Hyundai on Lexus: If Toyota can do it, why not us

omarrana submitted on 03/10/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 3:43 PM
from: www.egmcartech.com

Tags: Hyundai

Hyundai

Hyundai on Lexus: If Toyota can do it, why not us

We really want to give Hyundai a lot of credit for their ambitious plan to move upscale, but we’ll have to wait and see how well the new Genesis luxury sedan is received when its hits dealerships this summer.

“The Genesis will upgrade our image” across a range of buyers, says Frank Shin. “Then they can believe in the Veracruz, Sonata and so on.”

The launch of the new flagship is crucial to Hyundai’s image, which improved after its two Super Bowl spots showing off the new Genesis.

In its first year, Hyundai will be exporting only... Read Article

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theoptimisticpessimist - 3/10/2008 4:30:09 PM

+9 Boost

Toyota was smart enough to use a new nameplate!

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silver1 - 3/10/2008 6:41:16 PM

+1 Boost

LOL! Thats another reason!

EnnNorak - 3/10/2008 6:44:03 PM

-2 Boost

People don't get fooled any more with a new nameplate or with the weakening of a model name by assigning it to a lower-priced car in a future year. What I really hate is the European marketing quirk of giving an industrial product a model name instead of a number.

1995e34 - 3/10/2008 9:23:12 PM

+1 Boost

i think using the hyundai name was brilliant. they aren't trying to hide what the car really is.

S4cabriofoxone - 3/11/2008 6:23:44 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

1995, I don't think it was a choice. They don't have enough money to start a new brand yet.

pushrod27 - 3/10/2008 4:42:13 PM

+1 Boost

And the Toyota itself name was recognized for quality and durability without the advent of a contrived luxury brand.

Hyundai is known for bargains, and they didn't even take the time to set up a different brand and retail channel to distance the new car from the name 'Hyundai.'

In my opinion, the only way the Hyundai can succeed in the luxury market is to start a new company. Not a division of Hyundai, but a new entity that just happens to be owned, funded, and controlled by Hyundai.

Any attempts to retail upscale cars would require a lot of distance from the very low-brow and undesirable Hyundai name.

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0to60 - 3/10/2008 6:55:26 PM

+1 Boost

I agree. I think of toyota as being higher end car than Hyundai. And they need to brush off that thought to be a real player in the game.

Czelinski - 3/10/2008 4:42:39 PM

-1 Boost

That many outside of America still regard as Toyota.

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PlanB - 3/10/2008 5:00:38 PM

+1 Boost

I'm not so sure a new nameplate would help them so much right now. Toyota had already established themselves as a competent automaker before Lexus came along. Hyundai doesn't really have that advantage so what good would another moniker/logo, that everybody would still know is Hyundai, do for the Genesis right now? Judging by half the responses regarding the Genesis on this site, None.

The article said that if all goes well with Genesis, they'll put it under a new luxury nameplate in 5 years(probably for its 2nd gen model) and I think thats a good idea. This car is a test of sorts for them to show the world that they're capable of building good cars. Once they're taken more seriously then they can move on up to the next step.

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mini22 - 3/10/2008 5:17:32 PM

+1 Boost

Hyundai now has just about reached parity in terms of quality with Toyota and Honda and Nissan. Toyota and Honda and Nissan originally started out with small economy cars in the US.Lots of parallels here. I see no reason why they cannot compete in the Luxo segment.It all depends on how Genesis is marketed. Infiniti originally did a terrible job with their original Q45. If you remember those 1st ads they did not show "anything".It did not work and gave Lexus a great running start advantage. So whether they go with a new luxury division or not I think marketing plays a big part in it.

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EL34 - 3/10/2008 5:31:42 PM

+3 Boost

"Hyundai on Lexus: If Toyota can do it, why not us"

Well, the Genesis looks just like the LS460 which looks like a homogenization of BMW, Mercedes & Audi products.

So why the hell not? :-/

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pushrod27 - 3/10/2008 6:43:26 PM

+2 Boost

Agreed. +1 EL.

pushrod27 - 3/11/2008 4:04:43 AM

+2 Boost

You're either blind, stupid, or a liar. The LS460 is another amorphous blend of other cars' designs. The LS is in a class by itself okay: '2nd. class luxo barges.'

S4cabriofoxone - 3/11/2008 6:28:47 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

XYZZ, you're really pushing it.

