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Is Toyota Tightening The Belt Too Much On Lexus?

Agent009 submitted on 8/28/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 2:50:49 PM

65 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: www.autoblog.com

The writing has been on the wall for some time.

Although the Lexus flagship graduated from "concept" to "prototype" when it campaigned in the 24 Hours of Nurburgring, Toyota has refused to even hint at a production date for the V10 supercar. Then Toyota declined to plonk an LF-A silhouette on their Super GT racer, electing to continue with the doomed SC 430 jello mold.

Then news broke that production cars would cost a whopping $225,000, but the LF-A still wouldn't turn a profit. Needless to say, Toyota doesn't like things that are not profitable.

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Is Toyota Tightening The Belt Too Much On Lexus?

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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
— Agent009 (View Profile)

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I'm inclined to start believing that this car will never be produced.
— 222max (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 2:59:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 16

I agree, and if so it will be a very sad day around here.

I actually thought it would be a real good thing for Lexus, even if it didn't win out on top of the pyramid.

— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:14:42 PM | | Votes: -4

I am disappointed if this turns out to be true. It is an exciting concept... but that's the problem isn't it. It has never been anything but a concept.

My question is this: How come super-rich and powerful Toyota can't finish this car and sell it for a credible price while the much smaller Nissan and Honda have done it or are about to do it?
— 222max (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:23:19 PM | | Votes: 4

Especially in light of the fact that VW brought the Bugatti Veyron to market knowing it is simply an engineering exercise.

Somethings need to be proven not profited from. This way the envelope always is pushed.

I guess it is the difference between a technological milestone compared to a profit milestone.

Now if Toyota was in dire straight
s then that is a different issue.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:57:22 PM | | Votes: 7

Well, it's quite unfair for nearly every super/sports-car manufactures out there.
They're all pressurized by the super/turbo-chargers in terms of power...but I think Lexus can take this chance and put their hybrid system into use...a hybrid-charger x] AWD?

I've heard that old rumor before, and I believe it would be a much better halo car for Lexus. It would be a nice representation of the wonderful collaboration of the Lexus Hybrid Drive and F...shuts up the people saying that the LF-A goes against the Lexus image. Anyone agree?
— WorldofLuxury (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 11:14:14 PM | | Votes: 0

I'm inclined to think it's not in Toyota's best interest to produce the car now, given the direction of the market, public perception, and their misguided idea of what it should be. As a SC replacement it made a lot of sense: slight price bump, new design, sportier high-end coupe to compete with the Mercedes SL and BWM 6 series (and undercut the Audi R8). I thought it made a lot of sense as that car.

As a $250k halo supercar, though, it would be a marketing blunder: unlikely to live up to expectations, unlikely to be competitive, likely to lose money, and unlikely to increase sales for the rest of the brand. It just doesn't make sense to bring it to market in that misguided form.
— sigmabody (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 6:51:22 PM | | Votes: 0

Agent 009, Toyota is in dire straits... creatively.
— crackityjones (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2008 2:53:10 AM | | Votes: 1

This car was a LIE from the beginning, a publicity stunt. And a Joke to those who believed it.

This is utterly humiliating and embarassing for a company the likes of Toyota.

The once radical concept is now so old its already dated looking.

Thats right Toyota, have your so called "supercar" department bow down to Nissan and Honda. Instead of promises, they will actually deliver.
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:08:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

I don't think TOYOTA will go thru all of this for a lie. All they need to do is to source AWD from NISSAN and lower the price to 150K and bang! You got a product that'll give everyone a hard time, except NISSAN maybe.

I really like the way they mount the radiator in the back, and I hope that'll make it to new Supra, if that'll be real.
— dlin (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:46:10 PM | | Votes: -3

The new Supra was cancelled. Toyota stated this in a press release early this month.

Toyota no longer = Sports cars
— w209w114 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 2:08:53 PM | | Votes: 2

shattered dreams
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2008 4:26:59 PM | | Votes: 1

I'm glad the daily Lexus posting quota has been met for today.
— HSCenterconsole (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:10:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

Just need the BMW, Merc, Audi, and Infiniti to be complete.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:17:38 PM | | Votes: 3

Actually I am hoping the BMW quota is filled by now. How about some news from Mitsubishi..LOL
— NItePhire (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:26:47 PM | | Votes: -3

when mitsu has something we will post it
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:58:11 PM | | Votes: 2

The EVO X is pretty hot.
— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 8:59:17 AM | | Votes: -1

Toyota is just being humble like they have always been. Maybe times are tuff economically to produce such a car and make a profit. Even BMW is not bringing out an R8 competitor.

