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Is Lexus Wisely Avoiding Going Head To Head Against BMW's M3 Convertible?

Agent009 submitted on 6/15/2009 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 9:27:43 AM

31 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: www.edmunds.com

Lexus has never been shy about mimicking its competition.

And its most recent form of flattery is the introduction of its "F" performance sub-brand. The first salvo is the 416-horsepower IS-F sedan, a direct competitor for compact German sport sedans such as the Audi S4/RS4, BMW M3 and Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG. Following BMW and Audi's lead, Lexus could produce an F version of its recently unveiled 2010 IS convertible.

True, IS-F sedans aren't exactly flying off of dealer lots; the company has sold 445 from January of this year through June 5. But it has been critically well received and buyers have shown a willingness to pay full price for them. What Lexus is most closely focused on, no doubt, is how direct competitor/inspiration BMW is doing with its M3 convertible.

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Is Lexus Wisely Avoiding Going Head To Head Against BMW's M3 Convertible?

About the Author

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
— Agent009 (View Profile)

User Comments

009, maybe you should inform your readers that M3 convertible handling is nowhere near to what they've been accustomed with the M3 coupe.

Weight:
M3 Coupe: 3590 pounds = 1628 kilograms
M3 Convertible: 4140 pounds = 1 877 kilograms

Handling rating: (excellent, very good, good, average, poor, very poor)
M3 Coupe: Excellent
M3 Convertible: Good

Braking rating: (excellent, very good, good, average, poor, very poor)
M3 Coupe: Excellent
M3 Convertible: Very Good

2009 BMW M3 Convertible handling comments:
Slalom: Not nearly as sharp or controllable as the M3 coupe or sedan. The electronic damping feels softer at its hardest setting, too. Skid pad: Soft, almost numb steering feel at the limits. Difficult to sense edge of front grip.

Sources:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=124954/pageId=136254
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=129086/pageId=143280
— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 10:29:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Convertibles gain weight. That's a fact. Even an IS-F Convertible will handle nowhere near an IS-F sedan or theoretical IS-F coupe. Laws of physics.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 10:59:51 AM | | Votes: 2

You're absolutely right, Willis. I only responded to 009 anti-Lexus pro-BMW propaganda.
— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 11:13:45 AM | | Votes: 5

Doesn't matter. M3 vert will still lap anything Lexus makes around a track. Convertible or not.
— Hantra (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 11:34:35 AM | | Votes: 2

Mrbratwurst- If you have been reading this site for the last 4 years or so you would know by now I am not a BMW fanboy.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 1:14:18 PM | | Votes: -2

^ That's becuase the BMW is designed for the track, and everything else is an afterthought. On the otherhand, Lexus understands that most people that are being these types of vehicle's, would rather have the car be more fun and handle better on the street than on a track. Sure, the ISF can go on the track and hang with a BMW, but at the end of the day, the Lexus ISF is more fun to drive back home in. The M3 has a lack of power on the street until you rev that motor up past the 4k RPM range. Can't do that most of the time in the city without rear ending someone or driving like a complete idiot.

— AMiodynski (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 12:06:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Your entire comment can be refuted by a dozen reviews by people who get paid to drive and write about cars.
— Hantra (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 12:22:03 PM | | Votes: 3

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid Amiodynski. As hard as Lexus tries to best BMW, they always fail to do so. The IS-F is just the latest example of this. BMW remains the benchmark and Lexus remains the follower.
— HSCenterconsole (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 12:23:28 PM | | Votes: 0

I think Lexus is more of the benchmark for luxury than BMW. BMW is the benchmark when it comes to performance. I dont think Lexus should try to make a performance vehicle. Its like Hyuandai making a high end luxury car.
— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 2:49:43 PM | | Votes: -1

Spoken like some one who has never driven a BMW, let alone a "M" car.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 5:18:03 PM | | Votes: 3

beemer fanbois can deboost AMiodynski, but he has a clearer picture of reality.