You usually sound ridiculously stubborn, but this is over the top.

The Hyundai Genesis truly DOES look like an LS460. I saw the car at the auto show, and it's very stylish. To me, it actually has more of a "wow" factor than the Lexus, probably because Hyundai was smart enough to give the car a little body surfacing and attractive wheels. However, when both are on the street, the LS will look better, because it still costs about twice the price.

Hm. The LS is in a class all by itself. Would that class be the "value-priced feature-stuffed fun-free 'luxury' sedan" class?

silver1 - 3/10/2008 6:39:52 PM

-7 Boost

Why not us?????

I can tell you why. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Toyota Motor Corporation made 14,000,000,000 dollars in revenues last year and is The richest Automaker in The World, and the U.S. (the world's most powerful country) #1 Luxury brand, world's best selling car, and of Course U.S. Best selling car....

Define Lexus:
Luxury
EXport
United
States

United States Meaning powerful, Lexus means powerful, richest, Commander in cheif,

Thats why.....

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pushrod27 - 3/10/2008 6:45:47 PM

+1 Boost

Hyundai has deep pockets, too. I wouldn't begin to know how to compare the two properly, but i do know that Hyundai is partly owned or funded by the state of Korea, and that Hyundai heavy industries makes a lot of money building heavy industrial equipment and ships. I'm pretty sure that Hyundai motors has access to enough money to take Lexus (with regard to spending on r&d and marketing) on if they were properly committed to such an undertaking.

EnnNorak - 3/10/2008 6:51:57 PM

+3 Boost

As company revenues grow, each successive chief executive becomes evermore pressured to break the financial performance record of his predecessor. Sooner or later market penetration and sales reach a plateau at which point he starts cutting costs in order to keep profits growing. That is when overall product quality starts to deteriorate. That is why you get a better product and/or better value from a company like Audi, Subaru, and Hyundai.

silver1 - 3/10/2008 6:56:08 PM

-4 Boost

"pushrod27"

What da hell????

I know we are not comparing Korea to Japan

Japan home to some of the largest financial services companies, business groups and bank such as Sony, Sumitomo, Mitsubishi and Toyota. It is also home to the world's largest bank by asset, Japan Post Bank (US$3.2 trillion) and others such as Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group (US$1.2 trillion). Mizuho Financial Group (US$1.4 trillion)and Sumitomo Mitsui Financial Group (US$1.3 trillion). The Tokyo Stock Exchange with a market capitalization of over 549.7 trillion Yen as of December 2006 stands as the second largest in the world.

Hyundai may have deep pockets, but not as nearly close to Toyota Motor Corporation

LexSucks - 3/10/2008 7:12:43 PM

+4 Boost

Just throw a name badge on the thing and market them as being "BMW" killers. They'll eat them up and start posting retarded messages here on Autospies claiming Automotive Supremacy. Sound familiar?

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huu76 - 3/10/2008 8:05:26 PM

0 Boost

Maybe after another generation or two, and when they can seriously challenge Toyota. They don't even come close to challenging Nissan and Honda yet.

The difference is that Toyota was already a globally respected automotive power before the launch of Lexus.

Hyundai means bargain cars (that basically only sell in N.America). The Koreans can claim to be all European and such, but it won't help.

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smokefreak2003 - 3/11/2008 2:13:30 AM

+2 Boost

Hyundai Sells cars all over the world and thats why it is the World's 5th largest automaker. Their Bread and butter overseas is the 60MPG Getz(Soon to be I-10), the 45MPG Diesel Accent/I-20, the 43MPG Diesel Elantra/I-30.)

You guys can talk all of the shit you want about Hyundai, but a 10 year old used Hyundai is still better than a Brand New Daewoo Matiz/Chevy Aveo or Daewoo Lacetti/Chevy Lacetti/Suzuki Reno-5 door version/ Forenza 4 door version. Yet, the thing is those are considered good runabout cars in Europe. We as Americans are spoiled when it comes to cars, well everything except American cars. ALL cars that are imported over here are leaps beyond the junk they have on European roads. You have the Vauxhalls (now reebaged Saturns) with the steering of a brick. Renaults are notorious for catching on fire, maybe that's why Nissan is having so many problems, since they started to outsource from Renualt. Opels are nice looking however, I have heard they steer like shit though. Also, a lot of their cars hav greta mileage, however with 70-80 Horsepower. 90 Horse is probably the minimum you can get away with and be kind of ok on a modern American interstate. Plus, a lot of European and some Asian cars arent built for our Interstate Highway system to make continous highwaytrips of 1000 miles or more. While Hyundais are. Iam on my second Hayundai. I dont know about the guy about 10 posts back with the Azera complaints. I mean the Azera is a completely new car its probably going to have some kinks, like this Genesis will in its first year of 2. However, everybody slams the Accent, becuase it starts out at a low price. Which by the way, is a car that has not had a recall in 7 years according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Toyota cant say that about the Corrola.

