LA Times writer slams the new Lexus LS

Agent001 submitted on 08/30/2006 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 12:55 PM
from: www.latimes.com

[192] user comments | category: Report Cards

Tags: Lexus, LS, LA Times

Tag Links:

Lexus

LA Times

LA Times writer slams the new Lexus LS

"As much as the Lexus nameplate has become the default choice for the sensible careerist looking for a well-built, well-priced luxury car, the brand still ranks near zero Kelvin on the prestige thermometer. You can cite all the ways that Lexus is a great car — best-selling luxury nameplate in the U.S. for six years running, perennially at the top of the J.D. Power heap in initial quality, vehicle dependability, customer satisfaction and return business — and I'll tell you that none of that matters. Compared to luxury brands like Mercedes-Benz, Cadillac, BMW and Audi, Lexus has the emotional appeal of a public golf course." Read Article

Comments:

Images hosted in your AgentSpace can now be posted in the comments section using the following syntax (case matters):
[img]IMAGE URL[/img]
Example: [img]http://agent004.myautospies.com/users/150/Sample-Gallery/sample1.JPG[/img]

vcowman - 8/30/2006 12:56:46 PM

+4 Boost

*cough* <awkward scilence>

reply to this comment

dualexhaust - 8/30/2006 12:58:05 PM

+2 Boost

This is pure BS except for the prestige part.

reply to this comment

vcowman - 8/30/2006 12:59:31 PM

-3 Boost

BMW530i - 8/30/2006 1:10:36 PM

+3 Boost

Wow. Before I read it, I thought this guy was going to slam the non-existant image of Lexus.

Instead, he tears apart the brand. I agree with some of his points, but he didn't have to sound so angry, which makes it rather funny that this guy is so pissed.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 1:17:54 PM

-1 Boost

i think the LA TIMES made things crystal clear.

reply to this comment

mkk21 - 8/30/2006 1:30:18 PMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

He put Cadillac with MB, BMW, and Audi? This guy is nuts!

reply to this comment

mkk21 - 8/30/2006 1:36:38 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Oh yeah one more thing...I wouldn't want my brand even mentioned on the hip hop artists 2005 Billboard Top 20. Do you think I want my car stolen? Plus why would you even want to appeal to this crowd, the image this crowd gives off is not really ideal.

reply to this comment

answer - 8/30/2006 1:37:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+9 Boost

Funny article. The guy goes to great lengths to mention all the numerous features the new LS has, and then goes on to dismiss them in the same breath because the car has a lack of style.

Style is subjective everyone! I might love the way a BMW 7 series looks, but you might think it looks like an 8 year old's vision of a "cool car."

Don't say a car isn't "worthy" just because it differs from your taste.

reply to this comment

BMW530i - 8/30/2006 2:09:44 PM

+1 Boost

I think what he meant about Cadillac's league when compared to brands like MB and BMW is that Cadillac has an IMAGE.

For example, Cadillac made the first V8 engine and brought forth many useful and funky innovations in the 1950-1990s such as rain sensors or headlights that dim when they sense oncoming traffic.

reply to this comment

kart1 - 8/30/2006 2:23:30 PM

+9 Boost

This review isn't very good. It seems the guy is more worried about prestige than the actual car itself. I mean he thinks that MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Cadillac are better cars than Lexus just because of the nameplate. He shouldn't be allowed to write again, he used Hip hop artists as the back ground for his analysis for the Lexus brand image, a poor indicator since there are very representative of the world market. If you have seen Hip hop videos you would see what is popular in this crowd. Also since he mentions Chevy from the study why doesn't he mention the other non-luxury brands as well. There is nothing in this article but pure bias. All he left out was: "The MB C230 Kompressor hatchback is better than any Lexus ever built because the MB has prestige." This guy should be on this website with the other Lexus haters. This review is useless because of so much bias - I won't take another LA times review seriously again.

reply to this comment

Jacob - 8/30/2006 2:39:12 PM

+5 Boost

The LA Times is not a reliable or unbiased source for news anymore. I agree with kart1. The review centers around prestige which already has been argued on this site. Prestige means absolutely nothing when it comes to producing a great car, as evidenced by the millions of people who already own a Lexus.

