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Agent001
Big Dreamers Never Sleep
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95
Is BMW The New Porsche?
Agent001
submitted on 02/19/2008
Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 10:42 PM
from: www.autospies.com
[179] user comments
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Tags: BMW, Porsche
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Is BMW The New Porsche?
In the old days, there was everyone else and then there was Porsche.
Their brand had a mystique and they lived up to their slogan, 'There IS no substitute'.
But the more I see what they're doing today, I see them missing the boat in the sweet spot that they compete in and I'm not so sure I see a bright future for the brand.
Today's announcement of Peter Schwarzenbauer heading over to Audi only reinforced my theory.
I've had the chance to spend some time with him at Porsche and I can tell you he is a smart dude.
You don't leave the position he had for Audi unless what he saw coming over the next few years was less than impressive in his eyes.
The Boxster/Cayenne sales are weak, the Cayenne isn't exactly flying off the shelves and people I've talked to who have seen the upcoming Panamera say its nice but not mind-blowing compared to cars like the M5, E63, S6, etc.
Sure they have some great rides like the GT2 but I'm referring to the everyday cars in the volume segments like the Boxster/Cayman/Cayenne/911's.
I don't see the future for them looking so rosy there.
What's happening there is the antithesis of what's going on at BMW.
In every segment where the two are competing against each other BMW is simply kicking their asses.
In products and in consumer mind share.
If you ask me, BMW is the NEW Porsche.
Right now, BMW could carry the moniker 'There is no substitute' better than Porsche in my opinion.
M5, 650, 135i, 335, M Coupe, X6...and the list keeps growing.
Across the board and sales and street cred will back me up.
Do you agree?
Is the Porsche magic diminishing?
Is it more impressive to own a BMW today than a Porsche?
What recommendations would you make to the next Exec that takes over for Schwarzenbauer?
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DaHarder
- 2/19/2008 11:01:36 PM
+23 Boost
NOT BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION!
Great Cars, But Porsche - NOT!
reply to this comment
JRobUSC
- 2/20/2008 10:03:12 AM
+6 Boost
krautmaster, if you want to knock BMW for "making the same car for 30 years in different sizes", then how can you not knock Porsche for "making the same car for 30 years" period? The 911 has looked pretty much exactly the same for how long now? And the snout on the Cayman, Panamera, and Cayenne look familiar, where have I seen them before? Oh yeah, on the 911. That wouldn't be different sized versions of the same car, would it? Nah, Porsche would never do anything like that.
keerg
- 2/20/2008 10:18:21 AM
-7 Boost
Porsche lost it when they made that ugly excuse for an SUV. They once had a great advertisement saying " Porsche doesn't have sports cars in their lineup like other companies. But a line up of sports cars". Looks like that has been shot down. And if they come out with the Panamera 4 door monstrosity It will truly be a sad sad day.
enthusiastx11
- 2/20/2008 11:36:20 AM
+6 Boost
kraut is a camry-driving boy who knows nothing about cars. ignore him.
EnvyofyouRS5
- 2/20/2008 2:20:12 PM
+1 Boost
Dear Donald-O, Hi-me from Team Audi here (Rally Connesiour), When BMW came out with their SUV, it helped out their brand image. With all less than impressive attributes compared to the Cayenne.
If a brands image goes down after introducing a new model lineup, as opposed to one that goes up after introducing a new model lineup, It's clear to say that the heirarchy stands.
The thing is some of these brands are just making themselves look stupid and not less than impressive, haha the Ferrari SUV speaks louder than porsche on this whole De-imaging the brands image.
over and out -
Hime
bmwman1963
- 2/22/2008 10:57:27 AM
View My AgentSpace
+1 Boost
I am so sick and tired of bloggers complaining about BMW's IDrive.. I have it on my 335i coupe and it is fantastic. You have to give BMW credit for pioneering the next step in automotive interaction. All the other LUX brands have copied BMW some better some not. BMW's latest version is very intuitive and much easier than previous versions. It only takes a few hours to master and once you have, you never want to go back. If imitation is the best compliment then BMW is the true pioneer of the automotive industry. Not only have other LUX brands copied the IDrive but the so called and much hated "Banglization" of their cars.
BMW is always ahead of the game, no matter what field the game is played!
