76 Votes

Lexus Announces Pricing for 2008 Lexus LS 600h L Luxury Hybrid Sedan

5nizza submitted on 4/7/2007 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 8:43:47 AM

273 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: autobeat.blogspot.com

Tag Link: Lexus

Lexus announced the manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) for the all-new 2008 Lexus LS 600h L luxury hybrid sedan.

The Lexus LS 600h L will be the ultimate Lexus statement, providing the highest level of luxury, technology, performance, safety and efficiency.

With an extensive list of standard luxury equipment and technological features, including the world's first full hybrid V8 powertrain, the 2008 Lexus LS 600h L will carry a base MSRP of $104,000 when it reaches Lexus dealers in June.

The full-time all-wheel-drive 2008 Lexus LS 600h L will be the world's first vehicle powered by a full hybrid V8 powertrain and will be mated to a newly developed dual-stage electronically controlled, continuously variable transmission. It will deliver power and performance on par with modern 12-cylinder engines, producing more than 430 horsepower while still delivering fuel efficiency equal to or better than the combined fuel-economy ratings of V6 all-wheel-drive mid-sized luxury sedans. The 2008 Lexus LS 600h L will also carry a Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (SULEV) rating, emitting nearly 70 percent fewer emissions than the "cleanest" of its competitors.

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Lexus Announces Pricing for 2008 Lexus LS 600h L Luxury Hybrid Sedan

About the Author

— 5nizza (View Profile)

User Comments

Worth every nickel!
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 9:51:04 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

I would buy an S600 before buying this car just on styling alone.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 11:30:00 AM | | Votes: 0

Why can't someone like the way this LS looks over the S-Class? Oh wait, I think 1800 people already do.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:19:30 PM | | Votes: -1

Will, you must bee talking about the Hollywood Global Warming crowd.

Like Global Warming advocate John Travolta will buy one to go along with his 5 gas guzzling jets that produce emmissions that kill the Ozone according to Al Bore.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:16:36 PM | | Votes: -7

Al Gore is a bore, but don't pin Lexus as only for the liberal celebrity crowd. I'm no liberal or a celebrity and I drive one.

And why can't a celebrity drive a hybrid? Just because they ride around in private jets that means that they should be criticized when they want to drive a hybrid? Should we demand that they just continue to drive Hummers?
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:23:08 PM | | Votes: 4

Because Will,

People like Bore and Travolta drive a hybrid thinking they're saving the planet and then they jump into their vintage gas guzzling Boeing 707 jet and fly 30,000 hours per year polluting the atmosphere.

BTW, Travolta's 707 puts more crap in the air as much as 1000 Hummers, but he says we have to drive hybrids to stop Global Warming.

Hybrids are hype!
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 4:06:34 PM | | Votes: -1

2008 Lexus LS 600h L will carry a base MSRP of $104,000!

HAH! LEXUS LS 600H L = THE NEW VW PHAETON

A Lexus at that price range? Are they serious!? CRASH AND BURRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
— rom64 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 11:57:07 PM | | Votes: 1

Same thing was said in 1989. Critics said nobody in their right mind would pay $35,000 for a Toyota.
— GS450h (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 11:56:04 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

It may be, but that is A Lot of money for a Lexus.
— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 10:19:09 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

True.
— Carboy (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 10:40:31 AM | | Votes: 3

Considering alot of people are leaving their 7-Series's and S-Classes, that's a pretty stupid comment Mr. Omar, but we didn't expect too much more from you.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:42:19 PM | | Votes: 7

Well, since your small couldn't infer it from the context of the article, I meant many people are leaving those cars for Lexus LSs.

Case in point:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WDuzhUJKmeg

And I'm sorry you seem to believe that I believe that I am somehow "smarter" than you. Just keep in mind that YOU are the one who keeps bringing that up.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:15:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

I don't know how you deduct that link coming from Youtube as pulling it out of my ass, but then again, you're the immature one.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:24:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Actually you should wait for the bus .. then for very little change you can get a ride in SLEV vehicle.
— izfuney (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:57:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

It doesnt take little rocket science to realize that more lexus vehicles are sold than BMW or Mercedes because they cost less!

Please, sales figures are one thing, but boldly using them as justification for saying that people are leaving they're S-classes and 7-series for an LS is nonsense. These are sales figures in the U.S. ONLY!

Try realizing that Lexus is only selling well in the U.S. So don't hold your breath Lexus Fans, Lexus will never outsell its competitors in worldwide sales whenever it reaches the same amount of markets as its competitors.
— rom64 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 11:51:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

the figures he gave are not even on the link he referenced.
— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 12:07:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Toooo expensive. Way to much for a Lexus.
— rg12345 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 3:42:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Pah!! Do you really think that people leave S-class and 7series just for the cheaper price??? Com'on!! I mean you have million dollars to spend but you choose to save some couple of thousand bucks by buying Lexus!!

It doesn't make any sense at all. You should go back to your accounting class and ask your lecturer how to save money!!
— underthegravity (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 9:45:14 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Everytime I go to me Lexus dealer I see some guy trading in their unreliable 7-Series for a Lexus.
— GS450h (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 11:59:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Everytime I go to my Lexus dealer I see some guy trading in their unreliable 7-Series for a Lexus.
— GS450h (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 12:00:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

yes, people definitely buy lexus becauses it's a good value.
most people who buy these cars aren't millionaires. they stretch to buy/lease these cars.

so a $30K price difference is a HUGE deal.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 1:13:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Even though I am not a Lexus fan, they starting to make headway in Europe. Japan is still receiving a cool reception.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/12/2007 8:30:08 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

At that price and considering total units to be sold, the idea of hybrid seems absurd... However, from a marketing standpoint, being the only manufacturer to offer hybrid on such a beautiful beast they will certainly capitalize on the current hype and probably sell quite a few who want the image, publicity or just having the newest toy on the block..again Lexus marketing at their finest..good job
— markusck (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 10:53:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

Wrong.
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 3:05:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I've seen the new Lexus LS600 TV commercial a few times and I find it amusing how they puff that this car is as fast as a NHRA Top Fuel dragster.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 11:26:22 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Beautiful!

