53 Votes

Is The Argument Audi's Are Heavy And Slow (Even The R8) Still True?

Agent001 submitted on 8/10/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 2:54:03 PM

100 user comments | Category: Report Cards | Source: www.autospies.com

Tag Links: 2009 Audi A4, BMW

Everyone knows that Audi makes some REALLY nice vehicles.

Sexy exterior design and class leading interior quality is always a given with their products.

And its documented in almost every review about them.

But when it comes time to write the BOTTOM LINE of the review almost EVERY review says they like Audi but they found the vehicles heavier and slower than the competition.

And so they usually lose to BMW's.

Here is a PERFECT example of what I'm talking about in theis mont's Car & Driver...

In their review of the new A4 editor Mark Gillies said this and I quote:

"The latest A4 is a nice piece, but I found myself underwhelmed by it-as it happens with EVERY Audi I drive, even the R8"

It then goes on to say how nice the interior is and finishes with:

"But no matter how hard Audi tries to disguise it, the A4 is a nose heavy car and drives that way. When it comes to driver involvement, give me a Cadillac CTS over the A4"

Do you think he is being fair and do you agree that until Audi's drive like BMW's (or in this case the Caddy CTS), Audi cannot own the top seed in the space?

Are reviewers and customers really saying to Audi, give me a better looking BMW with nicer interior quality?

Let us know what you think...

Is The Argument Audi's Are Heavy And Slow (Even The R8) Still True?

About the Author

FWD Torque Steer. Absolute proof the Devil exists.
— Agent001 (View Profile)

User Comments

An A4 feels slow and underwhelming because it is. Who buys an A4 for it's performance? As for the R8, it's not the fastest thing in a straight line, but in the corners it's faster than most. You can argue that even a Z06 is faster on a track than the R8, but I'll guarantee that if you put an average driver in both, he'll be faster in the R8.
— wedouglas (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 3:19:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 11

I watched the R8 beat a Z06 on a track on TV, but the vetter did have the straight line advantage. I believe it was on supercars expesed or a show similar to it. they showed side byside videos of the run and showed the agility of the R8 compared to the Z06, and the R8 devistated the Z06 in the slalom. Not bashing the Z06, because it is not heavy and slow, so if the R8 out handled it then it is neither heavy nor slow either. As far as racing between the Z06 and the R8, it depends on the track, the Z06 will beat it on a track with less left to right transitions and chicane's, while the Z06 would beat it on tracks with less tight turns and more straightaways. I respect the vette, however, the R8 is just sooooo much nicer.
— 85bmw745i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/13/2008 9:52:47 PM | | Votes: 1

The new A4 2.0 Quattro is faster than a 328xi, C300 4 matic and IS250...
A few years back the A4 2.0T Quattro manual was still faster than the competition... not sure what this is all about.
They may be heavy, but that is probably why also they have more cars with Double 5 star safety ratings than anybody else.....
— AlexTx (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 3:22:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

and now you're not relavent again as usual. We're not dumb. Facts are facts and you just have to realize that. I admit Lexus is nice, but there are problems just like other auto makers.
— Carboy (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 4:32:47 PM | | Votes: 5

"but the Lexus IS was recently voted as one of the best drivers cars on the market being the number one choice for motoring enthusiast seeking some serious fun."

As voted on by MichaelTaylor in his mom's living room.
— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 6:40:46 PM | | Votes: 9

actually your wrong......a recent test of the A4 3.2 showed it to be slower than the 328xi, and of course much slower than the 335xi, the C350 is also much faster than the A4 3.2 all while having only 3 more horses under the hood. Not to mention most reviews on driving dynamics of the new A4 have been lackluster and all seem to mention the same problem the A5/S5 has a lack of steering feel and feedback, with a ride that isnt that great.....as far as the last generation it never fared well in comparison test as it dynamically wasnt that great, and was always for the most part a back of the pack(low ranked) competitor while ironically the last generation 3 series had barely 230hp in the 330i yet was still a wide margin faster than the all new A4..........poor ride, very light steering, and slow given its power.......
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 7:33:51 PM | | Votes: 5