I know when I shopped for my New Accent I looked at the Nissan Versa
=Outsourced by Renault, unknown quality, dislike of Renault cars catching on fire, weak warranty, price only based upon percieved Nisaan quality, hard to finance. Engine Noise excessive at speeds 75 mph+, sounds louder than most cars if they had 2 cold air intakes attached. Very Nice interior though.

Toyota Yaris=I just never been fascinated by Toyota, the Yaris is overrated, the Echo/last gen Yaris had many recals or engine problems. Weird instrument cluster placing.

Honda Fit=Great car I love Hondas, however those door handles are ancient feeling. I thought about how would it be like to break one of those door handles in an ice storm 5-10 years from now. A base Fit costs more than a Base Last Generation Civic with equal content.

Hyundai Accent=I owned a first gen one before. Rugged, I drove it everywhere across the country, handles snow like butter, hugs curves very nicely, Gas Mileage was great(With E-85 it was hybrid-esque), easy to Operate(Feels like a Honda, Mazda, Nissan Product with the way the ride and switches and interior placement are) The Al

huu76 - 3/10/2008 8:23:20 PM

+1 Boost

Pushrod,
According to Forbes, Toyota Motor Corporation ranks 15th in the most profitable companies (and 6th in revenue) only behind banks and oil companies. This doesn't take into effect Toyota Industries (5 billion profit) and the rest of the Toyota Group.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0707/gallery.global500_profits.fortune/15.html

By comparison, Hyundai Heavy Industries (which I assume encompasses autos and shipping) ranks 422 overall and made 736 million.
Honda made 5 billion net profit (Mercedes made 4 billion, VW just over 3).

I'm pretty sure Toyota's pockets are just a little bit deeper.

I seriously wonder if these conglomorates shift money to other sectors. You'd think they expect each area to make money on their own.

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huu76 - 3/10/2008 8:28:03 PM

0 Boost

Oh, I found them. Hyundai Motor ranks 76th with 1.3 billion in profit, still a ways off.

I guess it depends on how long Hyundai can use the undercut strategy. Will raising prices ever offset higher volume/lower margin?

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huu76 - 3/10/2008 8:34:42 PM

-2 Boost

Last post here.
Hyundai profit as % of revenue is 1.9%.
Toyota is 7%, Honda 5% and Nissan 4%.

Hyundai's image will suffer if they keep offering the Accent/Elantra alongside the Genesis (the same with Toyota but Toyota had the Landcruiser/Supra/FJ and others to help legitimize the brand).

Just watch BMW's image drop once the 1-series hits. You already see this with the B-class and A3.

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S4cabriofoxone - 3/11/2008 6:31:24 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"lesser models are marketed under the toyota and scion labels. Lexus can and i project will ALWAYS be, kept as an EXCLUSIVELY LUXURY line."

Why would this be an advantage over Audi and VW?

Let's see. To cover the lower end: VW, SEAT, Skoda

Upper end: Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche (owner)

Yeah, HUGE advantage for Toylex.

asiancars233 - 3/10/2008 10:43:22 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

I like Hyundai, but to starting believing in the Sonata ?! They should get rid of the sonata and replace it with a better car. So it ups their "Luxury Image"

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EL34 - 3/10/2008 11:20:44 PM

+1 Boost

I will buy a Lexus LS460 when they build'em in America ;-)

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silver1 - 3/11/2008 10:30:31 AM

-1 Boost

I guess you'll never own one because that'll will never happen.

Exclusive cars from Toyota are and will be kept building in Japan. Even all Toyota Camry Hybrids only are build only in Japan. The Lexus LS will never see birth here in U.S.

BMW995 - 3/10/2008 11:21:15 PM

+1 Boost

The bottom line is...how does it drive? If it drives well (ride and handling) and doesn't feel cheap then they may have a winner on their hands. Four yrs ago I bought a 3 yr old Acura RL for my wife (cost $27K). If the Genesis competes well with a used '04 or '05 RL I'll buy the V6 Genesis, otherwise it's back to Acura. Its as simple as that.

