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Is There Such A Thing As A SAFE, SMALL Car? And Who Do You Think Makes The Safest?

Agent001 submitted on 06/16/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 8:39 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[107] user comments | category: Report Cards

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Tags: Safest small cars

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Is There Such A Thing As A SAFE, SMALL Car? And Who Do You Think Makes The Safest?

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Brembo - 6/16/2008 8:59:54 PM

+3 Boost

Well if a small civic has a head on collision like the picture above of course the people in the civic are screwed.



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Brembo - 6/16/2008 9:04:23 PM

-2 Boost

For example:
Let's just say Agent001 is driving his imaginary e92 m3 ( I don't know if you have one ) and I'm in my LX and we had a head on collision. I would think I had the better odd of surviving. And the m3 is not consider a small car either.

Star - 6/16/2008 9:10:15 PM

-7 Boost

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...is Honda giving free drugs with every car they sell? Ha, ha, ha, ha...

Star - 6/16/2008 9:17:05 PM

+10 Boost

Most of the cars today are fairly safe considering the amount of safety features that come standard. I would worry more about the older cars that are still on the road, regardless of their size. New cars are safe.

Agent001 - 6/16/2008 9:51:58 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Don't have an M3 currently.

I'm driving a 2008 BMW X5 and a 2008 Lexus LS600h.

001

S4cabriofoxone - 6/16/2008 10:11:47 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Woah, Star actually made a good comment (the second one). Congrats.

Porschinator - 6/16/2008 10:23:43 PM

+5 Boost

What happened to the Porsche you got about a year ago???

Agent001 - 6/16/2008 11:16:06 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Sold the C2S...

001

abcd - 6/17/2008 5:29:54 AM

+3 Boost

Agent001 , i have a question - what`s ls600h real world fuel consumption .

markusck - 6/17/2008 10:07:53 AM

+1 Boost

001, Is the Lexus something that you were given as a tester by Lexus or purchased?

Agent001 - 6/17/2008 11:08:17 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I'm averaging 19.5mpg city on the LS600h...

001

Agent001 - 6/17/2008 11:09:12 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

The LS600h is a long term review car provided to us by Lexus for evaluation purposes.

001

Brembo - 6/17/2008 11:38:04 AM

+2 Boost

Long term... Dude you must be the smartest or luckiest guy to come up with the site about cars and have the auto manufacturer loan their car "as a test." PERFECT! That was your plan wasn't it.

JRobUSC - 6/17/2008 11:49:32 AM

+2 Boost

Brembo +1. I don't care how big the vehicle is you're driving, if you drive head on into a semi like the photo, chances are you're dead, even if the vehicle you're driving is another semi.

silver1 - 6/17/2008 6:25:12 PM

+1 Boost

i thought the Mercedes Smart Car For Two was the safest smallest car with all 4 and 5 star crash rating???? And a gas saver?

eric452 - 6/16/2008 9:12:53 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

well if ur planing a head on collision wit a big trailer like that then NO its not safe
but i like small cars
most of the best made cars are small

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lewishamiltonpimp - 6/16/2008 9:23:18 PM

+1 Boost

Tiff did this on Fifth Gear - the second greatest motoring sghow on the planet - with the Smart Car and an Opal Corsa .

Loads of fun. Here is the bit...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sR6UozdBWRY

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olscuul - 6/16/2008 9:23:36 PM

+1 Boost

let's rephrase this. if you drive a yaris or fit, what is the biggest vehicle you think it will stand up to?

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DexDiamonds - 6/17/2008 8:32:21 AM

+1 Boost

Lol another Yaris or Fit. Just kidding.

Agent001 - 6/16/2008 9:25:47 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

The small, inexpensive car that resonates with me is the VW Jetta...Watch the 'Safe Happens' ad campaign

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjcSWW3vCBk

This IS a serious subject so let's take it that way.

001

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Brembo - 6/16/2008 10:27:40 PM

+5 Boost

Sure it's a serious subject. But the level of safety in a car is depended on the level stupidity of the driver in the small car.