In a reacent Car and Driver road test it posted a 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and a quarter mile in 14.3 seconds. That's hardly slow.
In germany Sport-Auto magazine was very impressed with the A4 chassis. In a test it posted a lap time on hockenheim track of 1:18.0, in this test it was head to head against the Mercedes C350 which only did a 1:19.6 and thus got annihalated by the A4. Then there is the BMW 335i sedan which is allot more powerfull as we all now, yet it also only posted a laptime of 1:18.0 not faster then the A4 despite it's power advantage. Only the 335i Coupe managed to just outrun it with a 1:17.8
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 5:14:23 AM | | Votes: -2

Ok michaeltaylor here is my opinion to your comments... When I went to buy my current BMW I loved the look of the IS, I still think it looks even better than my 335i. But when I drove them both, within 20mins of each other, there was no comparison in the fun to drive dept. The BMW was the better driver, faster, better in the turns, better steering feel. I wanted to really like the Lexus, but it really was not as much fun. So I went with the BMW because I actually like to "drive" my car. I am curious if you have even ever driven anything else other than your Toyota Camry or any other Toy/Lex product?
— atomicbri (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 8:13:48 AM | | Votes: 4

MT,

Just STFU. You're reputation on this website is -1000 now.

IS250 beating a C350 and a 335i? are you friggin kidding me?

You need to learn how to drive. But you'll never do so driving your father's Camry. I wonder if you badge your Camry with L badges and think it's an ES. Douche.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/12/2008 7:09:24 AM | | Votes: 1

Thanks for the laugh.... just like all your meaningless posts..... I need that laugh... idiot..
— AlexTx (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 5:50:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

double 01, can you change your display picture? its looks pretty disturbing btw
— KZ258 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 3:41:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

But my teeth look so nice in it ;)

001
— Agent001 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 3:44:43 PM | | Votes: 0

All of those nice appointments, materials and stuctural bracing do add weight, but I'd rather have them than pay sometimes more money for the below standard finishes and appointments offered by BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and others. Audi is usually tops in safety, worksmanship, and design while still being fun to drive. I don't drive on race tracks everyday day going to work or anywhere else. Having a 3 series that can knock a few seconds off a lap time at Infineon is so not important to me.
— Neverfollow (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 4:17:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Exactly, who actually tracks their cars? Or is street racing that important to you. The BMW or Caddy might be faster, but the Audi A4 3.2 is fast enough. Who cares if the Accord V6 is faster, are you going to stoplight race them?

As for the 2.0T A4 it gets great MPG & is easily tuned if that's what you're looking for. Also the new Audi platform with the engine/trans pushed back & the front axle pushed forward really does improve handling.

— aarononymous (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 5:17:57 PM | | Votes: 1

Giving someone a hard time about being able to afford a 3 series is like giving them a hard time about wanting to be a yuppy...
— wedouglas (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 5:02:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Audi makes good cars some are fast, however when compared to bmw they are not as fast or dynamic, there are some R8 and RS exceptions. But your average audi is not dynamic car.
— Larry (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 5:10:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

He may be the only journalist who has written that he is underwhelmed by the R8. On the other hand, it shows you how fast this segment in progressing - last year the R8 was the toast of the town - this year it's yesterdays news and the drool is falling on the GTR. What will it be next year?
— pcar4evr (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 5:36:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

You make a good point there. This segment is moving very fast. Those brands that sleep, will very soon weep.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 9:54:32 AM | | Votes: 0

says who? Just because the tail doesn't slide out doesn't mean it's a slob, or is drifting the fastest line around a turn?
— aarononymous (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 7:32:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Oh please...a well driven Renault Clio will hand any BMW its ass on a nice country road. Over-rated pieces of crap.
— nozferatu (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 1:50:37 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Audi A4 3.2 prestige Quattro is more expensive at $43K than the comparable BMW 335i sedan which starts at only $40K

No clue where this "You can't afford the Bimmer" arguement is coming from.

All those who think that Audi's are cheap, please read this excerpt from Car and Driver:

How much of a premium? According to Audi, its ’09 pricing is expected to be similar to that of the previous model. We think that means it will creep up slightly. The base price of our 3.2 Quattro test car should be about $39,000, which is roughly the same as a BMW 335i’s and more than the base price of a Mercedes-Benz C350. Audis were once the value choice among the big three Germans, but this is no longer the case."

