73 Votes

Is Acura TOO Far Gone To Make A Comeback?

Agent001 submitted on 2/10/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 1:59:00 PM

108 user comments | Category: Spy News | Source: www.autospies.com

Tag Links: 2008 Chicago Auto Show, Acura, TL, RL

Obviously, it's not the best of times over at Acura these days.

A once great brand has somehow virtually put themselves on the edge of irrelevance.

So much speculation to why it's happened...no rear-wheel drive, no V8, too small, poor designs, etc., etc, etc.

And after seeing the 09' RL our outlook for them is not strong.

Even the guys who run a popular Acura site (which will go un-named for confidentiality reasons here) told me in Chicago these guys are as close to toast as you can get.

Is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

Well, one of their anonymous executives in Chicago said by the end of this year when we see all these new models out (like the new RL, TEX, etc.), Acura will be back at the top of the heap of great car designs.

Do you believe him?

Or are they too far gone to make a comeback and have they become the Jaguar of the Asian brands?

2008 Chicago Auto Show Photo Gallery

Is Acura TOO Far Gone To Make A Comeback?

About the Author

FWD Torque Steer. Absolute proof the Devil exists.
— Agent001 (View Profile)

User Comments

The "new" RL looks like an Accord with horrible plastic surgery.

The "new" TSX looks like an Accord only smaller and more expensive.

The "new" TL will probably look like an Accord on drugs.

This is the problem. Acura offers nothing you cant get on a Honda. There is nothing "ADVANCED" about them at all.
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 2:13:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 17

Chip, that is exactly why Acura is never on my shopping list. Lexus is also not on my shopping list for mostly the same reasons (equivalent Toyota models offer far better value).

I wish the marketing guys in the industry would stop staying up all night trying to figure out underhanded ways to get us consumers to part with more of our money.

If an auto maker has the capability to offer a slightly better style or mechanical advantage then give it to us on Hondas and Toyotas instead of deliberately withholding the good stuff unless we opt for an overpriced "premium brand". It's just another form of blackmail marketing.
— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 3:16:17 PM | | Votes: 6

"Lexus is also not on my shopping list for mostly the same reasons (equivalent Toyota models offer far better value). "

Yeah, I know what you mean. The self-parking feature on the Corolla is way better than the one on the LS. And the Pre-Collision System on the GS, IS, LS, and LX is dismal compared to the one on the RAV4. And that reclining back seat with the Shiatsu Massager on the LS isn't near as good as the one on the Avalon. So yeah, Lexus has nothing you can't already get with a Toyota.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 3:39:03 PM | | Votes: -3

wheres the "nsx"
— pacotacolol (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 7:48:55 PM | | Votes: 3

Look at the bare bones, guys. Toyota gives you high-quality interior materials, very similar engine choices, the same comfortable suspensions, reliability and even Lexus-like style. I understand what he means.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 9:34:46 PM | | Votes: -1

Funny, the same can be said about Volkswagen/Audi. The Phaeton and A8 are very similar. They have similar options, similar engine choices, and they even look somewhat similar.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 9:57:01 PM | | Votes: 3

...and now I'm getting deboosted. People are so hypocritical. A Lexus can be a Toyota, but heaven forbid someone point out the similarities between Volkswagen and Audi.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 10:22:11 PM | | Votes: 4

That's true, but the Phaeton and A8 are in the same class. That could be said about any two sedans in the luxobarge class.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 12:59:40 PM | | Votes: -2

They're in the same class, yes, but they're also virtually the same
vehicle. Compare their specs side by side if you need to.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 1:53:56 PM | | Votes: 2

"I understand what he means."
Really? You understand what he means? This coming from an audi owner. Last i checked Audi had more similarities with VW than Toyota and Lexus did.

"Lexus is also not on my shopping list for mostly the same reasons (equivalent Toyota models offer far better value)."
I can honestly confirm that you have never in you entire life ever sat inside a Lexus let alone drive one.
— zorbeeze (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 1:59:11 PM | | Votes: 4

EnnNorak, if you believe a reclining seat is what defines an automobile perhaps you embody the traits the marketing folks look for in developing new Lexus bells and whistles.
— macbjg (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 3:19:12 PM | | Votes: 0

"Last i checked Audi had more similarities with VW than Toyota and Lexus did."

Oh, is that true?

Sorry, but you checked wrong. Of all the engines available in the US, Audi only shares two engines with VW, the 2.0T and the 3.2VR6.

Lexus also shares two engines with Toyota, but keep in mind that the 3.5L and 5.7L (the Toyota engines) are used in the bulk of the lineup (IS350, ES350, RX350, LX570), while Audi's 2.0T is only used in three models (A3, A4, TT), and the 3.2VR6 is used in two (A3 and TT).