DexDiamonds - 6/17/2008 8:34:40 AM

+2 Boost

I have to agree with Brembo. How safe you end up in an accident has as much to do with a driver's awareness as the size of the car.

Agent009 - 6/17/2008 8:37:56 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

This goes back to an older argument we all had on safety. A "properly" built smaller car really needs to have a 5 star rating as much as possible. It has a pretty high chance of tangling with a much larger vehicle on the road. With the large mass and kenetic energy of say an SUV in a collision, you need all of the protection you can get.

Crash worthiness should be more important than gas mileage in consideration of a smaller car.

Brembo - 6/17/2008 9:27:45 AM

+1 Boost

00J is right ... But that 5 stars should not negate the driver from being cautious of his or her surrounding.

I'm all about "safer" car, but the driver is what determine how safe he or she wants to drive.

mpls - 6/16/2008 9:30:45 PM

0 Boost

In that picture, the car looks like a small VW, maybe Polo or Golf

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Matthew1 - 6/16/2008 9:34:47 PM

+2 Boost

It's a previous-gen SEAT Ibiza.

DieselRules - 6/16/2008 9:32:40 PM

+5 Boost

Generally, if you're lucky enough to hit something straight-on, you're not in too bad of shape.
But when you get "T-Boned" you're in trouble.
In fact, we had an RCMP officer killed in Richmond when his Crown Vic was t-boned by a kid playing mid-town madness with his mom's Civic, and the kid walked away!

Safe, tough small cars:
* Smart Car: very tough car, but can you handle the G-forces?
* New Beetle: when I bought my TDI in 1998 it was rated higher for side-impact than the Camry, Crown Vic, or (surprise) Chevy Tahoe, meaning that cop that died on duty would have had better odds if he was in a Beetle!
* almost anything from Germany, Sweden, etc.

A highway patrol officer working in the Rocky Mountains ("first on the scene") once told me: "I'd rather be in a German car with a seat-belt than a Japanese apple-crate with an air-bag!"

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Matthew1 - 6/16/2008 9:33:34 PM

+1 Boost

Well to make one thing clear, almost every new small car launched in Europe has recieved a (maximum) five-star rating by EuroNCAP.

So although you can't beat the laws of physics, as witnessed by the last-gen SEAT Ibiza in the photo, you can be sure modern small cars are absolutetly some of the safest cars on the market.

For example, the five-star rated FIAT Grande Punto is SAFER in a head-on crash than a Chrysler Voyager, which recieved severe structure deformation in the A-pillar and footwell.



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DieselRules - 6/17/2008 12:30:58 AM

+3 Boost

I've had people ask of our Beetle: "But do you feel safe driving it?".
I ask: which is stronger, a piece of spaghetti or macaroni?
They both weigh the same.

The Beetle TDI and the base Chrysler mini-van also weigh roughly the same (3000 pounds ... or they did back in '98).
So I explain to them: the Beetle is the Macaroni, and the Mini-van is the Spaghetti. Which would you rather be in?

204E60 - 6/16/2008 9:52:27 PM

+2 Boost

The current generation (997) Porsche 911 is a remarkable safe, very well built and crash-worthy small car.

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M53R - 6/16/2008 10:48:08 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

In a head on collusion like the picture above, I dont think any car would be considered safe. There is a limit for safety, and some cars might be safer than others, but that questions what you mean by "safe".

Cars by the day are becoming lighter and lighter, and more plastic is used to make the body. Lets compare a 1974 beetle with a new one. The old one feels about a million times more solid, while the new one can be bent by your hands! Same can be said about any other new car.

Try crashing a Kia Rio, Toyota Yaris, Hyundai Accent, Nissan Tiida/Versa, Honda City and even the safest one of them wouldn't really be considered "safe".

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DieselRules - 6/17/2008 12:33:11 AM

+2 Boost

Huh? A new Beetle is almost 3000 pounds of steel. About 500 more pounds than a Civic. And maybe 1000 pounds more than the old Beetle!
The old ones were tough, but the New Beetle is a roll-cage with body panels!

