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Is BMW Setting Itself Up For A Lesson From The School Of Hard Knocks?

Agent009 submitted on 09/22/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 9:22 AM
from: www.topspeed.com

[73] user comments | category: Misc News

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Is BMW Setting Itself Up For A Lesson From The School Of Hard Knocks?

I fear for BMW. The people who make “The Ultimate Driving Machine” may be making the ultimate mistake. The worst part of this is that this can be avoided if they look to its domestic competitor a couple of hours away in Stuttgart.

With all the new models planned by BMW in the next five years (at least 3 new model lines, 4 new models for existing lines, and one addition to an existing line,) I think BMW may have not learned Mercedes’ hard lesson that comes with reaching beyond its limits.

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adamsaf723 - 9/22/2008 9:44:26 AM

+12 Boost

As long as there is a market for the new vehicles, than BMW should do them.

Apparently there was a market when Mercedes did the C-Class, CLK-Class, etc... because I see them everywhere.

As far as the luxury market goes, everyone is struggling, but BMW isn't struggling as much as others. They just came out with the 1-Series and X6, both of which are selling extremely well, why not add more cars?

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kthor - 9/22/2008 1:32:05 PM

+11 Boost

adamsaf723 is right on the money. What is really going on here is that every two-bit hack with the ambition of being a auto "journalist" knows that their "article" will get a gazillion hits if they mention the most powerful brand in the automotive world: BMW. It is a merit-less cock of garbage, but hey, it mentions BMW so it will get read. Case in point is this link to it right here on Autospies. If he had written about a poser, copycat brand or a hyper expensive boutique brand no one would care, but mention BMW and cha ching!

BMW is the real deal because it is truly independent and filled with passionate people at the top of the talent pool. It has an incredible culture of creativity and non-compromise. The result for nearly a century is amazing driving, cutting edge vehicles that are simply without compare.

izfuney - 9/22/2008 2:34:53 PM

-5 Boost

Most powerful brand in the world !? I think you need to stop smelling what comes out of your beemers tailpipe.

Most powerful brand: Coca-Cola
Secondly BMW makes nice cars that is clearly tuned towards the affecionado but in terms of industrial scale and its ability to attract people around the world it is nowhere near the heft and breadth of the majors like VW, GM , Toyota , Renault-Nissan.

As for stomping on the article for "dubious veracity" or Agent009's "credentials" - This is autospies, most of the articles veer into the domain of crud and jingoistic popularity. If you are here for the "elevated" discussion of auto engineering you are in for a shock . On the other hand if you ever wonder what the online version of a mud pit fight is like .. you are in the right place.

Wazz - 9/22/2008 2:51:22 PM

+10 Boost

izfuney - kthor was meaning most Powerful Automotive Brand in the world.

And by that he means that BMW sets the trend/example by which many other brands seem to follow. There are probably more BMW articles on this site than any other single brand. BMW is probably the best trend-setter in the automotive world.

GM, Toyota, VW etc. are made up of many other brands within a brand if you will eg. Chevrolet, Lexus, Audi and yet BMW is its own entity.

Like it or not BMW is held in very high esteem in the motoring world, whether you like the brand or not.

kthor - 9/22/2008 4:21:01 PM

+6 Boost

Thanks Wazz. izfuney, I stated very clearly "in the automotive world" so your Coke comment is just silly. 009 didn't write it, he posted it. You obviously didn't read the article or my post thoroughly or at all. Being the biggest does not make one the best but, you know that of course, you are just grasping for something to type so no worries.

S4cabriofoxone - 9/22/2008 7:40:41 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

I would say Toyota is the most powerful automotive brand in the world (the Prius started the hybrid revolution), but BMW is certainly the most powerful when it comes to luxury cars.

M53R - 9/22/2008 9:45:33 AMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

The problem with Mercedes was that their " extra cars " were rubbish. The B class is just ugly, so is the R class and overpriced. But if BMW can make the products appealing, price them right, they will not face what Mercedes faced.

and Im still crying over the CSL...

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AE86 - 9/22/2008 11:35:30 AM

-1 Boost

Because had $80-115k burning a hole in your wallet for a car without A/C?

thecar - 9/22/2008 2:32:29 PM

0 Boost

850ci , 318ti , x6 ....