The industry as a whole will shrink in the future and only a few will remain.They are looking into the future.
— AmazonPrinceIS350 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:21:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

But BMW hasn't paraded an R8 competitor concept car around for years at auto shows. Lexus has been dragging out the LF-A for what feels like an eternity now. How do you say "sh-t or get off the pot" in Japanese?
— HSCenterconsole (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:43:33 PM | | Votes: 6

1. The LFA at 225,00 isnt an Audi anything competitor.....2.where the Audi R8 is a combination of VW group parts....the LFA is a completely new car, not a restyled, retuned, car that has already been produced by another brand.. Im going to assume Lexus is being smart business wise with not creating a car they dont need, and isnt profitable.....
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 9:19:06 PM | | Votes: -4

I guess you are talking about the Gallardo, bmwdrvr. V10 engine in Gallardo is based off the Audi 4.2 V8, which is based of the Audi 3.2 V6. Gallardo was also the first Lambo built under the ownership of Audi. Looks like it's all Audi to me.

Can't resist taking a shot at Audi any chance you get, huh?
— aarononymous (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 9:45:13 PM | | Votes: 0

AGAIN...ITS A VW GROUP PARTS BIN....what I always think is funny is the Audi crazed on here, that claim your just taking shots at the brand and being bias when its the truth....It didnt take much in the way of added costs to retune, and restyle a car that already been done....the R8 is a parts bin car...LExus would have to completely engineer a new car that may or may not be able to share parts with the rest of the lineup........so the comparison is null and void....but fine if you want to wine about the truth, as what the R8 is seems to be to much for you fine by me, it just supports my ongoing point about these cars...
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2008 11:52:55 AM | | Votes: -2

I make sure my doors are locked when you post in all caps. Ooooo....

You haven't really made a solid point yet. Ohhh hey everybody, bmwdrvr just let the cat out of the bag. Audi is owned by VW. That's about the extent of your facts so far.
— aarononymous (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2008 3:10:36 PM | | Votes: 0

How in the hell do you not make a profit on a 250g car unless you only make 100 of them???
— NItePhire (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:25:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Actually, GM is a complete failure.. I mean, just ask the tax payers what GM and the other 2 failures out of Detroit are lobbying for.
— Lemonade (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 6:27:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

A very rich and successful "failure". You should fail like they have. What a stupid remark.
— cbro980 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 6:36:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

"Former Nissan racer, NSX development driver and Nurburgring legend Motoharu 'Gan-san' Kurosawa reckons, 'Toyota are good at making money, but they're no good at making sports cars.'"

Oh no you ditn't!
— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:33:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

this might be bait and switch marketing they will release it but they just don't want to let the cat out of the bag yet
— kpaxx (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:43:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

from those pics they are way off a production tester anyways!
— kpaxx (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:44:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

All the automakers are over-reacting to the current market situation because they under-reacted.

Toyota, in particular, has lost its focus on Lexus. But they also lost focus on Scion.

In fact, you could say that Toyota lost its Mojo as soon as it became #1 because it grew so fast, forgetting what brought them success in the first place (i.e. high quality cars at a good value).
— Maverick2020 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:50:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

This makes sense. I get that Lexus wanted to enter the performance market seeing the success of "M" and "AMG" lines and bring the take on it. Now I think the see the reality of the market place. The IS-F never came close to winning a comparison test and its sell have been tepid. I believe Lexus has to ask themselves; do are buyers want a sports car? Is there really a market for our brand of performance cars? I think the market answer so far is, resounding "eh". Lexus is unique as a pure luxury/comfort car maker, I think with the canceling of the GS-f and indefinite delay of the LF-A is their realization of this. Why waste and lose money on a car that probably not going to bring them that much.

If it's any consolation, if the "F line" fails the IS-F should become a collectors car.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 3:54:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

I hope this is not true, if it is, than I hope they will use this technology to bring the Toyota. If and when they do decide to bring the Toyota Supra back.

The Lexus LF-A look and perform really good, but the asking was to high in my opinion.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 4:01:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I doubt this is true . Thinking logically , if you invest so much money and have completed project in >90% ( at least we saw riding LF-A on nurburgring ) you probably wouldn`t lost all that money simply completely ending project . Even if car isn`t profitable it will sell in some amount and some money will be back , even if not all , like bugatti veyron - more they sell , less they lose on project .
— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 6:26:11 PM | | Votes: 2

correction,

than I hope they will use this technology for the new Toyota Supra, if and when they decide to bring it back.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 4:03:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I think they need to take that LF-A technology and build the supra again and then they can makeover the SC for a more pleasing look because the first sc was a big seller for lexus back in the 90's next to the GS.
— B7FAN (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 4:35:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Ahhh... Supra...