anybody can build a car for the track, or at least one that shows its best qualitites on a track. it doesn't take exceptional genius these days however, to stuff more horses under the hood than any SANE person would use on an everyday basis.

the truly exceptional machines these days, balance off power with everyday LIVABILITY, comfort, and reliability. this is why japanese vehicles rule the world in appeal and sales.

current issue of Motorcyclis mag uncovers this basic fact, which wannabees and benchracers are totally oblivious to.

they compare 5 new sporting motorcycles, including a Ducati that is track oriented and bred. altho' it makes more HP than all but one of the 3 japanese bikes, it is the LAST one the riders preferred on the street.
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/16/2009 3:16:13 AM | | Votes: -1

"the truly exceptional machines these days, balance off power with everyday LIVABILITY, comfort, and reliability. this is why japanese vehicles rule the world in appeal and sales."

Replace "japanese" with "German" and add the word "Handling" in there. If you do that then you would have a 100% true statement.

The Germans are just as Liveable as the Lexus, but offers more performance, better balace, and are more precise. That's why BMW sedans outsell Lexus sedans worldwide, even though the Lexus sedans costs less. People are fools. Lexus isn't there yet. Sorry.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 6/16/2009 10:04:34 AM | | Votes: 1

some gearheads affirm that there can never be such a thing as TOO MUCH power. but they likely have never been on a modern, high performance motorcycle. where indeed, too much is SIMPLY TOO MUCH! such is the state of the art in bike engines, that chassis and tire designs are the limiting factors, NOT absolute engine power.

honda has recognized that, and actually detuned their latest 600RR sport bike. nonetheless, it ended up being the FASTEST on the Streets of Willow track, setting better times than a pair of 1000cc bikes, AND the Ducati 1198. and being more livable and fun on the street as well!

Lexus likewise ignores the boyracers who always demand maximums over BALANCE. and liveablitiy, which includes AVOIDING service bays.
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/18/2009 4:17:15 AM | | Votes: 1

Everyone knows that Lexus can build cars that are better than any car out there. Yeah right!!

Smart move Lexus. The more Lexus attempts to compete with BMW, the more they are exposed as not being able to do so.
— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 12:09:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

OF COURSE lexus builds the best cars, when you wisely ignore the immature boyroacers' rash opinions.

when you get to the GROWN UPS' cars, the S, 7, A8 and LS, where comfort means more than ability to clip apexes, the LS460 gets the HIGHEST RATING in the road tests that CR has ever given to ANY car: 99 out of 100.

the MB S550 scores 86. the Audi A8L a mere 77. SAME as the Camry LE Four, and edged out by the v6 camry XLE at 87 and the Lexus ES at 91.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/18/2009 5:10:56 AM | | Votes: 1

and these are the ROAD TEST results.

when you factor in RELIABILITY (which most think is all CR does; but they do own and USE one of the largest privately owned test tracks), then the TOYOTA/lexus juggernaut runs over ALL competitors.

europhiles like to say the ES is 'merely' a reskinned camry. yet it outclasses most euro cars within $10,000 of its price. and even the REAL camry will show them up too!
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/18/2009 5:19:56 AM | | Votes: 1

You can't out do the original. You will be a pretty damn good follower though...
— inspirion7 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 1:32:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

The IS-F isn't eaxctly flying off of shelfs. Ha, wasn't it reported that the IS-F is selling more than the M3, and where I'm at i've only seen 2 M3 coupes, and 1 M3 sedan, but have seen 10 IS-F's, and that is in my area, alone.

But really, the IS-F needs a LSD and a true coupe version, with that Axis-5 bodykit.
— Inline6 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 3:29:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Yes, because the observations you've made in a specific geographic area can be applied to both BMW's and Lexus' national sales. That makes perfect sense. False.

BMW officially does not release M3 sales. It is included in their overall 3-Series figures. I would be curious to know the sales of the M3 and C63 now that we have IS-f stats.