S4cabriofoxone - 9/22/2008 7:41:39 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

"Because had $80-115k burning a hole in your wallet for a car without A/C?"

If this is how you judge a car like the CSL, you're completely missing the point.

However, if it was over $100K I'd veer towards a Porsche GT3 instead...

AE86 - 9/23/2008 11:33:19 AM

+2 Boost

I think the M3 CSL was a great car, but it was more of an exercise than something the market demanded. In these harsh economic times, it makes more sense to focus on cars that have a market. The new CSL would have been close to or in excess of $100k making it irrelevant next to the GT2, as you point out.

MB is the king of making irrelevant one off evolutions of kind of sort of DTM cars.

S4cabriofoxone - 9/24/2008 10:59:52 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

The GT2 is a $200,000 RWD Turbo with 550hp. The GT3 is a $106,000 400hp drivable track car. Just so you know, as they are easily confused.

Maverick2020 - 9/22/2008 10:15:33 AM

+4 Boost

There is always the pressure to out-do last years sales, so OEMs resort to gimmicky extensions.

Ultimately, it dilutes their efforts because they have so many variants with the same number of engineers and also marketing dollars.

BMW would be better off doing a select number of extensions only if they make sense. But Germans have a congenital defect where pure arrogance frequently takes them in areas where they shouldn't go. Think VW Phaeton.

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Schwitz916 - 9/22/2008 8:06:42 PM

-3 Boost

If you read the article it actually credits BMW from learning from Mercedes mistakes and is syaing that BMW has to continue covering themselves so that it doesn't take a hit like Mercedes did. By using more common parts amongst the cars they are able to control and have already worked through the growing pains on those particular parts. there are no real surprises. I had three mercedes during the 90's (S430, E55, and ML500) and all three had quality issues. To the point that I couldn't stand my AMG anymore and replaced it with a Porsche. Mercedes has finally turned it around and have a new E63 and it is great. I replaced the ML500 with an SRT8 jeep and couldn't be happier. With all of that being said, I would still never drive a BMW for two reasons.
First, they are the most over priced base cars on the market. I've never looked at a car that you have to pay so much extra for. You upgrade from an ML 350 to Ml 500 and all of a sudden Navigation is standard and other small things that really make a difference. In all seriousness who would ever drive a 318tii except someone who thought it was cool to drive a BMW. I mean it is the slowest car, cloth seats, horrible audio, but they felt better about themselves for driving a BMW. I just never got that.
Second, BMW should just rename themselves obnoxious because most people who drive one are. People feel better about themselves for buying an over priced car and I just don't get that. Just go back to my 318tii example.

gooch - 9/23/2008 8:19:35 AM

0 Boost

You were going pretty well there until you got to the part about not understanding why anyone would buy a 318ti. I will grant you there are some people driving BMWs who are obnoxious, but believe me, there are many driving Benzes who are just as obnoxious.
Back to the 318 reference: sure the car is slow. Sure it has cloth seats (which some people prefer) and horrible audio (why would a base car have an audio system like a high-end car? The 3-Series was BMW's entry-level car until the 1-Series came around). But the proof of the pudding is in the driving dynamics. Steering feel, handling, responsiveness. The things that make driving an experience, and not just AMG-style brute acceleration (you pass everything except gas pumps, don't you?). As a long-term Mercedes driver, I suspect you don't know too much about BMW dynamics, so you would say that type of stuff. Besides, BMW makes vehicles that are more than competitive with almost every type of Benz. And while AMG is a highly revered name, it does not have the same cachet as M.
It's cool you're loyal to your brand, but your attempt to denigrate BMW and some BMW drivers does not portray you in the classy image Mercedes likes to believe its owners have.

truthpursuit - 9/22/2008 10:44:27 AM

Show Comment -24 Boost

Kinger - 9/22/2008 12:08:41 PM

-1 Boost

Clearly it's early days on this truth pursuit...

truthpursuit - 9/23/2008 6:36:30 PM

0 Boost

I know a BMW sales manager,he says BMW is obsessed with Lexus.They want to beat them so bad.They just don't have enough money to get it done.

truthpursuit - 9/23/2008 6:38:42 PM

0 Boost

Its going to be a sad year again for you little man,bmw will lose again this year,and several more to come.

