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Japan Rumor: Is Lexus working on an IS-F/R?
According to the latest rumors from Japan Lexus could be working on even fast and lighter version of the upcoming Lexus IS-F. WindingRoad reports that the car will be Lexus’ attempt to close the gap between the IS-F and the new BMW M3 and the Mercedes C63 AMG.

Dubbed the Lexus IS-F/R, the meaner IS-F will be powered by a Yamaha produced 5.0 liter V8 engine that pumps out... Read Article
Japan Rumor: Is Lexus working on an IS-F/R?



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BMWfan_AlfredoBMWfan_Alfredo - 12/12/2007 4:01:57 PM
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if Lexus really wanted to make a statement, there would be no gap between the M3 and C63 AMG..

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stash84stash84 - 12/14/2007 5:20:05 PM
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there is a HUGE gap between the c63 and the m3, in hp and torque


SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 12/12/2007 4:05:02 PMView My AgentSpace
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Lexus should focus on making a coupe already, and toyota should focus on bringing back the Toyota Supra.

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NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/12/2007 6:13:19 PM
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Lexus is building a coupe and conv, and Toyota is developing the Supra. The car below has already been show at dealer conventions.

http://www.automobilemag.com/future_cars/2008/0609_2009_lexus_is_convertible/index.html





HyundaiHyundai - 12/13/2007 3:45:14 PM
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Notjustlex,

The car below was not shown at dealer conventions because that is simply a poor photochop of an IS sedan. I have heard from reliable sources that the IS coupe will be much more sleek and low than the IS sedan and will not be confused with an IS sedan simply with two door removed.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/12/2007 4:29:33 PM
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how original.

mercedes launches black series amg, audi does rs, bmw does M csl...and now lexus follows as usual.

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AnthonyAnthony - 12/12/2007 4:52:44 PM
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And yet nobody blamed AMG and RS for following CSL. If the end-result is a great bare-bones performance car, who really cares?


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/12/2007 5:44:02 PM
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xero:

good to know you're alive and well. have a wonderful holiday.


HyundaiHyundai - 12/13/2007 3:50:01 PM
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lol @ enthusiastx11..

If a German copies a German it is praiseworthy and uber-cool but, if a Japanese car maker copies a German, then the Japanese car maker needs to be dismissed as an unoriginal fraud!

Yes, happy holidays... weasel.


HyundaiHyundai - 12/14/2007 11:23:42 AM
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And btw, Xero, that was a hilarious comment. I just wanted to let you know that I laughed reading it.


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 12/12/2007 4:43:25 PM
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ICONICON - 12/12/2007 10:44:19 PM
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yeah, I guess you are right-that M5,S6,etc are pretty goofy autos aren't they? Brilliant!

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AgentOrangeAgentOrange - 12/12/2007 5:18:36 PMView My AgentSpace
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If at first you don't succeed, try, try again...

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theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 12/12/2007 5:59:08 PM
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It better have a manual trans, if they want it to be a true enthusiast car.

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NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/12/2007 6:16:07 PM
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Wave of the future? The manual transmission is the oldest drive system out there. There will be none left in 10 year.


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 12/12/2007 9:00:59 PM
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It also the most fun and the most engaging, don't count the manual trans out yet. Plus most serious performance car still have a manual trans in some form; shift, DSG or SMG.


NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/13/2007 12:00:23 AM
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A manual is the purest feel you can have right now. Technology will surpass the old style manual and produce a quicker esier system. The SMG the wave of the future either.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/13/2007 1:17:47 AMView My AgentSpace
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"The manual transmission is the oldest drive system out there."

And? Does newer always = better? That is quite narrow-minded, and it won't get you very far in whatever business you do. Improvements that truly improve are welcomed; "improvements" that are there for the sake of novelty are regurgitated.


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 12/13/2007 2:28:32 AM
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The current manual transmission is about perfect. It's slick, quick, excellent clutch and very easy to drive. (starting on a hill without the handbrake thx to clever electronics..)


GetemHigh125GetemHigh125 - 12/12/2007 6:03:22 PM
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maybe im dumb but really now, who would buy the is-f when you can just get the c63 amg or rs4? man a black rs4 passed me by while i was walking to my car and the exhaust sounded ridiculous

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NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/12/2007 7:04:40 PM
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Maybe I'm dumb too but most educated people that can afford these cars will not buy one for the exhaust note.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/13/2007 1:20:08 AMView My AgentSpace
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"Maybe I'm dumb too but most educated people that can afford these cars will not buy one for the exhaust note. "

Um, I don't really know what to say to that.

#1. You're obviously not a performance car buyer. I am in this market, and one of the first things I notice (and the first impression) in a performance car is the exhaust note. It's gotta sound good.

