Is 8 Speeds really too much? no, not really, says lexus...and now BMW

LexusKindaGuy12 submitted on 04/14/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 9:02 PM
from: www.bimmerfile.com

Tags: lexus

lexus

Is 8 Speeds really too much? no, not really, says lexus...and now BMW

We were all happy with the 6 speed transmissions that appeared a few years back for performance and efficiency. Then MB released a 7 speed auto making the 6 speed look obsolete and BMW driver’s green with envy. This past year Lexus toted they had the worlds first 8 speed auto. This was an interesting development as BMW did not even have a 7 speed. The 8 speed Lexus offering is only available in the land yacht sized LS because it too (like the LS) is a bit too large for other models in the brand’s line up. With the introduction of the next generation 7 series BMW will launch its first 8 speed gearbox.

In order to keep up with the Jones’ BMW has had to think a bit outside the box. Our sources indicate that the transmission BMW will utilize takes up the same amount of space as the current 6 speeds and will not use additional components. This has been made possible by a completely new transmission concept. We have learned that it utilizes four planetary gear sets and five transmission clutches. Two transmission clutches are unlocked per gear, thus resulting in greater efficiency and a higher overall transmission ratio.

It is touted as being smoother and will reduce fuel consumption by almost six percent; way to go Efficient Dynamics! Since it is the same size as the current 6 speeds, a larger hump or other invasions into the passenger cabin space is not necessary. The gear selector will also return to the console from its previous stalk location; a well welcomed change for many. BMW had explored other options but testing indicated that an 8 speed is the most efficient form of transmission because of the optimal use of gear ratios, weight and size. 9 and 10 speeds boxes actually showed a decrease in efficiency and additional size constraints.

This transmission is modular in design so it can be used in various applications. This will make it available for use in Hybrids and X-Drive vehicles, which the 7 Series will feature. This transmission should be available in all varieties that BMW will offer the 7 series in, allowing BMW to reduce costs associated with different drive-train combinations.

This transmission will make its debut in the F01 7 series to be followed later by the F10 5er.

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Notjustlex - 4/15/2008 10:32:32 AM

+8 Boost

That a boy BMW copy Lexus.

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Kraut_god - 4/15/2008 1:18:19 PM

+3 Boost

krauts copying the japanese again.

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farabira1 - 4/16/2008 4:57:09 AM

+1 Boost

Now what do you BMW fanboys have to say about that. You guys have been saying all along that 8 speed manual is just too many gears, but now that BMW will copy Lexus and introduce their own 8 speed manual, i am sure you guys will say it's brilliant and very much needed. What hypocrites.

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Porschinator - 4/14/2008 11:57:15 PM

+7 Boost

I cannot imagine having more than 8 SPs in anything besides a Semi-Truck. The 8 SP will most likely be an option in all of Lexus's top of the line versions of most models. With BMW joining the fun I wonder how it will compare.

Interestign to see the Germans follow the Japanese on this one and I am sure it was hard to swallow. Then again competition create innovation and hopefully we the consumers win in the end.

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kthor - 4/15/2008 1:15:14 AM

-2 Boost

It's completely new transmission concept. It uses four planetary gear sets and five transmission clutches.... And it isn't any bigger than the 6 speed it replaces unlike the Japanese 8 speed tranny.

kthor - 4/15/2008 4:21:01 AM

-5 Boost

Zero, your link is about a Camry, nice try. Anyway, I mentioned the size of the transmission, not the weight, so even if you had a real link about weight it would have been irrelevant.

Agent009 - 4/15/2008 9:51:56 AMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

At some point there will be a tradeoff of shift lag vs the number of gears.

@ 150ms per shift which is what Lexus claims there are 7 shifts total. with the current gearing probably 4 shifts (maybe 3) in the quarter mile that could add up to be one more shift over the distance.

All things being equal the Lexus will lose roughly .2 secs in the quarter.

Not much, but a difference of a car length which in the case of a LS is negligible. But in the IS-F is a lot.

Depends on your viewpoint.

Porschinator - 4/15/2008 4:33:18 PM

+1 Boost

I hear yall but anything over 5SP is over drive gears no matter how fancy the tranny is. In theory the new two mode hybrid that GM, BMW, and MB developed has limitless gearing but two mechanical gears for low and reverse. So way more potential than 8SP tranny. The limit with 8SP is that it will never come out as a Manual; only paddle shifting or auto.

Personally I do not care about all of the "firsts". As long as the cars being sold are solid and reliable. Firsts are typically just for marketing.

For BMW to One-Up Lexus their 8SP must shift as fast or faster than Lexus 8SP.

Ironman273 - 4/16/2008 12:42:21 PM

+2 Boost

Actually, you're wrong. The Lexus 8 speed transmission is actually a little smaller than the 6 speed it replaces.