Star - 6/17/2008 9:53:42 AM

0 Boost

M53R "Cars by the day are becoming lighter and lighter"

Wait....WHAT????

LDMAN - 6/16/2008 11:24:50 PM

+3 Boost

You are safer in a latest generation car. Even a smaller one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ygYUYia9I

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abcd - 6/17/2008 5:07:43 PM

+1 Boost

good point . i would like to be in small renault modus than here when crash occur :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB0araA0T_k

truckmen - 6/16/2008 11:47:42 PM

+2 Boost

I don't think a truck would be safe in this head on. I bought a 2007 civic because it had the safest 5 star ratings all around, and yes a smaller car isn't as safe as a comparable year 5 star rated vehicle.I would be driving around in a full blown full size off road race truck if I could fit the family in it and afford the gas.lol

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TurboSpyder - 6/17/2008 12:29:03 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Well, Volkswagen AG Cars Have the lowest accident death rates for small and midsize cars according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety - April, 2007

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/6901/2007iihsvehicledeathratag3.jpg

http://www.iihs.org/sr/pdfs/sr4204.pdf

And the VW Golf also has the lowest Insurance losses of any small car according to the latest IIHS data

http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite_cls.aspx?cls=2&sort=name&sz=2



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DieselRules - 6/17/2008 12:36:23 AM

+2 Boost

That last spec is a combination of 2 factors:
* very strong, safe design (VW likely spends more on automotive safety design than any other manufacturer in the world)
* low cost of repair (VW parts are relatively cheap, probably because the Golf is the highest-volume production vehicle in the history of the automobile)

abcd - 6/17/2008 6:04:18 AM

+1 Boost

This aren`t good statistics . this depend how car is driven - slowly or fast , amount of miles per year specific car is riding , example : compare nissan 350Z and infinity g35 deaths - cars very similar structurally but with different drivers . They shouldn`t do rate of driver death per amount of registered vehicles but percent of death per amount of crashes becouse this would have more direct connect to chances of death when crash occur , but even this isn`t perfect statistic , the best i think are crash-tests .

TurboSpyder - 6/17/2008 1:49:40 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

abcd, so you're saying that people who buy a Corolla, for example, drive more recklessly than people who buy a Golf?

abcd - 6/17/2008 4:59:04 PM

0 Boost

Maybe . or maybe they do generally fewer miles , golfs have lower avarage owner age so it`s possibility that they do fewer miles becouse young persons generally have less money for fuel . But this are only guesses and that`s why such statistics aren`t good . Such statistics aren`t any proof , only indication for someone who know "how to read" them .

abcd - 6/18/2008 3:22:23 AM

0 Boost

crash injury statistics from UK :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_accident_statistics_on_a_model-by-model_basis

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/vehicles/carsmmrisk/carsmakeandmodeltheriskofdri1800

"It does not address issues of primary safety and gives no information on whether or not specific makes of car have different risks of being involved in an accident."

TurboSpyder - 6/18/2008 12:32:33 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

From page 3 of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety's Driver Death Rate Report:


DEATH RATE IN FORD PICKUP MATCHES
ITS PERFORMANCE IN CRASH TESTS

"The purpose of Institute crash tests is to pressure
automakers to improve the crashworthiness of
poor performers, and the Ford F-150 is a good
example. The 2001 model was one of the worst
performers ever in the 40 mph frontal offset test.
When the Institute later tested a redesigned 2004
F-150, the performance improved dramatically (see
Status Report, Jan. 3, 2004; on the web at iihs.org).
The death rate also has improved. The old F-150’s
rate of 118 during 2002-05 was much worse than
average. In contrast is the rate of 58 in the new
F-150. The crash of a 2004 model (above) demonstrates
the point. This impact was serious, but the
driver’s injuries weren’t. The outcome might not
have been the same in the old model."

http://www.iihs.org/sr/pdfs/sr4204.pdf

abcd - 6/18/2008 2:34:28 PM

0 Boost

Fords f-150 after redesign was drive by the similar peoples , in the similar way , peoples that had similar accidents and amount of accidents but when accident occur were more safe in improved car .

abcd - 6/18/2008 2:38:57 PM

0 Boost

don`t you really get a point ?