This car will most likely rule in all but the magic feel, German-factor and "It's not a Lexus" categories.

V6 epa, V12 power, unique styling, still costly enough to brag about if you really need to.

marksuck,
It'll do more for the env't than the BMW7 hydrogen or any stupid S-diesel.

SULEV, pretty much like every other Lexus product. Keeping true to the "more from less" philosophy.

No worrying about filters to hide the extra pollution you're making because you don't need to hide what never gets created.

I'm sure Audi will counter with a 16 cylinder diesel or something worse.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 11:31:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

can someone explain to me how and when all the wonderful hybrid batteries will be recycled, or will they simply be put in a pit and postpone a bigger problem 20 yrs from now? "saving" (depends on the definition of saving as I see people driving their hybrids on hyways above 70mph) some fuel now to create a bigger environmental problem later does not sound smart - to this day, neither toyota nor honda have an answer to how to recycle or dispose of these battery packs - so, how is environmentally friendly?
— teebenzo (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 4:57:58 PM | | Votes: 1

The FACT that this car is already sold out says it all. I can't even get on a reserve list yet...
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 12:06:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

Despite all the arguments and baiting that have become this blog's staple, the one thing everybody could agree on- lexus fans openly, Lexus baiters not so openly, it takes a lot for a newcomer to shake the status quo.
Status quo here being the near-imperial triumverate of MB, BMW and Audi. THe really imperial ones like Jaguar, Bentley, Rolls are bit players no more, with cachet all out of proportion with their current level of engineering.
So when people rail against Lexus' amazing rise into acceptance as a bona-fide luxury maker, you can accept it as proof of their unconscious acceptance of this fact, even if their rants suggest otherwise.
One more thing about Lexus. No other company has shaken up MB, BMW and Audi the way Lexus has, and that's one truth Lexus baiters can't deny. Openly, or unopenly.
— Lyall (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 12:19:25 PM | | Votes: 11

I don't just own an RX you fool. Instead of being bitter about not being able to afford any of these cars yourself and attacking everyone else who can, get offline and get a job.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:40:47 PM | | Votes: 7

And yet again, that was an even sorrier attempt to deflect your economic status onto mine.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 3:16:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

Anyone who makes ridiculous statements such as yours obviously cannot afford any of these cars. Anyone hellbent on attacking everyone as not being able to afford any of these cars obviously cannot afford these cars.

You don't have to state your economic status, it is implied from several other factors and attributes that you exhibit during your imcomprehensible posts.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 3:31:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

Will, for you, we can make room.
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 3:08:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

"Your the guy who cannot spell right?. Stop being miss Cleo."

Um- your, in this case, is spelled "you're"
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 3:13:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

typo in the 'bit players' line- delete the 'no more' part
— Lyall (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 12:21:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

This blog would be a lot less interesting without everybody going for everybody's throats. In fact, I find myself reading the comments a lot more than I actually do reading the articles that invite said comments.
Keep the gloves on people!
— Lyall (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 12:23:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Although I commend the LS's success, don't you find it a bit surprising that the $25K-more-expensive S-Class maintains such a small gap between the two?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 12:53:56 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

not apples to apples.
new cars always see a sales spike in the first few months.
compare first 3 months of S-class to first 3 months of LS and you'll find they're nearly identical. EXCEPT that the average price of the S was many thousands higher.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 1:15:34 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

actually formula1- I find you hilarious. A bit whacked out but funny, nevertheless. Still- BMW must dream of having die-hard defenders like you.
Speaking of BMW's though, 5 years back, my 2000 5series swallowed water thru its low-mounted air-intake 8 months after purchase, on a raingy day on California's hwy 101.. The engine blew, but even worse was the dealership service experience thereafter. The car itself was great to drive during its shortlived 14 month life but I have never bought one since- and probably won't ever.
— Lyall (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 12:55:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

Hey I have a 3 series and it has been to the shop 8 times in 1 and a half years. I will probably not buy another one cause I never get to be in it often and when I do it breaks. The only good thing is the dealership at least gives me a 3 series to drive while mine is being worked on!
— atomicbri (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:51:58 PM | | Votes: 10

Did we really expect you fanboys NOT to respond to his personal experience of a BMW having subpar reliability? You can attack him and call him an idiot as much as your sad little souls desire, it still doesn't change what he experienced.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:53:00 PM | | Votes: 8

Oh, so two of the biggest German lapdogs are telling me that none of their German cars have had any problems and we're just supposed to take your word for it? Something's definitely wrong here. It became apparent when both of you decided to personally attack a person you don't even know for simply stating he had a BMW experience a problem. Sensitive are we? For what reason(s)?
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:33:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10

Racism, sexism and just plain ignorance. All your trademarks Mr. Omar.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:42:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

What stupid arguments seem to be going on here... why is anyone responding to formula1? He's just an annoying fanboy.

This car looks extravagant (in a good way), and I did expect a price along these lines, but I just can't see myself spending over $100,000 on a car, this year OR next year. That's where I draw the line.

I'm sure it's worth every penny for those who own it, though. AWD, 440hp, 25mpg. Very nice.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:06:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

I'd believe FanBoy before I'd believe you. Unlike you, he seems to have actually driven all the cars he speaks of. You don't seem to have even been within a foot of reach of any Toyota or Lexus.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:21:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

No, but you could at least pretend not to be a total Euro fanboy idiot and stop insulting everything from Lexus.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:31:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

Let's see, LS600hL vs. 760Li $104k vs. $122K

LS600hL advantages: AWD, faster, more technique advanced, more luxurious...
and more, significant better MPG and emissions!

760Li advantage: bigger trunk ^0^

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:36:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

sure it's a nice car.
but how do we know it's faster? numbers please.
and how do we know it's more luxurious?
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:39:16 PM | | Votes: -7

anthony/will/et al:
these are all these the baseless statements that i can't help but question. if there weren't so many nuts like this in here maybe we could actually have a proper discussion.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:40:55 PM | | Votes: -7

And it's people like "formula1" and "mromar1" holding your arguments back.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:46:11 PM | | Votes: 8

It would if I took you seriously. Luckily due to your dumbass statements, I will never take you seriously.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:54:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10

oh, forgot to mention Gas Guzzler Tax for 760Li.