EvoAudi
- 2/19/2008 11:05:43 PM
View My AgentSpace
-6 Boost
Porsche has lost some of its "pizazz" so to say. Mainly in the name of getting more sales. BMW is getting more and more popular with the modern 15-27 year old generation, due to the fact that they advertise more, celebrities "DUB" them out, and also Porsche image has become a place where 40 year old men go to for a mid-life crisis. Porsche just hasn't had a historical event take place for this generation.
reply to this comment
Agent001
- 2/19/2008 11:07:02 PM
View My AgentSpace
-9 Boost
So does Porsche need an answer to the 135 (Cayman performance/1-series price) more than anyone else?
001
EvoAudi
- 2/19/2008 11:11:43 PM
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+1 Boost
Yes and No, yes because they need sales and a performance image. No because it would dillute their image even more unless they dropped the Cayenne base model and the S while keeping the Turbo, and the GTS. And if they put the Cayman and Boxter under one model family and adding a 1-Series competitor.
EvoAudi
- 2/19/2008 11:12:45 PM
View My AgentSpace
-2 Boost
I am still a major Porsche fan though, no matter what any other brand throws at them.
zorbeeze
- 2/20/2008 2:00:23 PM
+2 Boost
"BMW is getting more and more popular with the modern 15-27 year old generation"
I really do not see where you're getting this info from. It wasn'T that long ago that i was in my late 20's and everyone i knew could afford a BMW but what they were really gunning for was a Porsche.
ericisamazing335
- 2/19/2008 11:08:03 PM
View My AgentSpace
+2 Boost
that picture says it all....
no
reply to this comment
Agent001
- 2/19/2008 11:19:09 PM
View My AgentSpace
0 Boost
What's wrong with the picture?
Are the girls too fun and pretty?
001
Obliv
- 2/20/2008 12:34:14 PM
+6 Boost
No, what hes saying is that BMW is for the badge, whereas porsche is for the driving enthusiast. BMW = poseur, Porsche = the real deal.
zorbeeze
- 2/20/2008 1:58:42 PM
+5 Boost
"BMW = poseur, Porsche = the real deal"
I couldn't have said it better myself. Never compare BMW to Porsche.
Agent001
- 2/19/2008 11:11:52 PM
View My AgentSpace
-10 Boost
We've already said the GT2 is amazing, but those aren't bread and butter high selling cars.
We're saying they're missing the boat with cars that could sell at high volumes like BMW's 3 or 1 series...
001
reply to this comment
DaHarder
- 2/19/2008 11:29:21 PM
+17 Boost
"We're saying they're missing the boat with cars that could sell at high volumes like BMW's 3 or 1 series..."
At What Cost? Diluting The Near Exotic Porsche Image?
Porsche IS One Of The Most Profitable Auto Makers Existent... They Need Not Worry About Competing With 'Lesser' Luxury Makes.
Ask Yourself This: Does Rolex Sit Around Worrying About Seiko's Next Timepiece Move - The Answer Is NO!
And It Matters Not One Iota That Seiko Makes Outstanding, Though Rather Ordinary, Timepieces.
reply to this comment
JRobUSC
- 2/20/2008 10:07:54 AM
0 Boost
except a Seiko would be an "appliance" watch compared to a Rolex, which is a passion purchase (doesn't tell time as well, still coveted by everyone). If Porsche is Rolex then Seiko is Lexus, not BMW. BMW or Mercedes could also very easily be Rolex in your analogy.
reply to this comment
henbmw
- 2/20/2008 10:30:18 AM
0 Boost
Hey daharder, no offense but why do you capitalize every word in the sentence?
reply to this comment
Targa
- 2/20/2008 10:55:06 AM
+2 Boost
I don't think Porsche was ever about selling the volume of BMW etc.
There are no cars that involve the driver more than porsche Even the boxster and the cayman are very good driving cars. I understood them making these cars as they are in the tradition of Porsche. There is no car out there like the 911. It is pure bliss to drive. These cars still are far more prestigious than anything BWM is putting out
The SUV and coming coupe? I don't know. I don't think they dilute the brand name, but they seem to be out of the traditional porsche. Porsche seems to do this every so often. 911 going along great.... lets make everything a front mount water cooled engine. (924, 944, 968, 928). All these cars failed. Now they have some good selling cars besides the 911 (boxster being the best) and they are going nuts with other stuff. I think the coupe will fail and eventually the SUV will too. But, like the 80s didn't kill the name, neither will this period.
reply to this comment
zorbeeze
- 2/20/2008 2:02:59 PM
+1 Boost
"We're saying they're missing the boat with cars that could sell at high volumes like BMW's 3 or 1 series"
WOW, you really know nothing about what Porsche stands for. Porsche does not want to be the high seller that the 3series or 1series are.
