LA Times writer slams the new Lexus LS

*cough* <awkward scilence>

— vcowman (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 12:56:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

This is pure BS except for the prestige part.

— dualexhaust (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 12:58:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

"As much as the Lexus nameplate has become the default choice for the sensible careerist looking for a well-built, well-priced luxury car, the brand still ranks near zero Kelvin on the prestige thermometer. You can cite all the ways that Lexus is a great car — best-selling luxury nameplate in the U.S. for six years running, perennially at the top of the J.D. Power heap in initial quality, vehicle dependability, customer satisfaction and return business — and I'll tell you that none of that matters. Compared to luxury brands like Mercedes-Benz, Cadillac, BMW and Audi, Lexus has the emotional appeal of a public golf course." Says the LA Times, I dont think I need to say any more.

— vcowman (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 12:59:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Wow. Before I read it, I thought this guy was going to slam the non-existant image of Lexus.

Instead, he tears apart the brand. I agree with some of his points, but he didn't have to sound so angry, which makes it rather funny that this guy is so pissed.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 1:10:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

i think the LA TIMES made things crystal clear.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 1:17:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

He put Cadillac with MB, BMW, and Audi? This guy is nuts!

— mkk21 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 1:30:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8   

Oh yeah one more thing...I wouldn't want my brand even mentioned on the hip hop artists 2005 Billboard Top 20. Do you think I want my car stolen? Plus why would you even want to appeal to this crowd, the image this crowd gives off is not really ideal.

— mkk21 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 1:36:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Funny article. The guy goes to great lengths to mention all the numerous features the new LS has, and then goes on to dismiss them in the same breath because the car has a lack of style.

Style is subjective everyone! I might love the way a BMW 7 series looks, but you might think it looks like an 8 year old's vision of a "cool car."

Don't say a car isn't "worthy" just because it differs from your taste.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 1:37:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9   

I think what he meant about Cadillac's league when compared to brands like MB and BMW is that Cadillac has an IMAGE.

For example, Cadillac made the first V8 engine and brought forth many useful and funky innovations in the 1950-1990s such as rain sensors or headlights that dim when they sense oncoming traffic.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 2:09:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

This review isn't very good. It seems the guy is more worried about prestige than the actual car itself. I mean he thinks that MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Cadillac are better cars than Lexus just because of the nameplate. He shouldn't be allowed to write again, he used Hip hop artists as the back ground for his analysis for the Lexus brand image, a poor indicator since there are very representative of the world market. If you have seen Hip hop videos you would see what is popular in this crowd. Also since he mentions Chevy from the study why doesn't he mention the other non-luxury brands as well. There is nothing in this article but pure bias. All he left out was: "The MB C230 Kompressor hatchback is better than any Lexus ever built because the MB has prestige." This guy should be on this website with the other Lexus haters. This review is useless because of so much bias - I won't take another LA times review seriously again.

— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 2:23:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9   

The LA Times is not a reliable or unbiased source for news anymore. I agree with kart1. The review centers around prestige which already has been argued on this site. Prestige means absolutely nothing when it comes to producing a great car, as evidenced by the millions of people who already own a Lexus.

Someone should email this guy a link to AutoSpies, hed fit right in with all you other Lexus haters.

— Jacob (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 2:39:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

In the automotive world, prestige basically amounts to personal and professional opinions, about a specific vehicle that have accumulated and compounded over the vehicle's lifetime.

In my opinion - people who place that much value on prestige are obviously deficient in the self-confidence department and are shallow individuals who look to others for validation.

Slamming a vehicle because it did not satisfy the “prestige” criteria is a pretty weak argument when weighted against other industry standard criteria and other unnamed criteria that are unique to each individual.

— Onyx (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 2:41:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

If you can live without "prestige", look what you get in return:

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 2:47:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Biggie Smalls, Snoop Dogg and Too Short all made mentions of Lexus in their songs.

— jeff329 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 2:49:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

Lemming:
The act of following the crowd into an investment that will inevitably head for disaster.

If you purchase a car based on the need for approval by other people, I feel for you. Your life is probably miserable. Purchasing a car based on number of mentions by Top 40 artists or by the "image" the badge on the car provides is a clear indication of a need to feel better about yourself... but it will never be provided by material goods.

This car will sell based on the needs of people who buy it. He's right. It will not get your pulse racing and no, the shallow will not hold you in high regard as a BMW or Mercedes nameplate… but that’s not why everyone buys cars.

If you, personally, need to feel a rush every time you drive, Lexus is not your brand... but there are many emotions, and emotional appeal is in the eye of the beholder.

— webguy (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 2:50:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

BMWexpert,

I totally agree with that last post. idrive is a really cool thing and it shouldn't be written off just because it takes a short while to get accustomed to. Ditto with the SMG.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 2:50:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

So sad we had idiot reporters, this guy is clearly none Lexus fan, but has so much hate to it, which means nothing that Lexus is kicking the competitors ass, which means makes the other car fans jealous. Anyone and I say ANYONE that talks about Prestige is an idiot. So you pay $80k for a car that more prono to break, and when it breaks it doesn't stop breaking and yet brag before people with Pristige? Why is this stupid stupid word poping up so much these days?
People, sucess is what counts, timetable is what counts and both of these Lexus got them so well with the LS, what took the German 50 years to gain prestige which gave them sucess, it took the Japanese 20 years to get the sucess, and the final goal here is SUCESS. :-)

— Designer1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 3:20:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

You can tell I got upset from my spelling by seeing a professional reporting writing an idiotic report. lol

— Designer1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 3:22:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Dang! A negative Lexus article and I didn't even post it! I feel so proud!

— PlanoA4 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 3:28:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

That wasn't a review. It was a hissy fit.

For those gloating over his histrionics, place your car's nameplate in his article.

Reviewers should review cars, not air their gripes.