FYI the Audi A4 is more expensive base than the BMW 335i.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 5:58:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Yeah, but have you priced out a 335i lately, loaded it will cost you $50k.

-00J
— Agent00J (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 6:47:39 PM | | Votes: 3

base prices are you kidding me who cares. nobody gets them base show me a 335 that you can get for 45k not happening not happening on the a5 your talking 50k when your done even more closer to 55k
— markanthony0419 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 9:51:11 AM | | Votes: 1

One thing I've noticed, most people who own an Audi for a period of time, don't seem to stay loyal to the brand (myself included). I had the most unreliable car I've ever owned with my 2001 S4 and quickly dumped it. A friend of mine had a 2002 A6 2.7T that spent more time in the shop than in his driveway. And my brother-in law bought a 2006 A8, only to sell it a year later and declare it was "the worst car I've ever owned". All of us now drive BMW's.

I'm on my 4th 3-series now and they have never given me any headaches and I will continue to be loyal to the brand for the fact that they live up to their reputation. Audi on the other-hand does not.
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 6:00:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Funny you should say that...my 1993 CS90 Quattro has never, ever let me down. In fact, it once went for two weeks with about 1/10th of the normal oil level. And didn't complain. I guess you got stuck with a lemon, mate. That's what happened with my '02 Honda Odyssey too. Bought it because of it's purported reliability, my rear end.
However, it is very true that most people WILL NOT drive their cars on city streets as they would on a track. Who cares if your BMW is .5 second faster to 100 klicks? If you are a good enough driver to be able to attain factory times, you should not be in a 335, a CTS, a C350, and so on...And you're never going to be able to enjoy the 120 km/h cornering abilities too often either.

So what do you buy the car for, then? That type of "entry-level luxury car", as much of an oxymoron as that may be, is usually, and mark the use of diction here, not ALWAYS, bought for comfort, refinement, and a not insignificant visual factor. In which case, I shan't be the only one to say that Audi has the inside line.
:)
— Audilover (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 8:16:23 PM | | Votes: 2

"I guess you got stuck with a lemon, mate."

It wasn't a lemon. As I said, every other Audi owner I knew was experiencing the same issues (which there are too many to list)

I don't understand what you're saying in the rest of your post. But I didn't buy my 335i because of 0-60 times or tracking ability, I bought it because it was the best car I'd driven in years and it excelled in the areas you mentioned, comfort, performance, design, refinement, build quality etc. Nothing about the 335i seems entry-level.
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 9:06:27 PM | | Votes: 1

You can always find a story to match your side of the argument. For example - while I mostly enjoyed owning my BMW - it was by FAR the most unreliable car I have ever owned.

3 sets of bushings
1 waterpump imploding
heated seats that stopped working
door lock actuator failed
coupe trim sagging
moonroof stuck open
power seats stopped moving
memory seats would only go in one direction
key failure
stereo replaced cause it wouldn't turn on

and that is what I remember.....

The car cost me more in repairs then what I paid for it!

On the other hand - my best friend has owned 4 with no issues. Point being - if you had a bad experience - it doesn't always reflect on the company as a whole. My VW has given me 0 problems to date. But that doesn't mean that everyone is sharing the same experience as me.

— CRS2112 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 9:09:49 PM | | Votes: 2

This is true, however MY opinion of the brand was ruined and my friends and family had their own experiences that were similar. And to be honest, I have heard nothing but terrible things regarding Audi quality since.

What model BMW did you have? It most of been an older model if those problems you mentioned weren't covered under warranty.
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 9:21:59 PM | | Votes: 2

It was a 2003 325ci. I bought it with 39k miles on it. All my issues started around 53k miles. I used to tell people it was a love/hate relationship. When it wasn't in the shop getting fixed - I loved it. Most people on the e46 site I frequented talked about the same issues a lot. The other thing I was not happy with the car was the horsepower. It was surprisingly slow. It was a 325 - so I half expected that. Should have opted with the 330......