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lexusis350 - 3/10/2008 11:53:32 PM

+1 Boost

"Hyundai on Lexus: If Toyota can do it, why not us?"

Hmmmm. Maybe because Toyota has built good cars for so long people trust Lexus. Hyundai, on the other hand, has built POS cars up until a few years ago. If you ask me, they need another decade before they should even consider building a luxury car. And they need a new name for a luxury car. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to get a "fancy" car with the Hyundai name on it.

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kpaxx - 3/11/2008 8:44:51 AM

-1 Boost

Lest you forget the Toyota of the 80's were big POS.

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silver1 - 3/11/2008 10:34:59 AM

+1 Boost

Oh really? Please show us sources. Toyota has never been POS. NEVER EVER. Now I can name several american cars and German cars that were POS in the 80's....The 80's is when people were first starting to buy Japanese cars when they were strating to realize who reliable they were.

1980's is when the shift from American cars to Japanese cars like Toyota Cressida, Acura Legend, Honda Accord, etc... Came to play....

Agent250 - 3/11/2008 9:17:54 AM

+2 Boost

Now I get it! If Toyota could easily compete and steal BMW's market with Lexus, why can't Hyundai also! Hyundai is using Lexus as a role model and BMW as the target. That's why the commercials were targeting BMW.

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iamdabest1 - 3/11/2008 10:38:05 AM

+3 Boost

lol. i cant imagine anyone ever driving a bmw, benz, audi switching to hyundai.

maybe lexus es 350 shoppers, infiniti , acura, volvo owners.

ill take a sega genesis before a hyundai genesis .

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simbaba - 3/11/2008 3:37:42 PM

0 Boost

EL34
I will buy a Lexus LS460 when they build'em in America ;-)
YOU'Re NOT WORTHY....

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smokefreak2003 - 3/11/2008 8:48:01 PM

+1 Boost

silver1- Just like people are shifting buying preferecnes, from Toyota and Honda, to Hyundai. Maybe thats why Hyundai is the 5th Largest Automaker in the world. With models in North Aerica that may not be the top selling car in their repesctive classes but are always in the top 3-5 cars. The Sonata, Elantra, and Accent are the 3rd place sellers in their class. That is good considering the competition. I mean think about it. If you can get the same content or nearly the same content for $4000-$6000 less. You would be an absolute idiot to pass it up becuase, "Oh its a Hyundai, my friends are going to laugh at me, people are going to think Iam low class." Big damm deal, I thought we are all adults here. I guess this is adult grade school though. Plus, silver1 ask anybody over 40, and they will tell that Toyotas were Cosidered by most of the public POS's up until about 1985. However, they started to make good Toyotas from 1975-1978 on. Read your automotive history. Hyundai has gone through the POS phase and makes good cars now. Now they have to convince America that they do. That will take to about 2012-2015. Then, Toyota will really be in trouble. If the Chinese and Indians come into the market within 2 years. I bet none of you would consider calling a Hyundai a POS.

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smokefreak2003 - 3/11/2008 9:02:08 PM

+1 Boost

Then after that the: Malaysians, Indonesians, Brazilians, Ethiopians, and Nigerians wIll start coming in here with their cheap shit cars by the 2020s. By then GM will probably be renamed Guangzhou Motors (Bought By Government of China to pay off America's debt) lmao. Japanese cars will be overpriced hunks of energy wasting metal with shitty build quality, kind of like how Americna cars are Today. The Germans will be European Domestic Market Only cars after being forced to leave the US due to shit sales. The Koreans will be the New Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Infinti, Lexus(I say Infinti becuase they are a superior luxury car However.) The Chinese and Indians by then will have stepped their Build Quality up a lot. However just like Hyundai/Kia today, they will have to convince the public of that.

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Denali - 3/12/2008 12:22:10 AM

+1 Boost

they had there chances to rebadge this before the super bowl, to late, its not a bad thing either, new age, new buyers, good 4 hyundai... just like there commercials "ahh yes the hyundai genesis, more spacious then a MB s-class" classic hyundai LMAO "where not sure what USA today will say about this ad but where pretty sure MB, Bmw and lexus arent gonna like it very much LMFAO, im sure too

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