We know a lot more about his personal issues than we do the Lexus he reviewed. We should all push for a more balanced attitude from journalists (air quotes.)

— crackityjones (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 3:35:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

interesting that the cars with the high INITIAL quality are the ones no longer on the road after 10 years. i really don't know how much these reliability polls are accurate. the "least reliable" cars seem to be all the ones that are fun.

i know the japanese produce a great car. but i refuse to believe that the german manufacturers are selling for the prices they are just from having a prettier emblem on the hood.

i tend to believe that the japanese must have to be skimping in one area or another. these are 2 developed nations with at least semi-comparable economies (japan and germany). both nations are major steel producers. so how there just seems something fishy about lexus producing an "utterly superior" product at a significant discount. either the germans are robbing people blind, or the japanese are leaving something out.

i would bet it's somewhere in between.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 3:44:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

1995e34

THE GERMANS ARE ROBBING PEOPLE BLIND

ENO OF STORY

— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 4:08:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

the knowledge i've had about the german's quality has been from owning them. i've never owned a car with a functioning cigarette lighter. that has been 3 german cars, and an american car. i would like to see the actual survey that jd power, or consumer reports uses.

speaking of cupholders and german cars.....

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 4:11:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Will,

Bad quality is bad quality. The problem is that many German autos are so flawed, that it's nearly impossible to "distinguish the type of problem." Don't bad-mouth JD Powers because "they have a viewpoint (actually, FACTS) different than yours."
----------------------------

You don't get it, do you?

If a cupholder in your Lexus breaks, does that mean the Lexus is "unreliable"? Of course not. It means the cupholder broke because of whatever reason. Either the plastics were cheap, you bought the XXL Diet Coke can and it didn't fit and snapped the plastics...whatever.

That's the issue here. These things bring a car down, yet have nothing to do with reliability.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 4:15:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

will, how is it impossible to distinguish the problems? either you know that something is not working or you don't. and bad quality is can refer to many aspects of a car. it could be electronics, a/c system, engine durability, body quality, anything.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 4:16:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

i95speedingtickets, i would be willing to entertain that the germans overcharge, but every one i've owned has performed well beyond 150k miles. and i put hard commuter miles on my cars through some of the crappiest roads in america (boston).

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 4:25:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Bottom line is Id never rely on surveys when making a Car Purchase Decision.

If Prestige were the most important thing is carbuilding then the Koenigsegg would be Rubbish, Not to mention Ariel Atom / TVR / Noble ...........

While i think the interior of the New S-Class is Marginally Better than the LS the Exterior of the LS is Better than that of the S-Class (IMO)

The LS460 goes up against the S550 and based on the Functions available and the Superior Build of the LS, For me it is a more sensible Purchase .
********SCREW PRESTIGE********

— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 4:29:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

Correction
Most important thing in carbuilding

— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 4:30:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

1995e34
I accept your point
The MB vehicles from the mid 80s to mid 90s were built like TANKS

The problem arises with the new models, I think that the Germans became too complacent with their market domination.
I mean, how arrogant for MB execs to say their cars were "OVERENGINEERED". make the new models less solid, and then when the customers started comlaining and deserting them in droves they have now decided to go back to the old parametres of solid vehicles.

— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 4:38:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

i agree, prestige is for people wearing monacles and going fox hunting.

i can tell a lot more about build quality by the sound of a car door shutting than by a survey.

the LS may be the more sensible purchase, but a full-size luxury sedan hasn't much to do with sensibility.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 4:42:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

as well built as the new LS likely is, i don't think many will look back 50 years from now and talk about it all teary-eyed. there are people killing to get their hands on mid-90's s-classes (yeah, most are crack dealers, but whatever).

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 4:53:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

will, c'mon, back to reality here will.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 5:13:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

you seem to have kinda a blind fanatacism for all things lexus. bmw and mercedes are my favorites, but i can certainly discuss their flaws and strengths in rational debate.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 5:19:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I never pay attention to these writers. Many are clearly biased.

This guy is just one person who disliked the LS. Once it comes out and the public gets their hands on the vehicle, then I'll start listening to what people are saying.

— Jay7 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 5:19:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

This guy was high on something because he said Lexus was below Cadillac! I can understand how it is arguable over Audi, BMW, and Mercedes but Cadillac? What kind of person wants one of those with all of the other options out there?

— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 5:33:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

What makes a car like the BMW or Merc prestigious and the lexus not?

Is it just History? Maybe I'm not too keyed into the concept but I don't view Audi in the same league as BMW or Merc.

— stimling (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 5:43:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

i think the consoles of entry level german sedans are hardly anything special. they do much better when not in a a dogfight to hover prices around $30-35k.

and in terms of bmw, the 318ti was an attrocity.

and what i like most about lexus is their styling on their earlier models: original LS, original IS, original and 2nd gen GS, and especially the original SC. it wasn't revolutionary styling, but i think it was much better than current styling. i think lexus has gone south in styling while bmw has improved (89'-07').

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 5:44:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

1995e34,

I agree. Even though I am a Lexus fan I wish they would rethink their current design strategy. Nothing wrong with it, but I don't like have all the model lines look alike. (Same goes for BMW/Mercedes/Audi too).

I liked back in the 90's when the SC, ES, GS, and LS all looked different enough but were still very much a Lexus.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 5:55:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

So what if the review is bad! Lexus is owned by one of the most powerful and influencial companies in the world, they may not dominate world (Lexus) but they have done good for themselves so far.

— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 5:55:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

yeah, but lexus' are harder to tell apart now than benzes even.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:01:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

the old lexus' were a bit bland, but certainly not ugly. and i don't think looking too mercedes like is bad looking, just not distinctive

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:05:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

And has anybody noticed how irritating the guys who support the underachieving BS VW owned AUDI have become lately! They have such low self esteem trying to convice us how good AUDI is! BTW the turbos in the BUGATTI VEYRON are supplied by Mitsubishi.

— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:06:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

mitsubishi eh? where did you get that info? i'm curious to read the article

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:07:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

My friend who owns an m5 likes the fact that its hard to pick out of a crowd and doens't draw too much attention. For $100k he could have a lot of cars that are attention getting so maybe Lexus owners like the "bland" styling. Its nice to have luxury without everyone around you knowing you have a luxury car.

— stimling (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:12:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

an m5 can be mistaken for a 5-series with sport wheels. there are a lot of 5-series, and the non-enthusiast can't tell the difference between it and the new camry

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:16:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

stimling
Thank You
The American Way of thinking is "Why Not Let Everybody Know what You Have"
The notion of Understatement makes no sense to the vast majority of them, hence the popularity of Blinged Up Barges like the Escalades & Navigators.

— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:24:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

and chrome rims!!!!!

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:30:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

i wouldn't just refer to it as an american way of thinking. think of the cultures that wear an ass-load of gold

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:31:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

he wasn't saying customers, he was saying costumers. duh. you know, people who taylor costumes? get with it

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:52:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

1995e34, my wife can't pick out a BMW from a Toyota. When I start to point out the bangle butt, her eyes pretty much glaze over. (Which is probably why I'm having trouble convincing her I need a 330.)

— stimling (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 6:59:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Yes BMWexpert
Try using punctuations once in a while, it will help to make your Rants decipherable,

— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 7:08:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

stimling, i recomend you appeal to her vanity and suggest how beautiful she would look in the 330.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 7:10:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Dear L.A. Times, I love you. LEXUS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and in nothing compared to Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi.

— three2four (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 7:16:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Honey, look how the 330's Mystic Metallic Blue brings out the color of your eyes!

— stimling (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 7:18:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

youve already been practicing i see

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 7:23:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Will, she's been eyeing some stainless steel kitchen applicances too so I better keep the IS pictures hidden away! :-)

— stimling (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 7:25:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

he got you will

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 7:30:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

"...Compared to luxury brands like Mercedes-Benz, Cadillac, BMW and Audi, Lexus has the emotional appeal of a public golf course."

I, for one, respect Lexus and their products. For a japanese brand, they really show lots of good quality at a good price. Lets not forget that Acura falls into this also, even if they haven't been mentioned. I really love that part that i'm quoting because no matter how you think or what you say, it's true, its been branded that way... BUT honestly, i think he went to far and like many (i mean many) "so called" auto journalists, he's just blowing off steam and he's out there to make a buck like everyone else. I don't think he ever read the story of David and Goliath.

— Minimtl (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 7:31:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

minimtl, so who would be david, and who goliath?

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 7:39:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

good point 1995e34, Lexus was david, put surely its Goliath now.

— stimling (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 7:57:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

but lexus is the pinacle, the biggest, the favored winner of everything automotive.

i think to be david you have to be weaker, but catch goliath off gaurd.

so is lexus weaker, but got the germans off gaurd, or are they the beast that underdog bmw must slay?

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 8:06:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

I love when writers back up what I have been saying. Name a single Lexus that will be on considered a collectors car down the road. Even the god awful ugly SC 430 will be shunned by collectors. These cars are appliances that do their job very well, but they elicit almost zero emotion from anyone

— opus (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 8:34:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

only some insecure people ned this PRESTIGE nonsense. People with real money don't need to show people they have it...

— MaranelloMaster (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 8:34:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

people can but the LS for the DD (daily driver), and then buy a Porsche 911 for "emotional prestige"



what ever that is.

— MaranelloMaster (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 8:38:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

i might want a bit more than a daily driver at $80k though. maybe i don't need "emotional prestige". i think that's what "natural male enhancement" might offer. but at $80k, i want to be looking out the window all day at work wishing i was driving it.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 8:46:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

I'm amazed to see so many people try to tear down Lexus. I guess thats capitalism for you. Lexus is absolutely on par with Mercedes and BMW but these 3 companies make completely different cars for completely different customers. How hard is that to understand?

— Marcus (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 8:51:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

"Compared to luxury brands like Mercedes-Benz, Cadillac, BMW and Audi, Lexus has the emotional appeal of a public golf course."

"It's not a bad-looking sedan, ... but the instant I laid eyes on it, I was disappointed. Compared to the lyrical singspiel of Mercedes' CLS or the Audi A8, the LS is a dirge. Actually, it kind of looks like a Toyota Avalon with a post-graduate degree."

lol! These quotes are gems. It is kinda funny that this guy gets so pissed at times in the article.

"the emotional appeal of a public golf course" -- ouch.

— anS4inOC (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 8:57:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

It's almost unbelieveable that people who hold professional jobs, such as an automotive journalist for the LA Times, can be so biased.

BTW I highly doubt that Mercedes, BMW, and Audi place a high emphasis on their cars being on the hip-hop Billboard Top 20 list of cars. Thats alright, I'd rather have Lexus rank #1 in JD Power anyways ;)

— 00JT (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 8:59:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

will, i enjoy luxury just as much as the next gluton, but if i'm behind the wheel, i want to pay attention to driving. anything selling for $80k+ should have plenty of luxury, and reliability. if you care enough about fuel economy to get a hybrid, you're probably not in the market for a full-size luxury sedan.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:07:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

hip hop billboard top 20 cars, what a legitimate reference. that guy really works for a major newspaper.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:10:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Some of you might not care much for prestige, but the vast majority of luxury buyers do.

Why?

If you're going to spend a lot of money on something, it better stand for something or have a high desireability factor. Simple marketing.

Image also justifies a prestige pricing policy. BMW and MB do it.

Someone who buys a Lexus might not be into this whole image thing. They just want a well-equipped luxury car.