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B7FAN - 9/22/2008 10:52:32 AM

+5 Boost

I dont think BMW will be hurt because there so many fans of this company they are looking to pull more customers in I think the X6 was a brilliant Idea they have gotten great reviews on its debut and the 3,5,6,and 7 series is what BMW had since the 70's and they have show and proved that these 4 particular models have stood the test of time except for maybe the 6 series which came back out in 2004 after about 20 years and the 8 series didnt last but thats besides the point. The BMW brand is pushing to be a brand that everyone wants and that everyone could afford

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MeanVulcan - 9/22/2008 12:32:08 PM

-1 Boost

"The BMW brand is pushing to be a brand that everyone wants and that everyone could afford "

Yeah, good luck with that!

KZ258 - 9/22/2008 12:43:49 PM

-10 Boost

the X6 was the stupidest idea ever. many of its reviews are always claiming the car to be pointless. its also more than the damn GT-R fully loaded. yes, the x6 drives great, etc, but its a damn SUV. i cant imagine seeing a decent customer saying, "the X5 isnt sporty for me, i just dont like sport coupes cuz im an idiot like that and i don't like porsche. BMW needs to make a super SUV!" if anything, they should of simply made a M version of the X5.

1dott8 - 9/22/2008 1:22:43 PMView My AgentSpace

-8 Boost

KZ258 - i agree with you. the X6 doesn't really have a purpose. it's an suv without room for anything. it's a sports car on a raised platform. what the hell is that thing?

kthor - 9/22/2008 1:42:05 PM

+8 Boost

KZ258 and 1dott8 you don't get the X6 and that's OK. Don't feel bad or stew about it. The X6 is sold out and it is getting at least full MSRP for every copy and it drives you nuts because you don't get it. People come in and call for them every day and we have to turn them away. It is must be upsetting to know that is so successful even in this high gas price market. It must even more upsetting that the X6 is so successful and you don't know why. Ouch! But you need to let it go or you will get an ulcer or an aneurysm or something....just let it go.

1dott8 - 9/22/2008 4:21:28 PMView My AgentSpace

-6 Boost

kthor - you are absolutely right, i have no clue why the x6 is sold out. well, maybe i do have a clue. bmw fanboys will buy anything that bmw puts out no matter how pointless it is or rediculous it looks.

i don't want to be considered a bmw hater because that is not the case, i own a bimmer and love it and a few others but the x6 in my opinion is just wrong, ugly and pointless no matter who is buying it or not. that is my opinion and no is going to change that.

KZ258 - 9/22/2008 8:41:55 PM

-3 Boost

" Ouch! But you need to let it go or you will get an ulcer or an aneurysm or something....just let it go."

^dude, i'd prefer you tell your mom on me that i've hurt your feelings rather than you spit out your BMW bias at me. the X6 is more pointless than worthy...get over it or just give up on life

HelloKittyLexus - 9/22/2008 10:24:03 PM

+3 Boost

Oh my big man from the Heavens above! 1dott8 you are like so, totally, right!!! Whenever I go car shopping, cause like I get a new one every six months from my most excellent Daddy, I totally compare SAVs with supercar convertables like the M3. I just don't get why people are all, "Why would you compare a supercar convertable to an all-wheel-drive sport activity vehicle?!?!?!" And I'm all, "DUH! They are totally comaparable. They are both cars, aren't they?!?!?!" Next I totally have to decide between a Ford Excursion, which I madly in like with, and a Porsche Cayman S. Ugh!!! Decisions Decisions! Life is hard!!!

daytonaviolet - 9/22/2008 11:01:00 AM

-4 Boost

They need to be very careful. I think BMW is too proud to learn anything from another car company. But the proof is there, Mercedes tried to grow too quickly and their quality went down.

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Whatthe - 9/22/2008 11:24:12 AM

+4 Boost

Hey 009, couldn't find a audi is god article to post?
Ran out of "new" audi releases?
Isn't audi, not BMW headed down that road?
Look harder, there has to be some audi praise articles you missed.