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 3:32:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9

SupraNeverBack, the Lexus is not more luxurious than the BMW 7 Series.

The Lexus is more plastic if anything and you know it!
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 4:08:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

I agree with both of you.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 12:56:13 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

who cares
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 2:58:30 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

supra:

still waiting on those actually NUMBERS to show that it's faster.
and your PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the car to explain why it's more luxurious.
and a DETAILED SPEC SHEET that explains why it's more technologically advanced.

facts are a good thing.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 1:18:38 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

personally, i think they should have a made the LS600 a V12 or used the V10 concept out of the LF-A in order to really compete with other flagships. maybe that's coming.

this car could provoke serious backlash from the the enviromental communitiy as there's nothing environmentally friendly about a a 5,000 pound "hybrid" that gets middle of the road mileage.

interesting how careful they are to state that it gets the "combined fuel-economy ratings of V6 all-wheel-drive mid-sized luxury sedans."
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:37:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

You will see v12 hybrid before v12 alone from Lexus.
— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 3:27:26 PM | | Votes: 6

Formula 1: If you don't mind me asking how old are you?
— cdoke (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:48:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10

Interesting.

I am 23.

I've never really liked people my own age. The person I am dating is 41.
— cdoke (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:12:01 PM | | Votes: 12

You do realize that your behavior is a bit unbecoming of someone your age?

Mwa ha ha ha ha ha

Well, I'm one of the guys in the relationship...
— cdoke (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:37:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

Do you believe I am actually serious?
— cdoke (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:49:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

People still are not recognizing the idea behind Lexus hybrids. The point is NOT to achieve the ultimate fuel economy, the idea is to have the performance expected in the luxury segment without the dramatic decrease in fuel consumption. Compare the R400h to the ML350. Compare the GS450h to the E550. Compare the LS600h to the S600. The Lexus hybrids have very comparable 0-60 times, hp ratings etc., but vastly higher fuel economy and vastly lower emissions.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:50:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

will:
i'm not sure that consumers are asking for the idea behind lexus hybrids.

why make the GS450h faster than its gasoline counterpart the GS430? (and still significantly slowerr that the E550) they're trying to be all things to all people. that doesn't work and the lackluster sales of the GS450h show that. they should have made the hybrid version a bit slower but provided rockin' fuel economy.

it's not performance that lexus buyers aren't willing to forgo for the fuel economy of a hybrid, it's luxury.

lexus would see far more success if they dropped the performance hybrid bit and just went all out for luxury hybrids.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:56:41 PM | | Votes: -5

besides, isn't the F-line supposed to be about performance? why do they need two 'performance lines.' everyone else makes do with one.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 1:58:35 PM | | Votes: -4

Because Lexus believes that they need to go down some "performance" road. The hybrids represent the top-of-the-line "performance" models of each of the Lexus ranges. Mercedes has the S550 and then the S600. Lexus has the LS460 and then the LS600h. Lexus would not do "just hybrids" because of the stigma "just hybrids" have for being "slow economy cars." The point of a Lexus hybrid is to break that stereotype. A hybrid that delivers a higher level of performance on par with the best of its gasoline competition.

If Lexus really wanted to provide "just hybrids" then we'd be seeing cars like a GS300h. Can you imagine the amount of criticism Lexus would get if they offered one of their cars with similar performance to the Prius? The consumer is smarter than this. The level of luxury that Lexus provides should not be associated with the level of performance the Prius gives, as great as that car is, no matter what the expense of fuel economy.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:06:17 PM | | Votes: 5

ok, but performance isn't the primary reason people buy lexus. better to be amazing at one or two things than just comparable on lots. i think a GS300h would sell incredibly well.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:41:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -8

True, true.
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 3:23:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

LMAO! This has been truely a fun read with all of you bi#c*ing back and forth at each other! Hilarious! Lexus LS600h... Wouldn't Lexus be better off to offer a V8 Hybrid, a V12 doesn't seem to friendly or environmentally P.C. Just an observation. The LS is actually a forgetable ride. Not very fun when I drove one. The S-Class was more alert, not sure why but it felt better to drive. The LS boat-like....like a Cadillac. But it was very nice inside. I am a BMW owner and I hate the 7 series....iDrive SUCKS!!! My brother's mother-in-law got one for CHristmas. Thank god they kept the 5 series because she couldn't even work the heater! You had to go thru menus to menus and then she was lost in them. iDrive is too complicated for most people and to be a driving machine, leave off all that non-driver crap please! Maybe the next gen 7 will sort it all out.
— atomicbri (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:00:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

It HAS a V8 hybrid. Look at the article again.

Lexus says it's a V8 hybrid with "the power of a V12."
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 11:24:54 AM | | Votes: 5

AHHH I see now , well good then! Maybe I do like this hybrid.
— atomicbri (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 12:17:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

I'm sorry, but those headlights make the car look like a multi-eyed insect.

lol
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:13:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -8

the car only has 430 horsepower its in the commercial and if i wud spend that amount of money i wud just get a bluetec mercedes or wait for the bluetec sclass
— jt716 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 2:41:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

Why would you be de-boosted for stating what you would buy for this amount of money? It's just what you prefer. Ridiculous.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 11:26:45 AM | | Votes: -1

438.
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 3:24:55 PM | | Votes: 4

FYI - Any comment about Lexus or Toyota gets about 70 replies. Anything about Audi / MB is in the doldrums comparitively.
— izfuney (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 3:01:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

That is not the reason at all "formula1." We don't need you to give anybody any chance. Toyota/Lexus has already cemented their success. The Toyota/Lexus threads are generally filled with bitter German trolls who want to make it appear as if the world doesn't like Toyota/Lexus as much as they do their favorite brands. We all know that's not true though, which is what makes your comments so hilarious!

