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Is There Such a Thing As A "Best Handling Car" And If So, Does Audi's R8 Win Gold? Find Out Who Says Yes - But Did They Get It Wrong?

Agent00J submitted on 08/30/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 12:06 AM
from: www.motortrend.com

[50] user comments | category: Misc News

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Is There Such a Thing As A "Best Handling Car" And If So, Does Audi's R8 Win Gold? Find Out Who Says Yes - But Did They Get It Wrong?

There is always a debate raging as to what car is faster, or which car corners or brakes or accelerates better and inherently it seems that whatever car it is that YOU own tends to be the better performer than the car the person you are arguing with has. I promise you when I tell you that you are not alone, even myself, a highly trained and skilled Agent here at AutoSpies.com routinely engage in arguments meant to defend the honor of a particular automobile.

Last Friday evening my wife and I ate dinner with neighbors who recently acquired a BMW M6. After dinner I suggested desert at an Italian Gelato store down the street and while both of our wives rolled their eyes, my friend and I both new what was coming, a race between his M6 and my M3.

I would be lying if I told you that I didn’t have the all important “competitive bone” as does my friend, and in an effort to defend our honor and the honor of our particular cars, a race to the ice cream shop was in order. After a spirited drive at speeds that would have resulted in handcuffs for both of us, he settled in behind my car as he was not sure of the exact location. While we waited out the final traffic light prior to our destination a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 pulled into the lane next to me. I really didn’t think much of it until the light turned green and the Jeep took off. To defend my honor I immediately got on the gas, however the Jeep got the better of me beating me not only through the intersection, but continued at an elevated pace while I slowed to turn into our destination.

During the next 45 minutes or so while our wives discussed God only knows what, I was laughed at and ridiculed for the Jeep which had just beaten me. Let’s just say my friend was in full bore “smack talking, trash talking” mode as he belittled me and my car reminding me again and again how much faster his M6 was over my M3 referring back frequently to the Jeep SRT-8 he had just witnessed beating me off the line.

A healthy slice of humble pie was consumed with the Gelato that evening, but it raised an interesting conversation regarding cars and the manner in which they are tested. The ideal testing situation is one that can be duplicated again and again removing as many variables as possible from the process to insure the most consistent and accurate test results.

Everyone from Consumer Reports to Motor Trend and Car and Driver have stated testing practices meant to deliver consistent testing standards in an effort to lend credibility to the process. But is it good enough.

Face it, if you have been a reader here longer than 15 minutes you are sure to have stumbled upon a discussion with different people and their opinions about the outcome of a particular test.

Several months ago Car and Driver compared the Nissan GT-R to the BMW M3 declaring the M3 the winner. Tempers flared as factions from both fan bases came out in force to defend the honor of their chosen make. It makes for good reading, and I am guessing, a break from the mundane.

So what happens when a test is devised with the bold task of declaring the best handling car? In the latest issue of Motor Trend such a task was devised, and the results are somewhat surprising.

The task, establish criteria that can be repeated consistently across a range of vehicles to declare a winner which will wear the title of “best handling car.”

The players are diverse ranging from a BMW M3, Nissan GT-R and Porsche 911 Turbo, to lesser entries like the Mini Cooper S and Chevrolet Cobalt SS.

Additional participants included the Ford Shelby GT500KR, Mazda RX-8, Audi R8, Dodge Viper ACR and the Mitsubishi Evo MR.

And the winner is???

Based on the criteria established by the tester, Audi’s R8 takes the first place position. The Nissan GT-R and BMW M3 sit at the number 2 and 3 positions respectively, but are the results accurate and fair?

Some would argue that the results are flawed because the testing process inherently favors a particular type of vehicle, four of the vehicles tested are all wheel drive, two where front wheel drive and the rest rear wheel drive. Depending on the test, the drive wheels certainly could give an advantage to one car over the other.

So lets ask the question, is there a fair way to accurately compare and test different vehicles to get test results that can satisfy the car enthusiast. Secondly did Motor Trend get it right by declaring the Audi R8 the winner?

Based on the simple fact we will never be able to make everyone happy, go ahead and tell us what you think should be done in testing to get results that will satisfy all and prevent arguments.

Go ahead and have some fun, I for one am interested in hearing some of your ideas.

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GermanNut - 8/30/2008 12:42:44 AM

+4 Boost

The R8 is Audi's ultimate execution and what a masterpiece it is. Yes, the Audi R8 is the best handling car. The R8 takes the combination of chassis balance, confidence-inspiring grip, and connected handling to a new level.