BozzorTheGreat - 4/15/2008 12:02:20 AM

-5 Boost

Kudos to BMW: whilst I would like to see some more detailed engineering specs, it does seem as if BMW have acheived a major transmission engineering breakthrough at a level not unlike the VW group's introduction of DSG. BMW should be applauded.

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S4cabriofoxone - 4/15/2008 12:15:20 AMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

I'm just not feeling it. I can imagine it just being too much for some of these cars.

A seven-speed DSG like the one going in the M3, A4, Q5 and more would be much more useful.

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S4cabriofoxone - 4/15/2008 12:16:20 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Oh, I just saw this:

"We have learned that it utilizes four planetary gear sets and five transmission clutches. Two transmission clutches are unlocked per gear, thus resulting in greater efficiency and a higher overall transmission ratio."

Sounds like DSG to me.

But an EIGHT-speed DSG? Wow. That would be ridiculously quick.

JRobUSC - 4/15/2008 11:07:59 AM

-1 Boost

The 8-speed is still going to use a torque convertor I'm sure, so it's not really a DSG-style transmission, just a very fast shifting automatic. Personally I wish BMW would just come out with a non-M version of the 7-speed M-DCT and adapt it to the rest of the lineup and drop the traditional, power robbing automatics altogether. I'm guessing though there's an issue with the DCT's supporting the (more than likely underrated) 450lb-ft of torque the new twin turbo V8 X5, X6, 550i, and 7-Series are going to be making.

EL34 - 4/15/2008 1:09:28 AM

-13 Boost

8 speeds in a BMW makes sense not so much in a Lexus.

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realist0000 - 4/15/2008 2:16:40 AM

+15 Boost

8 speeds in a Lexus make sense not so much in a BMW.

_43LE - 4/15/2008 9:48:04 AM

+8 Boost

LOL, that was the exact comment from EL34 that I was waiting for! too funny! He's the epitome of hypocrisy along with many others on this site.

Vendetta - 4/15/2008 10:41:38 AM

+1 Boost

9 speeds makes sense on a Lexus, 2 speeds make sense on BMW.

silver1 - 4/15/2008 3:56:18 PM

+2 Boost

LOL!

silver1 - 4/15/2008 3:56:19 PM

+2 Boost

LOL!

fatboi - 4/15/2008 3:24:03 AM

+5 Boost

the infiniti g35 coupe got an eight speed peddle shifting transmission in japan , I've seen a picture on nissans japanese website shows " 8 " but unfortunaly i cant read japanese .

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MaindrianPace - 4/15/2008 3:50:48 AM

0 Boost

Not entirely sure I see the point in this. More shifts and narrower rev ranges can't really make for smoother progress? Unless of course it's got like a 250mph top end or something... which it won't have.

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Czelinski - 4/15/2008 4:27:05 AM

-2 Boost

"The Lexus's 8-speed is actually lighter than the 5-speed auto, thanks to the use of aluminum ring gears and clutches."

And when placed in a heavy rip off hybrid, oh i don't know. Say like the LS600h, this makes all the difference to fuel economy and general weight of the vehicle doesn't it?

Also, i recall reading about 2 years ago in an interview with a chief engineer on the LS, i think it was in the U.K magazine Autocar. That they also wanted to play the number game with MB.

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LexusKindaGuy12 - 4/15/2008 12:45:10 PM

-1 Boost

the hybrid does not use an auto transmission, it uses a dual stage CVT, so it has infinite gears

ChicaneShooter - 4/15/2008 4:41:42 AM

+7 Boost

why is more speeds "useless" and/or "excessive" when used in a japanese vehicle, but "brilliant" in a german one?

oh yeah, autospies is the stomping ground primarily of german fanbois.

within reason, more speeds are ALWAYS better.

with the tundra, it allows for a wider RANGE of gearing. which makes the 5.7 engined models both FASTER than the competition, AND MORE ECONOMICAL at cruising speed. the same is applicable in the LS and other Lexi.

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MunichRob - 4/15/2008 6:25:09 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

This is one move I'd prefer BMW not to make...

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Notjustlex - 4/15/2008 10:38:14 AM

+4 Boost

If you can't beat'em, join'em.

silver1 - 4/15/2008 3:57:54 PM

+2 Boost

LOL! AGREED

Designer1 - 4/15/2008 7:21:13 AM

+9 Boost

Everyone knew the Germen will HAVE to follow Lexus 8 speed transmission. However what's shameful on all the magazine auditors is how they kept complain about 8 speeds are too much and too many changes, etc... But when BMW comes out with its 8 speed they'll praise it.

Also, years back when 5, 6, and 7 speeds came out, NO one absolutely NO one said ANY thing bad about them, but everyone praised it because they first came out of Germany. They ONLY downplayed it when the 8 speeds came out of Japan.

Not a single article related to Lexus is worth a penny, because they are all bias in so many points and do there best to downplay what it great and only seen and felt by the great.