TurboSpyder - 6/18/2008 5:20:41 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Yeah, I get it. You're saying that the accident death rate is lower when people drive cars with improved safety and that's why VW has the lowest accident death rate for small cars.

abcd - 6/19/2008 11:53:45 AM

+1 Boost

I see you don`t get me right . Read my posts above and my links and - most important - citation from similar statistics from UK :
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/vehicles/carsmmrisk/carsmakeandmodeltheriskofdri1800

"It does not address issues of primary safety and gives no information on whether or not specific makes of car have different risks of being involved in an accident."

m5todd - 6/17/2008 12:39:59 AM

+1 Boost

We must remember that the laws of physics are not subject to repeal.

Big whoops up on small every time. Especially head on.

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valhallakey - 6/17/2008 12:42:41 AM

+6 Boost

Semi trucks should be much smaller, and all larger trucks should have better bumpers with deformable structures, and the headlights at the same height as passenger cars. Next they need to have a barrier in place on all Interstates and 4 lane highways that would stop cars from jumping across into oncoming traffic and stop headlights from oncoming traffic from blinding people driving the other direction. That would be a start to making our roads safer for small cars.

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truckmen - 6/17/2008 2:05:06 AM

+3 Boost

I secound all the above!

85bmw745i - 6/18/2008 7:29:40 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Yeah and they need to teach Americans how to drive like they do in europe rather than having us make a block and heres your license can drive. People here really can't drive at all. blocking the fast lane going below the speed limint, no turn signal, ETC.

Matthew1 - 6/17/2008 12:55:24 AM

+6 Boost

Another thing to factor in, other than passive safety in small cars, is active safety.

It's no secret smaller cars stop quicker and react to sharp steering inputs more quickly, so one can assume that if you are an alert driver, you can utilise a smaller cars better handling to avoid a crash.

Larger cars (SUV's in particular, though) take longer to stop and in the case of SUV's without Stability control systems, can roll over in an avoidance manoeuvre.

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ChicaneShooter - 6/18/2008 3:41:15 AM

0 Boost

...

ChicaneShooter - 6/18/2008 3:57:50 AM

+1 Boost

yup. it's been said before: the most critical piece of safety eqpt. is THE NUT BEHIND the wheel.

at one time, the drivers with the BEST SAFETY RECORD as a group, were big rig truck drivers. yet, they drove the MOST DANGEROUS VEHICLES. overweight, underpowered, underbraked, ill-handling. what made the operators safe? knowing and ALLOWING FOR the inherent drawbacks.

flip to the other side: among the MOST DANGEROUS (mainly to themselves) drivers, were kids on sport bikes. YET, the machines were inherently capable of being THE SAFEST: outstanding capacities in handling, braking, evasive action, and acceleration. kids were killing themselves because they tended to OVER EXPLOIT the handling and speed capabilities, TOO OFTEN OVERDRIVING their skill level!

i myself seasonally drive both an inherently dangerous vehicle (tour bus) and an inherently safe vehicle (motorcycle). i DO NOT FEEL UNSAFE with either! EVER. (i get closer to the 'edge of the envelope' ONLY when in my car.)

and other nuts on the road ARE NOT much of a threat factor; a GOOD driver will spot and avoid them LONG BEFORE they're in striking range.

AlexTx - 6/17/2008 3:06:57 AM

+5 Boost

That is the biggest load of crap I have ever read...
MichaelTaylor, it is time for you to be banned.. Nothing, I mean nothing you post is constructive.
We don't need trolls like you.

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xlr8 - 6/17/2008 3:14:34 AM

+3 Boost

yea that was a pretty gay comment, do you sell toyota's?

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M53R - 6/17/2008 3:43:26 AMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

He cleans them.

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Kinger - 6/17/2008 6:36:54 AM

+3 Boost

"hence the high death rate in Europe of small car owners"

lol, it's obvious this guy isn't being serious. Probably another person makiong a mockery of Japanese car fans. The majority of modern safety innovations in cars were created in Europe.