Someone should email this guy a link to AutoSpies, hed fit right in with all you other Lexus haters.

reply to this comment

Onyx - 8/30/2006 2:41:21 PM

+3 Boost

In the automotive world, prestige basically amounts to personal and professional opinions, about a specific vehicle that have accumulated and compounded over the vehicle's lifetime.

In my opinion - people who place that much value on prestige are obviously deficient in the self-confidence department and are shallow individuals who look to others for validation.

Slamming a vehicle because it did not satisfy the “prestige” criteria is a pretty weak argument when weighted against other industry standard criteria and other unnamed criteria that are unique to each individual.

reply to this comment

answer - 8/30/2006 2:47:05 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

If you can live without "prestige", look what you get in return:

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544

reply to this comment

jeff329 - 8/30/2006 2:49:44 PM

+7 Boost

Biggie Smalls, Snoop Dogg and Too Short all made mentions of Lexus in their songs.

reply to this comment

webguy - 8/30/2006 2:50:03 PM

+5 Boost

Lemming:
The act of following the crowd into an investment that will inevitably head for disaster.

If you purchase a car based on the need for approval by other people, I feel for you. Your life is probably miserable. Purchasing a car based on number of mentions by Top 40 artists or by the "image" the badge on the car provides is a clear indication of a need to feel better about yourself... but it will never be provided by material goods.

This car will sell based on the needs of people who buy it. He's right. It will not get your pulse racing and no, the shallow will not hold you in high regard as a BMW or Mercedes nameplate… but that’s not why everyone buys cars.

If you, personally, need to feel a rush every time you drive, Lexus is not your brand... but there are many emotions, and emotional appeal is in the eye of the beholder.

reply to this comment

answer - 8/30/2006 2:50:25 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

BMWexpert,

I totally agree with that last post. idrive is a really cool thing and it shouldn't be written off just because it takes a short while to get accustomed to. Ditto with the SMG.

reply to this comment

Designer1 - 8/30/2006 3:20:10 PM

+4 Boost

So sad we had idiot reporters, this guy is clearly none Lexus fan, but has so much hate to it, which means nothing that Lexus is kicking the competitors ass, which means makes the other car fans jealous. Anyone and I say ANYONE that talks about Prestige is an idiot. So you pay $80k for a car that more prono to break, and when it breaks it doesn't stop breaking and yet brag before people with Pristige? Why is this stupid stupid word poping up so much these days?
People, sucess is what counts, timetable is what counts and both of these Lexus got them so well with the LS, what took the German 50 years to gain prestige which gave them sucess, it took the Japanese 20 years to get the sucess, and the final goal here is SUCESS. :-)

reply to this comment

Designer1 - 8/30/2006 3:22:25 PM

+1 Boost

You can tell I got upset from my spelling by seeing a professional reporting writing an idiotic report. lol

reply to this comment

PlanoA4 - 8/30/2006 3:28:30 PM

-1 Boost

Dang! A negative Lexus article and I didn't even post it! I feel so proud!

reply to this comment

crackityjones - 8/30/2006 3:35:48 PM

+6 Boost

That wasn't a review. It was a hissy fit.

For those gloating over his histrionics, place your car's nameplate in his article.

Reviewers should review cars, not air their gripes.

We know a lot more about his personal issues than we do the Lexus he reviewed. We should all push for a more balanced attitude from journalists (air quotes.)