Bravo and just wait for the V10 if you think the current model is not fast enough. There is a very good chance the new R8 with V10 will set a Nurburgring record.

reply to this comment

KZ258 - 8/30/2008 7:21:31 AM

-1 Boost

i rather believe edmund's inside line video

KZ258 - 8/30/2008 7:31:48 AM

+4 Boost

also, after watching motor trends video, the R8 won mostly due to ride quality which is irrelevant. the audi also finished in 3rd place in the lane change btw behind the GT-R and Viper

"After a spirited drive at speeds that would have resulted in handcuffs for both of us,"

i would of done the same ooj lol, probably worse

GermanNut - 8/30/2008 12:48:33 AM

+2 Boost

Motortrend's article just reinforces what an amazing machine the R8 is. The R8 has successfully managed to defeat many of the world's best sports car including Nissan's GTR, the Porsche 911 Turbo, BMW M3, Aston Martin V8 Vantage, Lotus Elise and the list goes on.

reply to this comment

t_bone - 8/30/2008 12:50:37 AM

0 Boost

They forgot to include the Porsche Cayman in the test. Oops. Perhaps this is a test better left to the British rags.

reply to this comment

qweasdzxc - 8/30/2008 1:07:37 AM

0 Boost

Oh great, mid engine wins.

Big deal.

And they even mention 'supply ride' in the video. So is this test about comfort or is it about scientifically evaluating 'handling' that MT is so proud of?

By the way, being a light and balanced car, RX-8 should never get on the list because the steering is hell as numb as Z4.

reply to this comment

GermanNut - 8/30/2008 1:07:39 AM

0 Boost

Porsche Cayman would have done well with its mid-engine layout, but the lack of AWD would have hurt it in the corners. Chassis balance and connected handling can only help so much, but without AWD to put the power down the Cayman would have failed to defeat the R8.

reply to this comment

F1_Driver - 8/30/2008 1:33:42 AM

-1 Boost

R8 the best handling car? The best handling car can't even beat the Viper ACR's time of 1:35 around the track. R8 is more like the best comfortable car.

reply to this comment

hpfreak - 8/30/2008 4:58:13 AM

+2 Boost

Murcielago, you are too funny.

Is everyone on here this stupid?

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darzav - 8/30/2008 6:14:57 AM

+4 Boost

You driven the IS-F? Its horible. I have no idea whats wrong with you? Toyota and Lexus cant make performance cars. Live with it!. The Supra was an exception. Unless they bring it back my arguement stands.

reply to this comment

350zdon17 - 8/30/2008 9:09:21 AM

+3 Boost

MT is on Lexus drugs

reply to this comment

TurboSpyder - 8/30/2008 11:24:06 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Michael Taylor, regarding your second place choice in your delusional list of best handling cars.

From a Car & Driver Comparison that included the then new Lexus IS 350 and the BMW 330i:

"And yet the IS350 doesn't become an extension of your legs and forearms, as the BMW or even the G35 does. Editors wrote of a twitchy, overly zealous response to steering inputs by an overdamped suspension that was annoyingly busy on the freeway. Scrub data through the electrically assisted steering rack get muted, and the weighting seems typically Lexus light and artificial. Meanwhile, the tires lack the bite to control understeer, contributing to a last-place lane-change speed."

The Comparison winner:

"The 3-series is the BMW franchise, accounting for 60 percent of the company's sales. No wonder it feels the least altered, the least Bangle-ized, by its model changeover. The core BMW traits are all there: slot-car steering response, implacable structural rigidity, sublime balance. See your path through a corner, and the BMW nails it with a wrist flick. It doesn't clomp, it doesn't float, its throttle doesn't surge or cause the driveline to buck. It doesn't force you to wrestle with mushy controls or negotiate with bionic brains. It just makes every road your personal pavement playpen."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/german_performance/2006_bmw_330i_comparison_test

--

From an Autoweek Review of the 2007 Lexus IS 350 where you could turn off all of the intrusive electronic control nannies:

[Quote]
So we took an IS 350 and drove it to the track, as well as over some spectacular twisty mountain roads.

And? And the BMW is still better.

Through our 790-foot slalom, the new IS 350 with the off button in the off position (held down for more than three seconds so everything was well and truly off) went through the cones at 45.4 mph. The 2006-model IS 350 with the stability program klunking in the whole way went only 44.2 mph through the same slalom. The BMW 330i we tested on the same day as the old IS 350 went 46.0 mph.