They don't want that nor should they try for that.
OMG your ignorant.
reply to this comment
4x4rules
- 2/21/2008 5:38:41 PM
+1 Boost
the 997 is one of the best porsches ever. their bread and butter. And its still the best track car that is a daily driver, turns heads, etc.
reply to this comment
Agent001
- 2/19/2008 11:12:55 PM
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+1 Boost
Would you spend $15k more than a 135i to own a Cayman?
001
reply to this comment
ICON
- 2/20/2008 2:27:27 AM
+9 Boost
GoObama-"BMW has had a bad decade" ????WTF
You are as delusional as your faith in your candidate. Keep drinking that Koolaide bud.
BMW's success over the last decade is the envy of everyone in the Luxury auto market. Get over your bias face reality and grow up you pathetic sycophant.
reply to this comment
Targa
- 2/20/2008 10:57:02 AM
+4 Boost
Yes, I would buy the S over the 135
reply to this comment
THESCOOTER
- 2/19/2008 11:14:18 PM
+11 Boost
Wow, for the first time I actually think someone there is on drugs. BMW the ultra-ubiquitous brand for shameless followers who have no idea how to make an individual decision becoming more than Porsche? Come on. Take a drive in SoCal or any other major city center in NA and look around, to drive a BMW is meaningless like having an iPod or drinking Starbucks. These are not the marquees that people aspire to, they are brands that people own and use on a daily basis. Yes Porsche pizazz has really lost its way like in the Carerra GT, that vehicle was terrible and truly without inspiration or imagination. The 911 continues to defy conventional engineering with it's layout and drive characteristics; yes, I mean the vehicle that is used as a benchmark for most sub 100K vehicles. Porsche is making some different choices these days, but make no mistake their bread and butter remains authentic. BMW has tried to change it up a few times over memory with different results, and let's wait and see what the 1-Series does to the brand, where the price walk to a 3-series will probably cannibalize more 3-series than conquest Cayman OR Boxster intenders. So let's get real, BMW is still the car for everyman - bring a dealer 299 a month and you too can drive one, Porsche still remains a truly aspirational brand offering no vehicle sub $40k which they insist they never will. Given their track record, who would doubt them. 318ti anyone!?
reply to this comment
ghosthunter
- 2/20/2008 12:25:48 AM
+4 Boost
exactly, i could not say it any better.
i admit i dislike Porsche. from an engineering point of view, with 60k, there are cars that are more fun to drive, more gadget to play with, more reliable if you can just see through the brand image. this may, indeed, include 001's beloved 135i.
but then we are not talking about engineering point of view, we are talking about brand prestige. sadly, bmw is no match for Porsche. here at socal, the leasing deal for BMW has always been GREAT. in fact, with 359 dollar/month, you can drive back a 328 with no problem (could have been better deals now), and when you see almost every college chick drive a bmw, you know there is no way in HELL can BMW be the new Porsche.
xj13
- 2/20/2008 1:19:08 AM
0 Boost
obama bin laden=
You have no idea. GO Hilary
reply to this comment
Kinger
- 2/20/2008 4:50:17 AM
+3 Boost
Actually the M1 was built by BMW, Lamborghini's financial position at the time meant that they couldn't built it so BMW's M-division resumed control of the project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M1
Once again you've let your delusional bias get in the way of the facts GoObama
reply to this comment
BMW328i
- 2/20/2008 7:44:45 AM
+1 Boost
Real smart comment from xj13 regarding Obama. Only an idiot would associate the first presidential candidate in decades to offer some hope to the US away from its current imperialistic aspirations with your number one enemy....
