Hyundai learns from Lexus’ failure, no Genesis for the Europeans

omarrana submitted on 03/31/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 12:42 PM
from: www.egmcartech.com

Tags: Hyundai

Hyundai

Hyundai learns from Lexus’ failure, no Genesis for the Europeans

Finally, we’ll have something the Europeans don’t have and may actually want - and it’s from Hyundai. According to Hyundai’s spokesman Oles Gadacz, Hyundai will not sell its new flagship luxury sedan, the Genesis, in Europe. Hyundai says learning from the failure of Toyota’s Lexus to sell cars in large quantities in Europe is one major reason.

“We looked at Lexus’ track record in Europe,” said Gadacz.

In 2007, Lexus sold... Read Article

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Czelinski - 3/31/2008 1:02:14 PM

+13 Boost

Haha, love that bit in the article where he says sucks for u. I honestly don't think that many people in Europe what one firstly. Secondly, for that kind of money, it would be much better spent on a second hand Audi, MB or BMW with only 20000 miles on the clock.

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AROD550I - 3/31/2008 2:16:43 PM

+10 Boost

EXACTLY LIKE THAT COMMENT.

LexSucks - 3/31/2008 1:07:39 PM

+14 Boost

Lexus track record in Europe?
Not good. If it weren't for America, Lexus would be extinct.

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answer - 3/31/2008 1:46:44 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Um. So what.

Lexus does quite well in America, Audi doesn't. And its vice versa in Europe.

Better to be succesfull somewhere than nowhere.

LexSucks - 3/31/2008 3:14:31 PM

+9 Boost

America is the ONLY place where Lexus does well, While Audi Does well in every other country except America. That's not the same.

LexSucks - 3/31/2008 3:29:52 PM

+4 Boost

Can you show me proof (actual sales numbers) of Lexus outselling Audi in Japan?

S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 3:37:25 PMView My AgentSpace

+9 Boost

Xero, does that really matter when Audi outsells Lexus by more than two-to-one worldwide.

Agent63 - 4/1/2008 1:01:14 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Yes but then Lexus(Toyota) as a whole sold a lot of cars in recent years in the "Cheap department" as well. It only looks non-prestigious buying an A1-A3 because of it's size. If it was a midsize sedan you'd think otherwise.

As far as appearance and prestige goes. I don't see how rebadged Toyota's can be more prestigious. The IS was Altezza for christ sake. How is that prestigious? Only in the minds of North Americans after all the heavy marketing catering to people like us on this side of the water.

Matthew1 - 4/1/2008 10:40:28 PM

+1 Boost

There is no such thing as an A1 XeroFOOL, and the A2 isn't even in production anymore.

BMW995 - 3/31/2008 1:38:28 PM

-4 Boost

The first poster may be misinformed.
The Genesis may be a whole lot more reliable than a 20K miles German Luxo auto. If this car drives well, which I think it will, it will be a smashing success here. In the low $30's for the V6 model it will be a tremendous value. Hyundai is probably correct that it would not go over well in Europe.

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TurboSpyder - 3/31/2008 1:47:11 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

In the last couple of years German cars have dominated the German Auto Club's list of most reliable cars (throughout the nineties Japanese manufacturers dominated). Btw, this is how well the Genesis drives according to a Korean car magazine.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I8GEz6ioGTI

AROD550I - 3/31/2008 2:19:15 PM

+1 Boost

STOP EUROPEAN CAR ARE BUIT TO BE DRIVEN FOR EVER AND NOT CHANGE IN THE RIDE AND QUALITY OF THE UPOLSTERY WHICH TO ME IS THE CHARACTER OF THE CAR THATS WHY AN CERTIFIED PREOWNED BMW WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO.

TurboSpyder - 3/31/2008 1:41:03 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

It makes sense, I guess, to only sell it in North America. Americans love a luxury bargain as Lexus' success shows.

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lexusrox123 - 3/31/2008 1:43:51 PM

+2 Boost

looks like an mb!!! (w/o the big gaudy mb emblem on the grille) doesnt it look kind of like an MB S class???? : (

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TurboSpyder - 3/31/2008 1:49:03 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

That's the way they roll.

TurboSpyder - 3/31/2008 1:50:56 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Actually, to be fair this is the first example of a Korean car that I've seen that blatantly copies another car's styling. The Japanese were much worse.