There is only one Audi based directly on a VW platform, that being the A3. However, the A3 is based on the GTI, which is hardly a limitation. I wouldn't have bought one if it wasn't deemed upmarket enough. The TT is also related to the GTI, but its platform is dramatically different, being made of 60% aluminum. The Q7 is more related to the Cayenne than the Touareg, but not directly linked to either, because it was stretched to fit a third row.

Lexus has a total of four models based on Toyotas, and the only one that isn't on a direct Toyota platform is the RX. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but I'm just pointing out the facts. It's true.

Audi develops the bulk of VWAG's high-tech engines and transmissions. Lexus does not.

Audi has its own engineers and even its own branch of the company (Lamborghini). Lexus does not.

Should I go on?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 12:35:00 AM | | Votes: -2

I forgot, Lexus shares three engines with Toyota (4.7L in GX is in the 4Runner).
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 12:35:40 AM | | Votes: -3

Is Acura too far gone???? Acura is second only to Lexus in sales (Japanese luxury). Infiniti is by far the dog of the market. No one talks about that... When you look at the entire luxury market, Acura is only out sold by BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Caddy. One ugly design and you people lose your minds. Yes the RL sucks, but it is being replaced in 15mths. The new TL will have AWD, and there will be two new diesel motors. Too far gone...you need to take a min. and look at the facts.
By a BMW, Mercedes, Caddy, and get ready to know your service director on a first name basis!
— Whatthe (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 10:51:33 AM | | Votes: 0

"By a BMW, Mercedes, Caddy, and get ready to know your service director on a first name basis!"

That is a bunch of BS. Only tools actually believe that. Yes they are not as reliable but to say you'll be visiting the dealer every week for repairs or even every month is ridiculous.

And to S4 cabrio you have no clue what parts sharing is. I suggest you fly over to Germany and speak with all the VWAG engineers.
— zorbeeze (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 1:34:26 PM | | Votes: -2

Who said weekly or monthly? Tool, that hurts. you need to read better. German cars not only fail more often, they also cost more to repair. Therefore, knowing your service director, maybe you get a break on that service bill.
Yes BMW has "free" service for the first 4 years, why do you think they cost so much!
— Whatthe (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 2:03:15 PM | | Votes: 0

"And to S4 cabrio you have no clue what parts sharing is. I suggest you fly over to Germany and speak with all the VWAG engineers."

Feel free to enlighten me, oh wise one.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 8:47:25 PM | | Votes: -1

"Infiniti is by far the dog of the market."

That's because Infiniti was NOWHERE as little as six years ago. They had a formerly pathetic product lineup. They're already doing better than Audi is in the US, which is a major achievement. I don't know why Audi moves so slowly here while they're so fast to grow in other parts of the world.

Furthermore, Infiniti has been flat for the last few months. Compare that to Lexus (down 8% in January) and Acura (shooting down in double digits at a frightening rate), and they're looking pretty damn good. The EX will only make them do better... unless the potential buyers don't look at the back seat!
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 8:49:32 PM | | Votes: -1

Well, they certainly tried to prepare us with the Acura Advanced Sedan Concept, and I'm sure that many of us felt that the Very Poor Reception that vehicle received would have been enough to send a message to their designers that - NO, This Is Not The Way To Go!

Unfortunately, Honda/Acura seldom Heads The Warning in these matters, and does what They Want To Do, regardless of what the market indicates (think Ridgeline and Element).

This time they'll (probably) pay dearly for their arrogance, especially when the 2009 Acura TL rears it's AASC-Inspired Face.

We'll See Soon enough...
— DaHarder (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 2:19:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9

Chip, it's probably not the smartest idea to base all of your opinion of an entire car company on styling.

Acura has plenty of technology and luxury that isn't available on Hondas. The competitive edge that Acura is missing (the V-8, RWD though their SH-AWD system is very effective) are not available on Hondas.

Honda's/Acura's problem has always been trying to march the beat of their own drum, without meeting the competition head-on. How long did the Accord go without a V-6 while all the other competitors offered it? Finally Honda caved and it's been a hallmark of their lineup ever since.

— senorgato (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 2:25:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

"It's probably not the smartest idea to base all of your opinion of an entire car company on styling."

Those are your words, not mine. However, are you saying style isnt an important factor, because I certainly disagree. No one wants a car thats "Advanced" but "Ugly" too,

My point is that all their cars look like Honda's and the goodies that made Acura desireable (potent V6's, Great Navigation systems, luxurious interiors etc) have trickled down to Honda.
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 2:33:47 PM | | Votes: 5

The entire industry has trickle-down goodies and not all of these goodies are worth getting. I especially hate sunroofs and NAV systems -- these items should always be stand-alone options instead of being packaged with more desirable options at far more than fair aggregate value.

