS. And even then the rear end is rather ugly. If the Hyundai was to look like it does in the images, then i would choose it over a Lexus providing it had almost, if not as good ride comfort and enough equipment, which of course i'm pretty sure it will have.
— Czelinski (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 12:31:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

I think most importantly is the way Hyundai approaches the market - they have a chip on their shoulder that makes them very intimidating in terms of the way they are willing to do business. They have been gradually bringing vehicles to market that are great iterations of what others have had sucess with (Sonata - Accord)(Azera - Avalon). This is not rocket science and is exactly the Toyota has operated historically to develop their leadership in key segments (Camry - Taurus)(LS - S-Class). Toyota was more methodical in their approach while Hyndai continues to push more aggressively. Hyundai should be expected to threaten the Big 3, which is not their goal, but ultimately be considered at parity with Honda & Toyota who are importantly their cultural rivals. Moving Hyundai upscale wil be the first step, and I personally think that they will pursue a differentiated luxury brand in the next 5-10 years - hey the formula seems to work, why not adopt it right?
— THESCOOTER (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 2:23:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

When I was selling Porsche and Audi in the eighties and early nineties I used to say the same thing,German cars have soul.That's a bunch of crap.Not all german cars drive better than the sum of their parts anymore.Some still do like the 3 series and a few other BMW's,most Mercedes don't.Some Audi's do,and all porsches do.Hyundai knows it won't take sales from Lexus.Their smart to position themselves against them but they want a piece of Toyota's and Honda's pie.
— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 2:24:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Are you nuts?
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 12:11:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

this will never work while they keep the name hyundai.

things wrong with genesis being connected to Hyunadi include:

the name hyundai is awful and doesnt flow or sound classy

the genesis cannot be built in the same plant as their econobox cars.

its korean...enough said

and as long as its built in america, it wont have that foreign finesse.
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 7:46:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

Maybe you should gain some maturity.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 8:30:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

After Hyundai concours Lexus they will next go after Buick ;)
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/8/2007 9:00:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

you probably wanna take some lessons in the marketing field, because large corporations take a lot of time finding a name that will flow and make customers feel confident in what they bought.
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 12:33:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Where are they making better cars? If that were true, than they would be outselling Toyota and everybody else since their cars are less expensive. However, as already pointed out in a press release, Hyundai is lowering their sales
outlook for both the U.S.an d China due to the lack of sales.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 12:16:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

You should know that it's about image. They do a lot of advertising, but not much of the general American car-buying public holds Hyundai in the same regard as Toyota, Honda or Ford. It takes more than five years for a high-volume company like Hyundai to do a complete 180.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 1:30:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Here is a lesson for you...

"toyota became #1 not because of their name

"because they made better cars!!!!!!!! "

actually, they came up with a BETTER NAME as well!

the founder's name was Toyoda. he was advised that Toyota would be more commercially successful.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 8:24:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

"and guess what hyundai is doing....

"DUH!!!!!!!!!

"making better cars!"

LOL!!!!

indeed they are! to the extent they are MAKING BETTER CARS than both detroit and ALL THE EURO BRANDS TOO!!!

with respect to RELIABILITY.

as for Magic Feel, well that will come with time. after all, it's also just a matter of time before Infiniti and Lexus match or better their versions of Magic Feel too. just as the japanese motorcycle makers have matched and bettered the world's best in bike handling. (to say nothing of ENGINE designs and output!)
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 8:30:30 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

You have no idea what you're talking about. "Time" doesn't make a car better. Engineering excellence does. And BMW is better at this than anyone else.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 1:28:08 PM | | Votes: 2

"until i realised Lexus makes better cars. "

we've converted one of them. lol
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 4:53:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Nicad,