Nice attempt at a rational explanation though...
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 3:24:53 PM | | Votes: 5

S Class crowd is very loyal. My best friends dad buys a new one every two years. He would never drive or be driven in anything else. The LS is going to create new customers, not take any of them.
— no1listensanyway (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 3:06:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

Anyway this place is truly humming with vitriol, so i shall leave you with a good link for reference

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article1264971.ece

The above of course is Jeremy Clarkson on the BMW 335 coupe.

Here is my fav bit.
"You need to think of it as a painting by the world’s greatest artist. Yes, the brush strokes are magnificent. Yes, the texture is superb. Yes, the perspective is world class and the detailing is better than you’d get from Leonardo.

But what he’s actually painted in this case is big dog turd."

— izfuney (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 3:08:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

The members of this site are horrible! "mromar1," "formula1," and "EL34" what are your motives behind posting such trash? You certainly are not making yourselves or the brands you are trying to hype up anymore appealing!

These "Lexus vs. the World" debates are totally stupid!!!
— AudiLexus (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 4:07:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9

You're right. Lexus vs. the World arguments is stupid. Why? Lexus is not the world. But it sure makes a great Hybrid that is one thing I'm sure of. I admit I'm not a total fan of Lexus and sometimes due to it's fans claiming this and that it drives me away from wanting to own one but I respect the company a lot.

Good technology and a very well priced vehicle for the consumer in this segment. It's still a niche market and it's captured all the green people in the North American market. Good job Lexus. See I'm giving Lexus props guys ! But you know where my heart is. Just showing some respect : )
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 4:22:19 PM | | Votes: 1

That whole "the fanboys drive me away" argument is totally baseless as well. There are plenty of German fanboys who are doing their part to turn many away from the great products they make.

"formula1," roll over and die already.
— AudiLexus (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 4:31:07 PM | | Votes: 7

We know. There are annoying fanboys on BOTH sides that all the "normal" people hate.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 11:29:04 AM | | Votes: 0

Hopefully the trunk volume will be greater than 12 cubic. That is the only thing German fanboys could attack. ^0^

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 4:19:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

The LS 600H L is very nice. I love the front end headlights as it looks much better than the normal petrol model. For the money it is very good money for value. It is much cheaper than the S class alternative. It's more closely priced to the Audi A8 I believe and both are understated luxury. When it comes down to the A8 and this LS it comes down to what type of car you want a German or a Japanese, and then you think what kind of engine you want a Hybrid or a Petrol. Both are great alternatives for the S and the 7 but I would still choose an S-Class because I grew up with S-Classes so don't hate me for it folks you can't blame me.

Anyways, the LS looks beautiful and it should be sold out. It's going to be very rare and a stunning car on the road.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 4:19:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

there is one phrase that comes up a lot when discussing hybrids. "a hybrid still uses gas. your not saving the enviroment, you're just killing it slower.." something like that. its nice the other manufacturers are devoting time to diesels, which can use bio-diesel, and hydrogen. i applaud lexus and the ls600h because they are applying the latest technology to their flagship. if they have success (too early to tell even though its sold out it does not mean it can be a flop), i hope lexus can take the experience and explore other alternative fuels. i would hate to see a lexus ls600,000,000h which has an elctric-power plant powered by a single piston gas engine.
— WeAreMad (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 4:57:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I'll sign up for this souless sofa on wheels when I'm 90, drinking my dinner thru a straw. I hope the geriatric crowd thinks they look cool driving this Japanese barge.
— spadog55 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 4:58:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

Saw the TV ad today, it will have 438 hp.
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 5:39:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

a 300M? ok formula1, you really know less about cars. The 300M is out of production and it never came with a "hemi". The 300C how does but why are you comparing a entry level luxury car which burns fuel faster than the LS600? I doubt anyone had in mind to drive the LS600 FAST like a S63 if they decided "I want to spend less fuel but have a top notch luxury car".
— Alec (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 10:59:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

Hey formulaStupid, I know you're well educated - well educated in a sense that you spent 8 years in Grade 1.
— flozel1 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 7:23:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

How come the commercial that was posted here few days ago said it produces 480hps?
— Designer1 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 8:58:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Some questions to the Lexus haters here...

All this time, your reasons for people buying a Lexus is that it is a cheaper alternative to your substandard, not-really-prestigous-except-in-your-vivid-imagination MB/BMW (anyone who thinks these vehicles are in the same class as an Aston or Bentley is delusional). IOW, people buy Lexus because of it's value. Nothing really wrong with that. It's not your fault your beliefs are a little outdated.

But what we can all agree on is that 100g's is a lot of dough, correct?

And anyone who can afford to spend >100g's on a vehicle is probably rolling in it and can afford any vehicle he/she desires, correct? (Yes, including your top-of-the-line BMW/MB)

So what would all you haters say if Lexus sell every single LS600h model they produce?

What would be your argument then? Think about it. If anything, you'd have something to post when we hear the inevitable news that Lexus sold-out all these vehicles.
— flozel1 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 9:38:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

This Lexus LS600hl is just absolutely stunning. If I was going to buy one of this baby, it will be the same color as the photo above.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 9:52:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

IF..
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 8:18:42 PM | | Votes: 0

why is it so stunning? it looks just like the regular LS.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 1:20:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Formula,
Hell yes I'd love to own this car. I'm not stupid enough to sell one of my houses to buy it though.

Momar,
1994 or 2004, my Jeep still costs more that most poser BMWs, MB and Audis. That fact must rile you big time.

Jaguar not a luxury marquee? Excuse me, Jaguar can sell purely on name and nothing else. They don't need reliablity, performance, a redesign, or even the latest gimmick like renegerative brakes for the car battery. Now that's prestige and heritage.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 9:58:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

that is way to much for a lexus, and i really dont get the point of this car as an alternative to a v12, people buy v12's not because of the power but because of the v12, you could get v12 power out of a v6, a v8, or v10. how many people drive a car in this class enough for gas mileage to matter, especially a v12, or even any sedan over 100,000. id rather have a 760i, s600 or quattroporte over this
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 10:58:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

bmwdrvr,

The LS600 is a V8. It says it has the power of a V12 with a fuel economy of a V6. The point of this car is to save a little more money on gas. No one ever said this car was made to have thrilling handling of a BMW or the power of a Mercedes S63 AMG. This car is toward pure luxury with benefits of V12 power from a V8 with lower fuel consumption.