As for the AWD system used by Honda and Acura, I simply cannot understand why this system has front and rear axels deliberately turning at different speeds with the speed difference being accommodated by constantly slipping clutches that also constantly wear out.
— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 3:24:35 PM | | Votes: -6

Not only is it difficult for me to get in and out of the NSX but I am annoyed at Honda for having introduced it originally with an inherently-out-of-balance 90-degree V6. I can only hope that the next NSX will have a 90-degree V8.
— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 3:28:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Acura has just refused to come out with anything edgy for too long. They are way too conservative. The TSX and the TL just get forgotten behind similarly priced but more noticeable competitors. Unless they start mixing up designs, i dont understand how the TL is supposed to compete with the G, the 3, the C, the CTS, etc. Its just getting left behind in the most competitive luxury segment. It's gonna need some new and drastic eye catching improvements to have any shot at saving itself.
— sholemon (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 3:05:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

001, did you notice that in your previous post questioning whether the new RL was a stud or dud, out of the 100+ comments, 99% said DUD in capital letters.

Is anyone going to buy this car?

Anyone? Anyone? Anyone?

— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 3:10:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

people who don't know much about cars and diehard honda/acura fans and ... well nobody else lol
— zairnaim (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 3:18:00 PM | | Votes: 5

i think i was the only one who didnt say the RL will be a dud
— KZ258 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 4:44:15 PM | | Votes: -2

Well zairn, I'm a big honda/acura fan and I would NOT buy the RL...unless perhaps they had a $299/mo lease. Based on the looks, reviews, comments, for the RL that may not be too far off as Acura sees them pile up on their dealer lots.
— cktoo (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 1:37:08 PM | | Votes: 3

This further proves you are an idiot.
World class handling??
The TL is a FWD car based off of the Honda Accord.
The Lexus IS, especially the 250, lost pretty much all of the comparison tests done with the BMW 3 series and the Infiniti G35.
So shut up. You're just a kid. Stay focused on school.
— audirevolution (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 3:39:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10

@ JoshLexus4Ever,

Someday, and hopefully soon, you will realize that blind faith is detrimental to all mankind.
— Bored (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 4:50:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 11

do love lexus because your mom drove an RX since you were 5?
— sholemon (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 5:36:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

STAY IN SCHOOL!!!! You need to...
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 9:52:17 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

The TL is not AWD....and if it was, that may help it a little. I love your use of "despite" as if AWD is a handicap. Im sure everyone on this site would rather have AWD than FWD.

The TL only sells in America......not the whole WORLD.

The TL has not so great handling....ever heard of torque steer?

— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 3:28:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Correction:

The TL only sells in America......not the whole WORLD

I forgot they sell it in China in limited numbers too.
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 3:35:01 PM | | Votes: 1

Actually, the TL is a very good handler for a FWD car. Read any review of the car vs the 3, IS, G, etc. and the writer will 9 times out of 10, say that, especially if it's the TL-S. Furthermore, most of the "torque steer" complaints aren't the result of that at all, it's the over compensation of the LSD that drivers are feeling. Nevertheless, I do agree a proper RWD car is a better handler, although not always a good choice in bad weather states. That's why the TL traditional sells very well there, even for a 5 year old design.
— cktoo (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 1:51:18 PM | | Votes: 0

A refresh is all the #1 selling car 4 out of the last 6 years needs. The TL with it's square rear leds still looks as new as this year car designs is 5 yeras old.
— mikeydred20 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 9:01:31 PM | | Votes: -1

Canada and Mexico also atleast you can't say it's a rebadge!
— mikeydred20 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 9:04:06 PM | | Votes: -1

"A refresh is all the #1 selling car 4 out of the last 6 years needs"

What Acura car ha been the #1 selling car 4 out of the last 6 years?

What Acura needs:
1-RWD & AWD, FWD is for soccer moms, they got the FWD part covered even though i really hate their SH-AWD socalled system
2-V8, their V6 are good, now they need to up the ante
3-better designs
4-a halo car, and not only a new NSX but a 7series/Sclass/LS competitor
5-independance from Honda
— zorbeeze (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 1:41:45 PM | | Votes: 0

i FULLY AGREE.

i have NEVER CARED for jumbled alphabet soup spoonfuls replacing REAL NAMES.

truly GOOD cars with alphanumeric names become known DESPITE the labels, not because of them. as for mediocre cars, who'd EVEN BOTHER to learn meaningless letter juxtapositions?

i predict Lincoln, going down the same road, will also see their products becoming even MORE forgettable.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 4:32:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Well, Acura is certainly a hot mess these days...but I wouldn't count them out just yet. While sales have been sliding they still sell a considerable amount. I don't expect them to reach Tier 1 status in 5 years (even after the 09TL/09TSX/09RL are all replaced with new generation models) like their marketing spin doctors have stated. But I see them doing more of the same...good sales when full model makeover cars are introduced, a slight increase in interest during a minor model make over (the 09RL is ugly indeed, but there is buzz about the car now, even though it's negative) and very poor sales as these cars reach the end of their model cycles.