#2. The RS4 is not only an exhaust note... but it offers everything that the IS-F has, and more. It has a manual transmission. It has AWD. It has classy, muscular, timeless styling. It has perfect steering. The V8 is a gem--it makes a bit more horsepower than the IS-F with 0.8 less liters of displacement. It's worth every penny, and yes, I still want one.

There you go.


1995e341995e34 - 12/12/2007 6:05:15 PM
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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 12/12/2007 6:19:39 PM
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Let's all copy BMW. Again.

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NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/12/2007 6:41:59 PM
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If it has 4 wheels and rolls they are all copies. Its evolution.


MonkMonk - 12/12/2007 11:46:04 PMView My AgentSpace
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you mean copies of Mercedes lol


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 12/12/2007 6:26:02 PM
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Who ironic, I find your comment "in general are goofy" in my opinion.

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supermotosupermoto - 12/12/2007 6:47:25 PM
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Too funny! This is just an admission that the IS-F fails to compete. Better luck next time!

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NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/12/2007 6:58:56 PM
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I'm not sure you understand the concept of competition. If you know the car and the specs, the competions is in it's numbers. The only difference is going to be in the seat and that is all subjective. Every car in this class is an exceptional achievement. The driver is the only thing that will make one perform better than the other. You can bench race all you want seeing is believing.


huu76huu76 - 12/12/2007 7:23:54 PM
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Maybe I'm mistaken but doesn't the IS-F already make 417hp? Can't remember the torque number.

Copy BMW? It's too bad all cars need doors and tires.
Lexus is still pissed that the SC doesn't get any credit for giving Bangle his inspiration.
In fact, I bet Nissan is still fuming that Bangle's crap Fiat coupe stole their ZX's nose.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/2432000-2432999/2432405_1.jpg
http://www.4kruzn.com/car_images/024/images/300zx1.jpg
Put the right badge on it, and even an enthusiast will buy a Fiat.

I'll wait for a more credible source, but since the IS-F is already better than the M3, the only gap is the one that this new IS would create. AMG is going to need an 8 litre engine to catch up.

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BillBill - 12/12/2007 8:09:23 PM
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Funny how Huu76, who claims to be so informed, is really a dumb moron with nothing intelligent to say. I am sorry, but everytime I read your posts I see distorted facts and BS.

For your information, the IS-F is "not better than the M3". They've not even been compared to each other yet.

Second, AMG doesn't need an 8-liter engine for anything. The AMG philosophy likes to use big displacement engines because of the torque generated. In DTM, AMG utilizes a 4.0 V8 engine with 450-horsepower (officially claimed, but probably more). In other words, they know how to break the 100-hp/liter barrier. Heck, Kia could do the same thing if they wanted to. Or Tatra. Or Proton.

Idiot.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/12/2007 9:19:00 PM
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"Lexus is still pissed that the SC doesn't get any credit for giving Bangle his inspiration."

are you INSANE? the SC is an egg with four wheels. and it looked tired and dated within a couple of years. now it just looks ridiculous.

bangle is about hard edges, folds in the metal, sharp character lines down the side of the cars. in fact, absolutely NOTHING like an SC.


ICONICON - 12/12/2007 10:54:10 PM
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huu - what planet are you from. Ridiculous posts spewing from you constantly.

Tell us wise one how do you substantiate your claim that the IS-F is better than the M3?

Oh, and the SC design was ripped off? WTF! That extruded piece of crap that doesn't know if it is coming or going has been such a huge success I am sure every auto designer wants to copy it. LMAO

Idiot


NotjustlexNotjustlex - 12/13/2007 12:07:06 AM
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The current SC is the ugliest car Lexus has ever produced but it is still a sales success. Quality, fit,finish and resale sometimes sell cars. The next generation SC with the new L finesse styling should be a vast improvement. The GS-F and SC-F may change many opinions of Lexus in the next couple of years.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/13/2007 1:15:33 AMView My AgentSpace
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The Lexus SC430 came out in 2001 as a 2002 model. The BMW 7 Series also came out in 2001 as a 2002 model. I don't see how what you say works. The SC has a tacked-on spoiler in the back. The 7 Series's is all bodywork.


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 12/13/2007 2:27:32 AM
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huu76, you are so wrong.

Welcome to the real world!


gsh23gsh23 - 12/12/2007 7:55:27 PM
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wait, so power goes up to 429hp, weight down 220lbs. so about 9% improvement.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/12/2007 8:46:22 PMView My AgentSpace
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What is the point of this? There's barely any perceptible gap between them right now. This would be more of an M3 CSL/Audi RS4 Plus (?)/Merc C63 AMG Black competitor, but I'm not sure if this is really Lexus's forte. Their buyers want SOME semblance of luxury, even the performance enthusiasts.