Those that go for the old European brands want that feeling of driving something with a powerful heritage etc.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:11:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Will

Relax. Someone like me who is in the market for a car like this will check it out. LA times means nada. However... don't put too much faith in those reliability ratings. I have had an A8L for 2 years now without so much as one problem and believe me, that's the only survey I'm going buy.

Still the LS is worth consideration.

— iown1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:16:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

BMW530i,

Apparently North Americans think Lexus garners enough prestige which is why they are #1 selling.

— 00JT (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:17:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

i got my bimmer cause it's the most fun, practical car i could afford. i got my bimmmer cause it was the most solid car i'd ever seen. both old european brands. i respect both for the major contributions they have made to the entire industry over the past century. but if they sold me a yugo with a fancy badge, they'd lose me. it's cool to have historical references for your car, a sort of automotive bloodline. but i bought those cars ultimately for what they are today, every time i turn the key. prestige is icing on the cake, not a sole reason to buy a car.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:18:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

1995e34, Hybrids can increase HP as well as increase fuel efficiency - depending on how its tuned. The Lexus hybrid gets a little bit more MPG but a bunch more HP.

— stimling (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:18:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

*****i meant i got the benz cause it's solid*****

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:19:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

a turbo could do that as well, and would weigh less.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:21:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Over a hundred posts on it's first day. So much passion over a car that supposedly has none.

btw, this guy sounds like a typical yuppy or fob. He won't touch anything that's 5 min old for fear of it being out of style already.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:21:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

JT,

Apparently North Americans think Lexus garners enough prestige which is why they are #1 selling.
----------------------------------------------

I don't think we think of Lexus as a "prestige brand". Most people I know bought their Lexus for the sole reason that it was cheaper than the European competitors and came better equipped. That has nothing to do with prestige.

Prestige is when there is something special about the brand, something desireable.

Right now, there really isn't anything special about Lexus. This isn't a slam on Lexus, but let's be objective here. Look at the history of Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes, even Audi. They've made cars that are desireable and world famous. The 507, 2002 Turbo, E-Type, 500K & 540K, 300SL Gullwing & Roadster, Audi Quattro etc.

WHAT DOES LEXUS HAVE?

Nothing. There really isn't anything prestigeous about owning a Lexus IMO. You get a nice car that's cheaper than the competition and comes with some more options and that's it.

No offense. ;)

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:30:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

i don't think #1 selling is even a bragging point for a maker. gm has been #1 in global salesforever, and that doesn't hold much weight.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:41:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

BMW530i,

Most Lexus' (especially the newer models) are nearly the same price as German cars. For example

Mercedes C350 is 38k (MSRP)
BMW 330i is 36k (MSRP)
Lexus IS350 is 35k (MSRP)

Audi A4 2.0T is 28k
BMW 325i is 30k
Mercedes C230 is 29k
Mercedes C280 is 33k
Lexus IS250 is 30k

BMW 530i is 47k
Mercedes E350 is 50k
Lexus GS 350 44k

In some cases Lexus cost more than the competition. If not, I believe that if someone shopping in this class of cars could afford to spend $1,000 to $5,000 more for a BMW, Audi, or Mercedes if they really wanted it. Most North American customers don't see the need to pay extra because they deem Lexus to have just as much prestige as a German brand.

— 00JT (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 9:50:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

i think gm will even out over the next few years. but by then toyota likely will be the global volume leader. i think gm screwed themselves by jumping on the suv bandwagon so quickly. short term profits were good, but what about when people want cars again?

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 10:04:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Lexus is david (prestige)and goliath (sales). Bmw and mercedes are the opposite. Lexus has the sales the other two want, the other two have the prestige lexus wants. I think we can all agree that auto enthusiasts modify their cars to their satisfaction, like a painter with a blank canvas. The Ls surely has some potential, check this out
http://www.clublexus.com/forums showthread.php?t=235058 . It is a little busy but it gives you an idea of how sporty the Ls can look if you want it to. The driving dynamics can also be changed with a simple coilover instalation or air suspension control unit.

— Jthree (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 10:24:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

so you have to modify an $80k car to make it sporty? i guess you don't save much over bmw or benz.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 10:33:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

530i,
I sort of see your point, but BMW and MB have had a 50 year headstart. All it takes is 1 or 2 model screwups to erase that (MB/BMW are one 1 now).

Look at it this way. The Messerschitt Folke-Wulf fw109 and Mitsubishi A6M (Zero) were equally revered (maybe the Zero more because it was ship based). Anyway, both were built at around the same time. If you consider it's weight to power ratio, it was a precursor to weight management and power efficiency of today. The fs109 had 1560hp and the Zero 780hp, but the Zero could outclimb it. But anyway, this so-called prestige is based on time, and can be easily wrecked (look at GM/Ford).

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 10:41:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Everything BMW530i said I 100% agree on.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 11:13:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

First of all I'd like to address to what mkk21 said about appealing to the hip hop crowd. I think you're stupid for even coming back to say that. So you think if your car's on that list it'll get stolen. I think that you're a jackass for saying that because I don't hear of may Roll Royce Phantoms getting stolen because there are hip hop artists flaunting them. You jackasses have attatched negative stigmas to everything associated with hip hop because you don't understand it and you come here and publically show how ignorant you are. I as an avid hip hop listener and a car enthusiast don't want to come over to your house and steal your shit just because it's on that list. I was going to say something about the article but that just got me heated dude. You need to check your shit before you post it.

— mocaonsite (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 11:19:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Everything huu76 / will said, I 1000% agree on.

— Homer008 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 11:22:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Heellooo!

He said 'emotional appeal'.

He is correct, mind you, for all the gadgets in the world can't hide the fact the new LS has no emotion in in the way it looks, drives, feels etc.

Some girls can cook and clean, but they are dead boring.

The LS is a competent maid.

— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 11:34:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

1995 e34, In my opinion the s or 7's look does'nt realy pop until you at least put rims on them. A lot of german car fans will be shocked when something nice like this pulls up next to them at the stoplight. To all the audi fans. They had no market share until the A4 of the late 90's showed up. What is the A8 most known for as published in just about all the reviews I have read? Starring in the movie Ronin. To this date and living in socal I can count the amount of last gen A8's that I have seen on two hands, so tell me when did lexus fall behind Audi in the upper luxury segment? Audi almost fell off the map in the 80's after those accelerators got stuck leading to a few accidents with people crashing into thier house while trying to park into the garage. I do give them much credit for a great comeback and now making good cars.

— Jthree (View Profile)

Posted on 8/30/2006 11:53:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

i don't think bmw wants to be known as most luxurious. luxury is a major part of bmw, but they are known for a balance between luxury and sport that nobody has come close to. they are balanced, well rounded ultimate driving machines

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:11:52 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

jthree, i think the factory sport rims on either bmw or mercedes are easily the best in the industry.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:15:26 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

BMW530i-
"What does Lexus have? NOTHING."
Well, they have the higher sales.

— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:28:45 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

This article is right on the mark. Wow i acutaly like an article from LA times ? The end of the world is near.

— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 4:51:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

You can tell this guy is a nut job who the H*&L thinks Cadillac is Prestigous

— Lexlover (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 7:42:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Guys,
Lets try to be sensible here. Its one guy's opinion, and while he's on the mark on a lot of points for example, bland looks, lack of character, brand heritage etc. (he left out poor handling and typical lifeless steering), I think he's still a bit biased as there doesn't seem to be much he likes about the car. I would never buy one having driven them, but there's a certain segment of buyers that just love the lack of feedback existent in Lexuses and its certainly okay for them to buy a Lexus. While the Car "as a whole" is clearly not up to any of the German three, it does meet the needs of a certain segment of buyers and that's ok.
I haven't seen a car on that level slammed so badly, and I can only surmise that the writer read all the hype and expected more and when he got the test it out it was the same old feeling etc.. great expectations vs.. cold reality.......

— TheGenius (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 10:40:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

JT,

In some cases Lexus cost more than the competition. If not, I believe that if someone shopping in this class of cars could afford to spend $1,000 to $5,000 more for a BMW, Audi, or Mercedes if they really wanted it. Most North American customers don't see the need to pay extra because they deem Lexus to have just as much prestige as a German brand.
--------------------------------------------------

I know that a lot of Americans think this way:

Product + Expensive Price = Prestige

Unfortunately, when you go into the finer details, Lexus really is still a young company. Yes they've shaked up the luxury market in the US, but they've still got no real image, at least for me.

Image is something attained through innovation, history, success in motorsports etc. The Germans and British have this because they've been around for ages and have CONTRIBUTED A LOT TO THE AUTOMOTIVE WORLD.

What has Lexus done? They've never really innovated. They took existing technology and perfected or edited it. That's not really innovation.

Don't get me wrong. This isn't a rant against Lexus, but I am just trying to explain that I think that they cannot be compared to the Europeans on an image perspective. Material and equipment wise, yes, they're superior, but in terms of image, NO.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:07:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

innovation? Does MB or BMW have a CD player? yes..then its using Japanese technology.

CD was invented by Japanese and American counterpart. You say it uses a Flashcard memory i.e. apple ipod? That was invented by Toshiba, also Japanese invention. hmmm

— Homer008 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:36:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

huu76,

I sort of see your point, but BMW and MB have had a 50 year headstart. All it takes is 1 or 2 model screwups to erase that (MB/BMW are one 1 now).

Look at it this way. The Messerschitt Folke-Wulf fw109 and Mitsubishi A6M (Zero) were equally revered (maybe the Zero more because it was ship based). Anyway, both were built at around the same time. If you consider it's weight to power ratio, it was a precursor to weight management and power efficiency of today. The fs109 had 1560hp and the Zero 780hp, but the Zero could outclimb it. But anyway, this so-called prestige is based on time, and can be easily wrecked (look at GM/Ford).
------------------------------------------------

Ah, World War II aircraft, MY SPECIALTY.

Messerschmidt BF-109 (models E to K (1940-1945): The BF-109 was primarily a land-based aircraft, hence the poor range. It wasn't as maneuvrable as the Zero, but that's because the Germans learned in Spain that SPEED is more important than sheer maneuvrability, hence they modified the exisiting design for speed. That said, the BF-109 models E to G6 A/S were maneuvrable enough. The biggest advantage of the BF-109 was CLIMB RATE and SPEED. The 109G-6 for instance climbed about 3,400 ft per minute. That's pretty good. The BF-109 also enjoyed hard-hitting firepower, with the exception of the BF-109 F-2 and to an extent the F-4 model. BF-109's also could take some damage and still make it back home, provided they didn't run out of fuel.

Focke-Wulf FW-190 (models A4-A9 / Dora / Ta-152H (1942-1945): A very potent aircraft but with a poor climb rate, about 2600 ft / min I believe. The FW-190's strengths were a quick roll rate, speed, firepower and ruggedness. It was an excellent bomber killer and fighter bomber but performance suffered above 3,000 meters, where the BMW radial engine wasn't performing to its best.

My personal favorite FW-190's are the D models (Dora) and the high-altitude Ta-152H fighter, which hardly saw action in late 1945 due to lack of fuel and reliability problems.

Most of the German aces preferred the BF-109 though. When you look at the kill list of German fighter pilots, the majority of them got their kills in the "outdated" BF-109. Erich Hartmann, Gerhard Barkhorn, Heinz Baer, Adolph Galland, Werner Moelders, Hans Joachim Marseille: ring a bell?