Anyway, back to cars! No-one can beat Porsche when it comes to pure driving feel. BMW slightly stumbled here with the M3 with complaints of numb steering feel etc. But most of the driving press is agreed that the Porsche 911, Cayman and Boxster are the benchmarks when it comes drivers' cars. Porsche is mainly a sports car manufacturer whereas BMW isn't although the latter makes some very good cars.
reply to this comment
07G35J
- 2/20/2008 10:27:31 AM
+5 Boost
Is GoObama08 the same as JoshLexus4Ever? I think they are the same guy. They both speak the same gibberish about Lexus being the best invention since sliced bread...
reply to this comment
chilipalmer
- 2/20/2008 11:41:54 AM
View My AgentSpace
+11 Boost
I sell Lexus' I must say that if we don't start attracting younger buyers in 20 years we will be Buick. I have to enter the Drivers License expiration date in the computer for our buyers every time I sell one. In this state your drivers license is good until you are 65, and 9 out of 10 times it will be expired inside of 2 years. Truly a frightening thought, I also sold Buick product for a number of years and the running joke was once you sell it do the paperwork quick, your customer wants to take delivery before their funeral. This will be Lexus in 20.
As far as the Porsche mystique is concerned I once saw a Porsche ad that sums it all up for me. It read something like this;
"First you saw it and you feel in love, the next year you decided you were going to buy one, and the next year you started kindergarten."
The best and most humorously true advetisement I have ever seen.
reply to this comment
chilipalmer
- 2/20/2008 11:55:13 AM
View My AgentSpace
+2 Boost
On another note to the flipside of obamas lexus is amazing rant-
When Porsche needed to streamline their production process mnay years ago to become profitable, who did they hire to consult?
Toyota.
I stand by my earlier comments, but that is rather interesting.
reply to this comment
iamdabest1
- 2/19/2008 11:16:41 PM
+6 Boost
i think the m3 is a great alternative to a porsche cayman S, but i still feel porsche is more exclusive.
porsche 911 turbo is the real deal.
the only thing i HATE about porsche is even if they had a 1 series competitor, it wouldnt compete because of the price after options.
i love the cayman S, but fully loaded its like 70k, you can get an M3 for less and probably obliterate the cayman AND have better reliabilty.
reply to this comment
iamdabest1
- 2/19/2008 11:18:54 PM
+1 Boost
obama bin laden, you are on crack !!!!!
reply to this comment
S4cabriofoxone
- 2/20/2008 1:00:49 AM
View My AgentSpace
+11 Boost
Okay, that's just absolutely ridiculous. There should be no political discussion here, but to call someone out because of their African middle name is childish at best. SHUT IT!
cdoke
- 2/19/2008 11:21:27 PM
View My AgentSpace
+4 Boost
Porsche is he world's most profitable automaker. They do this by selling a fair number of high-margin vehicles.
The last thing they need is to move a car into the classless, vapid, urbanite, 16-year-old girl riddled 1-series market.
reply to this comment
Agent001
- 2/19/2008 11:23:29 PM
View My AgentSpace
-5 Boost
That's a strategy of the past in my opinion...they need to wake up and have GREAT products in ALL segments.
001
Agent001
- 2/19/2008 11:26:58 PM
View My AgentSpace
-5 Boost
They still don't even have satellite radio and bluetooth in the 911!
001
checkNbalance
- 2/19/2008 11:38:52 PM
+7 Boost
Who Wants To Listen To The Highly Compressed 'Screeching' of Satellite Radio Anyway?
It's Like Listening To Mp3s Encoded at 64kbs - SONICALLY HORRIBLE!
Porsche Need Only Focus On Engineering/Performance, and Leave Gimmicks To Lesser Makers.
S4cabriofoxone
- 2/20/2008 1:02:19 AM
View My AgentSpace
+6 Boost
"They still don't even have satellite radio and bluetooth in the 911!"
Who cares?
Is this just you, trying to justify having a 335i sedan that you traded a C2S in for?
Targa
- 2/20/2008 11:06:25 AM
-1 Boost
"no sat and bluetooth"
The reason is they are waiting for the antenna to be able to built in to the windshield (next year) so they don't have to kill the lines on the car with a lame antenna.
mini22
- 2/19/2008 11:31:10 PM
+6 Boost
001-I don't see BMW as the new Porsche just yet. But saying that I think Porsche needs to wake up and rethink a little bit. Because of their policy of protecting the performance of the 911 at all costs they are ceeding some performance with their Boxster/Cayman lines. Clearly those cars could handle quite a bit more power. The sales of those cars are weakening because of cars like the Nissan 350Z,the Z4 and M cars.Now Audi is coming out with the TTS and BMW has just come out with the 135I.Porsche needs to turn up the power. With direct injection let me suggest the power ratings for the sportscar line up-
GT3-440HP with DI/Carrera S 400HP with DI/Base Carrera
350HP with DI/CaymanS and Boxster S 320HP with DI/Base Boxster and Cayman 270HP with DI. My assumtion is that with the DI fuel economy will be improved as well.I also think Porsche should hold the line on increasing prices. A base Cayman should not go above 50 grand and perhaps Porsche needs to charge a little less for options.(especially on Boxster/Cayman).The Cayenne needs the restyle ASAP. It is not an attractive car. The interior styling is not opulent enough. More luxurious materials would be the order of business. The new Panamera has styling that I would say is not ugly but it is a bit conservative compared to the Mercedes CLS,Aston Martin Rapid. BMW has had lousy styling but that's about to change. Porsche had better rethink it;s performance and styling or their future could take a downward turn.