I would buy another BMW as long as it was new and warrantied. I don't have much faith in long term ownership of the car.
— CRS2112 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 9:30:44 PM | | Votes: 1

I guess it is a luck of the draw in the dealership inventory lot. My mother owned 4 different Audi's and she never had a problem with any of them, course she kept them for only 3 yrs or so cause my mother loves to lease.(Don't ask me why, she thinks since she is a real estate agent, her non-work car should be leased since she doesn't drive it often) and none of them ever gave her an issue. Only time in the shop was to get scheduled maintenance. I had a 1997 BMW 3series that saw the shop a few more times than I would have liked, but my current one has not had any issues at all so far, ditto with our VW. SO like I said, guess it is a luck of the draw as to if you get a lemon or not.
— atomicbri (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 8:22:33 AM | | Votes: 2

I'm sorry but service experience dating back 5 to 6 years isn't really relevent anymore. The cars they build today are every bit as reliable as just about anything else out there including Lexus. 2 of the cars you mention used the 2.7T which, if modified, could cause several problems including turbo failure. If left alone however, the engine ran fine with very few problems. For those that decide to "chip" their 335 BMW's, I suspect they'll eventually encounter similar problems down the road. The Audi A8L was reported to be one of the most reliable cars sold in the US according to JD Power and Associates not long ago.
— Neverfollow (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 1:55:39 PM | | Votes: -1

My 2.7T S4 wasn't chipped, the A8L fell apart and was absolute junk, and my the 335i has a DINAN "Stage 2" upgrade that is completely covered under factory warranty. Anything else?
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 8:17:47 PM | | Votes: 1

Similar to Audilover, I never had a problem with my 02' S4. Tipping 100k on her 7th birthday, the only thing she needed replacing was an aux pump. Secondly, she was chipped since 5k and Stage 2 since 8k, and tracked once. Majority of miles is highway driven and respectfully used when in city.

As for this A4 article, I don't care and would never consider it a purchase. If BMW would take my 200,000 Audi points (valued at approx. $2,000) and use that as deposit or toward a purchase, I would easily consider a BMW, even if two-door M3. Toddler would have to suffer the agonizing entry into the rear seat. However, with balanced performance and over-achiever ergonomics, the Audi S4 continues to win my heart for practicality when it comes time for "me time" vs. family hauler (only Avant). There are really no other options unless you could convince me why to keep two S4s in the drive-way.
— NoFHoes (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 8:58:28 PM | | Votes: 1

What the hell are you talking about "Stage 2" ?

Thats a brand new BMW exclusive DINAN package available only through authorized BMW DINAN dealers. DINAN doesn't do Audi and never has.

Nice lie of a post though. Sad really.
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 9:38:59 PM | | Votes: 1

Chip, Ignorance is bliss.

there have been stage 1,2,3 upgrades available on the Audi 2.7t almost since launch.

Considering you supposedly owned an S4 and cliam BMW exclusivity to some Stage 2 name maybe you are the one full of BS. Plus I do not think any A8 has ever "fallen apart" they are built like the proverbial brick sh*t houses.
— steve27t (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 11:13:47 PM | | Votes: 0

DINAN is exclusive to BMW. I have no idea if there is a "Stage 2" performance upgrade available from someone else that caters to Audi, and quite frankly, I don't care to know, because their cars are junk.

And while I don't give two sh*ts whether or not you believe me that my in laws A8 was crap, I can assure you it was. If you choose not to believe me, then thats your choice. However I don't see the point in fabricating such a story.

Audi realized their flaws with the 2.7T, thats why they axed it after a couple years, and put the lame @ss 3.2 in the new A6. Any reasoning for that? Didn't think so.
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 8/12/2008 1:42:22 AM | | Votes: 0

Chip, EVERYONE has stage 1,2,3. Wake up before you start hatin'
— aarononymous (View Profile)

Posted on 8/13/2008 7:30:48 PM | | Votes: 1

Car and Driver tested some rivals...

http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/82840/1050113/version/1/file/greatfor38_pow.pdf

http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/115198/1563653/version/1/file/2009+Audi+A4+3.2+Quattro+-+Spec+Sheet.pdf

What I find amazing about the B8...it's speed with AWD weight, low hp-265/243-tq (compared to the competition), and it's an automatic that's been tested, yet it's as fast as the 300 hp Infiniti G35/37.
— 610looper (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 6:00:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Why is a bicycle better than a BMW?