Mitsubishi A6M1-A6M5 (1939-1945) Zero: Sorry, but the Zero DIDN'T outclimb the BF-109 at all. The Zero's rate of climb was 3,100 ft per minute. Close, but not close enough. The Zero also lost a lot of speed in climbs due to its weak engine (which had 950 or 970-horsepower, not the 780-hp you claim). Armament was good, equal to the early BF-109E, but the Japanese were slow to upgrade its guns during the war. Speed wasn't too good either. The Zero was a pretty "slow" plane by 1942 compared to what the Allies and other Japanese aircraft were offering. The Zero also had a slow rate of roll: vital in dogfighting.

On the bright side, the Zero was best

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:37:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

innovation? Does MB or BMW have a CD player? yes..then its using Japanese technology.

CD was invented by Japanese and American counterpart. You say it uses a Flashcard memory i.e. apple ipod? That was invented by Toshiba, also Japanese invention. hmmm
-----------------------------------

We're talking about AUTOMOTIVE INNOVATIONS, not the MUSIC INDUSTRY.

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:38:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

XeroKool,

May I remind you that the famous Luxury Institute's latest survey for the most prestigious luxury automobile brands in 2006 shows that Lexus is considered the #3 most prestigious brand after Porsche and Mercedes, from a statistical sample of more than 500 households with a minimum of $200,000 in gross annual income and minimum net worth of at least $750,000. BMW is #4, BTW.
http://www.luxuryinstitute.com/doclib/doclib_popup.cgi?file=88-8b6c254c900fe1b8be9685d0e0c78c6d.pdf
---------------------------------------------

Hey, this is America. ;)

I PERSONALLY still don't see Lexus as in the same league with the Europeans from an IMAGE point of view. Maybe it's because I am an informed car enthusiast who does value image. ;)

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:42:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

LexusIS350,

"What does Lexus have? NOTHING."
--------------------------------------------

Yes. Aside from Hybrids, good reliability and better equipped cars for less money, Lexus has NOTHING. No real image, no classic cars, no real innovation (except the hybrid stuff)...nothing. N O T H I N G. ;)


Well, they have the higher sales.
-------------------------------------

Thank your soccer moms in the RX for that. Last time I checked, the Europeans still led most sedan sales (someone correct me if I am wrong).

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:46:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Look,

I DON'T HATE LEXUS. I DON'T HATE ANY BRAND.

All I am saying is that Lexus isn't as prestigeous as they're hyped up to be, at least TO ME. Most consumers who participate in these "prestige surveys" probably were flattered with their Lexus and because of that, it is "right up there with the Europeans in terms of brand image". Eh...NO.

Lexus cannot achieve a prestigeous image as that of BMW or Mercedes, Jaguar, Aston Martin etc. in just 20 years. They can't. They can be competitive and create VALUE, but image-wise, not even close. Sorry. ;)

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:53:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

530i- Actually the CD was codeveloped by Sony and Philips using the already existiong mass storage disc created by Philips in the early 70's. Sony mearley worked with Philips and took an invention and adapted it to the music industry. Sounds real familiar.

— PlanoA4 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 12:57:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

japanese HAVE been pioneers in electronics industry, but in terms of high end autos, the koreans have improved more over the last 15 years by far.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 1:27:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Let's face it, the problem here is that a Lexus is what our parents would have driven if there were no Cadilacs when we were growing up. Comfy, sure. But come on, you cannot tell me that an automobile enthusiast or anyone who derives any pleasure from driving could find anything to enjoy in any Lexis product. I mean, it is a dressed up Toyota. No disrepect intended to Toyoyta but it succeeds in being an economical, competent and reliable mode of transportation for the masses. That business model is extraordinarily successful but it is diametrically opposed to that which makes an auto enthusiast's spine tingle. Jeez, doe Lexus even make manny trannys?

— macbjg1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 2:52:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

First off, automotive journalists like performance cars, which the Lexus is not. A car's driving experience should engage you; otherwise, ride the train. The Lexus is laden with technology you don't necessarily need.
The hip-hop desirability factor is about coolness, which the Lexus cannot boast of. In other words, the car has no soul.
The belief that Lexus is an ultra-luxury builder is misplaced. After all, the GS and IS are attempts by the car company to appeal to enthusiasts. BMW, Audi and Mercedes do a better job. And their cars are luxurious to boot.
The people who buy European cars already know about their general lack of reliability. Go figure.
It is not a given that Lexus will be the dominant luxury brand in the next decades. Don't forget that the Koreans are gaining fast.
This guy had the guts to go out on a limb. Another gushy, slobbering article about the virtues of a Lexus, and I will be ready to puke. This guy deserves a Pulitzer.

— Maxim (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 3:01:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

/agree

— vcowman (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 4:24:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Come on guys! 17 years is all it takes for you to get so upset on this blog, What about the coming 10 years. I will blame Lexus for causing world war 3. Wow! all the insecurity! I mean the German fans have heritage and innovation under their belts.

— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 5:11:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Relax guys! Lexus Also wants to be part of the cool guys.I am young and heritage means jack sh*t to me. Its a Toyota and a damn good one for that and matter.

— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 5:29:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

This guy is not crediable. Even if MB,BMW and AUDi are great cars, nobody can ignor that LEXUS car are among the world best cars.

— AUDBMLEXMRC (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 6:19:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

All this article does is prove that being a Pulitzer prize winning writer and being an arrogant ass are not mutually exclusive states of being.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 6:29:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

I can not agree more. Japanese cars lack soul. Who needs all these Xbox/gaming features on a car, especially the self parking feature. Can you imagine stopping behind these cars as it takes it's time self parking? Not going to fly in LA. As most car designers already know..Japanese permium care designers are afraid to make a bold statement on their flag ship cars. Hence, years and years of uninspiring, dull LS models.