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Agent009 - 9/22/2008 12:14:48 PMView My AgentSpace

-7 Boost

Don't be a moron...

AudiNewEngland - 9/22/2008 12:45:53 PM

-10 Boost

Owned

Whatthe - 9/22/2008 12:55:09 PM

+5 Boost

That hurts from such a evenhanded appraiser of automobiles.
audinewsquat. Owned? As in owned a sweet vw?

Agent009 - 9/22/2008 4:35:54 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

No, not owned. The simple fact is some makes are in a PR drought right now and some are in a PR blitz. You see it happened all of the time. Look back to the IS-F, everyday there was something until everyone was sick of it. Right now there is not a whole bunch new information other than (dare I say?) Audi. So yep you get an ear full, but it will recede soon and be replaced by some other brand.

MeanVulcan - 9/22/2008 12:34:19 PM

-5 Boost

... and you forgot, "a company chosen by God to rule over the Earth forever and ever"!

You should rename yourself "IQZero".

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VISO - 9/22/2008 12:49:16 PM

-5 Boost

Maybe so, but BMW overall is considered a "small company' compared to others. Daimler AG is n the same situation. And good luck on taking on the VW-Audi-Porsche jaggernaut in the future regarding resources. Only a thought.

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09CTSVforMe - 9/22/2008 3:27:28 PM

-1 Boost

Funny thing about your opinion...that's pretty much what they used to say about Cadillac, too.

Hmmm...

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topneuro - 9/22/2008 11:39:24 AM

0 Boost

BMW “survival” does not depend on its line up, depends on its leasing and finance options. BMW does not sell cars, it mostly leases them. Sixty percent of BMW’s in US are leased, not sold. From the 10 vehicles with the highest lease share, seven belong to German automakers with four of those being BMWs. The 7-Series tops the list with a lease share in 2008 of 85.3%, followed by BMW Z4 (70.7 %), BMW 6 (68.6 %), and BMW X3 (67.3 %). Evidently taking cues from the huge losses domestic automakers have been taking as a result of off-lease vehicles being valued at less than expected, although this was due mainly to them being gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs, BMW has improve its finance/purchasing options. BMW cited costs of $373 million in the first quarter as a direct result of the lower values of vehicles at the end of their leases. At the start of May, BMW raised lease price by an average of three percent and introduced 0.9 percent financing on new car loans for as long as five years.

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david999 - 9/22/2008 12:09:10 PM

-1 Boost

Good points topneuro

enthusiastx11 - 9/22/2008 12:46:20 PM

+2 Boost

well, they seem to know what they're doing! bottom line: BMW remains hugely profitable.

david999 - 9/22/2008 12:07:30 PM

+2 Boost

Not only Mercedes, but GM and the other Big North American car companies have too many models out, that not only confuse the consumer, but it contributed to bad marketing and production practices.

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MeanVulcan - 9/22/2008 12:48:44 PM

-7 Boost

During these times, I simply don't see the need for the overlapping SL600, CL, SLR and the upcoming Gullwing. You can argue they are different cars but you can also argue that many buyers simply want a sporty Mercedes and they will buy whichever looks best for them because they really have no intentions of running around a track with it. They just want it to drive on a weekend or to the country club.

ICON - 9/22/2008 12:27:35 PM

+6 Boost

I think BMW learned its lesson in humiliation early with their experience with the purchase of Rover in 1994. They were smart enough to see the writing on the wall and realize that the purchase did not fit their goal of offering premium vehicles in each segment that they choose to participate in.

I don't think anyone would argue with their successful stewardship of Land Rover(until they sold it to Ford because of their internal SUV development program)or their resurrection of the Rolls Royce and Mini brands to become the market leaders they are today.

So expanding their portfolio to take advantage of their engineering prowess and market catchet makes sense to me. If they can execute and deliver vehicles that the market wants who is to argue with that wisdom. As an independent company they have no choice but to grow or die.