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EL34EL34 - 12/12/2007 9:50:45 PM
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Monkey see, monkey do!

:(

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TheSailorTheSailor - 12/13/2007 5:10:44 AMView My AgentSpace
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Huuey, huuey, huuey... Still trying to discredit Bangle even though Lexus ripped off his 5-series for the LS huh?!

The SC came out in 2002... Same year as the 7-series... Don't know how much you know about car development (not a whole lot obviously) so Bangle can't possibly have drawn any inspiration from the SC... Also, the 7-series draws it's inspiration from Bangles 1999 Z9-prototype... What a pathetic attempt... Even you can do better than that!

Also, do you have any real proof that the IS-F is better at anything (except looking silly) than the M3? Because I haven't seen anything to support that!

Ohh... And finally, you do know why AMG is building engines with so large displacement, right? It is because it gives you the smoothest possible throttle response...

But anything to start a little "I hate the europeans"-rant, right?! Without the germans, your favorite brand wouldn't even exist and they would have no one to replicate...

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Designer1Designer1 - 12/13/2007 5:14:30 AM
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This would be stupid, why another version of IS-F that outputs only 12 hps? Just tune the same IS-F to get that power and get it over with.

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2ndbimmer2ndbimmer - 12/13/2007 10:18:59 AM
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Either way, I wont buy it. Even if it was $10. I am just not impressed by lexus at all. I understand why they are doing this. With such a HP war out there, technology advancing every second, you need to always have something on the back burner for the competition. it makes sense to me.

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RealitySmackRealitySmack - 12/13/2007 10:38:48 AM
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I would either take the M3 or the IS-F! Will have to wait and test drive both of them along with others. But, RS4 and C63 are way down the list for me since, don't like the box-on-wheel styling of the Audi and the overpriced MB. I also think that the RS4 is overpriced too and that's one other reason for not buying one. IS-F may be cheap and offer on the par performance while M3 may be a little overpriced but will offer proven performance. Decisions Decisions...

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/13/2007 1:45:23 PMView My AgentSpace
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RS4, box on wheels??? Well if you truly dislike it, wait for the B8. B7 is out of production.

And nobody even knows how much the C63 will cost yet! Nice try, though.


RealitySmackRealitySmack - 12/13/2007 2:14:33 PM
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Yea but, C63 will definitely be more expensive than others. Even though C63 is a monster, I think it'll be out of my budget. And that's why I'm sticking with IS-F and M3 since, M3 is a proven performer and probably a little more expensive than the IS-F. While the IS-F will have on par performance to M3 with a slightly lower price tag (hopefully).

I dislike the RS4 because I think it needs a little more body styling all around that's more flushed with the rest of the car. It JUST DOESN'T hug the ground for me like the other 2 do. And not to mention that I think it's overpriced considering how much M3 offers and the IS-F may offer with a lower price tag.

However, for a different class, I'd consider the S5 because I liked the overall styling of it better. Let's hope they set the bar high with the B8.


RealitySmackRealitySmack - 12/13/2007 7:18:01 PM
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Let's wait and find out, shall we?

For me, the better well rounded package is the IS-F and M3. Will find out when the time comes...


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/14/2007 1:05:06 AMView My AgentSpace
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"Yea but, C63 will definitely be more expensive than others."

The C63 AMG will most likely be priced in between the RS4 ($66K) and IS-F (~$60K).

"For me, the better well rounded package is the IS-F and M3."

Why? I'm honestly curious. What makes them more "well rounded" than the other two? If someone said that about the RS4, I would understand, because it has AWD. But those two? What makes them stand out from the rest? Or, more specifically, the IS-F?


TheSailorTheSailor - 12/14/2007 5:19:03 AMView My AgentSpace
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I think that, within this very narrow market, the IS-F and the M3 couldn't be less like! They are worlds apart (Again, within the narrow segment)... The M3 compares only to the RS4... If you don't like the looks of the RS4, that is okay... Your opinion isn't worth anything less than the rest of us... But if you claim that the M3 is a different type of performance car than the RS4, you couldn't be more wrong! The new M3 was made to better exactly that car and BMW is even reintroducing the M3 sedan, solely due to the RS4! BMW couldn't care less about the IS-F or the C63... The only car BMW is worried about is the new RS4/5 (and vice versa)...


RealitySmackRealitySmack - 12/15/2007 7:49:27 AM
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"The M3 and RS4 just seem more raw, especially the M3 with the high-revving F1 inspired power plant. They are all very fine autos."