You're statements are idiotic and biased. Offer some proof before you claim Lexus makes better cars. Better in what? Here in Europe, the IS220d and IS250 perform poorly in comparison tests, and this has nothing to do with "bias". The IS220d has a Toyota Avensis sourced diesel engine which lacks refinement, is slow and has poor fuel economy compared to its German competitors. The IS250d is fuel inefficient and slow to respond to driver input. The E-Klasse, A6 and 5er have won every comparison test against the Lexus GS. The Lexus GS has average comfort, poor handling, cramped interior andv virtually no trunk, especially the hybrid version (which performed poorly in European style driving tests [Rural-Urban-Total]). The only Lexus which is really challenging is the LS. The SC430, RX330 and RX400h are outclassed by their European rivals. I don't see how Lexus builds "better cars". Lexus might have better overall reliability currently, but the German cars are catching up in this regard. As an engineer at Mercedes-Benz in Munich I can tell you that the newer Mercedes-Benz cars are extremely reliable and built like they were in the older days: solid. Lexus builds "better cars"? Show some evidence.

Lexus cars in my opinion are successful because of marketing. They have no heritage to brag about, so they dazzle consumers with technology - most of which you don't need. Our market research has shown that the European consumer is not impressed with this. In Europe, consumers want to decide what goes into their cars and what doesn't. With Lexus this is not possible and Lexus are not cheap in Europe. In some cases they even reach the price levels of their European competitors. And they don't offer some basic features that are expected in this class, believe it or not.
— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 6:49:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

One more thing, Nicad.

You claim that the "Germans can't copy the luxury of Lexus". I've got news for you.

I've told you that I am an engineer at Mercedes-Benz in Munich. Some of my duties require me to go to Bad Cannstatt where we have a testing facility to examine competitor cars. I can't mention further details but let's just say that when we examined the Lexus LS, we found a lot of technology onboard who's wiring and electronic functions were pretty much identical copies to what we implant in our W221 S-Klasse. Essentially it is Lexus that is copying patented technology from the Germans. We have an exclusive contract with Bosch for a specific electronic system that is delivered to us solely for the W221 S-Klasse. I can't say more, but the LS uses an exact COPY of this product. The only manufacturing mark we found on it was the Lexus symbol. This Bosch product has been on the market for precisely two years, before the current LS debuted and due to our excellent relationship with Bosch we know that they supply this only to us - not Lexus, not anyone.

Tell me how Lexus got hold of this, will you?

Also, what luxury does Lexus offer that is so great? You sound like a "Hans Wurst"...
— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 6:56:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

"Lexus became famous because they made super reliable high quality smooth luxury cars"
"nicad"

Lexus became famous(in America only) because it kissed a lot of American customer ass. Their cars are years behind in technology compared with the real luxury brands like Mercedes or BMW but their powerful marketing machine successfully brainwashed the gullible American car buyer into believing that Lexus is a competitor for real luxury brands. There is absolutely nothing special about Lexus other than the difference in approaching the car sales business. While the other manufacturers are trying to make better cars, Lexus concentrates on creating a false image of their inferior product by offering the VIP treatment (reserved normally for real high class vehicles) to push their mediocre product. Is it working...yes it does and that's because most of the buyers are far from being car connesseurs. Luckily for the rest of us who know a thing or two about cars there are still brands like Mercedes or BMW to lift our spirits.
— Star (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 8:06:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

"Lexus concentrates on creating a false image of their inferior product by offering the VIP treatment"

Are you joking? The reliability of a Lexus vehicle compared to their counterparts
is miles ahead. Read any Consumer Reports or JD Power ratings. Why would you make such a false statement?
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 9:51:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

"Tell me how Lexus got hold of this, will you?"

perhaps you should be asking that to Bosch, whom you claim have patented the w/e technology you claim to find in the LS, solely to Mercedes.

— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/9/2007 11:57:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

"Are you joking? The reliability of a Lexus vehicle compared to their counterparts
is miles ahead. Read any Consumer Reports or JD Power ratings. Why would you make such a false statement?"

No its not, in the latest JD Power ratings Lexus suffers on average 1.45 problems per car over the first 3 years while BMW suffers 1.82. That means buying a Lexus means you'll have 0.37 less problems over the first 3 years... WOW!!!
— Kinger (View Profile)

Posted on 9/10/2007 5:17:52 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Of course people want reliability as well as quality you fool.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/10/2007 11:01:07 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Maybe in your mind, but most people equate luxury, quality and reliability as true attributes of a fine automobile.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/10/2007 11:03:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I have a copy a Rob's Report and guess what not a single lexus in sight, just Benz's, BM,Porsches and of course all the italian stallions.