I think people should and will reward companies that push the envelope and offer the marketplace constant innovation in products and technology. (Certainly has worked out well for Apple)

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MeanVulcan - 9/22/2008 12:44:41 PM

-9 Boost

"I don't think anyone would argue with their successful stewardship of Land Rover(until they sold it to Ford because of their internal SUV development program)..." it flopped because of its internal plans not aligning with LR, THUS it was NOT A SUCCESS, this was a planning FAILURE.

"...or their resurrection of the Rolls Royce and Mini brands to become the market leaders they are today." Heads up, RR is not the leading brand, Bentley outsells them handily. The only positive here is Mini, which is blessed with excellent timing (which is not BMWs doing). Let's not exaggerate or misinform. BMW is doing good overall, although they are sensitive to leasing issues. They are by no means know-it alls. If the customer base or fans become arrogant, they will simply become esier prey over the long run.

ICON - 9/22/2008 1:21:13 PM

+6 Boost

Well Vulcan, obviously you want to approach a discussion of BMW from your negative viewpoint, whatever, but at least recognize that BMW delivered a Range Rover to the marketplace that was a great vehicle and revitalized the brand. The fact that they wanted to expand their own label SVU program does not translate into a failure by any stretch of your imagination.

Rolls outsells Bentleys Ultra-premium product offerings (like the Brooklands)- and my point was that BMW completely revived a dying auto company - while staying faithful to its heritage. You are discounting this as well? hmmmm?

And then you dismiss the success at mini as simply the luck of timing....You have got to be kidding!Timing does not account for making a great product that has been in strong demand since it was introduced.

No one is perfect but at least give credit where it is due, and stop coming off as a dismissive hater.

sector - 9/22/2008 12:38:12 PM

-10 Boost

BMW is the ultimate car rental company :)

Like the above poster has indicated, upwards of 65% of them are leased not purchased. You may think this is just coincidence but think again, this has been BMW's plan from the beginning i.e., lining themselves up with "continuous income stream" instead of periodic purchases by its customers. You'd have to be a complete moron to not realize this.

Why do you think they offer almost 0% lease rates, why do you think they throw in "free" maintenance, and why are their vehicles designed to make you heavily dependent on the "stealerships" i.e., run-flats, complex error codes, no dipsticks, composite brake rotors that cannot be rotated but must be replaced by the dealer after every brake service, special transfluids that need to be flown in from Germany, the list goes on and on.These tactics are all designed to make you lease and make you dependent on them.

Now I'm not going to argue they don't provide good dynamics in they're products, they do. But how important is dynamics when everything else like reliability and customer ownership experience suffers, you can't enjoy you're ride when it's always in the garage getting fixed.

BMW is a gimmick nothing more. Lexus on the other hand are on solid ground, it's the car you go to when you want customer satisfaction, solid build quality/reliability, and content offering. It's true they are not quite there in terms of driving dynamics, but let me tell you the gap is closing, as they sharpen dynamics and begin to offer more sportier models. I believe they are only one vehicle gen away from matching or even surpassing BMW in this department. When that day comes all BMW will have to ride on is so called "prestige" and "snob appeal".

reply to this comment

enthusiastx11 - 9/22/2008 12:48:17 PM

+6 Boost

blather from those who know little...

please share how bmw is "gimmick nothing more." so they don't make a good product?

please share how lexus is on solid ground. so they're profitable? how have their sales been for the past 6 months?

MeanVulcan - 9/22/2008 12:51:44 PM

-9 Boost

One word ... Genesis.

ouzoboy - 9/22/2008 12:54:50 PM

+4 Boost

Not sure why someone would object to having service bundled into the purchase price of the vehicle. Failures in modern cars can be expensive and having the comfort of knowing that you total cost of ownership for your lease vehicle is fixed at the time of purchase is welcome in a world of volatility. Bringing a car back to dealer also insure that all the latest updates are performed to the vehicle's meriad of processors. Auto001 has not convinced of the weakness of this approach.

sector - 9/22/2008 3:50:10 PM

-7 Boost

ouzoboy, so you agree BMW's are expensive to repair, hope you're leasing your BMW... be prepared for a rude awakening when you're warranty expires.

Perception of free and free are two different things, but not in BMW world. They have successfully re-aligned their business strategy to get people hooked on expensive cars and repair at the same time cutting their own costs, all in the name of continuous cash flow.