— dbr9tifosi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 6:42:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

most enthusiasts i know highly value driving experience. and the german offer that as well as luxury. if the lexus matches or even exceeds the germans they still lack fun.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 6:49:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

The new Lexus is no doubt a fine automobile, but I agree with the first paragraph. All Toyota cars are simply lacking in soul. They are like high tech refrigerators. They get the job done with some style, but that's it. BMW, Benz and Audi all have some faults whether it be in reliability (most poor parts suppliers, not poor engineering), debatable style, etc. But the German brands excell where it really counts, a balance of handling, speed, luxury that the Japanese have yet to master. It is enough that Toyota and Nissan both seek to produce cars that are comparable to the German autos. Sure Lexus is a good "value", but what does that matter if one doesn't enjoy driving the car and being seen in it. Some people will always seek to purchase what they say they view as "the best" but at a lower price.
On aclosingnote: ever notice a Toyota Camry or Lexus ES from the rear? The exhaust pipe hangs down underneath the like the it's broken which it will be if you ever drive over a curb by accident.

— TybeeZ4 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 7:22:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Any survey that rates a Chevy as number 7 and Lexus below 50 has zero believabilty..
Also, it is too bad Mr. Neil is so clouded by hatred that his writing is affected (objectivity =0). I'll bet if the exact same LS had a badge on it by MB or BMW he would be praising it with the design the same.

— cbro980 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 7:34:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Any survey that rates a Chevy as number 7 and Lexus below 50 has zero believabilty..
Also, it is too bad Mr. Neil is so clouded by hatred that his writing is affected (objectivity =0). I'll bet if the exact same LS had a badge on it by MB or BMW he would be praising it with the design the same.

— cbro980 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 7:34:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

cbro930, I Think in marketing its called selective perception. But things change and never remain stagnant future generations wont care about heritage .

— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 7:56:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

cbro930, I Think in marketing its called selective perception. But things change and never remain stagnant future generations wont care about heritage .

— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 7:57:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

This is getting silly. People keep talking about matters of taste. No one car will please everyone. But you cannot deny Lexus competes in this market segment!

And for those that keep saying Lexus copied this, Lexus copied that, etc. Please remember that Mercedes changed the way they name their cars to match Lexus. Early 90's it was a 500S. Boom! Lexus comes out and is doing well. Mid 90's the 500S became...wait for it... the S500!

And Mercedes, BMW, and Audi are themselves missing an "intangible quality" of their own. It's called peace of mind. That only comes from being able to trust your vehicle to get you to where you want to go.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 9:14:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Wasn't Mercedes and BMW still using CDROMS for their navigations systems while Lexus was using DVDs?

Yep.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 9:26:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Mercedes must have liked the rear view cameras in use by Infiniti and Lexus a whole lot because they added into their models.

Oh yeah, the illuminated door scuff plates on the Lexus SC430 must have impressed too as Mercedes lifted that little design touch as well.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 9:37:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I agree with answer,
every car brand copies something from another car brand. It's called competition. You have to have something similar to another car to compete with it. Sure, Lexus has copied things from German brands, but no one can deny that German brands also copy Lexus.

— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 10:06:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

The auto reviewer obviously knows his stuff -- Maritz and GfK tell us that ppl by Lexus because they have enough money to buy 2 Camrys but only need 1 car. :) But seriously, ppl don't buy Lexus for prestige, they buy something that is "vanilla" -- it's like a Brooks Brothers suit compared with a Canali or Boss one. You buy the former because it's well made; you buy the latter because you're passionate about design...

— daveking (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 10:24:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Off topic but here's something for Germany and their beloved diesels to think about. Read the first paragraph. A storm's a brewin'
http://www.economist.com/agenda/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7854907

530i,
Interesting. I'm no expert so I'll take your word for it. Although the Germans didn't need it, it did have the advantage of carrier takeoff. One wonders if the 109 used up twice the fuel?

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 10:57:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Will: Remember that when the Japanese have an invention then it is nothing that great, but when the Germans have an invention it is the greatest thing ever.

Also, I really don't know, Why don't BMW and MB have in-dash cd changers - don't say it is to have perfect 50-50 weight distribution.

— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 11:03:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Will: Remember that when the Japanese have an invention then it is nothing that great, but when the Germans have an invention it is the greatest thing ever.

Also, I really don't know, Why don't BMW and MB have in-dash cd changers - don't say it is to have perfect 50-50 weight distribution.

— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 11:04:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

damn it came up twice

— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 11:05:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

That Avalon (?) in the picture is a hideous monstrosity.

— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/31/2006 11:45:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

BMW530,

"I know that a lot of Americans think this way:

Product + Expensive Price = Prestige"

Not exactly. The VW Phaeton was never considered prestigious. A fully optioned Toureg can cost as much as 60k isn't considered prestigious either. Basiacally no matter what kind of car for whatever price VW builds, VW will never be considered prestigious.

Prestige lies in the brand. Don't get me wrong History and heritage are important, but they are not the only factor in determining a brands prestige. I understand that you may never see Lexus as prestigious as Mercedes or BMW, but most North Americans do. The average consumer doesn't consider a brands heritage as a prime factor when choosing a car.

Lexus can never match up to the history of Mercedes and other Germanic brands. I brought up price because you stated it was a main advantage in purchasing a Lexus.

BTW I don't see the debate we're having as a rant against Lexus on your part. I find that you try to be unbiased on autospies (it can be hard sometimes I know), for the most part you are.

— 00JT (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2006 2:42:43 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I am seeing a lot of the new Lexus IS these days. More so than the new BMW 3 Series. I think the IS is really taking a large chunk of 3 Series sales. If you don't include the 3 Series coupe and convertible, I wonder how many 3 Series sedans BMW is actually selling vs the Lexus IS sedans.