Sure, the BMW is faster, but that’s pretty close, you say. Why bash the Lexus? Because compared to BMW 3 Series sedans and coupes, the Lexus is not as smooth and communicative through transitions and feels almost darty when you turn the wheel, at least compared to its German counterpart.
[/Quote]

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070723/FREE/70719012/1532/FREE

reply to this comment

synx - 8/31/2008 2:42:55 AM

+1 Boost

MT you're a biased idiot. the IS is a heavy, luxurious car. it handles poorly and i would know, my mum has one.
btw, what car do you own??
and...what is it about lexus that you like?

reply to this comment

Lexus - 8/30/2008 3:25:08 AM

-1 Boost

Yeah right, LOL......The best handling street legal car right now got to be the Nissan GT-R, F430, and Lambo Gallardo.

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hpfreak - 8/30/2008 4:57:30 AM

+3 Boost

LOL good one.

Which you have driven neither.

ubercool - 8/30/2008 4:42:25 AM

+3 Boost

My money would be on one of the following for best handling car, definately not the R8

Lotus Exige

Noble M12/M400

Nissan Skyline

Mitsubish Evo

Caterham

TVR Sagaris

reply to this comment

hpfreak - 8/30/2008 5:00:03 AM

0 Boost

+1 on the Exige and Caterham.

You should read up on the R8 steering feel. Some of the best ever. You can literally make the car do what every want.

F1_Driver - 8/30/2008 4:31:24 PM

0 Boost

You make the R8 do anything but beat the Viper ACR's time of 1:35 on the test track. Best handling car my left foot.

steve27t - 8/30/2008 7:13:31 PM

+1 Boost

ubercool. You miss the point.

See my comment below about Top Gear Isle of Man test. The R8 beat everything according to Jeremy Clarkson including the Ariel Atom which is faster on the track than anything you mentioned.

On Top Gears own test track the R8 beat the Mitsubishi Evo X. In fact the Evo is 22 cars slower than the R8. The R8 even beat the Evo 400.

The Noble M400 was slower than the R8.

The Lotus Exige was slower than the R8

The TVR Segaris was slower than the R8 (just)

Its not just track speed, but hell if that how you are measuring then the R8 wins anyway.

rawbux - 9/1/2008 2:13:36 AM

+2 Boost

I want to get the Koenigsegg CCX in the conversation. That thing is AWESOME!!

PrancingHorse - 8/30/2008 5:44:03 AM

+1 Boost

Ferrari F430 Scuderia,end of story and your whinning.

reply to this comment

atomicbri - 8/30/2008 8:24:21 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

You know what really makes me laugh about posters on this website? So many people make comments on how a car is this or that, and they have never even driven the thing! I can attest that I have not driven the GT-R, nor the Ford Shelby GT500KR, Or Viper ACR, but I have driven the rest of these fine cars and I think the Audi R8 was a good all rounder. It is a sports car you can live with everyday. And while I do love the M3 as well, it has none of the exotic flair of the R8. Now that doesn't mean I don't think the M3 is not special, because it definitely is! But a test like they did is so all over the place with cars in the test (Mini Cooper S?? Good fun car and Cobalt SS?? See some of these comparos I am not sure about)it is kind of silly. Cars like these fit a certain driver. A certain person loves the M3, as does a Ford Shelby GT500KR. I would personally NEVER buy the Ford...but that doesn't mean it is not a good car. I just don't like it, but I will give it credit if credit is due.
People on here, I tell you, I do get some laughs! And sorry MichaelTaylor, but you crack me up!! I don't see how you can be a car fan and be so locked on to one brand. Have you ever driven any other car other than a Toyota product? Can you honestly say that an SC Lexus is more beautiful than an Aston Martin? Wow...Good laughs all around here on Autospies!

reply to this comment

Agent00J - 8/30/2008 8:45:22 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Atomicbri - well said and true. The overwhelming majority have not driven the cars mentioned, but boy do they have an opinion.

In terms of MichaelTaylor, he has stated that there is a Nissan Maxima in the family along with the Camry he drives, so I would assume he has driven something other than Toyota.

Of course, reading their opinions is what makes this so much fun.

-00J

markanthony0419 - 8/30/2008 8:45:34 AM

+1 Boost

r8 awsome poor michael taylor gs-f not going to come out and lf-a i highly doubt it you will be saying when it comes out another 5 years.

reply to this comment

Heyhuub - 8/30/2008 10:08:21 AM

+1 Boost

Autocar declared the R8 the winner of their best handling car test. Even above the Porsche GT3 RS and Lotus 2-Eleven.