Before the "free maintenance" you couldn't bring your car in often enough, now that the it is "free" their cars miraculously don't need serving for 15,000 miles, don't need break in oil service, trans oils and diff oil are now "lifetime fill"..., break/coolant fluids now last "twice" as long. And their reputation as having expensive repair even works for them as you'll be encouraged to lease, and you know you'll have to have a BMW... it means you're affluent and good looking :) this the brilliance of BMW marketing as they've figured all this out.

Like a smart drug dealer, it's all about getting you hooked, once they have you, you're just another guinea pig lining their pockets.

crackityjones - 9/25/2008 8:43:06 PM

+1 Boost

Folks who buy (or lease) BMW know what they're getting into by now. Yes, you can have a $4K bill dropped on you like a raindrop when your Bimmer's warranty expires. It's the way they do things, take it or leave it.

Don't think this was the point of this article, though.

And on top of that, no Lexus is ever, ever going to be a substitute for a BMW. If Lexus stole you away, you weren't a BMW driver to begin with. Different mindsets. To each his own. Not worth debating.

enthusiastx11 - 9/22/2008 12:50:24 PM

+4 Boost

you kids can foam at the mouth over financing rates, percentage of cars leased, too many models, etc.

the FACT is that BMW remains one of the most profitable auto manufacturers in existence. and owners LOVE their cars. and they're extremely loyal.

please explain how happy customers and huge profits are a failure.

reply to this comment

Whatthe - 9/22/2008 1:01:47 PM

+4 Boost

Don't say profit, it hurts some peoples feelings (audi lovers).
Great cars, great engineering, great success makes others envious.

Whatthe - 9/22/2008 1:02:30 PM

+6 Boost

Funny thing, i'm not even an BMW fanboy, I just see the truth.

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VISO - 9/22/2008 5:47:09 PM

-6 Boost

Don't know what you are getting at with the stupid profit remark against Audi. But if you actually checked your facts, Audi is one the most profitable car companys out there with its net on return surpassing your precious little bimmer. Audi has no worry regarding its financial standing, BMW I would worry some.

ouzoboy - 9/22/2008 1:03:57 PM

+3 Boost

People lease cars for many reasons, but one is that they don't have to own depeciating assets. You would not buy a house of the value of your home went down continually - you would rent. So why not apply the same logic to your next largest purchase. BMW is a benchmark for residual value, so its even more attractive to lease them.

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topneuro - 9/22/2008 1:28:20 PM

-9 Boost

Ditto auto001. Nuff Said!

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1dott8 - 9/22/2008 1:45:09 PMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

all who reign on top will one day fall off and that is something bmw fanboy's do not understand. bmw is a great company, they make great cars but so do other car companies. lexus' make great cars for their target maket, Audi makes great cars for their target market, mercedes makes great cars for their target market and so on and so on........

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1dott8 - 9/22/2008 4:28:32 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

i got deboosted for being a real enthusiast. lol, you bmw fanboys kill me.

Star - 9/22/2008 5:46:39 PM

+1 Boost

You got deboosted for being stupid. Don't act so surprised.

1dott8 - 9/22/2008 6:48:45 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

being stupid and being a real enthusiast, so be it. i wish this was a group meeting, all the tough guys on this site would probably be as quiet as a church mouse.

star - i usually punch people in the face for comments like that.

Teknik - 9/22/2008 4:32:59 PMView My AgentSpace

-11 Boost

BMW owners are poorer than Audi owners.

BMW owners can't afford Audi's.

Lambo, Ferrari, Bentley, and Rolls owners are always laughing at poor BMW owners. BMW owners are at the bottom of the barrel. They have low IQ's and are poor, just face the facts.

They are at a lower income level than Audi and Benz owners, those are the facts, get used to it fanboys.

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Agent009 - 9/22/2008 4:37:06 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Not sure if even I would go out on that limb.

Star - 9/22/2008 5:40:51 PM

0 Boost

It doesn't matter how rich or poor BMW owners are. What is important is that they own the ultimate driving machine.