For those who think the German auto makers are in trouble, I have no doubt that in European markets that people would go with Mercs BMWS and Audi's simply cause theyve been with it longer than Lexus has. In the USA how ever is different. Lexus was marketed there before any other country, this puts the German 3 into a problem since Lexus outsells the competition every year.
— Alec (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 11:16:34 PM | | Votes: 5

again who drives a v12 powered car enough to care about gas, this car is pointless its away for toyota to charge as much as bmw and mercedes without producing a new engine, there is no way an electric motor cause this much more than the regular model, its the same technology used in a lowly prius, and people who are really considering buying a pretigous luxury sedan with a v12, or even a quattroporte, or bentley continental gt, are going to switch to this thing so that it will save them on gas, yeah right...people buy those cars not to save gas, because in most cases they have v8 models that are just as fast and powerful as the v12 model, if not more so, again this car is pointless and at over a 100,000 for a toyota way overpriced, it looks like an overchromed avalon, it doesnt even have the presence of the a8, 7, or s class......
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 9:47:54 AM | | Votes: -4

the fuel economy of a really thirsty V6.
notice that they say it has the COMBINED fuel economy of a mid-size, all-wheel drive, luxury sedan. there are only a few cars in that category. so it's not the fuel economy of a typical V6.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 1:24:48 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

You Lexus haters should start being more careful.

Seems every Lexus article that pops up keeps reaching well over 100 posts. If this continues, you guys are going to use up all the stupid arguments in the world pretty quickly.

Maybe you guys just need to develop a hybrid form of writing nonsense. Then you'll be able to conserve some of those logic-free reasons for Lexus being inferior for future articles on the brand.

Just a suggestion.
— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 4/7/2007 11:03:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

You're doing a pretty fine job of that already.
— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 1:47:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I laughed...
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 3:32:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

these threads go on forever because lexus have to remind everyone 47 times that lexus is so reliable.

and then so many of you make ridiculous claims without facts about cars that aren't on the market (ex. LS600 is going to perform as well as S600, IS-F is going to run M3 off the road, a supra is as good as an M5, etc).

saying baseless things generates much talk.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 12:22:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Wow....this was the reason I left this site....to all of the "originals" (Phantom330, Rupert, Will, Bill, S4. Mdalle, huu76, JUGNU, and others, ) I feel sorry for you. To all of the newbie fools: (formula1, mromar, enthusiastx11, and the fanboys) you have ruined what used to be (about a year ago and previous) a good site. You guys are pathetic.
— mstangpny07 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 1:05:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

A standing ovation is given.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 11:34:19 AM | | Votes: 3

True that, The Lexus Ladies ruined it.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 7:22:27 PM | | Votes: -4

beside an A8, i would love to trade in my 7 series for this anyday, i tilt my hat off to Lexus for this bad boy,
dont get it twisted, alot of people will buy this car, do your research, LS600h is in the same class as a MB,Audi n BMW v12s, so its price is right!!! SMH on some off the s&!t people say "lexus at this price"
— Denali (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 1:25:13 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

It's actually more affordable than it's competition.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 11:25:52 AM | | Votes: 2

Well I for one wouldn't be able to wrap my mind around paying this much money for a car that still echoes some of it's Toyota roots.

Kill me all you want for this comment but let's face it, all Lexus echo their econo-car Toyota roots to some degree, from the feel of the dashboard controls to the outside sheet metal.

Just like if you sat in an Audi & then jumped into a VW, you'd have some idea that these two companies just might be affiliated in some way. However while Audi & VW stay affiliates, Lexus & Toyota are a tight nipped family unit.
— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 5:17:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Wow.Stunning color. Is it available on LS460?

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 7:30:34 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

of course.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 1:25:50 AM | | Votes: 1

There is no restyled SC in 2008- sorry to break the news to you.
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 3:34:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Munichrob:

"Well I for one wouldn't be able to wrap my mind around paying this much money for a car that still echoes some of it's Toyota roots."

if ANYONE tries to throw aspersions on a car because of it's antecedents, a bimmer fanboi ought to be THE LAST.

anyone remember the BMW BUBBLECAR of the mid-'50s? what a joke! such an embarassment, bmw wishes people forget it ever came out of a bmw plant!

for those who DON'T remember: it had TWO tread widths, with the rear wheels barely apart from each other. it had just ONE door. the engine had just ONE cylinder.

the japanese Kei cars (660cc maximum) were LUXURY CARS compared to that Bimmer!

toyota never made cars with less than FOUR cylinders. lexus never made cars with less than SIX cylinders.* TOYOTAs can be prouder of their past than bmw. LEXUS is in a totally different class altogther!

it's heritage is FAR shorter, true. but FAR PROUDER! FAR prouder! and this is even before considering RElIABILITY.

how can ANY car claim to be a luxury car, if it LACKS the basic GIVEN of all truly MODERN cars, including econoboxes: reliability. it is UNTHINKABLE for a car claiming luxury status to not have ABSOLUTE reliability.

* exception being IS200, offered ONLY in euro market for cheap europeans who aspire to luxury cars.
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 10:04:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

Well said, cawimmer.
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 3:44:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

the VEHEMENCE of the eurofanboys is in DIRECT PROPORTION to the latent FEARS and INFERIORITY COMPLEX they feel toward such A FORMIDABLE competitor to the fast sinking stars of their PREVIOUSLY lustrous objects of adoration.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 10:10:53 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

uh boy.
— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 3:38:22 PM | | Votes: 2

apex alex:
or it could be a reaction to rapid fanboys who talk out of their asses. hmm....
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 11:04:43 AM | | Votes: -1

You know what would be wonderful? If this site could shed its layer of endlessly annoying "fanboys" and heated arguments, and it was left for the true car fans to talk.

If we could all discuss cars... in the manner of real car enthusiasts. I would love it if everyone on the site gave each new (luxury) car a chance, at least. No stupid brand biases, no quick judgements, no speculation. How sweet that would be.

