13 Votes

Boost it!

Is 8 Enough? Transmissions Meet the Need for Speeds

PlanoA4 submitted on 9/11/2006 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 4:14:38 PM

31 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: www.nytimes.com

AMONG the technology features that will distinguish the 2007 Lexus LS 460 when it goes on sale next month is an eight-speed automatic transmission.

An industry first, the Lexus gearbox will top the mere seven speeds offered on certain Mercedes-Benz and BMW models — even the $1.2 million Bugatti Veyron — and handily outclass the four-, five- and six-speed transmissions in widespread use today.

Is there a need for so many speeds? If so, is it a need based on engineering or on marketing?

A little of both, actually: Officially, Lexus says that eight ratios were necessary to meet its goals for acceleration and fuel economy. Sure enough, specifications released by the company confirm that the new car is quicker than its predecessor and uses less fuel, even though it weighs more.

As for marketing, the chief engineer of the LS 460, Satoru Maruyamano, told Automotive News, a trade publication, that Lexus wanted to be the first with eight speeds.


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Is 8 Enough? Transmissions Meet the Need for Speeds

About the Author

PlanoA4

Vorsprung durch Technik

— PlanoA4 (View Profile)


User Comments

BMW530i

If it is light weight and truly does aid performance and fuel economy, then let it be.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2006 4:23:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

matt635

hmmm...

The MAN TGA has a 12 speed auto box... maybe if lexus fitted this gearbox they'd get even better performance and economy.

...

to save you googling it.. it's a lorry

— matt635 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2006 4:44:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1995e34

8 speed works in automatics as long as it's smooth shifting, but a manual-shifter with 8 speeds will make for a sore arm. i can only imagine how much more it will cost in a couple of years to rebuild these trannys.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2006 4:52:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

AlexTx

The only difference is that the Bugatti has....DSG!!

— AlexTx (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2006 4:59:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Rupert

will, i wouldn't say 7 speeds is good. imo it is too many. 5 speeds seemed enough to me, but 6 is fine. if you really need more than 6, get a cvt. it would be lighter, surely? just people are scared by them.

remember the days of the gm 2 speed hydramatic? i don't, i'm not 60 ;)

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2006 5:03:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

S4cabriofox

If you need more than six, get a DSG! Fastest-shifting automatic transmission on the market!

The major flaw with this one is that, like we read, where the LS460 ran 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds, the first gear is too tall. Why do they need a tall first gear if they have eight speeds?

Lexus overestimated their acceleration times, in a nutshell.

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2006 6:34:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

answer

The new Tesla roadster only has two speeds.

As long as the car is desgined properly, 1 gear or 100 gears doesn't really matter. Just make sure they work!

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2006 6:43:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

wwww

i think it's more of a marketing gimmick than its intended functional purpose. If they were to design something so radical and new and class leading, they should have announce it before mercedes' 7speed or bmw's.

now it seems like a marketing strategy to out do the germans

— wwww (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2006 8:35:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

S4cabriofox

wwww-

Does BMW have a seven-speed? I remember the M5/M6's SMG having seven speeds, unless I'm making that up, because it wasn't at all publicized. BMW didn't make the seven-speed first, Mercedes did, so there's no need in mentioning BMW.

Seven speeds was borderline obnoxious, but eight speeds is just too much, especially with that tall first gear... Will, get ready for some slow launches in your new 460...

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 9/11/2006 9:39:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

kart1

I guess when a German make does something it is great, but when the greatest threat does something, i.e. Lexus, then it sucks because it is Lexus. This is the philosophy of German auto fans. Well anyway, like saying this will make a difference in biased people's minds.

So I guess in-dash cd changers suck because MB & BMW don't have it right? Yeah it is really great that the driver has to the trunk to change the cd's.

— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/12/2006 12:07:38 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

huu76

8 is too many only if it didn't come out of Germany. I think more gears has more to do with fuel efficiency while still being able to tow heavy loads.

As good as CVT is, I wouldn't trust it to haul a boat around.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/12/2006 12:41:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Matthew1

Oh, and I guess the LS will be primarily used for towing...

— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/12/2006 3:04:11 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

huu76

I've seen an S-class come out of home depot with lumber sticking out of the front passenger window. I've also seen X5's (weaker engine) towing trailers around. If the engine can handle it (maybe even if it can't), I'm not ruling out what somebody is going to do with their vehicle.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/12/2006 11:57:07 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Rupert

towing isn't very important in europe.
the sea is always close enough.
i don't think towing is a huge consideration for our market.
america, of course, may be different.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 9/12/2006 2:22:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

S4cabriofox

Will, read what I said:

"Seven speeds was borderline obnoxious, but eight speeds is just too much, especially with that tall first gear... Will, get ready for some slow launches in your new 460..."

I never thought that the 7-Speed in the S-Class was great, but it at least helps performance a bit. But since the 8-Speed Lexus transmission is oddly ratioed, their cars are actually slower with it than the six-speed they have now.

And I can drag BMWs (and beat them) pretty easily with my six-speed in Sport Mode.

— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 9/12/2006 6:59:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

huu76

That's not saying much. A Toyota Sienna can drag and beat most BMWs.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/12/2006 9:43:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

BMW530i

You guys actually believe people are going to buy the LS to tow? That's certainly not why I'm buying it.
--------------------------------------------

I've seen S-Classes in Europe being used to tow stuff. Heck, I even saw an old SL from the early 1990s towing a mobile home!

In the US though, "towing luxury cars" would never fly.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 9/13/2006 8:06:18 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1995e34

a mercedes sl towing a mobile home? isthat possible? i'd like to see a picture. or perhaps that's one i don't want to see. maybe that person should get arrested and have a public caning.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/13/2006 8:22:52 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

huu76

A Grand Marquis can tow a mobile home, Ford even advertised it in their brochures. A high torque V8 can pull anything, it depends if the rest of the car can handle it.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/13/2006 12:29:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1995e34

ESPECIALLY the transmission

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/13/2006 4:47:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

huu76

Hence I wouldn't trust a chain CVT to do towing. Having a reinforced police cruiser chassis helps too.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/14/2006 6:58:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1995e34

yeah, nothing like a car built on a truck frame. is ford the last to offer a ladder frame under a car? everything else is unibody now right?

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/14/2006 8:42:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

huu76

The CrownVics were designed to be police cars first, civilian cars second.

It's been good enough for the last 20 years. I think the CrownVic/GrandMarquis have one of the highest % of repeat buyers. You go with what works.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/15/2006 1:12:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1995e34

huu76, i wasn't slamming the domestics. i think their kinda fossils, but at the same time, they are tough as nails. they have so many repeat buyers partly due to no caprice anymore.

growing up, my family always had full-size gm sedans. what boats. but their transmissions were tough enough for rolls royce and even ferrari to use at given times.

i almost crapped myself when i heard gm would stop producing the caprice. that's like benz ceasing production of the s-class. it was unthinkable. but 10 years later, cops are surely still missing them. they could maintain production of the same caprice on law/taxi/rental sales for ANOTHER ten years too.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/15/2006 11:17:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

huu76

Yeah, I read your comment wrong. Point taken.

Apparently the Caprice is coming back. I don't think it'll follow the same engineering philosophy of the original though, so probably won't be as durable.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/16/2006 1:12:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1995e34

i look foward to seeing what they put the caprice name on. as long as it's rwd, theyre on the right track

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/16/2006 1:52:35 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

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