I think this is where most German brands have an advantage, people will buy them a year, a month, a day before they are replaced with a new model just to get a good deal and buy into the prestige of having one. German brands also tend to carry over their design language or change them very subtly constantly so as to keep up the brand image - a good strategy in building brand value.

We also have to remember that Acura/Lexus/Infinti were created in the '80's using a very different logic in the market place. It is very possible if they introduced these luxury level cars now they would not need a second luxury division to 'dupe' buyers into buying tarted up versions of mainstream cars. Look at Hyundai and the Genesis - selling under their own nameplate.
— IhavearedS2000 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 4:09:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

"...very possible if they introduced these luxury level cars now they would not need a second luxury division to 'dupe' buyers into buying tarted up versions of mainstream cars. Look at Hyundai and the Genesis - selling under their own nameplate."

i DO NOT agree. look at what a flop the vw phaeton was! you think anyone is going to buy a $70,000 VOLKSWAGEN?

the hyundai genesis has only just been introduced. it's too early to say whether or not it will be a success. and even if it is, you can pay $40-$50k for mere fords and chevys too (in the case of loaded and bloated suvs and crew cab pickups).

i very much doubt hyundai can break the $50-60k level without a new nameplate.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 4:44:16 AM | | Votes: 1

if anything, i think Acura's biggest failing is in NOT HAVING a sedan that's HIGH ENOUGH up there in performance and prestige. just adding wood and leather and sound insulation and fancy electronics DO NOT make a true luxury car.

ultimately, if a maker cannot MEET THE ANTE of a v8, it cannot play in the game of recognized TRUE luxury nameplates.

i fully understand Honda/Acura's view that they can tweak a v6 sufficiently and they don't NEED a v8.

but people in the market for a luxury car always want the knowledge their BRAND competes with the best, AT THE TOP. even when they just get an entry model.
(if not for the mere existence of a v8 LS-series, there likely would not have been as many ESs sold. ditto the Q and M/former I series in the Infiniti line.)
(would FOUR-cylinder benzes and bmws be even salable, if not for the existence and reputation of the 6 and 8 cylinder models?)

Honda/Acura have brilliant engineers. but they need more savvy MARKETING people. (and bolder stylists would help too.)

Acura DESPARATELY NEEDS a v8 flagship.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 5:10:51 AM | | Votes: 1

"But now too many people drive it (Acura), so practically I don't think it can be called 'luxury car' anymore"...

Hmmm? That's Some Seriously FAULTY LOGIC There...

Taking your comment at Face Value, your belief is that ANY vehicle that has achieved a certain degree of sales success i.e. BMW 3,5,7/Mercedes C,E,S,SL,CLK/Audi A4/A6/A8 et al can no longer be considered True Luxury Makes due to their sales success.

You Do Realize How Absolutely Inane That Sounds, Yes?
— DaHarder (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 6:02:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 11

That's ridiculous logic.

I'm sure there are 10X more used BMWs sold than used Acuras. Similarly, BMW has very competitive (=cheap) lease rates. Does that stop it from being a luxury brand?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 9:39:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

"What is real ridiculous is that you don't even know how much the new Acuras even cost."

Yes i do, a brand new Acura TL starts at 33275$ and a new 328 starts at 32400$. And as far as lease deals go BMW is most probably even cheaper.
— zorbeeze (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 1:54:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

"Well, one of their anonymous executives in Chicago said by the end of this year when we see all these new models out (like the new RL, TEX, etc.), Acura will be back at the top of the heap of great car designs."

Well whoever these anonymous executives are should all be b*tchslapped and fired immediately! If this is their mindset, then why even bother with the next NSX?

This is so sad. A car from the Chinese manufacturer Chery (...probably not as safe =D) has more character than what Acura is trying to shovel down our throats.
— Bored (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 4:39:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

"Is Acura TOO Far Gone To Make A Comeback?"