Unfortunately, that will never happen to AutoSpies, but there are so many reasons why it should.

And that's why I go to CarSpace every so often... to get away from this.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 11:32:08 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

If you would like to see my CarSpace page (carspace.com/esf) you would see photo galleries of the A3, RX330 and S4, and others at the site have been helping me with my "hard" car-buying decisions.

I don't know why you keep ignoring this, I've said it countless times. I WILL POST PICTURES WHEN I GET NEW CARS, AND AN ENTIRE ARTICLE.

It just so happens that we're not getting a new car for about eight months- it doesn't mean we're not getting a new car at ALL. Be patient. Don't believe my mindless chatter about different cars we're looking at; I change opinions every day. Today I was mulling over not replacing the A3 with a new winter car, to be more financially conservative. We are closing on a brand new house next week, and it's a big step up from the home we live in now; I don't want to blow my bonus out the window.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 11:34:31 PM | | Votes: 3

Sevorbeupstry, it's just carspace.com. You can start an account there for free, and the members of the site actually discuss cars in an enthusiastic, rational matter.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 11:36:18 PM | | Votes: 1

Lexus hybrid owners want to know who moved my trunk???

*cries*
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 12:37:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

cawimmer,

Lexus' limited appeal globally, especially in Europe, is because it's Japanese. Ignorant Europeans can't accept a superior car from outside their puny, oil-free continent.

Japanese cults follow real cars, not stupid little "we just got our asses handed to us by America, so this is all we can make" cars. Cult means low #, so there's always some weirdos who go against flow.

sevor,
Still blind as ever. Europeans profess to love the env't yet their industry cannot meet the Kyoto magic bullet (an inconvenient truth you might say). Their diesel cars require no less oil than gasoline, and their emissions standards are more lax than ours.

If only global warming could be fixed by European arrogance, then we'd all be laughing.

Then again, Europe is so corrupt and emasculated, they'd blame America for anything for fear of China/Iran and India reaping economic havoc on them, or Russia cutting off oil/gas supplies to them.

I'm saddened that Iran chose to show how gutless the EU is by embarrassing the UK.
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Mansur_Salim/2007/04/07/3943419.html

This proves the French, Germans and Italians hung England out to dry. They chose $ over a fellow EU member. This basically reinforces the notion they'd pollute the env't if it was more profitable (i.e. diesel premiums).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2045054,00.html

"The EU is by far Iran's biggest trading partner...Much of it is underpinned by export credit guarantees given by European governments, notably those of Germany, France and Italy"

"Iran comes second to none in terms of the proportion of German exports - in recent years up to 65% - underwritten by the German government"

Must be trying to unload their crap BMW's to the Ayatollah.

Thank God the US can still rely on Japan to save the env't and the world.

el34,
Hybrid owners want to know why Europe doesn't protect its own middle east oil, rather than always berating them for securing the very oil Europe covets so much for their diesels.

Look hypocrite up in the dictionary and you'll see a picture of mainland Europe.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 1:04:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

This post is so incredibly stupid, I shouldn't waste my time, but I can't resist.

1) Lexus doing poorly globally has nothing to do with it being Japanese. Toyota is Japanese and does well globally. Toyota stands for value and quality. Lexus is new and has no global image. People are not willing to shed out money for this supposed luxury car which has no image compared to the established and famous European brands. And cawimmer already mentioned the engine aspect. Big V6 and V8 engines won't do for Lexus globally. It's the smaller engines which appeal to European and Asian customers. That's the reason Lexus does poorly in Asia and Europe.

2) The USA did not defeat Nazi Germany, the USSR (that's the Soviet Union, or RUSSIA for you) bore the brunt of defeating the Germans. The US helped them through weapons, money and such, but the Russians did most of the dying. Where's Bill when you need him?
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 1:30:25 PM | | Votes: -1

Huu76 sounds like a Redneck, eh?
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 1:53:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

The LS600hL is truely a beautiful master piece..
— 2JZSoarer (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 4:23:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

The headlights on this 600 model really makes the car look better (on a front perspective). The rear I dislike a little bit but isn't bad.

2JZ are you getting a new Lexus anyime soon?
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 5:36:45 PM | | Votes: 1

Not likely,I'm very happy with my SC300TT,I'm 24 years old I'm not really into the high end luxury car thing,but if they would offer the IS350 in a coupe and a six speed,I would consider buying one...
— 2JZSoarer (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 12:50:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

2JZ, how's the interior leather and the rest holding up?

I'm a straight up German fan but I might be getting an IS250. It totally contradicts what I represent but I never said the IS isn't a good car. I like the quiet cabin the ride. The only pet peeve I have towards this car is it's interior space. VERY cramped!.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 7:50:54 AM | | Votes: 4

New C-Class, Agent63?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 6:44:33 PM | | Votes: 0

How much is the new C-Class?
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 1:10:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

197th post here!
Actually, LS460 is a beautiful master piece. Besides, It' s the best car of the year.
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 4:47:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

ooops. Its one more. But this LS600hl is a different league on its own.
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 4:54:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Mromar1
To sum it all up. this is alot of a money for a car such as this. Only novelty here being the Hybrid. The others in this segment offer much more driving and ownership pleasure

Your comment is so bias. Like European-car fans comments.

Am I wrong? Lets see what will the price of a USED LS600hL be...
— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 4:52:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

Willis,
Without America, the Russians would've done a lot of dying, and that's about it. Remember who ended up w/ the A-bomb to counter the Russians in 1945. How soon they forget who protected Europe for the last 50 years.

So which is it? Lack of a real V12 is a no go, yet lack of a small engine is a no go. Seems Europe can't handle the best of both world's when it comes from Japan.