Homer008 - 3/31/2008 1:52:13 PM

-3 Boost

The article does NOT mention of any Lexus's,"failure"! The title is misinformed. the fact is its steadly picking up paces. That is all Lexayota needs to let the misinformed european folks that the Lexus's engine won't be leaking oil all over the engine and painting black skid marks all over their highways much like VW's engines does.

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TurboSpyder - 3/31/2008 2:05:30 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

"The article does NOT mention of any Lexus's,'failure'!"

This one from last summer does:

"The biggest losers? Saab and Lexus, both of whom dropped around 17 percent. But Saab and Lexus are relatively small players in Europe, so every sale makes a difference."

http://www.leftlanenews.com/vw-leads-europe-in-first-half-of-07.html

And also that recent story about Lexus not doing well in Japan.

TurboSpyder - 3/31/2008 2:10:29 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

"the Lexus's engine won't be leaking oil all over the engine and painting black skid marks all over their highways much like VW's engines does."

-

[Quote]

Volkswagen Clinches Top Rankings in Latest Quality Surveys

Wolfsburg, GERMANY - Volkswagen stands for the highest standard in manufacturing quality – a fact illustrated by the most recent surveys conducted by leading testers. This year’s DEKRA Mängelreport and AutoBild/TÜV Report both found the Volkswagen Golf to be exceptionally reliable. The Touran also received shining marks in the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport.

The latest Golf came out the winner in the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport’s survey of the compact class with a mileage of between 60,000 and 90,000 kilometres. The Touran achieves similar success in the report. Not only did it attain the highest ranking in this mileage class among vans, but it also came out tops among vehicles with 30,000 to 60,000 kilometres on the clock. These rankings serve to underscore the consistent high standard in quality of these popular models made in Wolfsburg, given that the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport bases its findings on research done on some 15 million vehicles over a period of two years. The most important new aspect of the survey was the evaluation of deficiencies by mileage classes. DEKRA says this classification is a far more accurate indicator of the technical condition of a vehicle than vehicle age alone.

The Golf also clinched a very positive third ranking in the 2008 AutoBild TÜV Report’s survey of automobiles aged two to three years. Only 2.2 per cent of all the Golfs examined in this age class revealed any deficiencies – a result which is well above average (4.8 per cent). This, Germany’s biggest used-car report, based its findings on around seven million general inspections of 194 different models in total.

[/Quote]

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_2208.shtml

---

"Volkswagen wins awards"

http://www.ameinfo.com/144555.html

"Volkswagen TSI Engine Technology receives two awards in Japan"

http://www.carpages.co.uk/volkswagen/volkswagen-tsi-11-12-07.asp

abcd - 3/31/2008 4:31:43 PM

0 Boost

TurboSpyder:
in lexus , toyota , chlysler , dodge , saab and also Vw, audi engines was oil sludge and was official recall for repair also:
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Volkswagen/Passat/2003/engine/engine_failure_from_oil_sludge.shtml

you should also look which cars are reliable in TÜV Report . here are the links and cars are in order from most reliable to least reliable which is showed in percentage of cars that have serious defects and didn`t pass inspection . cars are in age groups:

2-3 years old cars http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tuev-report-2008-vozy-stari-2-3-roky-lidove-mazdy-momentalne-vladnou.html

4-5 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tuev-report-2008-vozy-stari-4-5-let-v-cele-s-911-jazzem-a-legacy.html

6-7 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tuev-report-2008-vozy-stari-6-7-let-drici-z-japonska-vs-vikendove-fajnovky-z-nemecka.html

8-9 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tv-report-2008-vozy-stari-8-9-let-vedou-sportovni-porsche-a-mercedesy-a-univerzalni-toyoty.html

10-11 http://news.auto.cz/aktuality/auto-bild-tv-report-2008-vozy-stari-10-11-let-kazdy-ctvrty-ma-problem.html

like you can see japanese cars are the most reliable and german cars also very high . germans are chasing japanese and they are very almost as reliable .

