Hyundai learns from Lexus’ failure, no Genesis for the Europeans

Um. So what.

Lexus does quite well in America, Audi doesn't. And its vice versa in Europe.

Better to be succesfull somewhere than nowhere.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 1:46:44 PM | | Votes: -1   

America is the ONLY place where Lexus does well, While Audi Does well in every other country except America. That's not the same.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 3:14:31 PM | | Votes: 8   

Can you show me proof (actual sales numbers) of Lexus outselling Audi in Japan?

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 3:29:52 PM | | Votes: 4   

Xero, does that really matter when Audi outsells Lexus by more than two-to-one worldwide.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 3:37:25 PM | | Votes: 8   

Yes but then Lexus(Toyota) as a whole sold a lot of cars in recent years in the "Cheap department" as well. It only looks non-prestigious buying an A1-A3 because of it's size. If it was a midsize sedan you'd think otherwise.

As far as appearance and prestige goes. I don't see how rebadged Toyota's can be more prestigious. The IS was Altezza for christ sake. How is that prestigious? Only in the minds of North Americans after all the heavy marketing catering to people like us on this side of the water.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/1/2008 1:01:14 AM | | Votes: 1   

There is no such thing as an A1 XeroFOOL, and the A2 isn't even in production anymore.

— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/1/2008 10:40:28 PM | | Votes: 1   

In the last couple of years German cars have dominated the German Auto Club's list of most reliable cars (throughout the nineties Japanese manufacturers dominated). Btw, this is how well the Genesis drives according to a Korean car magazine.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I8GEz6ioGTI

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 1:47:11 PM | | Votes: 2   

That's the way they roll.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 1:49:03 PM | | Votes: 4   

Actually, to be fair this is the first example of a Korean car that I've seen that blatantly copies another car's styling. The Japanese were much worse.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 1:50:56 PM | | Votes: 2   

"The article does NOT mention of any Lexus's,'failure'!"


This one from last summer does:

"The biggest losers? Saab and Lexus, both of whom dropped around 17 percent. But Saab and Lexus are relatively small players in Europe, so every sale makes a difference."

http://www.leftlanenews.com/vw-leads-europe-in-first-half-of-07.html


And also that recent story about Lexus not doing well in Japan.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 2:05:30 PM | | Votes: 3   

"the Lexus's engine won't be leaking oil all over the engine and painting black skid marks all over their highways much like VW's engines does."

-

[Quote]

Volkswagen Clinches Top Rankings in Latest Quality Surveys


Wolfsburg, GERMANY - Volkswagen stands for the highest standard in manufacturing quality – a fact illustrated by the most recent surveys conducted by leading testers. This year’s DEKRA Mängelreport and AutoBild/TÜV Report both found the Volkswagen Golf to be exceptionally reliable. The Touran also received shining marks in the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport.

The latest Golf came out the winner in the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport’s survey of the compact class with a mileage of between 60,000 and 90,000 kilometres. The Touran achieves similar success in the report. Not only did it attain the highest ranking in this mileage class among vans, but it also came out tops among vehicles with 30,000 to 60,000 kilometres on the clock. These rankings serve to underscore the consistent high standard in quality of these popular models made in Wolfsburg, given that the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport bases its findings on research done on some 15 million vehicles over a period of two years. The most important new aspect of the survey was the evaluation of deficiencies by mileage classes. DEKRA says this classification is a far more accurate indicator of the technical condition of a vehicle than vehicle age alone.

The Golf also clinched a very positive third ranking in the 2008 AutoBild TÜV Report’s survey of automobiles aged two to three years. Only 2.2 per cent of all the Golfs examined in this age class revealed any deficiencies – a result which is well above average (4.8 per cent). This, Germany’s biggest used-car report, based its findings on around seven million general inspections of 194 different models in total.

[/Quote]

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_2208.shtml

---

"Volkswagen wins awards"

http://www.ameinfo.com/144555.html


"Volkswagen TSI Engine Technology receives two awards in Japan"

http://www.carpages.co.uk/volkswagen/volkswagen-tsi-11-12-07.asp

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 2:10:29 PM | | Votes: 4   

TurboSpyder:
in lexus , toyota , chlysler , dodge , saab and also Vw, audi engines was oil sludge and was official recall for repair also:
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Volkswagen/Passat/2003/engine/engine_failure_from_oil_sludge.shtml

you should also look which cars are reliable in TÜV Report . here are the links and cars are in order from most reliable to least reliable which is showed in percentage of cars that have serious defects and didn`t pass inspection . cars are in age groups:

2-3 years old cars http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tuev-report-2008-vozy-stari-2-3-roky-lidove-mazdy-momentalne-vladnou.html

4-5 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tuev-report-2008-vozy-stari-4-5-let-v-cele-s-911-jazzem-a-legacy.html

6-7 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tuev-report-2008-vozy-stari-6-7-let-drici-z-japonska-vs-vikendove-fajnovky-z-nemecka.html

8-9 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tv-report-2008-vozy-stari-8-9-let-vedou-sportovni-porsche-a-mercedesy-a-univerzalni-toyoty.html

10-11 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tv-report-2008-vozy-stari-10-11-let-kazdy-ctvrty-ma-problem.html

like you can see japanese cars are the most reliable and german cars also very high . germans are chasing japanese and they are very almost as reliable .

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 4:31:43 PM | | Votes: 0   

Volkswagen had a short stint in Europe recently where their quality was a bit on the unreliable side. Thankfully those times are gone and the recent VW products have done extremely well in ADAC surveys.

— Wimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 4:35:35 PM | | Votes: 3   

TurboSpyder:
there was many more reliability reports that japanese cars wins e.g. in Britain:
http://www.samar.pl/__/__la/en/__ac/sec,4/new/13716/__1.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/german-cars-in-last-place-for-reliability-say-drivers-555429.html

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/trends7.html?apc=3128339010848601

last is most interesing becouse it is from independent organisation

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 5:16:39 PM | | Votes: -2   

"TurboSpyder:
in lexus , toyota , chlysler , dodge , saab and also Vw, audi engines was oil sludge and was official recall for repair also:
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Volkswagen/Passat/2003/engine"

-

abcd, I looked at your data and a German car came out on top in three of the five categories. Also, in case you're not aware of it Toyota/Lexus had their own problems with sludge. See:

"Sludge smudges Toyota - Engine problem is latest issue to dent automaker's reputation"

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070207/AUTO01/702070349/1148

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 8:47:55 PM | | Votes: 1   

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/trends7.html?apc=3128339010848601

"last is most interesing becouse it is from independent organisation"

-

abcd, here's that same company's relability data for cars in the US.

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=&country=usa&searchtype=relindex

The higher the percentage, the higher the risk of failure.

TOYOTA 24.05%
VOLKSWAGEN 24.29%
HONDA 25.07%

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 8:55:07 PM | | Votes: 3   

Europeans aren't stupid costumers. They just know a fake when they see one.

Options? are you serious? All cars are not created equal and similar options doesn't make them equal.

If all you are looking at are options then you are missing out (or not accounting for ) on the actual "drive".

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 3:10:52 PM | | Votes: 4   

Or perhaps they don't want cars that feel like giant barcaloungers and prefer a sporty compact sedan with proper handling and decent diesel engine options.

I'm just going out on a limb here.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 3:42:03 PM | | Votes: 4   

GoObama, you're joking.

Among the top ten best-selling brands in Germany (2007):

2. Mercedes-Benz 327,742
4. BMW/Mini 284,889
5. Audi 249,305

There is no # for stand-alone BMW sales.

VW is number one.
Toyota/Lexus is number seven; if they were split up, Toyota might move to number eight and Lexus would not make the list.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 3:56:10 PM | | Votes: 3   

Jugnu,

I take offense to your stupid comment about Europeans being the "dumbest customers". Seriously, WTF your problem!?

We don't buy Lexus because Lexus doesn't offer us what we want. Small and efficient engines (aka fuel efficient cars) cheaper trim level, cloth seats, AWD, station wagons etc.

Lexus cars used to be better value than their German rivals, but Lexus has raised prices over here and people are wondering why they should shed out so much money when they can buy a German premium car with everything they want in it and a nice efficient engine under the hood.

Plus, brand heritage is important here. People who pay for luxury cars here want to know they're buying something prestigeous. Lexus isn't prestigeous here at all. No history, no known motorsport participation, no classic cars, no reputation...

— Wimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 4:33:19 PM | | Votes: 4   

Wow, Jugnu, the dumbest statement of the day. Just because Europeans don't buy Lexus means they're stupid?

I used to respect you the most out of all the Toyota/Lexus fan(boy)s on this site. You just lost my respect with that dumb comment.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 5:50:28 PM | | Votes: 4   

Lexus doesn't offer what we want in Europe! No GS or IS station wagon, no diesel automatic IS, no diesel GS, LS or RX (most importantly), and just fuel guzzling engines. An IS200 or GS250 or LS350 would be an improvement.
And as Wimmer says - Lexus' are now expensive, for some odd reason. They aren't the value choice.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 8:10:03 PM | | Votes: 3   

Stupid Europeans?

I've heard that Koreans are some of the most arrogant and chauvinistic people in the world.

Why is that?

What is the reason for this chauvinistic pride that Koreans exhibit?

At least westerners have good reason to be chauvinistic about their cultures.

If it wasn't for western technology and know how Korea would still be a medieval shithole.

Who invented automotive technology?

Who discovered most of the science for this technology?

Of course, I do understand that Korean civilization was one of the more advanced Asian civilizations.

— bazoonga (View Profile)

Posted on 4/1/2008 3:07:07 AM | | Votes: -3   

You're assuming in your theory that the European brands are going to just watch and do nothing. Mistake number one...

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 3/31/2008 5:43:18 PM | | Votes: 1   

Racinghart,

Thanks for the sales statistics. However, I wouldn't consider either the Audi A5 or S5 to be executive saloons - they are GT cars. The A6 is Audi's executive-segment saloon, and I don't see the A6 anywhere on your list.

If you were to obtain A6 sales figures, that would make your sales statistics more meaningful.

— Audiphile (View Profile)

Posted on 4/1/2008 9:02:55 AM | | Votes: 0   

racinghart - are you a car dealer? Doesn't it cost money to get stats like that from the SMMT?

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 4/1/2008 9:32:42 AM | | Votes: 1   

Wow, the Chrysler 300 is on that list--anywhere at all? That's pretty impressive.

— DW1968 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/5/2008 7:21:23 AM | | Votes: 1   

Um...so is a Lexus a fancy Toyota, or isn't it? Because we're talking about Lexus sales, not Toyota sales. It's called logical reasoning, something else that science is based on.

Here's another example of where you might want to go back and apply some logical reasoning: according to you, China had a 5000 year advantage vs Europe in development, and "technology progresses faster as it advances"...yet it still took Lexus 10 years to surpass Germany's 100 yrs of automotive advances...? I guess, by your logic, China must have taken a 4900 year nap.

And what Wimmer and Rupert are saying is that Lexus' offerings are undesirable to European customers. So, yes, $0 is too much to pay for something undesirable. Of course that's logical, so it probably doesn't make sense to you--but keep trying; one day you'll get it.

— DW1968 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/5/2008 7:41:10 AM | | Votes: 0