All I've got to say about Honda is, Kumbaya!
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 4:46:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

I think there are a lot of reasons why Acura are not doing so well.Marketing is one,styling is another and mechanical differentation is another. Other then the RL Acura the Acura TSX and TL are derivatives of the Honda Accord. In fact on the TL there is very little difference between these vehicles and a Honda Accord mechanically. True Lexus also does this a bit with the LX300 and Camry. However Lexus has enough RWD vehicles and V8 in it's stable to make them different from what you can get in a Camry.Infiniti also has made their models different enough. Acura simply did not go far enough. For starters one way to make them different is to make ALL Acura models AWD. Another is make ALL Acura models available only with V6 engines or a turbo 4 option.So mechanical differences need to happen. Acura made a tacticle mistake by not coming out with a V8 for the RL and optional on the TL. Also there should be more wood and chrome in there interiors.Why is there no Acura luxury Coupe or Convertable? Another bad move. There perhaps should be a RWD Acura version of the Honda S2000 but with a V6 engine to compete with the Z4,TT and Boxster. The S2000 with it's high reving 2.2 does not quite make the grade.
— mini22 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 4:53:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

"True Lexus also does this a bit with the LX300 and Camry"

Huh?

What The Heck is a LX300?
— Boosteroo (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 6:30:16 PM | | Votes: 10

Honda is nice but Acura is horrible.
— bmwfan1513 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 5:39:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Honda is Family friendly, but Acura is not. It is not luxurious or elagant design. Look at the tacky MDX/RDX or RL. The TL is the only good one, but they'll screw that up too. The SH-AWD is way over rated. Also, Acura dealers seem like hacks.
— g2ok (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 7:00:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Acuras are great vehicles. No doubt about that. I really do want to find the reason for their failure. If styling is the problem, then how is Lexus so successful with equally mediocre design? If the lack of V8 engines is the problem, then how come TL's sales are going down, knowing that V8s are not even used in that segment? Why didn't the TSX sold better than 2000-3000 a month, even though its styling was right on? Help me with these questions!
Maybe they need a knockout punch in a specific category like Lexus does; Lexus had the reliability factor nailed in the head, and that helped them get established.
— ashkan (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 7:32:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Hopefully, the new TL will get Acura back on track. For the money, the TL was a great vehicle and offered plenty in the looks department as well.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 7:40:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I agree. People keep comparing the TL to the Accord, but the difference in driving experience between the two is well worth a few thousand dollars over the life of ownership. The TL was a good looking vehicle and a screaming value. Of course Acura is not too far gone to comeback, but a lot (a lot!) will be riding on this next TL.
— finishline (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 7:55:29 PM | | Votes: 0

New TL and TSX will probably help and do fairly well.
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 9:05:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

TYG23 said it best:
"Just a thought. Current Acura TSX and TL models were released in April 2003 and October 2003. They are both being re-designed for 2009 model year. When the TSX was first introduced it was compared to luxury cars costing $7000 more, why, because it had the same content. MBenz boast about new technology on their C class, options like blue tooth and dvd audio. Are you kidding me? Acura offered these items on the 04 TL (standard). Not to mention the first production cars to be equiped with Bluetooth, DVD audio and real time traffic on the most comprehensive and user friendly Navigation System. These sales #s represent a decline for Acura due to old product. 3 years ago the TL was the #1 selling luxury car passing the BMW 3 series and lexus ES. When the new 3 series came out it passed the TL and the ES. It is a round and round circle based upon intoduction of new models."

Acura isn’t dead, they just have old models. The next TSX and TL should quiet all the naysayers (enthusiasts).

As far as handling, here are the times posted by Keiichi Tsuchiya at Willow Springs, CA race track.

1. TL-S 6MT - 1:36:67 sec
2. IS350 - 1:38:24
3. G35 6MT - 1:38:67
— 06TLDude (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 9:10:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Well said haters don't understand, atleast the quality is not dead like a benz or audi poc.
— mikeydred20 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 9:09:32 PM | | Votes: -2

I think Acura problems derive from Honda's corporate culture. Honda's management is so risk adverse that they do not invest in product development enough to compete with the top luxury makes. I am sure Honda can make a car that competes with the Lexus LS (say), but they have to be willing to invest in thing like a RWD platform, V8 engines, better transmissions, all of which so far they considered either unnecessary or too expensive.