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 3:44:12 PM

-2 Boost

interesting that the cars with the high INITIAL quality are the ones no longer on the road after 10 years. i really don't know how much these reliability polls are accurate. the "least reliable" cars seem to be all the ones that are fun.

i know the japanese produce a great car. but i refuse to believe that the german manufacturers are selling for the prices they are just from having a prettier emblem on the hood.

i tend to believe that the japanese must have to be skimping in one area or another. these are 2 developed nations with at least semi-comparable economies (japan and germany). both nations are major steel producers. so how there just seems something fishy about lexus producing an "utterly superior" product at a significant discount. either the germans are robbing people blind, or the japanese are leaving something out.

i would bet it's somewhere in between.

reply to this comment

I95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 8/30/2006 4:08:16 PM

0 Boost

1995e34

THE GERMANS ARE ROBBING PEOPLE BLIND

ENO OF STORY

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 4:11:37 PM

+1 Boost

the knowledge i've had about the german's quality has been from owning them. i've never owned a car with a functioning cigarette lighter. that has been 3 german cars, and an american car. i would like to see the actual survey that jd power, or consumer reports uses.

speaking of cupholders and german cars.....

reply to this comment

BMW530i - 8/30/2006 4:15:54 PM

+1 Boost

Will,

Bad quality is bad quality. The problem is that many German autos are so flawed, that it's nearly impossible to "distinguish the type of problem." Don't bad-mouth JD Powers because "they have a viewpoint (actually, FACTS) different than yours."
----------------------------

You don't get it, do you?

If a cupholder in your Lexus breaks, does that mean the Lexus is "unreliable"? Of course not. It means the cupholder broke because of whatever reason. Either the plastics were cheap, you bought the XXL Diet Coke can and it didn't fit and snapped the plastics...whatever.

That's the issue here. These things bring a car down, yet have nothing to do with reliability.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 4:16:13 PM

0 Boost

will, how is it impossible to distinguish the problems? either you know that something is not working or you don't. and bad quality is can refer to many aspects of a car. it could be electronics, a/c system, engine durability, body quality, anything.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 4:25:04 PM

+2 Boost

i95speedingtickets, i would be willing to entertain that the germans overcharge, but every one i've owned has performed well beyond 150k miles. and i put hard commuter miles on my cars through some of the crappiest roads in america (boston).

reply to this comment

I95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 8/30/2006 4:29:10 PM

+5 Boost

Bottom line is Id never rely on surveys when making a Car Purchase Decision.

If Prestige were the most important thing is carbuilding then the Koenigsegg would be Rubbish, Not to mention Ariel Atom / TVR / Noble ...........

While i think the interior of the New S-Class is Marginally Better than the LS the Exterior of the LS is Better than that of the S-Class (IMO)

The LS460 goes up against the S550 and based on the Functions available and the Superior Build of the LS, For me it is a more sensible Purchase .
********SCREW PRESTIGE********

reply to this comment

I95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 8/30/2006 4:30:24 PM

0 Boost

Correction
Most important thing in carbuilding

reply to this comment

I95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 8/30/2006 4:38:14 PM

+1 Boost

1995e34
I accept your point
The MB vehicles from the mid 80s to mid 90s were built like TANKS

The problem arises with the new models, I think that the Germans became too complacent with their market domination.
I mean, how arrogant for MB execs to say their cars were "OVERENGINEERED". make the new models less solid, and then when the customers started comlaining and deserting them in droves they have now decided to go back to the old parametres of solid vehicles.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 4:42:55 PM

+2 Boost

i agree, prestige is for people wearing monacles and going fox hunting.

i can tell a lot more about build quality by the sound of a car door shutting than by a survey.

the LS may be the more sensible purchase, but a full-size luxury sedan hasn't much to do with sensibility.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 4:53:15 PM

0 Boost

as well built as the new LS likely is, i don't think many will look back 50 years from now and talk about it all teary-eyed. there are people killing to get their hands on mid-90's s-classes (yeah, most are crack dealers, but whatever).