The answer is: amazinBimmer

See the company and the car can do what they like, but the fact is that the PEOPLE who own they are ALL, to a greater or lesser degree tainted with the amazinBimmer mentality.

So whatever the car can do, or what it is like is irrelevant. Fact of the matter is that it is an IDIOT brand, because IDIOT'S own them!

Go to any blog on any site and you will find the same kind of idiots saying amazinBimmer kind of things. Or go down any street in any city and LOOK at how BMW'S are driven you will see amazinBimmer's driving them.

Any kind of transport, any kind of money, its all worth it, to not drive the only car that instantly announces to the world that you are a brain free zone.
— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 6:57:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

In a performance car, things are easier if it is a lightweight i.e. lotus, Corvette but being heavy doesn't automatically mean poor performance i.e. GTR. Nose heavy is a different ball game as it requires electronics to compensate for natural balance.

Stone
— stone (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 7:06:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

"only reason it is nose heavy POS becasue audi never invested in a proper rwd chassis architecture becasu eit is essentially a badge engineered vw.

they then compensate (try to) for bad architecture by making it awd but it is still 57% fw bias. So, it ends up "plouging forward" and not willing to change directions quite as better engineered cars such as BMW and Benz."

Just incase anyone sane takes this seriously, the only Audi car that shares a platform with a VW is the A3 but they have different suspensions, etc...the TT has 50% aluminum frame, not the MK5 chassis.

As for the A4/A5/A6/A8 there is no platform sharing with VW. The new platform shifts the engine/trans rearward & the front axle forward. With the quattro it was always 50/50 front to rear distribution under normal driving conditions and the new quattros have 40f/60r power distribution, 57% front bias is just incorrect. Might not be RWD but that is not the most important factor in a car or MB & BMW wouldn't offer so many AWD cars & SUVs.
— aarononymous (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 8:06:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

What BMW does amazinbimmer even drive?
— wedouglas (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 8:38:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

oh he has an M5 & 750il & his "wife" has a 530i, seems very probable.
— aarononymous (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 8:47:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Well since someone deleted my last comment, I'll try to be PC this time so the babies won't cry.

Amazin- Please get rid of your BMW and stop giving us all a bad name.

As a multiple BMW/Mini owner I'm sorry to everyone for Amazin's poor attitude, I swear most of us are not this way.

To the topic. Audi produces fine automobiles, and no the link to VW is not as direct as a couple years ago. I see more VW parts in the 997. No body ever brings this up ????

Is it a bad thing my 09 Mini JCW has same digital read outs as my 08 E90 M.
NO, make one quality part and cut cost by using it across a wide range.
everybody wins.

— adoptgreyhounds (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 8:54:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Don't worry, adoptgreyhounds, we realize not all BMW drivers are jerks. (I used to own two BMWs myself, btw.) But amazinBimmer is probably the worst fanboy on this site. MichaelTaylor gives him a run for his money, but amazin's arrogance gives him the edge.

Audi has the annoying habbit of introducing its more modestly powered models first. I suggest people withold judgement on the new B8-platform A4 until the S4 comes out next year. It will be phenomenal.
— Audiphile (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 9:08:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

you think he owns one? I dodn't now you could drive at 15.

More likely his boyfriend left him for an Audi owner, hence the hatred for the brand.
— aarononymous (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 9:14:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

If that's true, he has 3 cruise control cars. Those cars suck on anything other than a straight line, so he shouldn't really be talking about performance. The only BMW's worth of performance discussion are the new M3 and the M3 CSL.
— wedouglas (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 3:19:22 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

These guys have a point, amazinBimmer. Put your money where your mouth is. What kind of car do YOU currently drive? And assuming you are not 17 or younger, what car did you drive beforehand?
— Audiphile (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 9:12:53 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

The Audi A4 3.2 Quattro loaded with S-line package comes in at $54,320. This is clearly just as much, and most likely more than a fully-loaded BMW 335i.