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Audiphile - 8/30/2008 11:46:43 AM

+1 Boost

I haven't read the Motor Trend article yet, but I'm not surprised by the result. For instance, Road & Track evaluated the performance of a whole bunch of high-performance cars on at least 4 different racetracks. The Audi R8 did NOT win at any individual track, nor did it emerge as the overall winner - the Lamborghini Gallardo did that. However, EVERY driver praised the Audi's handling to the heavens. The general consensus was that the R8 was the best-handling car of the lot, but it needed more power to compete with the front-runners.

I was just thingk about that last sentence. A 3,605-lb car with a 420-hp engine - that's less than 8.6 lb/hp - is considered "underpowered". Energy crisis, my a#$!

reply to this comment

Audiphile - 8/31/2008 1:24:59 AM

+1 Boost

Your dealer's action is not only unethical, it is illegal. You had a deal. The dealer broke it.

A call to Audi's American headquarters in Northern Virginia should quickly resolve this situation in your favor. If in a moment of corporate insanity or stupidity Audi USA takes no action against your dealer, contact an attorney. I don't know a lawyer who doesn't like to take a winning case.

pcar4evr - 8/30/2008 12:25:09 PM

+7 Boost

Good luck trying to buy an R8 at MSRP. Deposited on an R8 on 12/06 at MSRP. My car is being produced and new management says it goes to the highest bidder.

You think a car that can't out accelerate a GTR, a 997tt, a 997.5 C2S, a corvette etc is worth 127K + 25K markup - not me

reply to this comment

wedouglas - 8/30/2008 1:09:39 PM

+2 Boost

You just got shafted by your dealer. Most owners I know got MSRP no problem.

As for it being worth it for acceleration, do you think a $135K 997 TT is worth it even though a Z06 is probably just as fast? I wouldn't pay more than MSRP on principle, but when you are spending $125-150K on a car, it's not because it's the fastest in a straight line. It's because of the overall car.

One could argue that a Veyron is overpriced when compared to a Gallardo TT or that a 911 TT is overpriced when compared to 10 sec Fox Body Mustang. Any car can be made fast for very little money. The entire package is a different story.

Audiphile - 8/31/2008 6:17:27 PM

+1 Boost

abcd - 8/30/2008 12:48:45 PM

+3 Boost

I`m curious what will be result of comparing Audi R8 and Lamborghini Gallardo becouse these cars share underpinnings , how much different can Audi r8 "feel" from his older brother by changing some parts : suspension setup , acustic isolation , interior , center differential ...

reply to this comment

wedouglas - 8/30/2008 1:02:52 PM

+2 Boost

Quite a bit. The LP560 received some of the chassis and suspension updates that were designed for the R8 because they were superior. Currently though, you'll need to opt for the sports suspensions on the LP560 to get the best, but they still didn't give them the magnetic suspension which really does make a huge difference.

steve27t - 8/30/2008 1:17:55 PM

+3 Boost

Top Gear took a bunch of cars to the Isle of Man to use the TT course ( a road course that holds a motorcycle race annually) and compare them, they took Ferrari 599, Audi R8, Ariel Atom, Capari T1, Ford GT, Jaguar XKR, Aston Vantage, Murcielago LP640, BMW M3, 911 GT3. Jeremy Clarksons words....

"one car that will ride over the rough, grip in the corners, go warp speed in the straights and still feel like a proper car when you parallel park to get a pint of milk"....."its the Audi R8"

" I am looking at my new Gallardo spyder and wondering if there is some sly way I can get my money back"

The R8 is as fast as anything here, maybe faster, but it is also usable"

reply to this comment

GermanNut - 8/30/2008 1:41:47 PM

+1 Boost

Please see the Audi R8 defeat world-class competition in the hands of Jeremy Clarkson and Co. at the Isle of Man

http://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-R8-defeats-world-class-cars-yet-again-Jeremy-Clarkson-tests-it-on-the-Isle-of-Man-21041/

reply to this comment

wedouglas - 8/30/2008 5:09:23 PM

+2 Boost

A lot of people don't realize that the best handling car isn't about how fast it can take corners and how much grip it has. The Viper is fast as hell, but it bites a hell of a lot harder than an R8 when you step over it's limits. Take each car up to, past, then back under it's limits. Most regular drivers would completely lose a Viper or a GT2. The R8 and GTR are so much easier to keep in line and bring back under control. They also do well in all driving conditions. Let's not forget they are testing road cars, not race cars.

