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Is BMW Planning a Four Cylinder Turbo Motor?

We have been hearing from two independent sources that BMW is going to build a 4-Cylinder High Rev (11,000 rev limiter) engine, hoping for about 220-260 horsepower. The 4-Cylinder will be offered in 2 stages with and without twin-turbos.

We hear that the new engine will be exclusive for the 1 Series to start, but may go to a 3 coupe, but not the sedan.


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Is BMW Planning a Four Cylinder Turbo Motor?



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TurboSpyderTurboSpyder - 4/9/2008 1:22:56 PMView My AgentSpace
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I hope they don't build a peaky, torque-less wonder of a Honda motor. They should make it more like VW’s 2.0T.


Results points

1. Volkswagen/Audi 2-litre Turbo FSI - 249

2. BMW Diesel 2-litre - 143

3. Honda 2-litre i-VTEC - 123

4. Honda 2-litre S2000 (Europe/Asia))- 106

5. Mitsubishi 2-litre Turbo (Evo IX, Outlander/Airtek) - 81

6. Volkswagen 2-litre (GDI) FSI (Audi A3, A4, VW Golf, Touran, Eos, Seat Leon, Toledo, Skoda Octavia) - 71

http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/winners_07/18_2.html

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carE10carE10 - 4/9/2008 3:16:19 PM
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1. BMW-PSA 1.6-litre Turbo (Cooper S, Peugeot 207) 267

2. Toyota Hybrid 1.5-litre (Prius) 251

3. Audi 1.8-litre Turbo FSI (A3) 82

4. Peugeot-Citroën/Ford Diesel 1.6-litre (Fiesta, Ford C-Max, Citroën C4, C4 Picasso C5, Mazda 3, Peugeot 1007, 206, 307, Partner) 74

5. Honda 1.8-litre (Civic, Stream, FR-V) 65

6. Mercedes-Benz 1.8-litre Supercharged (C, SLK, CLK, E) 62


these are for the 1.4-1.8 liter category. :)


abcdabcd - 4/9/2008 4:25:20 PM
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TurboSpyder:
"I hope they don't build a peaky, torque-less wonder of a Honda motor. They should make it more like VW’s 2.0T."
I would rather hope they don`t do torque-less above 5000rpms like VW boring engines .



TurboSpyderTurboSpyder - 4/10/2008 12:54:50 PMView My AgentSpace
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abcd: "I would rather hope they don`t do torque-less above 5000rpms like VW boring engines."

-

[Quote]

A glance at the Si's power chart reveals that at 4,000 r.p.m., which is the upper range of what you might normally explore in everyday traffic in most other cars, the Civic Si generates a meek 100 horsepower. **So if you want to go faster than Wilford Brimley on a recumbent bicycle, 8,000 r.p.m. it is.**

Don't get me wrong, in an era of dumbed-down everything, it's refreshing that the Civic Si makes demands of its driver.

And I had a great time behind the wheel. Yet this is where the limitations of short-term car reviews come into play. What's entertaining for a few days may not be so entertaining for a few years. Would you eventually develop a case of wander-eye and start casting lustful gazes at Volkswagen torque charts?"

[/Quote]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/18/automobiles/18AUTO.html?pagewanted=print




M53RM53R - 4/9/2008 1:25:51 PMView My AgentSpace
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Would be awesome to have a 220+ hp 2.0l I6 that can get great fuel economy, yet be super fast for its size.

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TurboSpyderTurboSpyder - 4/9/2008 1:30:19 PMView My AgentSpace
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I agree. They should develop a turbocharged, small displacement I6.


GreenPleaseGreenPlease - 4/9/2008 2:37:10 PM
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Ideally, you want to keep per cylinder displacement as high as possible to minimize "aperture" losses (heat lost to the cylinder walls). 0.5L per cylinder seems to be a pretty optimum number for minimizing aperture losses while maximizing specific power of an engine.

IMO 11,000rpm is unrealistic for anything besides a special performance model such as an M. Specialized bearings and coatings would have to be utilized as well as (expensive) forged crank, conrods, and pistons. Would probably have to be hand assembled. Have fun with the gearbox.

11,000rpm + turbo is a no-go from an engineering standpoint. When F1 was tinkering with turbo compounding they limited their engines to ~10,000rpm. THAT'S F1! No way that sorta tech would make it to the street. If BMW is going after high-rev and FI at the same time, look for ~8200rpm to be the ceiling. Should make for some fantastic specific power numbers! >150hp/liter easy!

A sequential turbo setup is a distinct possibility as is a VGT turbo. If we are really lucky, maybe dual VGT turbos. The sequential turbo setup would need a really small first stage turbine; smaller than even the snails used on the N54(335i).


AE86AE86 - 4/9/2008 3:19:02 PM
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GreenPlease, you just wrote the best comment I have seen in AutoSpies. not a huge compliment, but thank you for adding interesting points to this conversation.