Until they behave like a top player (even Hyundai is doing that better these days), Acura would not succeed. But I still think (hope?) they can.
— wac77 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 9:29:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

if acura made all their cars rwd, they would immediately be back in the mix. it's a nauseatingly simple solution.

that would put an end to their platform sharing, though. and they are too conservative to go out and make real rwd cars. too bad, they'd do well...
— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 10:18:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

they are finally being recognized as what thery are, a nice sporty car company in between high-end and mainstream, a step up from honda yes, but no way a lex, or infinit--if you love jap cars....
but they have a ton of gadgets in them too woo over not real performance drives by techies and many californians
— bocabimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 10:37:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

2 words - LEGEND COUPE

Now that was a nice car. Saw one the other day and 15 years later, it still caught my eye. Somebody over at Acura needs to think along those lines again.
— jpit11 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 10:41:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

agreed!

acura really NEEDS a HALO CAR or at the least a very handsome one that will draw in showroom traffic.

the NSX used to fill this function, but has been allowed to get too long in the tooth over the years. plus, while it demonstrated honda could compete with porsches and ferraris, there was no AFFORDABLE sporty model since the Legend Coupe was discontinued.

even at the low end, there has NOT been a memorable replacement for the Integra.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 5:39:46 AM | | Votes: 2

agreed!

acura really NEEDS a HALO CAR or at the least a very handsome one that will draw in showroom traffic.

the NSX used to fill this function, but has been allowed to get too long in the tooth over the years. plus, while it demonstrated honda could compete with porsches and ferraris, there was no AFFORDABLE sporty model since the Legend Coupe was discontinued.

even at the low end, there has NOT been a memorable replacement for the Integra.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 5:39:50 AM | | Votes: 1

I think it's perfectly OK that Honda/Acura is doing 6 cylinder and refusing to go V8s. It's nice they came up with 300BHP V6. Now it would be great if they contineou making more and more 6 cylindrs like V6 Turbo or also possibly I6 Turbo.

after all they always were 'CHANGING RULES'(that's one of Honda's slogan here in Middle East along with POWER OF DREAMS)

"The TL only sells in America......not the whole WORLD

I forgot they sell it in China in limited numbers too."

TL is European Accord right? Now that car(badged as Honda Accord there) is very popular in Asian countries like China, India and neighbouring countries...etc. It sells even better than the American/Middle East Accord.

I Know it's quite old but it still looks great today and costs reasonably well.

I have seen quite a few imported ones here in Middle East too.

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 11:01:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

"TL is European Accord right?"

No, that would be the TSX.

TSX:

http://www.analogstereo.com/images/om/acura_tsx.jpg

TL:

http://www.autobytel.com/images/2007/Acura/TL/400/07_Acura_TL_10.jpg

Both are attractive, and far better looking than the new RL.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 11:17:41 PM | | Votes: 3

"It sells even better than the American/Middle East Accord."

In China, India and neighbouring countries, Honda offer both versions of Accord. American/Middle East Accord as well as European Accord (TL). But European Accord is more popular ans sells more.

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 5:57:30 AM | | Votes: 1

You're confusing me.

The TL is not sold in Europe as the Accord. The TSX is sold as the Accord. The TL is only the TL. It's sold in America, nowhere else. The US Accord looks completely different from the US TL.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 8:44:06 PM | | Votes: 1

Not too far to make a comeback! Honda has the cash to back them up. Look at Jag they are making a comeback with all the new models. The XF and XK were designed on tight budgets. At least Honda has a good financial situation. What they really need help in is DESIGN! For both Honda and Acura, have you seen the Pilot?? It is absolutely unacceptable!
— jt716 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/10/2008 11:13:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

NEW TSX, better than the RL.

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-image?image=740298/09tsx_pr-001.jpg
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 12:14:29 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

if cadillac could make a comeback, i dont see why acura cant.
— iamdabest1 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 12:22:15 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

boosteroo-I stand corrected.I mean Lexus ES 300 is the same as the Camry.I admit I'm not a Lexus Fan so I don't follow their models as closely as other makes.Even so is not the ES 300 the only FWD Lexus currently sold? Aren't the rest RWD or AWD?
— mini22 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 1:00:05 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Oh Acura will come back in the short term, but with all their cars being redone this year, in about 2 years they'll be right back where they are now. An old lineup of FWD cars that are desperately in need of RWD and a new styling them. I mean really the only Acura to take seriously is the TL which will also be new for 2009. It simply isn't smart to re-do all of their sedans for the same model year. The MDX is new and won't be redone for years. What else do they have coming for sales? NSX doesn't matter. Sure in the short term, next 12-18 month their sales will pick up but come 2010 or so they're going to need something again. Who would re-do all their bread and butter cars for the same model year, 2009? That is simply a bad move for the long term because they're all going to age at the same time and need redos again at the same time. Oh well I guess since they're all bascially the same car (an overgrown or undersized Accord) it isn't to hard to do this. Acura = pretender's luxury. Watch as Lexus, Infinti.......then Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Audi do it for real.
— Mercedes (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 2:13:07 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

One thing Acura will never, ever, ever be is on top design wise. They're cars scream FWD economy car with their proportions. Audi, Infiniti, Mercedes, and BMW absolutely KILL Acura in terms of design/styling. Even Lexus has some better looking cars. That says a lot.
— Mercedes (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 2:14:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

At least Jaguar looks like a million bucks while in awful health. NEWSFLASH: Acura was NEVER ON TOP OF ANYTHING. EVER. Certainly not design. A Very stupid comment.
— Mercedes (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 2:16:39 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

When Audi had to defend itself from those stupid unintended acceleration claims, everyone said it was finished.