reply to this comment
Agent001
- 2/19/2008 11:38:01 PM
View My AgentSpace
-6 Boost
In case you've forgotten, I'm one of Porsche's best customers...
http://www.autospies.com/news/REVIEW-001-makes-his-choice-for-the-best-all-around-sportscar-on-the-market-today-5967/
http://www.autospies.com/news/What-s-in-your-garage-Update-16300/
But I'm also a big BMW customer...
I just think BMW is outsmarting them in segments that will eventually hurt Porsche sales and customer image.
001
reply to this comment
JWalkerLegrande
- 2/21/2008 9:27:09 AM
+1 Boost
In fact, Volkswagen is Toyota of Germany. If anything, BMW can be compared to the Honda of the F1 glory years.
reply to this comment
DaHarder
- 2/19/2008 11:42:32 PM
+8 Boost
Like That Wasn't His Sole Motivation?
reply to this comment
audispy
- 2/19/2008 11:43:12 PM
+2 Boost
Excuse my ignorance but what the hell are you guys smoking.
BMW the new Porsche!? Who's ass was this clame pulled out of. I mean this article is a pointless war of the badges created to start another fanboy war. Who are we kidding, these two aren't even direct competitors. BMW is a high volum car maker that brings out a new model of car every other month, while porsche is considerably low volume, and much more sport oriented than luxury.
Sure BMW is creating good cars, but like Clarkson said, if you want to replace the benchmark you can't be just as good, you have to be 10 times as good.
reply to this comment
zyrl
- 2/19/2008 11:53:04 PM
0 Boost
yawn...
reply to this comment
ILikeLambo
- 2/21/2008 2:41:26 AM
+1 Boost
lol
t_bone
- 2/19/2008 11:57:32 PM
+4 Boost
Not many people "get it" anymore. Non-car types think that their SUV's can out-perform sports sedans on the street; sport sedan types now think that 0-60 makes chassis balance and any other classic sports car element irrelevant.
I'm am SO grateful that a handful of companies like Porsche are still building great machines the old way, with a balance of power and control, classic styling, and with just 2 seats as God intended.
I still hate the Cayenne, even as a dealer loaner, but I see no indications that they are dumbing down the 911 or Boxster/Cayman platforms because of it.
reply to this comment
huu76
- 2/20/2008 12:27:10 AM
-6 Boost
Uhhh, Porsche is still Porsche, there isn't 10 in every fob parking lot.
BMW "exclusivity" is now more affordable than ever with the 1-series, plus there performance isn't anything to brag about.
reply to this comment
Chip
- 2/20/2008 2:47:51 AM
0 Boost
"BMW "exclusivity" is now more affordable than ever with the 1-series"
The exclusive 135i costs 45 grand.
"plus there performance isn't anything to brag about."
Show me cars that perform better, handle as well, that cost the same. Prove it.
JRobUSC
- 2/20/2008 10:22:58 AM
+2 Boost
Before you get yourself in trouble here are the 135i test results from C&D, available on their website right now. Pretty awesome writeup as well. Not too bad for a $35k "entry level" BMW.
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.5 sec
Zero to 140 mph: 25.6 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 106 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 143 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 157 ft
Roadholding, 328-ft-dia skidpad: 0.89 g
EPA city/highway driving: 17/25 mpg
And I don't care that it's $45k with options. My 2002 330Ci was $45k with options (as was my 2006 330i), and it was half the car the 135i is. Hell, that 2002 330Ci was $6k more than a 128i would be now, and the 128i is also more car.