— 00JT (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2006 2:48:10 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

interesting "style" of writing.

not quite damning with faint praise, as he does make note of all the fancy techware. but while listing them, he takes a sneering tone. sorta like he has his nose in the air while checking out the features of a vehicle superior to ones he's personally biased toward.

i once read a book written by an australian who was a POW of the japanese. his soldiering career was very brief, and actual "fightin" a matter of mere hours, before his unit surrendered.

thruout the book, he complained about how horrid the imperial army was. yet, there was also an undertone of grudging ADMIRATION.

go figure.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2006 6:36:19 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

IS may be taking some sales from 3-series, but not much. its just as expensive, and i bet that buyers that would buy the IS over the 3-series would just as well buy a c-class or g35 over the 3-series.

at their current price, the IS really has nothing on the 3-series. if they could price more competitively like infiniti was, maybe they could steal sales. i think g35 is much more worthy competition than IS when compared to 3-series.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2006 12:47:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

The following is an email I wrote to the author at LA Times.


Dan,

This email is in regards to your Passion takes a back seat article written about the Lexus LS460.

For Reference: Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs

5. Actualization
4. Status (esteem)
3. Love/belonging
2. Safety
1. Physiological (biological needs)


For humans, the most basic need is physiological which includes breathing fresh air, sleep, and food. For automobiles it is a frame, suspension, engine, and seating which every car has as a given.

The second most basic need for humans is safety, which includes safety from poor health. In the automobile world this would be reliability.

Prestige, Passion, Heritage, Luxury, Brand Image, all fall under the higher catergories.

The point I am trying to make is that if a car company cannot even satisfy your basic needs and build a car that will not suffer from poor heatlh problems, then nothing else matters.

— caffeinetrip (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2006 3:05:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

At this level of cars, MB is a clear winner. No BMW, AUDI or LEXUS can touch it.
LS looks just as dull as A8, and they look all look better than 7 series.

— dlin (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2006 4:56:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

At this level of cars, MB is a clear winner. No BMW, AUDI or LEXUS can touch it.
LS looks just as dull as A8, and they look all look better than 7 series.

— dlin (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2006 4:56:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

I agree with dlin.
Yes, Toyota/Lexus overall produces a dependable and long lasting vehicle, but when it comes to luxury especially in the aspect of interior design they are second rate. Just sit in a new S-Class or A8L versus a new LS; theres no comparison.

— Bavarias_Finest (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2006 6:42:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Kart,
WEll, those extra 5 CD's in the front would just throw the balance and handling right off. So they offer single CD players because it's performance enhancing, not because they know they can rip their customers off.

Comparable Lexus/BMW's are pretty much equal in price, and Lexus is actually on top in some cases. Don't force me to repost my pricing list again.

Hmmm, wonder if we can hit 200 passionless posts about a passionless car froma passionless company by tomorrow?

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/1/2006 10:07:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

The journalist refers to the LS 460's infrared camera to measure backseat passengers' body temperature by saying, "...and, one guesses, to scan for signs of incipient menopause."

Haha...He sounds like an old fart. Are we sure that HE'S not the one having a menopausal moment? There'e needs to be a younger and fresher generation of automotive journalists present in the media. Most of these guys are in their 50's and 60's and can barely get in and out of a Miata without assistance from a colleague.

— edub360 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2006 3:15:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

diablo69, blue ridge mountains are the best driver's roads i've ever seen. it's like they were designed for bmw

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2006 3:18:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

diablo69, well said. how many cups of coffe did you have before typing all that? i like lexus, but when the knockoff costs as much as the real thing, somethings wrong.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2006 3:28:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

this guy doesn't know anything about cars.To talk about
Audi/vw,Cadillac/yukon,Avalanch in the same sentence with BMW,MB and Lexus that show the guy is either slowwwwww or stupidddddd or both.I'm a Honda/Acura fan
but i know that Lexus outclass Acura.

— wanga (View Profile)

Posted on 9/2/2006 7:10:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

diablo,
I see, so unless BMW offers it, it's irrelevant to the driving experience. Well, when I drive in luxury, I expect the best leather seats, the quietest cabin, the best stereo sound system, the most safety features etc. Then again, my standards are a little higher than BMW's. So tell me then, why does BMW claim anything to do with luxury if they (meaning the fans) don't care about all these amenities? Why not just bolt a chair on an engine, sort of like Chrysler's Tomahawk. BMW should just license their emblem out to anyone who wants it on a toaster, a hairdryer or television.

lol,
BMW always likes to emphasize their dominant sales numbers in N.America. Not so eager now that the IS is catching up, and combined with the ES, have already left BMW in the slow lane. Again, unless it's BMW, it's irrelevant.

Well, the way things are going, BMW is going to be irrelevant and everyone will say "BMWho?"

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/3/2006 12:44:50 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Diablo,

"So, you argue that because Lexus is number one selling then it must have prestige. What an illogical conclusion. Get a clue."

It must have some prestige, yes. Lexus couldn't have obtained the title of #1 selling luxury maker in North America if they had no prestige.

"Is that so? You must have had to make a ton of phone calls with all these Lexus customers to come to this conclusion! Wow! I’m impressed!"

I didn't have to make phone calls. The numbers speak for themselves! Someone shopping in this class of cars could afford to spend $1,000-5000 if they really wanted a Mercedes or BMW that much more. They don't because they know Lexus is just as prestigeous.

For example, the new Hyundai Sonata is a really good car. However, I like the new Toyota Camry a lot more. If I was shopping for these cars I'd have no problem shelling out about 3k more for the Camry.

— 00JT (View Profile)

Posted on 9/6/2006 3:18:30 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

in a later thread: "75% of luxury car buyers DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER bmw."

so as bmw gets its ass kicked, saleswise, all the true blue (and white) believers can come up with, is "but it has no heritage!" or "well, it may be a luxury car, but beemers are SPORT luxury cars."

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 9/21/2006 6:25:21 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1