One of my favorite car while I was in high school. I might have worked my butt off for the car if the insurance allow me to drive one.
— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 4:52:31 PM | | Votes: 1

This isn't Tightening. This is smart move by people at Toyota. Other then select few, who in the world is going to pay nearly $0.25 Mil for something that is made in Asia? If it isn't their prime property, there is no way I am going to caugh up that kind of money.
— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 4:46:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Lexus, stick to grandparents. It's a lot easier to make cars for them and you own the market.

love,
bob
— MBKing (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 5:04:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

There is a reason that this article is posted as part of the "Rumormill" section.
If Lexus cancels the LF-A, why would people think that Acura or Infiniti are going to bring out supercars? If any
car company in the world has the money and technology to keep a project going, it is Toyota.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 5:46:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

Nissan already has a production-viable basis for an Infiniti badged supercar. But even if they chose not to make one they already have the GT-R.

I speculate that Toyota has already spent a ton on the LF-A and yet it still doesn't show the promise of bettering the competition.

So what do they do? Throw more money at it or cut their losses and scrap the whole thing?
— 222max (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 6:18:47 PM | | Votes: 2

You work for Lexus?
— 222max (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 7:14:20 PM | | Votes: 5

The RX-F, What the hell?
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 7:35:12 PM | | Votes: 4

"If any car company in the world has the money and technology to keep a project going, it is Toyota."

I love it when Toyota fanboys keep throwing this pathetic excuse at us. Maybe Toyota should start investing in projects that make sense and work. I mean what the hell is it with the LS600h for example? Clean and green? You'd have to be severely retarded to believe that.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 7:42:04 PM | | Votes: 4

Don't forget about the "ES-F". LOL!
— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 9:06:30 AM | | Votes: -1

Maybe your king, but not my king.
— ceric (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 7:21:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

This has nothing to do with them being king or not. The fact their first big chance to prove themselves in the sports grand touring class is in jeopardy. If they don't come out with it then you can say Lexus is a failure in the sporting department. All they can back themselves with is the "reliability" and "hybrid" offerings. In other words, nothing exciting.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 8:57:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

I speaky lexus , friend non ?
— thecar (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 2:27:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

i have been saying this in every one of my lfa posts. now i say i told u so. for the guy that said gs-f has been scrapped already. is-f gets whooped by everything. lexus stick to boring yet good luxury cars for old people.
— markanthony0419 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 8:57:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Toyota Supra proved Toyota can make THE BEST SPORTS CAR IN THE WORLD IF THEY SO CHOSE TO!
DrFill
— DrFill2009 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 10:36:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

I am sorry but Supra wasn't a best sports car in the world. It was just good p***y magnet that was happened to be on many people's reach.
— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 1:48:25 AM | | Votes: 2

Oh please. That was years ago, don't mean squat today. Apparently Nissan, Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette and soon Acura has Lexus going back to the drawing board.

The Supra wasn't the best sports car in the world either. Period. Some of you Toyota fans are as dumb as the day is long.
— Mercedes (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 2:51:48 AM | | Votes: 8

ROTFLMAO
— 1evlaudi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 10:52:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Toyoat didn't make money on the Prius for about the first 8 years. I think its because the LF-A isn't getting the numbers they want.

As for not being good with sports cars, I bet a carbon fibre Supra TT could keep up with a GT-R. The '93 Supra can beat anything Nissan has now besides the GT-R.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 10:57:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

A 93 Supra was already beaten by a 90 911 Turbo.
I remember a Best Motoring race where a 650hp Veilside Supra got humiliated by a 1987 F40 on Tsukuba.
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 10:17:39 AM | | Votes: 1

Make that carbon fibre and aluminum.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/28/2008 10:57:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

I had a feeling this might happen.
— hpfreak (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 4:04:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

No doubt this delay is a worry but still i think Lexus will most certainly bring the LF-A. LF-A is not a normal/usual concept. We have seen it evolving and improving (both on auto shows and track) all this time especially the last (LF-A Cabrio with F badges) actually seemed very near to production. So Toyota no doubt is very serious about the project.

It's just that i think in all this time more new and new models have come and raised the performance bar so Toyota has now decided to fight those models as well. Example if earlier their target was 599 or LP640 now it's 430 Scuderia...etc as well.

Anyways i hope all this delay means LF-A performance getting better and better.

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 6:41:58 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Not "if" but when.
— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 9:02:30 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

I'm feeling Sushi right now.
— MrGunFun (View Profile)

Posted on 8/29/2008 2:46:06 PM | | Votes: 0

Ahh, not surprising, more Lexus sucks thread posted by Agent 900 yrs old. It sure does bring out the Europeanian cult and fanatic members.
— hatepusss (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2008 12:58:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Toyota is true to form here. Lexus has always been an exercise in conservatism.

By the way, not everyone on this site who hates Lexus is a European car fan. Some of us just dislike boring cars. I think lots of Japanese cars are cool. None happen to be made by ToyLex.
— crackityjones (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2008 2:51:34 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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Is Toyota Tightening The Belt Too Much On Lexus?

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