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 5:13:07 PM

+2 Boost

will, c'mon, back to reality here will.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 5:19:05 PM

+2 Boost

you seem to have kinda a blind fanatacism for all things lexus. bmw and mercedes are my favorites, but i can certainly discuss their flaws and strengths in rational debate.

reply to this comment

Jay7 - 8/30/2006 5:19:13 PM

0 Boost

I never pay attention to these writers. Many are clearly biased.

This guy is just one person who disliked the LS. Once it comes out and the public gets their hands on the vehicle, then I'll start listening to what people are saying.

reply to this comment

lexusis350 - 8/30/2006 5:33:44 PM

+3 Boost

This guy was high on something because he said Lexus was below Cadillac! I can understand how it is arguable over Audi, BMW, and Mercedes but Cadillac? What kind of person wants one of those with all of the other options out there?

reply to this comment

stimling - 8/30/2006 5:43:17 PM

+3 Boost

What makes a car like the BMW or Merc prestigious and the lexus not?

Is it just History? Maybe I'm not too keyed into the concept but I don't view Audi in the same league as BMW or Merc.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 5:44:44 PM

0 Boost

i think the consoles of entry level german sedans are hardly anything special. they do much better when not in a a dogfight to hover prices around $30-35k.

and in terms of bmw, the 318ti was an attrocity.

and what i like most about lexus is their styling on their earlier models: original LS, original IS, original and 2nd gen GS, and especially the original SC. it wasn't revolutionary styling, but i think it was much better than current styling. i think lexus has gone south in styling while bmw has improved (89'-07').

reply to this comment

answer - 8/30/2006 5:55:12 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

1995e34,

I agree. Even though I am a Lexus fan I wish they would rethink their current design strategy. Nothing wrong with it, but I don't like have all the model lines look alike. (Same goes for BMW/Mercedes/Audi too).

I liked back in the 90's when the SC, ES, GS, and LS all looked different enough but were still very much a Lexus.

reply to this comment

KeyserSoze - 8/30/2006 5:55:27 PM

+1 Boost

So what if the review is bad! Lexus is owned by one of the most powerful and influencial companies in the world, they may not dominate world (Lexus) but they have done good for themselves so far.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 6:01:57 PM

0 Boost

yeah, but lexus' are harder to tell apart now than benzes even.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 6:05:03 PM

+1 Boost

the old lexus' were a bit bland, but certainly not ugly. and i don't think looking too mercedes like is bad looking, just not distinctive

reply to this comment

KeyserSoze - 8/30/2006 6:06:05 PM

+2 Boost

And has anybody noticed how irritating the guys who support the underachieving BS VW owned AUDI have become lately! They have such low self esteem trying to convice us how good AUDI is! BTW the turbos in the BUGATTI VEYRON are supplied by Mitsubishi.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 6:07:37 PM

+1 Boost

mitsubishi eh? where did you get that info? i'm curious to read the article

reply to this comment

stimling - 8/30/2006 6:12:15 PM

+2 Boost

My friend who owns an m5 likes the fact that its hard to pick out of a crowd and doens't draw too much attention. For $100k he could have a lot of cars that are attention getting so maybe Lexus owners like the "bland" styling. Its nice to have luxury without everyone around you knowing you have a luxury car.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 6:16:56 PM

+1 Boost

an m5 can be mistaken for a 5-series with sport wheels. there are a lot of 5-series, and the non-enthusiast can't tell the difference between it and the new camry

reply to this comment

I95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 8/30/2006 6:24:19 PM

+2 Boost

stimling
Thank You
The American Way of thinking is "Why Not Let Everybody Know what You Have"
The notion of Understatement makes no sense to the vast majority of them, hence the popularity of Blinged Up Barges like the Escalades & Navigators.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 6:30:31 PM

-1 Boost

and chrome rims!!!!!