1dott8 - 9/22/2008 11:12:31 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

don't you mean rent? how many people actually own a bmw?

strafe1 - 9/22/2008 6:13:34 PM

+5 Boost

kthor-
cutting edge vehicles that are without compare? Really? Comments like that are from badge freaks and posers. There are several other companies in the Tier 1 group that have more talent, are more cutting edge and have more passion than BMW. BMW makes truly magnificent cars, but to say they are without peer is stupid. Mercedes is certainly its equal. Porsche is also. Audi is great in its own right. All of these cars have earned there stripes over time and their pedigree is deserved. Can't listen to closed-minded comments like yours. You make BMW fans like me want to distance myself from you.

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Speedoholic - 9/23/2008 7:56:46 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

BMW know what they are doing, They gambled by making the X6 cz it was the first of its kind. They saw Mercedes-Benz falling in big problems after introducing the ugly R-Class and B-Class. Now BMW want to produce competitors for Mercedes without making the same mistakes. so I don't think they're gonna face problems. They just have to do it right.

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1dott8 - 9/23/2008 3:56:55 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Speedoholic - i know everyone want's to think that bmw was the first to make this contraption (x6) but they copied from the chinese. check the link below;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SsangYong_Actyon

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darzav - 9/24/2008 4:33:48 AM

+2 Boost

No matter what they do. People will still buy their cars. There is a market for anything that has a BMW badge on it.

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truthpursuit - 9/25/2008 12:05:17 PM

+1 Boost

You are right they will always be stupid people who will fool themselves that they bought something special,when they just overpaid for a POS.

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rmixfaatl - 9/26/2008 3:48:37 PM

0 Boost

I think B M W is doing the right thing,cuz u can c from the sellin number...

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Fisker to unveil production Karma Hybrid in Detroit Toyota Halts Production And Cuts Management Bonuses To Maintain Positive Cashflow Chrysler says 2011 Charger and 300 will pass fuel-economy standards 2009 GMC Yukon XL Denali FORD CEO Alan Mulally Will Drive to Washington D.C. To BEG For Money - But What Car Will He Drive To D.C.? His Lexus, OR Perhaps Maybe a Ford Product?Industry Sales Likely To Be Down 28% In November GM May Fare Worse Lotus Evora order list includes 007 and Top Gear hosts Everyone Is On A Budget, But Are These 5 Your Choice To Keep Living Large?Could The Detroit Recovery Plan Really As Simple As Merging In To One?Fiat Abarth 500 receives Top Gear’s “Best Hot Hatch” award Detroit Tells UAW They Can No Longer Pay For Idled Workers To Play Checkers 2010 Porsche Panamera auto show debut delayed Swedish Government Confirms Discussions With Volvo and SAAB BMW not putting MINI E into mass-production Top Gear Car of the Year 2008 award goes to VW Scirocco New Mitsubishi Lancer EVO X FQ-400: Limited Edition with 405HP 2009 Nissan 370Z Driven in Japan 2010 Jaguar XF-R spotted nearly finished UAW wants limits on carmakers' executive pay Does It Hurt The BMW Brand Image When They Are Being Sold At Costco?2008 Essen Motor Show: Vw unveils Touareg North Sails Edition Carlsson releases limited edition automatic watch Video: 2009 Mini Cooper Cabrio in action Porsche Museum to open its gates on 31 January 2009 Vw Eos White Night Edition unveiled at Essen UPDATE 1-German carmakers make fresh move to cut output Audi R8 GT3 LMS Hits the Track (Video)GM UK takes two Top Gear awards BMW Konfigurator Using Microsoft Surface for Product Navigator How About A Piece Of Kim Kardashian's Booty For The Holidays?Cars They Wish You'd Forget About - "Hey, they can't all be winners!"Acura V8 won't Arrive Until 2015: Report Brabham M3 revealed at the Essen Show 2008 Essen Motor Show: Dodge Challenger SRT8 by Eibach Nissan 370 Z Japanese Promotional Vide Elite Carbon Maserati Gran Turismo Marangoni M430 based on Alfa Romeo Mi.To 2008 VW Scirocco Collectors’ Edition debuts at Essen Ford at the top of the list for safety in accidents