Wimmer - 3/31/2008 4:35:35 PM

+3 Boost

Volkswagen had a short stint in Europe recently where their quality was a bit on the unreliable side. Thankfully those times are gone and the recent VW products have done extremely well in ADAC surveys.

abcd - 3/31/2008 5:16:39 PM

-2 Boost

TurboSpyder:
there was many more reliability reports that japanese cars wins e.g. in Britain:
http://www.samar.pl/__/__la/en/__ac/sec,4/new/13716/__1.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/german-cars-in-last-place-for-reliability-say-drivers-555429.html

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/trends7.html?apc=3128339010848601

last is most interesing becouse it is from independent organisation

TurboSpyder - 3/31/2008 8:47:55 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"TurboSpyder:
in lexus , toyota , chlysler , dodge , saab and also Vw, audi engines was oil sludge and was official recall for repair also:
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Volkswagen/Passat/2003/engine"

-

abcd, I looked at your data and a German car came out on top in three of the five categories. Also, in case you're not aware of it Toyota/Lexus had their own problems with sludge. See:

"Sludge smudges Toyota - Engine problem is latest issue to dent automaker's reputation"

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070207/AUTO01/702070349/1148

TurboSpyder - 3/31/2008 8:55:07 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/trends7.html?apc=3128339010848601

"last is most interesing becouse it is from independent organisation"

-

abcd, here's that same company's relability data for cars in the US.

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=&country=usa&searchtype=relindex

The higher the percentage, the higher the risk of failure.

TOYOTA 24.05%
VOLKSWAGEN 24.29%
HONDA 25.07%

JUGNU - 3/31/2008 2:46:36 PMView My AgentSpace

-5 Boost

If European don't buy or choose Lexus, Hyundai...etc that means and takes absolutley nothing from Lexus and Hyundai but just shows the mentality of Europran coustomers.

no matter how good the genesis is or how good a value it is Hyundai know it won't do good in Europe where people just go for badges. If that's true i would say
Europeans are one of the stupidest coustomers.

Intelligent coustomer would check every option and atleast try to and then make his purchase and not blindly just buys one or two brands.

JUGNU

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LexSucks - 3/31/2008 3:10:52 PM

+5 Boost

Europeans aren't stupid costumers. They just know a fake when they see one.

Options? are you serious? All cars are not created equal and similar options doesn't make them equal.

If all you are looking at are options then you are missing out (or not accounting for ) on the actual "drive".

S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 3:42:03 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Or perhaps they don't want cars that feel like giant barcaloungers and prefer a sporty compact sedan with proper handling and decent diesel engine options.

I'm just going out on a limb here.

S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 3:56:10 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

GoObama, you're joking.

Among the top ten best-selling brands in Germany (2007):

2. Mercedes-Benz 327,742
4. BMW/Mini 284,889
5. Audi 249,305

There is no # for stand-alone BMW sales.

VW is number one.
Toyota/Lexus is number seven; if they were split up, Toyota might move to number eight and Lexus would not make the list.

Wimmer - 3/31/2008 4:33:19 PM

+5 Boost

Jugnu,

I take offense to your stupid comment about Europeans being the "dumbest customers". Seriously, WTF your problem!?

We don't buy Lexus because Lexus doesn't offer us what we want. Small and efficient engines (aka fuel efficient cars) cheaper trim level, cloth seats, AWD, station wagons etc.

Lexus cars used to be better value than their German rivals, but Lexus has raised prices over here and people are wondering why they should shed out so much money when they can buy a German premium car with everything they want in it and a nice efficient engine under the hood.

Plus, brand heritage is important here. People who pay for luxury cars here want to know they're buying something prestigeous. Lexus isn't prestigeous here at all. No history, no known motorsport participation, no classic cars, no reputation...

Willis - 3/31/2008 5:50:28 PM

+4 Boost

Wow, Jugnu, the dumbest statement of the day. Just because Europeans don't buy Lexus means they're stupid?

I used to respect you the most out of all the Toyota/Lexus fan(boy)s on this site. You just lost my respect with that dumb comment.

Rupert - 3/31/2008 8:10:03 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Lexus doesn't offer what we want in Europe! No GS or IS station wagon, no diesel automatic IS, no diesel GS, LS or RX (most importantly), and just fuel guzzling engines. An IS200 or GS250 or LS350 would be an improvement.
And as Wimmer says - Lexus' are now expensive, for some odd reason. They aren't the value choice.

bazoonga - 4/1/2008 3:07:07 AM

-3 Boost

Stupid Europeans?

I've heard that Koreans are some of the most arrogant and chauvinistic people in the world.

Why is that?

What is the reason for this chauvinistic pride that Koreans exhibit?

At least westerners have good reason to be chauvinistic about their cultures.