Lexus is all, and anything else is a follower.

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Designer1 - 4/15/2008 7:25:39 AM

+5 Boost

Sorry, I meant to say, comparison article with Lexus in it not worth a penny.

0to60 - 4/15/2008 9:19:20 AM

+2 Boost

I agreed with you up until your last sentence about "Lexus being all, and anything else being a follower"

1995e34 - 4/15/2008 10:43:24 AM

-3 Boost

what an idiot.

bimmer - 4/15/2008 11:54:26 AMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

@Designer1

Unfortunetly "new ideas" from japanese manufaturers are usualy copied and adapted to whatever car they implement it in.

Imagine where we would be this day if the japanese manufacturers turned their focus from industrial spying to an actual research for improvements in their cars.

In this case though, BMW did not just add 2 more gears to an existent transmission and updated its software to switch faster between gears, as Toyota did... As stated in the article, it is a new concept. How can enyone say a new concept is a copied idea ? Just because is having also 8 gears ?!!

Spectator - 4/15/2008 9:51:05 AM

+1 Boost

Row, Row, Row, your boat...

:-)

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1995e34 - 4/15/2008 10:35:24 AM

-2 Boost

it takes true engineering genius to add another gear to a transmission. great job bmw.

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autopro - 4/15/2008 11:31:43 AMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

Watch how many failures BMW has with their first few thousand transmissions.

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silver1 - 4/15/2008 4:00:14 PM

+2 Boost

Well hopefully BMW will be running that no oil change extended warranty bout time the 8-speed is release. Otherwise it's going to be alot of upset customers.

mscottc1 - 4/15/2008 11:36:35 AM

0 Boost

put a manual in it. there! ya happy now?

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0to60 - 4/15/2008 3:12:46 PM

+1 Boost

Agreed!

Yonder7 - 4/15/2008 1:50:53 PM

+4 Boost

I like Bimmers more than Lexus but, If have to bet my head, Lexus trans will be more reliable.

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TheBoss - 4/15/2008 2:45:15 PM

+2 Boost

It's going to be hailed as the ultimate TRANNY and called SHIFTING DYNAMIC, BMW has patented the word DYNAMIC and ULTIMATE. All journalist and dumb fanboys will now be using these words as if god meant it.

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bmwfan1513 - 4/15/2008 4:07:09 PM

-1 Boost

6 gears is enough. 8 is too much. 7 is okay.

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answer - 4/15/2008 4:20:20 PM

+1 Boost

Those who always spout off about the Germans being the source for all automotive "firsts" should be eating crow about now.

Likewise, Lexus fans who hate the brand being labeled a "follower" or "copycat" should shut their ass, and show the respect to BMW fans they'd like to be shown themselves in the future.

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Star - 4/15/2008 8:49:37 PM

-1 Boost

^^^^what ignorance...
Where do you suppose to go from a 7 speed transmission???? Is number eight a Lexus invention? LOL...

Let's make it clear, Lexus contribution to automotive progress equals a big ZERO. The Japanese never did anything else but copy available technology and sometime make slight changes(add a gear) in order to fake originality.

In absolutely every segment there is a German car that tops everything else. You can argue all day about Japanese cars offering 90% of what German cars offer for less money. Who cares? Is not all there.
A real car enthusiast can only be satisfied with 100% percent, and 100% percent is MADE IN GERMANY when it comes to cars.

answer - 4/15/2008 10:15:02 PM

+2 Boost

Only a biased ass could have responded to my comment the way you did.

Why the fudge (Christmas Story :)) do you people refuse to think that it is possible for Germany and Japan to both make truly great cars?

I love when people like you call yourself an enthusiast but don't know jack squat about cars.

I guess it is easier for people who aren't very intelligent to think only in their little world.

You sir are an ostrich. Congrats to you for being able to post while your head is fully buried in the sand.

ChicaneShooter - 4/16/2008 3:33:23 AM

+3 Boost

he's not just your ordinary "biased ass," he is the one and only "brown star."

Htay7500 - 4/16/2008 5:41:16 PM

+1 Boost

"A real car enthusiast can only be satisfied with 100% percent, and 100% percent is MADE IN GERMANY when it comes to cars."

a car enthusiast doesn't praise on where a car is from, thats just biased and narrow-mindedness. its how well engineered and the way it performs. sometimes german magazines give their respect and honor to other makers when it scores above its homeland competitors. germany makes great cars, but that respect also should be given to those from japan and america.

huu76 - 4/15/2008 9:51:00 PM

-2 Boost

Star,
Me too, me too!

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evilm - 4/16/2008 7:44:01 AM

-1 Boost

Lexus needs 8 speeds because their motors are gutless.Everybody says the gear box is the IS Fs biggest downfall.

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autopro - 4/19/2008 3:23:02 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Who's everybody?You and your butt buddy?

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