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Htay7500 - 6/17/2008 10:03:18 AM

+1 Boost

"Some of the safest small cars are made by Toyota and Honda. European cars with their poor build quality cannot really stack up in most crash situations, hence the high death rate in Europe of small car owners."

failed a IQ test? did you read the sources that turbospyder provided? wheres your?


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Agent009 - 6/17/2008 10:48:33 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

MichaelTaylor- You obviously don't read very much. I have never seen a person look as foolish as you do sometimes.


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TurboSpyder - 6/17/2008 1:52:22 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Michael Taylor reminds me of this guy

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/722/iraqbaghdadbobhf1.jpg

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Agent009 - 6/17/2008 8:38:23 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

And just what do you drive?

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ChicaneShooter - 6/18/2008 3:43:55 AM

0 Boost

monkey man is not allowed to drive motorized vehicles yet. he is limited to swinging on tree branches, and just MAYBE, under supervision, on playground swings.



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DexDiamonds - 6/17/2008 8:45:19 AM

+3 Boost

A year ago I got into a head on collision driving my mother's '02 civic at about 40 mph. A '98 BMW 325 cross the line and hit the car on the front driver's side. Me and my girlfriend walk away and my daughter woke up in her car seat. The Civic held up very well and is still on the road today. The BMW got totaled (probably caught a bad angle). It's funny because I use to look at my mother crazy when she use to praise the 5 star safety commercials Honda use to run with the Civic. This isn't praise for the Civic or a bash at the BMW (because the woman was unharm also) but just a testimony on a small car fairing well.

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dodahman - 6/17/2008 10:25:59 AM

-2 Boost

I'd just like to see a similar crash between said Civic and say... a Suburban or Hummer?
Also, every VW Golf/Jetta etc, I've ever seen involved in a major accident, the occupants have either died or been severely injured. It kinda goes against every VW commercial I've seen.

Heyhuub - 6/17/2008 10:43:37 AM

+1 Boost

I think it's funny that people see modern Civics and Golfs as small cars.
A Golf is almost just as big as a B7 A4 or 3 series, just without the sedan look.

At that, safety is about the lowest on the list of requirements when i'm looking for a car.
Especially since the difference in safety between modern cars is so small.

thstone - 6/17/2008 5:35:50 PM

+1 Boost

What if you had hit a Suburban? It would have been a trajic story for your family. There are millions of large SUV's still out on the roads from the SUV binge of the past 10 years.

olscuul - 6/17/2008 8:32:05 PM

+2 Boost

i was sure glad i had my big ass suv when i got hit by an out of control toyota van going the wrong way on the highway.

Rupert - 6/18/2008 7:41:29 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

The 98 BMW didn't have a good safety rating - according to EuroNCAP, it only got 2/5 stars for occupant safety.

Htay7500 - 6/17/2008 10:02:08 AM

+2 Boost

I have a out-of-reach question: whats with europes crash standards making them allow that deathtrap-out-of-china brilliance in their market?

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Rupert - 6/18/2008 7:44:29 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

It's not, is it? I thought we banned it. And if they ban that they should ban the Nissan Navaro (a pick up truck, I think the Frontier in the US) which got only 0.5 stars out of 5, the worst result ever.

http://www.autospies.com/news/EuroNCAP-Crash-Tests-Pick-ups-With-Some-Deadly-Surprises-27003/

The picture doesn't show the full damage, but ENCAP said that the chassis rail collapsed, which isn't good.

Htay7500 - 6/20/2008 7:32:24 AM

+1 Boost

I like the frontier, but ugh, that sucks.

dodahman - 6/17/2008 10:31:19 AM

+1 Boost

My first car was an '81 Fiat X1/9. That was probably the toughest little car I've ever owned. Not only was it agile enough to avoid most accidents, but it withstood a blind-side impact from a Jeep Cherokee traveling at 110mph. All I know is, that little car saved my bacon. Myself and my passenger walked away from that wreck without even 1 scratch between the 2 of us. I can't even count the number of major wrecks I was able to avoid all together because of the agility of that car.