If it wasn't for western technology and know how Korea would still be a medieval shithole.

Who invented automotive technology?

Who discovered most of the science for this technology?

Of course, I do understand that Korean civilization was one of the more advanced Asian civilizations.

EL34 - 3/31/2008 3:41:54 PM

+7 Boost

GoObama08, say hello to Pastor Wright when you see him privately this Sunday at his 1.6 million dollar Chi-Town mansion.

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S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 4:00:10 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

$1.6 mill wouldn't buy you a three-bedroom condo in the nicer parts of Chicago, much less a mansion.

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Rupert - 3/31/2008 4:12:33 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

1.6 million will buy you a 3 bed semi-detatched house with a small garden and no off-street parking or garage where I live.
There's a 2 bed flat going for 750000 pounds (1.4 million dollars) like a mile from my house - and they'll sell it at that price. It's insane round here.

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Wimmer - 3/31/2008 4:29:55 PM

+3 Boost

Um....

I am from Europe (Germany) and the Lexus LS and IS are not "hot" here. Sales wise they're well below their German rivals.

The only country in Europe where Lexus is doing well is London, excuse me, the UK!

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Rupert - 3/31/2008 8:08:16 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I live in London - and I wouldn't call Lexus popular. People picked the hybrids for the free congestion charge, but that's ending this October. I expect sales to plummet.
For every IS I see, I see about 10 3 series.

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bocabimmer - 3/31/2008 11:51:56 PM

+3 Boost

goobama-----you should keep your politics out of the car forums..
im sure the non americans agree with me too..

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agent507 - 4/1/2008 5:35:49 AM

+1 Boost

Most of the Lexus you see driving around in Europe are registered by Toyota dealers (there arent any "exclusive" Lexus dealers that I konw of) for "give aways" when you bring a Toyota in for service or for interested people to test them. You can easily get a Lexus for a weekend for free, whereas I doubt that you will that easily get your hands on a MB, Audi or BMW.

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Rupert - 4/1/2008 9:29:59 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Agent507 - true, the nearest Lexus dealer to me is a Toyota dealer as well.

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BigShow50 - 3/31/2008 5:12:34 PM

-2 Boost

Funny to read how the german fanboys love the great denial. Nothing new there. As for Hyundai, not surprise they will accept failure now, considering they still have a long road ahead of them. And obviously they recognize that the Genesis is not the key solution. Or should it have been?...Either way to bad for them. As for Lexus kudos for them for at least trying to compete in such a tough segment in europe against the heavy hitters. But Lexus will survive with success, it comes with struggle and time over time, that's all.

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Willis - 3/31/2008 5:43:18 PM

+1 Boost

You're assuming in your theory that the European brands are going to just watch and do nothing. Mistake number one...

lexusis350 - 3/31/2008 5:53:37 PM

+4 Boost

No Genesis for the Europeans? Looks like I'm moving to Europe :)

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S2000VS911 - 4/1/2008 1:36:00 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Korean S-Class ... how much when come to Canada ?

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bazoonga - 4/1/2008 3:13:01 AM

+2 Boost

GoObama08,

>I meant rarely see a mb or bmw in germany

You must check your eyes.

Where in Germany did you go and how long did you go for?

You do one little visit and you feel qualified to comment?

I've lived in Germany and have been all over there maybe 10 ten times in the last 10 years and from my experience on their roads your comment is bullsh!t.

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andraz - 4/1/2008 3:50:59 AM

0 Boost

mercedes 550 is not sold in europe. Not under this badge. Its called 500.

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racinghart - 4/1/2008 4:28:46 AM

+2 Boost

As far as 'luxury' cars in the UK go, Lexus doesn't feature currently (the older LS430 was considered a 'luxury' vehicle, but recorded just one registration in 2007). The Luxury segment consists of vehicles such as Bentley Arnage and Continental Flying Spur, Rolls Royce Phantom, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes S-Class, BMW 7 Series, Audi A8 etc. However, in the Executive segment, the UK sales for year end 2007:

BMW SERIES 5 19974
MERCEDES E-CLASS 13147
JAGUAR S-TYPE 4453
VOLVO V70 4273
SAAB 9-5 3182
CHRYSLER 300 3058
AUDI A5 2067
VOLVO S80 1912
VAUXHALL SIGNUM 1634
LEXUS GS 1336
LEXUS LS 582
AUDI S5 580

Note that Lexus is by no means a 'top' performer. They do outsell one niche market Audi though.