And wait a minute, isn't the reviewer a pro driver? Are you naysayers saying that you, who have probably never driven any of these cars, let along back to back on the same track, think the results are wrong? It's a matter of opinion, but it's backed up with tons of data and real experience from someone who knows what the hell he's talking about.

reply to this comment

open_mind - 8/30/2008 7:12:39 PM

+1 Boost

Article after article have shown that the R8 is not the fastest or the best handling in professional hands (not that it is a slow car), but most of these articles say it is the most confidence-inspiring and easy to push to the limit, where it is very forgiving--which also means your non-professional driver could probably get a lot more out of it than the more powerful cars without losing control. Despite it's relative lack of power, it still manages to finish near or at the top of many comparison tests, and it can be driven in comfort mode everyday to work or to run errands, much like a Porshe or Corvette. It will be interesting to see what it can do in the next couple years when the slated V10's with over 500 hp start getting tested.

reply to this comment

Lexus - 8/30/2008 8:41:51 PM

+1 Boost

hpfreak,

and I'm pretty sure you haven all of them? LOL...yeah right! Just go to youtube and search Nissan GT-R, F430, Gallardo and see what the test driver said.

reply to this comment

chewy - 8/30/2008 10:48:24 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

The subjective ratings came from Randy Pobst, a race car driver with more talent/experience than everyone on Autospies combined.

reply to this comment

dayday - 8/31/2008 5:24:54 AM

+4 Boost

i think R8 is very great, its one of the best car in the world. it has a perfect balance between a super car quality and an everyday drive ability.

but i think for a "BEST HANDLING CAR", its not quite there yet.

reply to this comment

Heyhuub - 8/31/2008 6:04:53 AM

0 Boost

Considering on a track it can keep up with cars that are more powerfull and maybe even lighter i'd say it is doing one hell of a job.

dayday - 9/1/2008 2:53:50 AM

+1 Boost

its doing a great job FOR SURE!

F1_Driver - 9/1/2008 5:48:15 PM

+1 Boost

But F1 cars are not street legal.

reply to this comment

Speedoholic - 8/31/2008 4:59:39 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Lotus Elise, small, light and powerful = excellent overall performance

reply to this comment

Matthew1 - 8/31/2008 7:15:24 PM

+1 Boost

This article's title is practically an article in itself.

reply to this comment

Lexus - 9/1/2008 12:43:03 AM

+2 Boost

The Audi R8 is definitely one of the best sportcars out there, but NOT the best. Road & Track did a Ultimate Track Test on their Sept issue for the following super sportcars.

1. Corvette ZO6
2. Lambo LP560-4
3. Aston Martin DBS
4. Porsche 911 GT2
5. Nissan GT-R
6. Viper ACR
7. Audi R8
8. BMW M3
9. Lotus Exige S240
10. Mitsubishi Evo MR

The results are:
1st- Lambo LP560-1
2rd- Viper SRT10 ACR (0.11 sec behind)
3rd- Nissan GT-R (0.45 sec behind)
4rd- Porsche 911 GT2 (1.32 sec behind)
5th- Audi R8 (2.21 sec behind
6th- Corvette ZO6
7th- Aston Martin DBS
8th- BMW M3
9th- Lotus Exige S 240
10th- Mitsubishi Evo MR

You can read about the test spec for yourself from the Road & Track Sept issue.

Lexus

reply to this comment

FerrarisR4me - 9/1/2008 6:18:37 PM

+1 Boost

I think best handling car has to be broken up in to 2 segments. Best at the limit handling car... what just flat out pulls the most G's and what is the easiest to drive at a high limit. Because I think you can argue that each would be the best but the same car wouldn't be both. As for what each would be... I have no idea b/c I haven't driven most of these cars... but if someone wants to give me the keys to determine it, I'll be more than happy to find out!

reply to this comment

FerrarisR4me - 9/1/2008 6:20:02 PM

+1 Boost

By the way... in any extreme performance test... shouldn't there be a Ferrari present? A Scuderia or a 599 I have to believe would have made a run for top place...

reply to this comment

Lexus - 9/1/2008 11:09:12 PM

+1 Boost

If the Ferrari F430 Scuderia was in this test it would've a very good chance of taking first place. If I have the money, I would get the Ferrari F430, Gallardo, or the Aston Martin DBS.

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