End of discussion. Audi's are no longer the cheapter alternatives to BMWs or Mercedes-Benzes.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 9:20:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I think there's only one guy arguing that, and he doesn't seem to take reasoning very well.
— aarononymous (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 9:30:54 PM | | Votes: 1

I think it's hilarious you're ranting and raving about the Audi now being the same price as the BMW. Why is this so important to you? Having a higher priced car does not make it superior, nor does it put it on the same level as others. But just to burst your bubble, a 335xi sedan with every available option including metallic paint is $56,370. And thats for the time being. BMW is raising prices with the facelift in September.

— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 9:31:44 PM | | Votes: 4

He's countering amazin's argument that people buy Audi because they can't afford a BMW.
— aarononymous (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 9:38:55 PM | | Votes: 1

Yes he has it backwards.

People buy BMW because they have the brains of and wish to be thought of as being like amazinBimmer.

People buy Audi generally for their style, not because of anything to do with the price of BMW's.
— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 6:22:21 AM | | Votes: -1

I think the only poor person here is you Staar, because the difference between Mercedes & BMW owners income is roughly $14,000 dollars a year and less than $5,000 with Audi, so do you consider this to be a drastic sum of money? I think it's safe to say that anyone pulling in $150,000 dollars a year is extremely well off.

Also, any reason you're referring to their SUV's as TRUCKS? And there we have it folks, Staar is a really a child at home listening to rap music dreaming of an Escalade with 24's.
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 10:35:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

You're truly the saddest person I've ever encountered on this site.

Not only are you unbelievably stupid and immature, but your ranting and raving only makes you look more pathetic and desperate for attention than anyone can possibly comprehend. I also think deep down, you crave a BMW, why else would you bring them up in every sentence. They obviously intimidate the hell out of you, otherwise you would just go about your business and discuss cars on here like the rest of us "normal" human beings. Your childish behavior only reinforces what an impact BMW has had on the car market.

I feel sorry for you Staar, it must really suck to be such a worthless person.
— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 2:35:35 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Actually chip anyone who owns a BMW is a whole lot sadder, since the world does not just think, but knows that they are a wannabe amazinBimmer!

Why in the world would one do that to themselves?
— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 6:32:34 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Same thing is happening to BMW. The residuals are quite close.
— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 10:44:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

go look at a 7 series and see how bad it depreciates... $ to $ the A8 depreciates less..
THe A6 actually has a higher resale value than the 5 series at the auction, with the 5 costing more... ouch.
Amazingidiot talks about Audi leases being bad.. no they are not.. they reflect more the market than the inflated residuals that BMW has been doing for year.
Lease a Beemer and see if you can get out of it... Nope... not gonna happen.
Local dealer had a A5 for a client that wanted to trade in his 06 X5.... he's buried in it.. did not get the A5..
— AlexTx (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 10:56:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

be defensive if you like but the Audis especially the A8 has always had a horrible resale value.....in fact in many resale value top lists by brand.....they are ranked low.....
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 12:15:30 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Small price to pay not to be a BMW driver and have the world think of you as being a person of amazinBimmer mentality.

Heck drive the Audi and throw it away afterwards and it would still be cheap at the price!
— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 6:40:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Audi have built their name on Quattro. On any damp or wet road the Quattro will leave your 2 wheel drive cars strugling for grip while you take off just as fast as if it were dry. My first test drive of a Quattro back in late 90's was a A8 and I was instructed to put one side of the car on a grass verge and take my hands of the wheel at about 40 mph to demonstrate the Quattro system. I was sold on Quattro from that moment and have owned 3 since and driven many others, including the Audi Driving Experience and driven on a track in a RS4. RWD, FWD it does not matter, Quattro is superior to either. They banned AWD from Formula 1 for that reason, and when Audi came to rallying with Quattro they cleaned up! Powerfull Mercs and BMW's need so much electronic trickery to keep them on the road, unless you are an expert driver, you better not switch any of it off.
— steve27t (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 11:11:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-FLbgL7KKQ

DISCUSSION OVER.
— Fan1234 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2008 11:59:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

Umm, Discussion reopened.

Lets see, 2 year old video. BMW's x-drive has been completely redone since the E46. The test showed the RX, Volvo and X5 going up a very steep hill, then once the Allroad appeared, it was struggling at the bottom, then magically reappeared at the top of the hill. We didn't actually see that car clear the hill nor how it looked doing so. Not to mention some cars started slower than others and approached from different angles. What a stupid video.