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 6:31:50 PM

-1 Boost

i wouldn't just refer to it as an american way of thinking. think of the cultures that wear an ass-load of gold

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 6:52:50 PM

+2 Boost

he wasn't saying customers, he was saying costumers. duh. you know, people who taylor costumes? get with it

reply to this comment

stimling - 8/30/2006 6:59:51 PM

+4 Boost

1995e34, my wife can't pick out a BMW from a Toyota. When I start to point out the bangle butt, her eyes pretty much glaze over. (Which is probably why I'm having trouble convincing her I need a 330.)

reply to this comment

I95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 8/30/2006 7:08:04 PM

+2 Boost

Yes BMWexpert
Try using punctuations once in a while, it will help to make your Rants decipherable,

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 7:10:23 PM

+1 Boost

stimling, i recomend you appeal to her vanity and suggest how beautiful she would look in the 330.

reply to this comment

three2four - 8/30/2006 7:16:26 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Dear L.A. Times, I love you. LEXUS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and in nothing compared to Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi.

reply to this comment

stimling - 8/30/2006 7:18:17 PM

+2 Boost

Honey, look how the 330's Mystic Metallic Blue brings out the color of your eyes!

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 7:23:04 PM

+1 Boost

youve already been practicing i see

reply to this comment

stimling - 8/30/2006 7:25:17 PM

+2 Boost

Will, she's been eyeing some stainless steel kitchen applicances too so I better keep the IS pictures hidden away! :-)

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 7:30:36 PM

+1 Boost

he got you will

reply to this comment

Minimtl - 8/30/2006 7:31:42 PM

0 Boost

"...Compared to luxury brands like Mercedes-Benz, Cadillac, BMW and Audi, Lexus has the emotional appeal of a public golf course."

I, for one, respect Lexus and their products. For a japanese brand, they really show lots of good quality at a good price. Lets not forget that Acura falls into this also, even if they haven't been mentioned. I really love that part that i'm quoting because no matter how you think or what you say, it's true, its been branded that way... BUT honestly, i think he went to far and like many (i mean many) "so called" auto journalists, he's just blowing off steam and he's out there to make a buck like everyone else. I don't think he ever read the story of David and Goliath.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 7:39:57 PM

+1 Boost

minimtl, so who would be david, and who goliath?

reply to this comment

stimling - 8/30/2006 7:57:50 PM

+2 Boost

good point 1995e34, Lexus was david, put surely its Goliath now.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 8:06:38 PM

0 Boost

but lexus is the pinacle, the biggest, the favored winner of everything automotive.

i think to be david you have to be weaker, but catch goliath off gaurd.

so is lexus weaker, but got the germans off gaurd, or are they the beast that underdog bmw must slay?

reply to this comment

opus - 8/30/2006 8:34:15 PM

+2 Boost

I love when writers back up what I have been saying. Name a single Lexus that will be on considered a collectors car down the road. Even the god awful ugly SC 430 will be shunned by collectors. These cars are appliances that do their job very well, but they elicit almost zero emotion from anyone

reply to this comment

MaranelloMaster - 8/30/2006 8:34:35 PM

+4 Boost

only some insecure people ned this PRESTIGE nonsense. People with real money don't need to show people they have it...

reply to this comment

MaranelloMaster - 8/30/2006 8:38:36 PM

+3 Boost

people can but the LS for the DD (daily driver), and then buy a Porsche 911 for "emotional prestige"

what ever that is.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 8:46:19 PM

+3 Boost

i might want a bit more than a daily driver at $80k though. maybe i don't need "emotional prestige". i think that's what "natural male enhancement" might offer. but at $80k, i want to be looking out the window all day at work wishing i was driving it.

reply to this comment

Marcus - 8/30/2006 8:51:03 PM

+2 Boost

I'm amazed to see so many people try to tear down Lexus. I guess thats capitalism for you. Lexus is absolutely on par with Mercedes and BMW but these 3 companies make completely different cars for completely different customers. How hard is that to understand?

reply to this comment

anS4inOC - 8/30/2006 8:57:10 PM

+1 Boost

"Compared to luxury brands like Mercedes-Benz, Cadillac, BMW and Audi, Lexus has the emotional appeal of a public golf course."