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ChicaneShooter - 6/18/2008 4:07:53 AM

+1 Boost

was the jeep cherokee going 110 mph, or were you? if the former, no way you would've walked away alive.

but if YOU were traveling at 110, your own momentum saved you, and he merely DEFLECTED your travel path.

truckmen - 6/18/2008 5:50:58 AM

+1 Boost

This story is more a testament that God didn't want you yet. 1984 vehicles were not known to have crash standards. I know someone that had a minor accident in a Fiat and the car was a major write off and she was injured! Luckily just minorly. Glad to hear that no one was hurt.

supermoto - 6/17/2008 1:22:50 PM

-1 Boost

If a car like a Smart Car was hit by a full-size SUV, game over. It would fly into the next time zone. Might as well just ride a motorcyle, have more fun, and not look like a tool.

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Star - 6/17/2008 1:52:04 PM

+2 Boost

Make no mistake, the tool is driving the SUV.

mini22 - 6/17/2008 1:52:08 PM

0 Boost

One solution might be to restrict passenger vehicle size on the road. This would not only be for fuel economy but for safty reasons as well.We should perhaps limit the length of a vehicle to 190 inches,width to 75 inches,height to 60 inches and weight to not exceed 4000 LBS.Further we should stipulate that no more then a certain amount of the largest vehicle's(within the perameters just mentioned) can be sold in a yr.That would mean that SUv's,pick ups,crossovers and ultra large vehicles would be a thing of the past.Yes it's Draconian and screams of "Big Brother". However it would probably reduce the damage caused by a big car and a small car colliding not only to the vehicle's but also perhaps reduce fatalities.Building vehicles within these perameters would force auto makers to use lighter materials and make them more space efficient.

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dodahman - 6/17/2008 2:58:12 PM

0 Boost

Sorry, I guess I didn't realize I was living in Communist East Germany. It's a good thing you aren't a US legislator.

Some of us actually use our vehicles for more than just a commuter tool, plodding along down the highway.

Besides, If you do that, how will your precious wheat grass get shipped to your Organic Goods Supermarket?

Is some unkempt guy with dreadlocks gonna hook a pull cart to the back of his mountain bike and haul it cross country?

Maybe we should just not allow you to talk on your cell phone and drink you Starbucks while eating a donut and driving? Maybe then you would have a chance to react and get out of the way of the "giant" suburban coming towards you.

As for mileage, Electric drive vehicles are the only logical solution.

I'll step off my soapbox now. Thank you.

thstone - 6/17/2008 5:31:04 PM

-1 Boost

It is not an issue of whether a small car is safe, its an issue of whether the passengers of a small car will live through an impact with a LARGE car.

And the answer is NO. A larger vehicle will ALWAYS win that battle. Now, you know why a military tank is called a "tank". Weight and mass wins in combat and on the streets.

Yes, good design can "improve" your changes (~20%) of surviving when your small car impacts a larger vehicle, but a larger vehicle will improve your chances several times (100-200%) when impacting a vheicle of similar size.

At this time, the existing population of vehicles containts millions of large SUV's. Until that population is retired and off the streets you have to assume that your small car will impact a much larger vehicle(your life and your family's lives depend on it).

Thus, at this time, there are NO safe small cars. To drive one or let your family drive in one is pretty equal to criminal neglect. would you let them run with sissors? Get into a car with strangers? Play with fire? Then why would anyone let their loved ones risk impacting a 3 ton SUV in a 1 ton hybrid - all just to save $20 a week in gas?

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Matthew1 - 6/17/2008 7:55:16 PM

+3 Boost

You sound a little delusional there.

The fact is, EVERYTHING has risks. From driving to the mall to climbing a ladder.

If that is your argument against buying a small car (running with scissors?, criminal neglect-lol) then I don't agree with you.

In fact, using your fuzzy logic, I should (in the interest of my safety) go and purchase a Freightliner because a lowly Tahoe isn't going to come off well against one of those.

And who cares if its totally impractical.