Can't make any claims right now since, nobody has compared them side to side. And even then, I won't make a decision or shoot down one car until I drive it. I'm not the type of guy who takes ANY magazines seriously. Therefore, I do believe that the IS-F will be on par in performance to the other 3 and most likely cheaper. One thing I like is the sound of the exhaust, and the blipping when it changes gears. Kudos to them for getting it right!


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/16/2007 2:44:48 AMView My AgentSpace
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"M3 is high revving"

Sorry, just had to: the RS4 is also very high-revving. With V8s that redline at about 8000rpm, BMW and Audi have approached "automotive nirvana," as one TTAC author wrote in an RS4 review.


RealitySmackRealitySmack - 12/15/2007 9:27:18 PM
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I didn't say YOU shot down any car! I said "I" would not. I was just talking about myself there and saying what I would do. I wasn't pointing any fingers. The reason I quoted you was to point out that we don't have much data on what the IS-F will be like, besides the stupid magazine tests. We don't know how raw the IS-F is. So, I'll hold my verdict until I test drive it.

I am not THAT sensitive!

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huu76huu76 - 12/16/2007 12:20:10 AM
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To sailor and his know-nothing posse,
The Z9 and SC were released 2 weeks apart. The Z9 in "we'll think about it form" and the SC in final production form.
http://www.carstyling.ru/en/cars.1999_Lexus_Sport%20Coupe.html
http://seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2000-BMW-Z9-Convertible-Concept.htm
I forgive you ladies, I don't really expect people who judge a car merely by what name is on the hood to have a clue about anything. It's best you stick to your Fiats.

Hmmm, I suppose the C63 doesn't really use a 6.2L engine? I guess German litres are different from real litres.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/16/2007 2:46:28 AMView My AgentSpace
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"The Z9 and SC were released 2 weeks apart. The Z9 in "we'll think about it form" and the SC in final production form."

So?

Like I said before... the SC doesn't have a "Bangle butt." It has a tacked on spoiler!

And why would that be a compliment? Don't you hate the Bangle butt? Anything for Lexus to be "first" at, eh? Grasping for straws I see.


huu76huu76 - 12/16/2007 12:20:59 AM
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Sailor,
LOL, yeah, 3 years too late there buddy.

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huu76huu76 - 12/16/2007 12:50:54 AM
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ICON,
Simple, Lexus' 1st real attempt matches BMW's best efforts, and BMW has history or something on their side.
Big-Man-Wheels screwed up their design and don't have the balls to admit it, so they just slowly change their designs back as if it never happened knowing the blind BMW sheep will be oblivious.
The new X5 is virtually unchanged, the 3 coupe has backed off from the 3 sedans design, which was a milder version of the 5.
It's pretty bad when Buicks look better than Bimmers, GM probably knew something sending Bangle packing to Germany.

I don't see Lexus backtracking on their design no matter how many jealous Germans whine about it.

Lexus has some nerve giving the 2004 RX the 2006 S-classes headlights (nearly 4 years ago :)

If you want to know where the LS got it's flat trunklid, go back a generation or two and look at the GS.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/16/2007 2:50:49 AMView My AgentSpace
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"Big-Man-Wheels screwed up their design and don't have the balls to admit it"

You are insane!

I absolutely disagree. BMW has started industry trends. All of the luxury makers wouldn't be thinking about how to put "emotion" back into their designs if Bangle hadn't happened. They aren't going back to the '90s... they're refining the new designs, perfecting them. The E92 is the best example.

"The new X5 is virtually unchanged"

As an X5 owner, if you really look at it, it's hugely different. Way different in the back, especially. Much more flowing, much more elegant, much more modern.

"the 3 coupe has backed off from the 3 sedans design"

Since when is having different taillamps considered "backing off?" I am dumbfounded by this statement. The 3 coupe is beautiful. BMW's lineup doesn't have to be synonymous with being polarizing; the 3 coupe is contemporary BMW design at its best... NOT a revisitation of the past.

"It's pretty bad when Buicks look better than Bimmers, GM probably knew something sending Bangle packing to Germany."

You are kidding.

"I don't see Lexus backtracking on their design no matter how many jealous Germans whine about it."

You're right, they're copying BMW designs and not doing anything else.

"If you want to know where the LS got it's flat trunklid, go back a generation or two and look at the GS."

Blah, blah, blah... EXCUSES!


XYZZXYZZ - 12/16/2007 6:33:08 AM
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"BMW has started industry trends..."

ROTFLMAO!!!

bmw used to be SO BACKWARD with regard to headlights --next to the grill THE most identifiable characteristic of a car's 'face'-- they hung to ROUND headlights for decades after everyone else moved on to newer designs.

bmw hung on to round lites for SO LONG, they eventually came back into fashion again! (as sometimes happens)

then they experiment with the 'dame edna' eyes which started a whole NEW 'industry trend.' NOT!
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