Not to mention, where I live, it snows maybe 5 days out of the year, so I'll keep the RWD for the 360 days it doesn't.
— DonovanGT (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 2:49:42 AM | | Votes: 2

DonovanGT.

Get real, the Allroad has a Torsen diff. that will put power to any 1 wheel that has traction, it is superior to other AWD systems and the video proved it.
— steve27t (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 8:33:06 AM | | Votes: -1

The A4 in question is actually quicker than the comparable CTS.
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 12:27:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Most German cars these days are overweight pieces of lard.

Gone are the days when a GTI weighed only 2300 lbs, was still quick with a 110 HP 8V or 134 HP 16V...and cornered like it was a go-kart...AND got 35 MPG to boot.

Today's German cars are made for wannabes who think being seen in an M3 or A4 with a turtleneck or dirty jeans is cool...while wearing cheap cologne like Joop.

I'll gain more respect for Audi, BMW, or Benz when they can actually make cars that are light, perform well, and do it with small, efficient engines.

Why is everyone amazed at Benz for making a fast car with an AMG engine the size of a Mini? BFD.
— nozferatu (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 1:37:07 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

"Most German cars these days are overweight pieces of lard."

Ah, save the Miata and Lotus Elise, what cars are not "overweight pieces of lard" this is not a regional issue, its a world wide issue.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 4:46:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Most Japanese cars are lighter than their German equivalents. Besides, where'd all that German engineering go then? Oh yes..I remember now..it was just an advertising ploy.
— nozferatu (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 12:12:10 PM | | Votes: -1

Yeah right

The Honda Legend 3.5 V6 weighs more then an Audi A8 4.2 quattro.
A Lexus LS600 weighs more then an Audi A8 W12 and even a Mercedes S65.
The new Mitsubishi Evo X is nutching 1600kg and weighs more then the new and allot bigger Audi A4 2.0T quattro.
A RWD Nissan 350Z weighs the same as the AWD Audi A5 3.2 quattro
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 2:11:25 PM | | Votes: 3

Funny...you're comparing an ALL STEEL FRAME Legend to an A8 that is all Aluminum?

350Z = 3396 LBS - AUDI A5 QUATTRO = 3737 - SO FAIL.

LS600 and Audi A8 are about the same EVEN WITH Audi's alumimun chassis - SO FAIL.

The Mitsubishi has always traditionally been a heavy car but it has an AWD system that puts Audi's quattro joke to shame. Besides...the A4 Quattro is heavier than the EVO - SO FAIL.

Embarrassing.

— nozferatu (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 4:46:45 PM | | Votes: 1

Well then we'll take the A6 4.2

Audi A6 4.2 quattro - 1745kg
Honda Legend 3.5 V6 - 1864kg

Audi A8 6.0 W12 quattro - 1960kg
Lexus LS600h - 2270kg

Lexus LS460 - 1845kg
Audi A8 4.2 quattro - 1800kg

Audi A5 3.2 quattro - 1535kg
Nissan 350Z - 1534kg
Audi TT 3.2 quattro - 1410kg

Audi A4 2.0 TFSI quattro - 1520kg
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR - 1535kg

SUbaru Impreza WRX STI - 1485kg
Audi S3 quattro - 1450kg

So it is you who fails
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 8/12/2008 10:57:24 AM | | Votes: 1

Wow...interesting..you managed to find 300 extra pounds from somewhere for the 350Z...amazing...

— nozferatu (View Profile)

Posted on 8/12/2008 11:51:56 PM | | Votes: 0

http://www.nissan.nl/RNNNV/nl_NL/site-media/vehicles/passenger/Z33/grades-and-specs/specs.pdf

Official site, and it apparantly is 1503kg, so i was 30kg over. My mistake.
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 8/13/2008 9:27:41 AM | | Votes: 1

I have this site in my RSS feed gadget, as I am hooked to motoring news, even from the states.

Why then, do I seem to VAG news beamed to me every 1 hour? Yes, it's the same over here, you've got to credit VAG marketeers for their stranglehold - I've seen one too many Porche v. R8 shootouts both are declared as excellent/superlatove/mone-well-spent.