As for your observation, where do you live? Here in Connecticut, M3's seem to be everywhere (mostly in cab and coupe form, the sedan is far rarer) while the IS-F is near non-existant.
— HSCenterconsole (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 3:49:11 PM | | Votes: 3

"where I'm at i've only seen 2 M3 coupes, and 1 M3 sedan, but have seen 10 IS-F's.."

you must live in an high class neighborhood, folks who drive bimmers can't afford Lexus, hence, bimmers can be seen everywhere in the low class urban areas :)
— sector (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 3:57:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

That was a joke right ?

Sure made me laugh.
— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 11:01:56 PM | | Votes: -1

You have a valid point. I've seen some people who can't afford a new Lexus drive a used BMW.
— wins555 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/16/2009 9:12:10 AM | | Votes: 3

HSC, I live in Annapolis, actually right near the Lexus dealership and the BMW dealership. Funny how the BMW dealership has 2 black M3's, one coupe, one sedan, both 70+k, both manuals. Now, I haven't been to the Lexus dealership to see what the IS-F goes for, but I reckon less than the M3. which could be the reason why I see so many IS-F's...also most of the IS-F's are driven by women...the only ones I've seen driven by men are the black and the silver ones.
— Inline6 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/15/2009 10:17:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

The majority of Lexus IS cars I have seen are the IS250. Do not know the actual percentage, but would estimate the sales of IS 250 vs. IS 350 is 4:1. About 70% of IS250 drivers seen were women. Live in South Bay area of L.A.
— Dr550 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/16/2009 3:42:11 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I do not believe they are *avoiding* more so they are not participating in a niche market in a poor economic environment.

What would be interesting to see: profit margins on the IS-F
— Agent00R (View Profile)

Posted on 6/16/2009 10:46:37 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

445 units sold this year....that's abysmal. they can't possibly break even on that car. in the current cost cutting environment, i wouldn't be surprised if they discontinued the ISF sedan. the only reason to keep it going at that small volume is to save face.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/16/2009 1:53:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

BMW = bencmark for marketing excellence. They just happen to know how to bolt together a car.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/16/2009 11:02:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

you are mistaken...that's lexus' title. lexus spends FIVE TIMES bmw on marketing in the US. nearly $500MM a year. takes a lot of smoke and mirror to make people think their ES is something more than a camry. they're genius marketers.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/17/2009 10:44:19 AM | | Votes: -1

My BMW 2001 330Ci Convertible was not bolted together very well. Over 7 years and 126,600 miles I had...
6 months I needed a 4 wheel alignment, every 6 months!!!
5 Bent Wheels
4 Bent lower control Arms
3 Bushings that went Kaput
2 rear differential Seals went Kaput
1 A/C hose broke
1 Radiator Neck was leaking and cracked
1 Power Steering pump went Kaput
1 Water Pump went Kaput
1 Kidney Grill Popped out from the flimsy plastic bracket that died
The Passenger power seat module was replaced twice and still never worked right
The trunk mounted 6 disk CD changer was jammed when I went around a corner and never worked right after that and the dealer did not know how to fix it.

FINALLY the last straw was when The B fell off the Rondel and I had an MW instead a BMW!!

— pennfootball (View Profile)

Posted on 6/17/2009 11:31:17 AM | | Votes: 2

LOL!

so your Bring More Wampum became a Mug Wump!?

or simply, "More Wampum! More Wampum! if you don't cave to my demands for More Wampum, i'm gonna blow another nuke! or fire another missile!" lol!
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/18/2009 4:00:02 AM | | Votes: 1

lexus is indeed wise.

everyone knows convertibles are more prone to rattles and squeaks. so they don't encourage sullying their rep for the BEST put together bodies --and cars generally-- by offering convetibles with excessive power.
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/18/2009 4:03:26 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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Is Lexus Wisely Avoiding Going Head To Head Against BMW's M3 Convertible?

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