It took some timew, but Audi came back stronger than ever and is looking to challenge BMW/MB in a few years for total sales.

After the 1987 Wall Street crash, everyone said Porsche was finished.

That was before Porsche became the world's most profitable car company per vehicle.

Lamborghini was so close to going under so many times it was not funny. Now under Audi stewardship, they are absolutely roaring.

Never write off any car company, especially one with Honda behind it.
— BozzorTheGreat (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 5:24:37 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

they are absolutely roaring, actually cos the lamborghini is a bull ;-)
— ILikeLambo (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 6:12:29 AM | | Votes: 2

Acura, Lexus they are all to far gone and have missed the mark...
— kpaxx (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 9:24:22 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Honda has done like parents do to a pretty girl no makeup allowed, no personality alowed, hide her in the closet like a ugly duckling because they can't stand for a boy to ask her out?
— chuck717 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 10:48:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

This new RL looks like the old 1999 TL.
— 1000rrRider (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 11:54:14 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Is it me - or are all cars under $50k looking a little boring these days.

Putting the MDX grill on the other Acura's isn't working...
— Loki123 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 11:56:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

Car makers are scared to make statement machines,in the year 08' you would think we would have styling and fuel economy go hand in hand? good take
— chuck717 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 2:02:14 PM | | Votes: 1

If I were to yell at Acura it would sound something like "RWD, RWD, RWD, RWD!!!" Let Honda like Toyota be the FWD family economy vehicles & in turn, Acura like Lexus could take on the RWD side of things.

Then all they need to do is design the Acura in it's OWN studio from the ground up, instead of just making another Honda model on steroids with a different grill/head & taillights fitted in.
— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 3:30:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

News flash other than the RL and TSX all other Acura are design in a seperate studio, and to the big hater who said the MDX is tacky sit in one and tell me after if it's tacky.
— mikeydred20 (View Profile)

Posted on 2/11/2008 9:13:47 PM | | Votes: 1

RX350=Highlander
ES350=Camry
GX470=4runner
LX470=Landcruiser
Ahhhhh
yes you r right
— Whatthe (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 9:45:24 AM | | Votes: -1

Is Acura too far gone???? Acura is second only to Lexus in sales (Japanese luxury). Infiniti is by far the dog of the market. No one talks about that... When you look at the entire luxury market, Acura is only out sold by BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Caddy. One ugly design and you people lose your minds. Yes the RL sucks, but it is being replaced in 15mths. The new TL will have AWD, and there will be two new diesel motors. Too far gone...you need to take a min. and look at the facts.
By a BMW, Mercedes, Caddy, and get ready to know your service director on a first name basis!
— Whatthe (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 9:42:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

"Whatthe" is confused and may not even have owned any Acuras - but here is the scoop. I'm TRYING to be a Honda/Acura guy - I have a 2004 Pilot EX-L with 90k troublefree miles. I've bought a new 2002 TL Type-S that I drove for 48k trouble filled miles - the usual tranny replacement etc. I traded that for a 2004 TSX (back to trouble free again - but torqueless and boring). The TSX was traded at 30k miles for a 2006 Audi A4 Quattro 3.2 S-line (manual). My friend did a similar - his 2004 TSX for a new 2007 Infiniti G35x. Nothing that's happened in the last year has generated any plans to come back to the Acura fold for either of us (and we LIKE our local Acura dealer and service dept)...Acura has sat and watched the world go by...The TL (esp being FWD only) is not REMOTELY competitive with the current G35 (right now there is NO better sport sedan value period)...Even if the TSX Type-S materializes by end of 2008...What will be a real price point? If it is near $35K - and it will have to be - it'll still be light years behind a G35...It is a sad state of affairs...Even in the Honda world - I love my Pilot but the ugly box on box Pilot Prototype has me test driving new Highlanders...On the German front - Audi has made great strides - including reliablility - my A4 is completely trouble free at 33k miles. Acura had better hope the new TL is spectacular in practice and in sales.
— klossfam (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 12:33:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

How do you measure "light years". The "g" hasn't changed since it's intro in 2003, yes yes yes, new int. in 2006, slightly new face. Come on you know as do I, there is nothing ground breaking in that car. I suggest you were enticed by the cheap lease or a 0% finance rate.
Next time get the BMW, it is the better car.
— Whatthe (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 2:18:07 PM | | Votes: 0

Wait, you said VW, sorry Audi.
— Whatthe (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 2:22:35 PM | | Votes: 0

"The TL (esp being FWD only) is not REMOTELY competitive with the current G35 (right now there is NO better sport sedan value period)"

Again? Times posted by Keiichi Tsuchiya at Willow Springs, CA race track.