So here's my chance to question this... why do so many autospies stories start "Audi announces new shades of silv..." etc.etc.?
— Mugwump00 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 5:24:01 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Audis are for suave, ultra luxury, and dynamic car handling oriented buyers. It is not made to be totally performance oriented, like the BMWs and the Infinitis, but it can match them in being fast, superbly handling, and having fun to drive factor while not being back breaking. Audis are the perfect compromise of performance and luxury. Especially the RS4 is awesome.
— farabira1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 8:13:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Honestly, you are going to get very comparable numbers from all the cars in its class. What it comes down to is what set of features, looks, and what ride you prefer. It's not like 90% of the drivers know how to drive any of these cars like they are meant to be driven. I would also think with most of these luxury cars being a minimum of $30,000, you aren't going to rag it out that often to begin with.
— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 10:09:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

One thing we all for sure have in common is our passion for our cars. This is like Chevy vs. Ford vs. Dodge back in the day. The truth is passion and superior vehicle dynamics belongs to BMW. Technology, ergonomics and looks belongs to Audi. Quality and no passion belongs to Lexus. My choice is the BMW, because after driving and owning many of the cars listed here, the BMW made me a better driver even when driving normal. It just felt more confident as a car, period. All cars should feel this good with the steering wheel in hand.
— stevenv1999 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 11:13:54 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I drove an Audi A4 Convertible and it did feel heavy and slow.

Plus it took a while to really respond. I was terribly disappointed with the car.
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 1:26:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Audi's have always been heavy and slow. Tell us something we don't know.
— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 1:42:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

The only gripe I have with the upcoming '09 A4 is the reported weight of 3900 lbs for the 3.2 Quattro model. This is excessive. My IS250 comes in at 3450 lbs, which IMO, could go on a diet of a couple of hundred lbs.
This is the way cars a built world wide these days - more equipment, greater structural rigidity, and more safety equipment. All of these add lots of weight.
Take me back to 1972.
— BMW995 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 5:27:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

If you've got $38k in your pocket and you are looking for a high performance sedan, you most definitely do not look to the A4. BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G35 and Lexus IS350 all smoke the A4 in performance. I don't know why anyone would buy an A4. Who wants a nose heavy beast that can't handle like its competitors? I would buy a Honda Accord before I bought an A4. I'd save $10k, have a more reliable piece and it too would outperform the A4.
— goojman (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2008 8:42:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

OK I don't think you can compare these car because each of theme are depending of what you are looking for.
— sportauto76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/12/2008 11:45:01 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

And you're dumb enough to think it's worthwhile to pay premium for a BMW...

Frankly whether you're an Audi, Benz, or BMW driver, you're a sucker to pay that much for any of them.

"Ultimate Moron Machine" indeed.
— nozferatu (View Profile)

Posted on 8/13/2008 2:03:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Got rid of my 2005 A4 for a 335i and am not looking back. I like the R8 but it needs more power. Audis are very nice but IMHO most models are more family haulers than driver's cars. No offense intended, I still like Audis, especially the S5.
— supermoto (View Profile)

Posted on 8/13/2008 5:36:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I just drove an new 2009 Audi A4 3.2, a BMW 328xi, a Mercedes C300 AWD. The Audi blew the others away. A bit unfair you say? That may be true. A 335i would likely be a better raw performer, but you still have to live with the spartan interior and the less than stellar exterior (I'm keeping my E46 forever!). The A4's interior was several notches above BMW's and light years ahead of the C Class (what's up Mercedes?!). The A4 has always been in between the C Class (solid, comfort) and the 3 series (sportiness, performance) but the new one has saddled closer to the BMW (even if the nose remains a bit heavy). For living with a car in day to day driving the Audi wins hands down. It's a much nicer place to live in - from a styling, comfort and interior room perspective - and and the exterior styling is more appealing especially in S-Line trim (yes, that's subjective - but still true). And with the Quattro, all around weather driving is made safer and a bit more fun. If you don't care about a few 1/10ths to 60 mph, my vote is with the new A4. (Avant, please.)
— Gunther7 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/13/2008 9:20:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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Is The Argument Audi's Are Heavy And Slow (Even The R8) Still True?

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