TurboSpyderTurboSpyder - 4/10/2008 12:59:27 PMView My AgentSpace
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BMW has had a 2.0L I6 motor since 1977. Whether it's the best candidate to make the most efficient 2.0L I don't know but I do know the dynamics of the I6 are wonderful.


BremboBrembo - 4/9/2008 1:28:41 PM
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"quad-turbo" Wow! How does that work? Very Interesting.

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BremboBrembo - 4/9/2008 1:29:34 PM
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Plus. I always thought that harder the engine works the more fuel it has to consumer.


AdHominemAdHominem - 4/9/2008 1:34:24 PM
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I hope they build an engine like the 4 cylinder they used in the E30 M3 from 80's. That M3 and engine won over 1,500 races and more than 50 championships. Unprecedented in touring car racing. An engine like combined with BMW's turbo technology will be a lot if fun.

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BremboBrembo - 4/9/2008 2:08:47 PM
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I never followed that M3 engine. What was its configuration? Did it have a turbo?


AdHominemAdHominem - 4/9/2008 3:15:03 PM
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That engine was not turbo charged. An engine like that combined with BMW's current turbo charging technology would likely be a compelling motor for a sporting car.

BMW was turbo charging their Formula One engines in the 80's and actually Nelson Piquet won the championship in a 4-cylinder turbo-charged BMW that used the very same block that made its way into the M3 later in the decade.


09CTSVforMe09CTSVforMe - 4/9/2008 2:57:59 PM
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Now you're posting links to BLOGS? sheesh

I knew you guys couldn't get ten "articles" in a row without "BMW" in the headline.

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KingerKinger - 4/10/2008 8:53:40 AM
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^ Oh dear, lol....


WhelanWhelan - 4/9/2008 4:18:20 PM
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So they need to make an engine that revs to 11k with twin turbo to get 260hp? LOL! Maybe they should take some design elements from the upcoming Cobalt SS, Sky Redline, Solstice GXP, Astra Redline with the 4cyl. 260hp single turbo 2.2L EcoTec.

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HeyhuubHeyhuub - 4/9/2008 4:52:15 PM
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No road car engine is gonna go to 11000rpm unless is weighs 500kg. Simply to unpractical.
Say it would be a 2 litre, how does 200nm @ 9000RPM sound?

Would be awesome, but i'm pretty sure it's not gonna happen.

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BoredBored - 4/9/2008 5:28:23 PM
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Should have been in the 1 Series launch plans from the get go -- the 3L twin-turbo I6 should have been saved for a M1 (heaven help us if the dare used the name of a classic) or the 1 series Tii (preferred).

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bmwfan1513bmwfan1513 - 4/9/2008 6:30:43 PM
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That would be nice for the 1 Series.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 4/9/2008 8:31:51 PMView My AgentSpace
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I would buy it.

I have to say, though, I would prefer a small displacement six.

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valhallakeyvalhallakey - 4/10/2008 2:23:16 AM
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Personally I don't think 11k rpm is unrealistic in a small 4cyl turbo motor. Most of the current crop of 1.3+ liter superbikes make their peak horsepower around 10,000 rpm. I think with some healthy evolution and a bit of over engineering for longevity and the heavier load a car places on the motor 11,000 rpm is an achievable goal. With the right turbos (2 small 2 large? 3 small 1 large??) you could also extract some healthy torque figures. Would be sweet in a 0 series M car ;-). BTW the turbo formula 1 era is a long time ago... things have moved on considerably... but those were some amazing engines... tiny little motors .. what 1.5 liters pumping out close to 1500 hp... crazy!

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simmonsdpsimmonsdp - 4/10/2008 7:23:37 AM
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BMW and Mercedes were racing 2.3 and 2.5's 4 cylider motors achieving 10k rpm and around 375 hp in the mid 1980's. They raced in the DTM as well as other touring car races and some were 24hr races as well and the sound of these cars were incredible....


simmonsdpsimmonsdp - 4/10/2008 7:25:07 AM
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oh and to add, these cars were without turbos.....

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bmwdrvrbmwdrvr - 4/10/2008 8:35:42 AM
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a 4cylinder, and 4 cylinder turbo should have been the engines in the 1 series from the start, with the 128i being the top line car, 135i as the high performance model, thats just my opinion there is no need for an entry level car to hit 60 in 4.7 seconds making a laughing stock out of e46 M3 owners, and come very close to M car times for less money than a 3 series sedan or coupe. It doesnt make much sense from a price or performance stand point

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GeorgemiaGeorgemia - 4/11/2008 3:10:07 AM
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A four-cylinder 1 series might be much better balanced, too.

Since they already sell them in Europe, it's only a question of time for the US market.

$4.00 gas changes everything.

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