No opinion from me, these are just facts from SMMT database.

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Audiphile - 4/1/2008 9:02:55 AM

0 Boost

Racinghart,

Thanks for the sales statistics. However, I wouldn't consider either the Audi A5 or S5 to be executive saloons - they are GT cars. The A6 is Audi's executive-segment saloon, and I don't see the A6 anywhere on your list.

If you were to obtain A6 sales figures, that would make your sales statistics more meaningful.

Rupert - 4/1/2008 9:32:42 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

racinghart - are you a car dealer? Doesn't it cost money to get stats like that from the SMMT?

DW1968 - 4/5/2008 7:21:23 AM

+1 Boost

Wow, the Chrysler 300 is on that list--anywhere at all? That's pretty impressive.

JUGNU - 4/1/2008 6:27:16 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Wimmer and Willis

read my first post again. I said

"Hyundai know it won't do good in Europe where people just go for badges. If that's true i would say
Europeans are one of the stupidest coustomers."

IF 'THAT'S TRUE' is the key word there.
Well to my yes if it's true that new auto companies are afraid to go to Europe with a very good and competitive product just because they fear that their product won't do good as European audiences just go for their national products and badges no matter how good others are, then yes European coustomers are one of the dumbest.

example here being Genesis. Everyone knows what a stunning value it is. It's almost impossible to charge for an ES and offers LS type car.

Which other cars even come close to this great value tell me.

Therefore Genesis should do well where ever it goes.

then what is stopping Hyundai to sell it in Europe? U tell me.

"similar options doesn't make them equal."

Then what is. It's surely some other biases which tips the scale in some's favour.

"Intelligent coustomer would check every option and atleast try to and then make his purchase and not blindly just buys one or two brands."

Every option mean rivals/competitors.

nationl things shouldn't be that a big factor of an intelligent coustomer's buying desicion. Luuxry, Performance, Value, relibility, serive...etc should.

anyway i didn't mean to offend anyone. It's OK take it easy.

all in all Lexus, Genesis...etc are good cars. No matter where they are made and from. If Europeans are not buying them that means and takes absolutley nothing from these great offereings.

JUGNU

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NewBeginning - 4/1/2008 11:20:14 AM

-3 Boost

Everyone knows North America is the major playground for japs and Korean autocompanies. If Japs can't keep up with Korean's value and reliability, then Japs have nowhere else to go.

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huu76 - 4/2/2008 9:05:21 PM

-1 Boost

bazoonga,
The west has had a good run the last 300 or so years, it's unfortunate Europeans can't remember anything before that. While Europe was still huddled in caves 5000 years ago, China already had a full fledged culture along with the Egyptians and later on Persians etc. The rest of humanity of the time also developed odd things called writing, math, astronomy, agriculture, navigation, you know, the general stuff science is based on.

Fortunately for Europe, technology progresses faster as it advances. Perfect example is it only took Lexus 10 years to surpase the German's 100yrs and show them how its done (Lexus doesn't need poor people models either).

I can see how the Europeans are starting to shy away from Lexus now that its out of their price range, hence they have to stick with more mundane brands like BMW and MB.

Newbeginning,
Toyota sells nearly a million cars in Europe. I guess Toyota can't sell anywhere right?

Wimmer,
So you're saying basically Lexus doesn't offer something affordable to you.

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DW1968 - 4/5/2008 7:41:10 AM

+1 Boost

Um...so is a Lexus a fancy Toyota, or isn't it? Because we're talking about Lexus sales, not Toyota sales. It's called logical reasoning, something else that science is based on.

Here's another example of where you might want to go back and apply some logical reasoning: according to you, China had a 5000 year advantage vs Europe in development, and "technology progresses faster as it advances"...yet it still took Lexus 10 years to surpass Germany's 100 yrs of automotive advances...? I guess, by your logic, China must have taken a 4900 year nap.

And what Wimmer and Rupert are saying is that Lexus' offerings are undesirable to European customers. So, yes, $0 is too much to pay for something undesirable. Of course that's logical, so it probably doesn't make sense to you--but keep trying; one day you'll get it.

huu76 - 4/2/2008 9:06:30 PM

+1 Boost

About the article. Hyundai just doesn't want to be embarassed and lose to the Japanese.

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