As usual, nothing to counter my facts. Typical. I guess Liberal lovey-dovey Europe isn't so nice to look at once you see proof they're even more money hungry than N.America. Shouldn't surprise anyone, after all, remember the UN food or oil program? Remember how France tried so hard to protect Iraq so their dirty-dealings (against UN sanctions) wouldn't be exposed?

momar,
Like a broken record. Face it, only in Europe will a lie become fact if you repeat it enough times.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 6:37:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

huu:

racist. fascist. myopic. and generally ignorant. can't decide which description best fits you.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 7:47:40 PM | | Votes: -1

Huu76, you apparently never studied history. It's sad that most Americans think that "we" won WW2. I'm sure the 20 million dead Russians would love to hear you say that, especially since total US casualties in this war were less than 500,000. I won't bother educating you, you're a hopeless case.
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 3:43:24 AM | | Votes: -3

Really? You better not read this then. Germany plans to help Kyoto by building 12 new coal power plants. Goes hand in hand with helping the env't by building more oil thirsty diesel engines.
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar2007/gb20070321_923592.htm?chan=globalbiz_europe_energy+%2Bamp%3B+environment

Basically I'm saying Europeans are a bunch of hypocrites. You understand that?

This belief you're better than everyone when I've proven time and time again that Europe is lacking in numerous areas compared to N.America.

And yes, everything I mention comes back to automobiles, the typical "all that matters is it's German" argument.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/8/2007 10:55:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

racism and ethnocentrism rear their ugly heads again.
huu...you need help.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 11:01:43 AM | | Votes: -1

Do people have this much time on their hands to argue about something we all like - automobiles? Automobile marque-loyalists are just as bad as radicalist Jihad as most try to force an opinion and idea with uneccesary fueding.
— richardp996 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 1:55:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

If the ugly truth is racism, then call me Hitler.

enthusiast,
No, Liberal Europeans need help as it appears they're all schitzo. They can't remember if they're environmentalists or capitalists or just plain old hypocrites.

One things for sure, they're all hostage swapping weaklings.

Richard,
If you ever went to University and did field work, you'd know how to efficiently research as everything is scrutinized and you'd better have proof. What might take some an hour will take others minutes.

Momar,
Let me guess, and you'll own one of each?
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/9/2007 7:21:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

cawimmer--

points taken.

i'll acknowledge the Isetta has a cult following, but it WAS a VERY BASIC car. R&T had an article about it with one of the "cult" owners in the mid-west going on a cross country drive. they couldn't go thru a whole tankful of gas without some problem or other cropping up. the article WAS written to emphasize the humourous.(of course, it had some mileage accumulated. and it was being asked to drive at speeds in the midwest it was never designed to maintain.)

i made that post ONLY because of MunichRob's trying to tie Lexus to Toyota in a NEGATIVE way. as i said, Toyota can JUST as proud of their background as bmw. take it any way you want.

and Lexus consequently, despite its short history, has an even MORE EXCLUSIVE IMAGE today with the general public. regardless of the STATUS eurofans TRY to push it down to.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 5:12:41 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

"toyota can BE just as proud..."
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 5:16:41 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

idiotic critiques like that are like trying to diss Cadillac because of its linkage to Chevrolet! LOL!

Toyota/Lexus has an undeniable advantage over bmw and to a lesser extent, mb.
toyota, mb, and gm are all FULL LINE manufacturers, cranking out everything from econocars to luxury sedans and limos. and even buses and trucks. unlike the other 2, mb has ALL these vehicles sharing ONE nameplate. so the "image" is much diluted.

call it just "marketing" if you will, but it was a brilliant move on toyota's part to create a separate UP MARKET line. that was how GM got to be a giant. everyone KNOWS a caddy is not a buick is not a pontiac. to say nothing of a chevrolet.

Lexus likewise has a similar advantage over the germans.

it is only the fanboys who always insist lexi are "only rebadged toyotas." (which ITSELF has a quality of build and reliability still unmatched by the euro crowd.)

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 5:30:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

and still mb, audi and bmw FAR OUTSELL lexus in the luxury arena around the world.

400,000 lexus, 1.2MM BMW, 1.2MM MB
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 12:18:52 PM | | Votes: 1

"advantage over bmw and to a lesser extent, mb"

should ahave read, "advantage over mb and to a lesser extent, bmw." (since bmw does not make trucks and buses)
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 5:53:45 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

...and globally Toyota outsells all German manufacturers combined and has higher net profit on top of that.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 8:32:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

huu:
i'm comparing luxury brand to luxury brand.
anyway...please share your numbers for toyota sales vs. germans. you said you always used facts.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/10/2007 10:35:41 PM | | Votes: 1

the A-class and 1-series go head to head with TOYOTA models so its only logical to compare mb and bmw with toyota PLUS lexus. you can combine vw with audi figures too, to still make fair comparisons.

everyone knows toyota is about to overtake gm globally. ergo, it is #2 in volume globally.
.
— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/11/2007 9:39:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

enthusiast,
10 minutes of typing.

8.8 million last year, projected 9.3 million in 2007.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/22/business/toyota.php

VW Group (all brands) 5.73 million sales in 2006.
http://www.globalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail7968.htm
BMW and MB sales both = 2.4 million using your figures.
Porsche sold 40,000 units (see link at bottom regarding profit).

Toyota 2007 net profit expected US $13.2 billion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/automobiles/08toyota.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5088&en=1769ffb6d4951215&ex=1320642000&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

BMW 2006 net profit = US $3.77 billion.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20070308/germany-bmw.htm
VW Group 2006 net profit = US $3.6 billion.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20070220/germany-
volkswagen.htm
DaimlerChrysler 2006 net profit = EUR $3.2 billion so about $4.1 billion US (see page 2 & 13). You figure out how much Mercedes made since only 25% of the 4.5 million vehicles sold wear the Star.
http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0-5-7153-1-716979-1-0-0-0-0-0-9293-7145-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html
Porsche AG expects 2007 = US $2.76 billion (note a large part of profit is due to stock value, not actual profit).

If you include buses/industrial trucks from Mercedes, then the Germans just barely win. Mercedes profit range from 2 to 4.5 billion depending how you want to look at it. Is a bus or a delivery truck a luxury vehicle? I suppose if it helps prove your cause, sure.