Chip
- 2/20/2008 4:14:38 PM
0 Boost
JRob, what I meant was the 135i isnt THAT affordable. Yes, the base is $35,000 but add the options and youre pushing $45,000, not cheap by any means. It is however cheap for the amount of performance youre getting. I also had two previous 330's, one a Ci, the other a ZHP and both of them cost that much, but both pale in comparison to the new turbo 1-series. Some of my friends think Im crazy for buying a 335i with every option, but to me, they could of charged more and it would still be worth it. These cars out perform others costing much more. That was my point.
JRobUSC
- 2/20/2008 4:29:45 PM
+3 Boost
Chip, I agree with you, I was responding to Huu. Who in typical Huu fashion has no idea what he's talking about.
1evlaudi
- 2/20/2008 12:29:27 AM
View My AgentSpace
-1 Boost
watch me get deboosted and probably rejected from that site
reply to this comment
1evlaudi
- 2/20/2008 12:29:59 AM
View My AgentSpace
-2 Boost
AGENT 001, WHAT EVER YOU ARE SMOKING I WANT SOME.
reply to this comment
S4cabriofoxone
- 2/20/2008 1:06:18 AM
View My AgentSpace
+4 Boost
"Sure they have some great rides like the GT2 but I'm referring to the everyday cars in the volume segments like the Boxster/Cayman/Cayenne/911's."
"Everyday?" Hardly. Anyway...
Boxster- awesome roadster that puts the Z4 to shame any day of the week. Not a bad price, to boot.
Cayman- ditto, but it puts the Z4 Coupé to shame, and with even better performance and style than its Boxster sibling.
911- duh. Do I even have to say anything?
Cayenne- the one weak(ish) link. Depending on how you approach it, it's either an overweight joke of a Porsche, or a competent sports/luxury SUV.
So, 001, exactly what were you referring to, especially considering the fact that Porsche has no interest in the 1/3 Series class and won't be building a "cheap" car any time soon?
reply to this comment
t_bone
- 2/20/2008 9:31:58 AM
+1 Boost
Agree on the Boxster putting the Z4 to shame. In fact, I have a friend who traded me his Z4 for my 986S on about 10 miles of canyon roads a couple years ago. Several weeks later he emailed me pictures of his new car...he'd been so blown away by the handling differences of the Boxster that he traded in his Z4 for one.
I was actually quite shocked at how poorly the Z4 handled and felt during that ride. It lurched very awkwardly over washboard and off-camber corners and was generally uncomfortable. I think a LOT was the problem was due to the runflat tires, but I understand they have since tweaked the suspension (it was an early Z4 I drove), but I still hated the feeling of sitting on top of the rear axle.
Now when I see a Z4, I just have a chuckle that obviously someone didn't do their homework and cross-shop with the Boxster. I'm afraid for a lot of people they simply have to have the very latest styling trend, and it isn't about the driving at all.
JRobUSC
- 2/20/2008 10:26:53 AM
+2 Boost
could be they didn't do their homework, or maybe they didn't think the slight handling increase was worth an extra $20k. Not everyone buying a Boxster or Cayman takes their cars to the track. Besides, you could get an M Coupe for the price of a base Cayman, and the base Cayman isn't beating the M Coupe anywhere. That sounds like doing their homework to me.
S4cabriofoxone
- 2/20/2008 5:34:33 PM
View My AgentSpace
+1 Boost
Extra $20K?
If you don't let Porsche tempt you with unnecessary options and go for a purist's Boxster, it won't run you over $50K, and if you're lucky it will be $46K. You can easily get a Z4 over $40K.
JRobUSC
- 2/20/2008 8:06:43 PM
+2 Boost
S4, notice I was comparing the Cayman and M Coupe, not the Boxster and Z4. Porsche is backwards from everyone else and charges more for the non-convertible Cayman than they do the Boxster. BMW, like everyone else, charges less for the M Coupe than they do the M Roadster. So because of that you can, very literally, get an M Coupe for the price of the base Cayman. As great as the Cayman is for the same price I'd take a 330hp M Coupe over a 245hp base Cayman any day.
S4cabriofoxone
- 2/21/2008 12:11:05 AM
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+1 Boost
I am actually not sure. The Cayman's perfect dynamics are just too tempting. The M Coupé's engine is great, but from what I've read it isn't all we expected it to be. Overall, though, I would stretch for the extra $10K and go for a Cayman S (-:
xj13
- 2/20/2008 1:20:29 AM
+1 Boost
Porsche don't miss the boat, they own the boat!!!