Funny that.
— xj13 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/10/2007 3:21:55 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Baloney. I have read at various times the "Rob Report" magazine, and they have plenty of Lexus, BMW and Mercedes vehicles sold from the same dealers.
Stop posting BS.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/10/2007 11:07:10 AM | | Votes: 1

remember when this site was full of lexus ads. hmm...seems that hyundai is playin the same card
— 1stgenaristoTT (View Profile)

Posted on 9/10/2007 3:00:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Hyundai can do it with the right marketing. Just look at how Toyota created Lexus. Upscale showrooms, hand-picked sales teams, excellent customer service. It's not necessarily about the cars. It's brilliant marketing. After all, they have been selling the same cars under the Lexus brand that they sell in Japan and some other countries under the Toyota brand, and the customers are willing to pay more for them. One of the most successfull marketing plans ever.
— JustaCar (View Profile)

Posted on 9/10/2007 8:51:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Have any of you ever driven an Azera? Probably not. However you continue to turn your nose up at the Hyundai badge. Back in the 60's when Toyota was a fledgling company I owned its first Celica after owning a Corolla. They were thin metal bodies with an engine, rustpots that had little or no staying power. Econoboxes in the face of the big finned American cars which were all the rage. It took a number of years for Toyota, and Honda to get their act together and begin to produce cars that were quality and had value. Hyundai is doing just that now. I love my Azera for its comfort, value and reliability. An excellent car for the money, they are getting it and fast.
— drdonrs (View Profile)

Posted on 9/13/2007 10:13:29 PM | | Votes: 1

I have a IS250 which I am very pleased with in just about all categories (as a bonus, very good mileage).
I was given a loaner of an ES350 which was a disaster. The car is almost undriveable. Similar to FWD cars of '80s vintage. How could Lexus come out with a car like the ES which drives horribly? I would assume the GS and LS are far improved over the ES.
— BMW995 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/10/2007 10:23:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

The ES may look beautiful, but it drives like a Camry, which is pretty damned near close to having no feedback as it gets. HOWEVER, it is possible to drive the Camry and ES with great steering accuracy providing that you know how to drive an handle a car. I am not saying you don't, I am just saying.

Yes, it is nice to have a car that has the optimum amount of steering feedback; that, I cannot argue.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2007 1:37:53 AM | | Votes: 1

Chrysler will need a good RWD platform after Daimler.
— dodgedart (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2007 2:38:13 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

s4:
"You have no idea what you're talking about. "Time" doesn't make a car better. Engineering excellence does. And BMW is better at this than anyone else."

wtf was going thru YOUR head?

did you think i was saying time makes a car better like it does for WINE? i said OVER time, as what happens with continued development. as in the constant pursuit of perfection, among other things.

elsewhere, there was an article pointing out how far toyota had come. when they 1st started exporting to the u.s. in the late fifties, they sold just a handful of cars, and all of ONE land cruiser in the first year.

today, they sell more vehicles than GM.

that happened OVER TIME.
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2007 9:19:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

ErichHartman:

"You're statements are idiotic and biased. Offer some proof before you claim Lexus makes better cars. Better in what?"

how about QUALITY and RELIABILITY? how do you account for the consumer reports finding that the 1998 lexus ls400 had fewer problems than the 2006 ML500?

and that in their used car recommendations, there are two american car models (4 if you include rebadged toyota models), and all the rest are japanese? there is exactly ZERO german cars on that list.

on their chart of "Bad Bets," there are only 3 japanese models, 1 korean, and the rest are ALL american and EUROPEAN!

apparently, even the Koreans, to say nothing of the Japanese, make more reliable (and just as technically advanced) cars than Germans are capable of making.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 9/12/2007 8:47:09 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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Hyundai Pushes Upscale Towards Lexus

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