Outsold, out profited. This doesn't even include Honda's 3.3 milllion cars and 12 milllion motorcycles sold. LOL, but we're not comparing Germany to Japan, just Toyota.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/12/2007 12:25:20 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Its just so hard to believe that Lexus is definitely the luxury brand to beat, Lexus is the ONE and no other new Luxs BRANDS even come close...no other brand can stop them from being the top luxury brand
— breh760li (View Profile)

Posted on 4/13/2007 3:04:10 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

When you compare the sales of Lexus and the German competition, you guys should really look at Europe. Lexus will never conquere Europe, because although we appreciate their reliablity. They are nothing special, we go for prestige and DESIGN. Design being a very important factor in a car. You look at the roads in France, Germany, U.K...it's German vehicles on the road...why, because they look beatiful and their names have prestige. For example, Russia in the modern day now pretty much post communism has an increasing middle class, I don't see them rushing out to buy Lexus lol, they go for MB, Audi and BMW. Because these cars although recently not living up to them i admit, have a reputation and a name with prestige. And Lexus will never in Europe earn such a name nor can justify such price tags.
— EliteRanger (View Profile)

Posted on 4/15/2007 8:50:49 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Do they think German cars are better, or do a lot of them secretly think like this?
http://www3.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/04/14/germany.race.ap/index.html

If it's not European, it's crap even if reality proves otherwise. If it has a Japanese name, it's automatically inferior even if my BMW catches fire for no reason? (atleast it's still a German ball of flame right)

If Europeans spent more time trying to be better rather than just thinking it, then perhaps they wouldn't find themselves in their current sorry state.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/16/2007 12:02:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

OK, in the modern day everything is decided by name. For example, you pay more for a pair of Nike trainers than you would a pair of Reeboks (at least in the U.K ). This is down to the fact Nike are seen as more desirable due to their brand name - and the "prestige" that comes with wearing them. By buying a Lexus, although you get the same quality car as the German competition, perhaps a little better in soem cases, with making this choice you have to compromise on name/prestige and design.
— EliteRanger (View Profile)

Posted on 4/16/2007 2:29:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

OK, in the modern day everything is decided by name. For example, you pay more for a pair of Nike trainers than you would a pair of Reeboks (at least in the U.K ). This is down to the fact Nike are seen as more desirable due to their brand name - and the "prestige" that comes with wearing them. By buying a Lexus, although you get the same quality car as the German competition, perhaps a little better in soem cases, with making this choice you have to compromise on name/prestige and design.

P.S - Europe is in a very comfortable state.
— EliteRanger (View Profile)

Posted on 4/16/2007 2:29:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

OK, in the modern day everything is decided by name. For example, you pay more for a pair of Nike trainers than you would a pair of Reeboks (at least in the U.K ). This is down to the fact Nike are seen as more desirable due to their brand name - and the "prestige" that comes with wearing them. By buying a Lexus, although you get the same quality car as the German competition, perhaps a little better in soem cases, with making this choice you have to compromise on name/prestige and design.

P.S - Europe is in a very comfortable state. We get far more news about the U.S.A (where I assume you're from) than you get about Europe. And let me tell you, I feel sorry for you.
— EliteRanger (View Profile)

Posted on 4/16/2007 2:30:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

OK, in the modern day everything is decided by name. For example, you pay more for a pair of Nike trainers than you would a pair of Reeboks (at least in the U.K ). This is down to the fact Nike are seen as more desirable due to their brand name - and the "prestige" that comes with wearing them. By buying a Lexus, although you get the same quality car as the German competition, perhaps a little better in soem cases, with making this choice you have to compromise on name/prestige and design.

P.S - Europe is in a very comfortable state. We get far more news about the U.S.A (where I assume you're from) than you get about Europe. And let me tell you, I feel sorry for you.
— EliteRanger (View Profile)

Posted on 4/16/2007 2:31:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Sorry about that, internet is playing up. Any way to delete these extra ones?
— EliteRanger (View Profile)

Posted on 4/16/2007 2:33:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Eliteranger,
I'm Canadian, and as an advid economist, I get news from everywhere. Stay long enough and you'll see atleast 1/3 of my resources are from European publications.

Lexus same quality as German? In Germany's dreams. You probably don't even know about 1/2 of their cars are no longer built in Germany, let alone an industrialized country.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2007 7:25:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I'm fully aware that they're not all built in Germany anymore. But I also think you'll find that quality isn't necessary what sales a car, or anything for that matter.

Again, whether you like it or not, it all boils down to name and brand. And that at the end of the day is what matters and what sales something. For example, someone buying an SL...it may spend a few days in the shop evey year, and if they bought a Lexus none. But at the end of the day, i know what i'd rather see on my driveway and drive to work in.
— EliteRanger (View Profile)

Posted on 4/19/2007 10:04:17 AM | | Votes: 1

Your last point is a fair and subjective opinion, but still just a single opinion.

Using your logic, Lexus' image in N.America (and now Japan it seems) puts them past the Germans. In Europe, it appears they'll get a big enough market in 10-15 years that the big 3 will have no choice but to accept they're a significant enough force and cannot be ignored (might be too late by then).
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/19/2007 10:36:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

10/15 years in the future, what will change? Go this far back in time and it was only this long ago we saw companies such as Mercedes Benz being the rock solid reliable vehicles that Lexus are today. And come 10/15 years ahead they will get back to that way.

Thus meaning Lexus have what, a badly exterior designed reliable car? Where as the "Big Three" will have reliable, attractive cars and a name that's world renown for many decades. I know which one will sell better.
— EliteRanger (View Profile)

Posted on 4/20/2007 9:58:01 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Only problem is Toyota isn't arrogant like the Germans.

Thus meaning Toyota/Lexus have more money than sie big-3 will ever see, and they haven't even really tapped the European market yet.

You should do some research, it's the Germans who are copying the Japanese now. Of course, to loyal badge-whores, it could come out 5 years after the competition and still be considerd the original.

What a laugh, always back to prestige and some magic feely thing. How prestigious is it to cost less than an Accord?
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/20/2007 7:48:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I should do some research? It's not Toyota as a brand that hasn't tapped into the European market, they have. It's just their sister brand Lexus that hasn't, for various reasons. And the Germans copying the Japanese, pls...give me some examples?
— EliteRanger (View Profile)

Posted on 4/21/2007 5:59:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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