1. TL-S 6MT - 1:36:67 sec
2. IS350 - 1:38:24
3. G35 6MT - 1:38:67

And? http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=34&article_id=4444

1st IS350
2nd TL-S 6MT
3rd G35 6MT

Yep, the TL-S isn't "REMOTELY competitive" with the 07 G35S
— 06TLDude (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 5:28:37 PM | | Votes: 4

I think that the rebadging on Acuras is way too obvious. Nearly all the Acura models are based on lesser Honda vehicles sold in the USA or Europe (TSX). Now, I know that Toyota and Nissan do the same, but they do differentiate them a bit more, and some aren't even sold in the US as Toyota or Nissan models (ex. Lexus IS, sold only in Japan as the Altezza or the G35 as the Skyline). If they learn to rebadge without making it look as obvious, I bet they'd do better.
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 12:36:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

First and foremost Acura needs to be competitive in design. The current model lineup really is just various riffs on the Accord theme.

The MDX looks good, and it seems to be selling well too. (Its bordeux interior color choice is nice and different as well.) The MDX shows Acura doesn't need to go nuts to design something people actually respond to.

Simply put, Acura needs to ditch their current style and make a drastic change. I don't think the average consumer gives a rats ass about which set of wheels is driving the car. And, a V8 would be nice, but only if the car was worthy of such an engine. The current RL would have more power with a V8, but would that really change consumer's perception of the car?

Lastly, Acura needs to bring back the old model names. "Legend", "Vigor", "Integra", etc. Why would someone want a non-distinctive car AND a boring name?

Acura has a great reputation for engineering and durability, but that is obviously not enough to sustain the brand.

And come on, where the hell is the NSX successor?
— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 3:00:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

I don't agree with the Accord thing but, you make a great point. Acura needs better, more distinct style. Thank you for the sanity on the drive thing.
Legend good idea, Vigor bad idea. New names would be good.
Bottom line, Acura has tech covered, style is the problem. But calling it a day for the brand, CRAZY.
— Whatthe (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 4:37:38 PM | | Votes: 2

What is the point of this?

"Or are they too far gone to make a comeback and have they become the Jaguar of the Asian brands?"

After seeing the XF in person for the first time, it's easy for me to say that Jaguar is NOT too far gone to make a comeback. Not even close! They will regain their rightful place at the forefront of automotive design and athleticism.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 2/12/2008 8:39:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Fact is that BM,MB,Audi and vw are not reliable.I bought a beautifull 2003 bm,i drove it for 14 months,it was a beautifull piece o machinery what it
was runing but i get to know my service supervisor by his first name,the car spent most of the 14 month
at the dealer fixing,tansmission,engine,electronic problems,it was a nightmare until a doctor bought from
the guy was an angel,i,almost felt sorry for him.Ignitions were replced six times.The recall#is 121305,i was back driven my wife accord with 86000.00
miles without a problem untill i bought an 06 Acura TL.it has 26000 mile whithout a problem,i change the motor oil 3 times only.I must tell you that the TL is much better than the BM in snow,Now i get to laugh at guys driving expansive BMW,MB got stuck in snow
— wanga (View Profile)

Posted on 2/15/2008 1:06:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

And the BMW/MB drivers laugh at your all summer when they see you spring for an overpriced Accord. FYI, BMW and MB drivers with brains have snow tires on now and/or own 4Matic/Xi vehicles. All of them don't get "stuck" in the snow.
— Mercedes (View Profile)

Posted on 2/18/2008 2:39:38 AM | | Votes: 1

And the BMW/MB drivers laugh at your ass all summer long when they see you sprung for an overpriced Accord. FYI, BMW and MB drivers with brains have snow tires on now and/or own 4Matic/Xi vehicles. All of them don't get "stuck" in the snow.
— Mercedes (View Profile)

Posted on 2/18/2008 2:39:55 AM | | Votes: 1

bmw not reliable, how many have you had in the past 3 years, since 05 they have been much better, yes i have a few problems, but no other car has the same warranty, everything is covered! and a real loaner car, my old acura dealer gave us Hyundai loaners....and my two audis, 05-A6 and 07 Q7, both almost trouble free... my 05 acura tls-new tranny, brakes, radio. cheap platic handles broken and oh yeah, a few rattles...
— bocabimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 3/29/2008 11:57:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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Is Acura TOO Far Gone To Make A Comeback?

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