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xfifty
- 2/20/2008 1:23:45 AM
-5 Boost
2 years ago I posted an article here:
http://www.autospies.com/news/Has-Porsche-lost-its-magic-touch-8488/
To me Porsche was finished long ago and now all the execs are leaving one by one, very sad indeed.
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S4cabriofoxone
- 2/20/2008 1:34:35 AM
View My AgentSpace
+4 Boost
One-by-one? Is that so?
So the marketer has left, and they've all left?
Porsche will continue to laugh its way to the bank well into the next decade... and beyond.
GruntyDieselsRock
- 2/20/2008 4:12:59 AM
+3 Boost
Lets be realistic. The Boxster came out over 10 years ago. Whilst it is not as fast as some, it still handles and drives beautifully. The same can also be said of the 911. And whilst the look of a 911 is a little restrained when you line it up next to the new Nissan, on the road it looks just right. Yes familiar but then so does your partner after 25 years and there are many happily married people who still like their partners appearance, despite familiarity.
But lets be honest. The Cayenne is a foul pig. And absolute abomination. A dire piece of design. And the antithesis of everything that Porsche was before it appeared. Whoever gave this the green light should be kicked in to touch. Get rid of them. Hang them. Just yuk.
But here is the point. That BMW can get away with X5 and X6 says that, whilst BMW is a good drive, its brand had never been as focused as that of Porsche.
But Porsche cant survive selling on the past. They need new moedles that advance the game, And design wise a 4 door 911 isnt it. They need ground breaking, not stretched 911.
There was another famous marque that tried living in the past and then introduced a half baked volume seller to help crank up production. And that was Jaguar. For sale.
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freeagent
- 2/20/2008 6:01:25 AM
+1 Boost
The problem at Porsche is they are starting to make mode-level brand positioning decisions to the detriment of the overall brand. Why is there not a turbo/high performance Cayman? In order to protect the 911. This results in a vacuum below $100k to be filled by M cars, GT-Rs, etc. and suddenly Porsche is no longer differentiated as in the past,
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MaindrianPace
- 2/20/2008 6:29:44 AM
+4 Boost
Apples and Oranges!
I agree Porsche have lost their way abit with the cayenne and the panamera, they should stick to being small volume sports car manufacturer, whilst BMW can stick to making an excellent range of cool lookin' cars that drive really well, and sell really well, in most markets and most segments.
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Naper
- 2/20/2008 6:54:42 AM
+5 Boost
BMW makes great cars, but is it the new Porsche? I dont think so. Not even close.
Schwarzenbaur's new position at Audi is a good indication Porshce is protecting its investment in VW / Audi. The real question sould be.
IS AUDI THE NEW BMW
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1995e34
- 2/20/2008 7:27:06 AM
0 Boost
they'll be the next porsche as soon as they become exclusively a sports car manufacturer. they'd also need a car with a mid engine layout.
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1995e34
- 2/20/2008 7:28:38 AM
-1 Boost
a better question may be whether porsche is becoming the new bmw! suv's sedans, etc...
farabira1
- 2/20/2008 7:29:33 AM
+4 Boost
Agent 001, are you mad or something? What gets into you man. I mean i can see that you totally idolize BMW, almost as if like you worship the brand(look at his articles and you'll see that this dude totally digs bimmers) but how on earth can you compare a recycleable manufactured good (a BMW, or a MERC, or anything really) with the utterly magnificent porsches. Porsches are unique, and they have remained so for over a century, they have not given in to the trend of popular demand, but rather improved on their own and only philosophy, make cars that "have no substitute" because really if you have ever driven a 911, you'll know there is nothing quite like it. I mean the feeling is totally different, almost as if like the car is a living thing, the steering, the brake and the wheels work so seamlessly as if like you might think that you and the car are one (i see no other way to put it but it's almost as if like it is a living car), and simply BMW can not do it. Sales figure counts for nothing. And besides Porsches are nowadays selling in hundreds of thousands, and for a company selling only sports cars, it is a huge amount. I love Porsches, possibly the only german brand that i really like.
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1995e34
- 2/20/2008 10:04:34 AM
+6 Boost
"Porsches are unique, and they have remained so for over a century, they have not given in to the trend of popular demand..."
...CAYENNE?
ILikeLambo
- 2/21/2008 2:49:53 AM
+1 Boost
they made the cayenne to help some money to meet demands and help future models
conneem
- 2/20/2008 7:40:10 AM
-2 Boost