"It's not a bad-looking sedan, ... but the instant I laid eyes on it, I was disappointed. Compared to the lyrical singspiel of Mercedes' CLS or the Audi A8, the LS is a dirge. Actually, it kind of looks like a Toyota Avalon with a post-graduate degree."

lol! These quotes are gems. It is kinda funny that this guy gets so pissed at times in the article.

"the emotional appeal of a public golf course" -- ouch.

reply to this comment

00JT - 8/30/2006 8:59:25 PM

+1 Boost

It's almost unbelieveable that people who hold professional jobs, such as an automotive journalist for the LA Times, can be so biased.

BTW I highly doubt that Mercedes, BMW, and Audi place a high emphasis on their cars being on the hip-hop Billboard Top 20 list of cars. Thats alright, I'd rather have Lexus rank #1 in JD Power anyways ;)

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 9:07:29 PM

+2 Boost

will, i enjoy luxury just as much as the next gluton, but if i'm behind the wheel, i want to pay attention to driving. anything selling for $80k+ should have plenty of luxury, and reliability. if you care enough about fuel economy to get a hybrid, you're probably not in the market for a full-size luxury sedan.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 9:10:36 PM

+1 Boost

hip hop billboard top 20 cars, what a legitimate reference. that guy really works for a major newspaper.

reply to this comment

BMW530i - 8/30/2006 9:11:21 PM

+1 Boost

Some of you might not care much for prestige, but the vast majority of luxury buyers do.

Why?

If you're going to spend a lot of money on something, it better stand for something or have a high desireability factor. Simple marketing.

Image also justifies a prestige pricing policy. BMW and MB do it.

Someone who buys a Lexus might not be into this whole image thing. They just want a well-equipped luxury car.

Those that go for the old European brands want that feeling of driving something with a powerful heritage etc.

reply to this comment

iown1 - 8/30/2006 9:16:51 PM

+2 Boost

Will

Relax. Someone like me who is in the market for a car like this will check it out. LA times means nada. However... don't put too much faith in those reliability ratings. I have had an A8L for 2 years now without so much as one problem and believe me, that's the only survey I'm going buy.

Still the LS is worth consideration.

reply to this comment

00JT - 8/30/2006 9:17:18 PM

+1 Boost

BMW530i,

Apparently North Americans think Lexus garners enough prestige which is why they are #1 selling.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 9:18:05 PM

+3 Boost

i got my bimmer cause it's the most fun, practical car i could afford. i got my bimmmer cause it was the most solid car i'd ever seen. both old european brands. i respect both for the major contributions they have made to the entire industry over the past century. but if they sold me a yugo with a fancy badge, they'd lose me. it's cool to have historical references for your car, a sort of automotive bloodline. but i bought those cars ultimately for what they are today, every time i turn the key. prestige is icing on the cake, not a sole reason to buy a car.

reply to this comment

stimling - 8/30/2006 9:18:13 PM

0 Boost

1995e34, Hybrids can increase HP as well as increase fuel efficiency - depending on how its tuned. The Lexus hybrid gets a little bit more MPG but a bunch more HP.

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 9:19:37 PM

+2 Boost

*****i meant i got the benz cause it's solid*****

reply to this comment

1995e34 - 8/30/2006 9:21:09 PM

+3 Boost

a turbo could do that as well, and would weigh less.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 8/30/2006 9:21:23 PM

+2 Boost

Over a hundred posts on it's first day. So much passion over a car that supposedly has none.

btw, this guy sounds like a typical yuppy or fob. He won't touch anything that's 5 min old for fear of it being out of style already.

reply to this comment

	Agent001 I like to go top shelf, where Mama hides the cookies
	View My AgentSpace