IamEvilHomer
IamEvilHomer
Sales manager for Audi in California
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Lexus LS 460 L Long-term Update: Overengineered?
Our staff of enthusiast drivers continues to find the quiet, smooth Lexus too much of an isolation chamber for real driving enjoyment. Most push the “Sport” button as a matter of routine, to dial out some of the plush, gliding effect, though we do like being coddled sometimes—for example, when the Lexus awaits at the airport after 24 hours of flying home from China.

If there’s no ocean in the way, we skip the airport and take the car. The LS 460 L has been a favorite for long-distance travel, and there’s plenty of power to shorten the trip. The eight-speed contributes to exceptional fuel economy for this class. Long freeway runs have pushed mpg up beyond 25 for a 700-mile range. Road-trippers do note that the reclining back seat steals trunk space. Several times, drivers with three aboard have stowed the third person’s baggage in a rear seat. For four of you, pack lightly. There’s scads of legroom, though.

Also this quarter, our managing editor had a fright-inducing moment when a slab of steel covering a construction site on the road triggered the Lexus’ precrash safety systems. The car slammed on its own brakes (the driver wasn’t even grazing the pedal), and the seatbelts ratcheted down tight to prepare for what the system assumed was an imminent collision. It didn’t last long, but he felt as if the car had roughed him up unnecessarily. Overengineered? Maybe.
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JRobUSCJRobUSC - 9/21/2007 4:56:03 PM
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that braking thing is crazy. We have tons of those steel slabs on the roads here ("construction" seems to be our fifth season), so the car slamming the brakes on its own around them would be a huge, huge issue.

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Threepoint1415926Threepoint1415926 - 9/21/2007 7:05:52 PM
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I dont think people realize how big an issue it really is. A car which heavily brakes when it's not suppose to is a failure of a car!!!


EnnNorakEnnNorak - 9/21/2007 10:09:33 PM
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Only once did I ever come close to getting killed by steel. I fell asleep on a long-distance drive years ago and almost hit some steel reinforcement bars sticking out of the back of a big flat trailer. I woke up in time with the steel bars about 2 feet from my face in front of the windshield. I would have surely been decapitated. Older and wiser now, I limit my non-stop driving distance and pull over for a power nap at the slightest hint of drowsiness.


Need4SpeedNeed4Speed - 9/21/2007 5:00:03 PM
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I heard the next Lexus LS 460 is gonna have an R2D2 in the back seat to help fly the car when Darth Vader pulls up in his all black AMG S 65.

Sorry...that wasn't nice...but I couldn't help myself! I won't do it again...promise!

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EL34allroadEL34allroad - 9/21/2007 7:13:52 PM
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Wasn't very humorous either.


EL34EL34 - 9/21/2007 5:13:31 PM
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So in other words the LS is like driving a couch, ouch!

Why not save some money and buy a fully loaded 2008 Buick Lucerne?

See how logical EL34 is!!!

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zairnaimzairnaim - 9/21/2007 5:20:36 PM
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it is a limo the point is comfort


EL34allroadEL34allroad - 9/21/2007 7:13:11 PM
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When did 'logical' become a synonym for blathering idiot?


DaHarderDaHarder - 9/21/2007 5:46:56 PM
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LEXUS is an automobile manufacturer that knows its target audience far better than almost any other I can think of.

I, personally, prefer a 'more sporting' driving experience, but the time I have been behind the wheel of a LEXUS (almost any LEXUS) has been relaxing, coddling, trouble-free and luxurious.

These attributes seem to be what LEXUS owners appreciate, and no one delivers better.

Not everyone wants/needs a sporting drive...


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Threepoint1415926Threepoint1415926 - 9/21/2007 7:29:14 PM
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I heard someone once say that the German luxury cars are built to enjoy driving while Lexus (Lexera or Lexi, whatever the plural is) are built to tolerate it. This article and your words seem to echo that idea.


mscottc1mscottc1 - 9/21/2007 10:15:16 PM
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I must agree. There are different approaches to automotive engineering and even to what people think or as "luxury" in a car. I personally consider my new 650i coupe to be very luxurious, but it's by NO MEANS a "luxury car"-- it's a sports coupe/luxurious tourer, so to speak. Many reasons I would choose it over comparably priced LS460/LS460l or others, especially the fact that I don't do tons of long-range driving. I want my car to do what my 6 does best- handle at an amazing level when driving quickly on twisty back-roads, and get lots of stares & looks when driving LEGAL speeds around town!

When driving to the airport (nearly 2 hours away) or on any sort of long-ish highway-going-straight-with-the-cruise-on kind of driving, I'd rather take the LS430 that my in-laws drive most of the time. Gets 25-26 MPG & cruises silently at 85 MPH while not even getting a second glance (from anyone, even cops).


kpaxxkpaxx - 9/24/2007 8:49:03 AM
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Really most lexus I have been in have had horribly uncomfortable seats. Which are especially noticeable on long drives.

My neighbor in particular disregarded the purchase of a lexus since the seats were so uncomforatble.


BMW_DRVRBMW_DRVR - 9/24/2007 5:09:59 PM
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If Lexus knew its market that well they wouldn't be building the "F" branded cars. That is if it really wants to be a M3 and RS4/5 competitor. People who want sport goes to BMW and Audi. I think Lexus should go after AMG. That is more their style.


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 9/21/2007 6:44:31 PM
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If anybody is curious about where the American car luxury market has gone, just look to Lexus.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 9/21/2007 7:08:32 PM
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bingo.

lexus destroyed cadillac and lincoln--sales took a dive--while the germans have continued to grow.


EnnNorakEnnNorak - 9/21/2007 10:12:57 PM
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Lincoln destroyed itself not Lexus. If Ford would not have allowed Lincoln to slide down the toilet, it would be a better car today than Lexus is. I think that Cadillac offers far greater value than Lexus and the new CTS is on my shopping list.


r_driver04r_driver04 - 9/24/2007 2:50:58 PM
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The new CTS is a nice car except for that junky 3.6 they've got in it. Sorry to say ol' chaps, but Cadillac will never be a better value($) than a Lexus. Look at the resale values after 3, 5 and even 10yrs. Lexus has 'em beat blokes.


germeezy2germeezy2 - 9/21/2007 7:04:39 PM
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Go drive a DTS, in base trim and drive an LS460 and tell me does the LS460 coddle you $40k more? And then for those that don't want to spend Cadillac money there is always the Lucerne.

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EL34allroadEL34allroad - 9/21/2007 7:15:44 PM
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It sure does.


EnnNorakEnnNorak - 9/21/2007 10:15:15 PM
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Yes the Lucerne with the DOHC Cadillac NorthStar V8 is a better value than Cadillac itself but I'm waiting for the Lucerne to go RWD (and with LSD I hope).


CarboyCarboy - 9/24/2007 6:06:08 PMView My AgentSpace
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During my vacation, I was a passenger of a DTS and I have to say comfort was great, good smooth comfortable car, but if driven at 90MPH in Nevada, it will be super noisy with some wind squeking noise. But the tranmission was a bit crappy. Sometimes it will forget to shift.


richard112360richard112360 - 9/21/2007 7:28:05 PM
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Here are some key notes from the article. I don't think you can say the same for Mercedes or BMW.

"It’s been stone-cold reliable, requiring one routine service during the most recent three months, when we clocked our 10,000th mile in May. The service involved an oil change, replacement of the cabin air filter, a tire rotation and general inspection, and it cost $268.60."



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Threepoint1415926Threepoint1415926 - 9/21/2007 7:40:52 PM
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You're saying that in only 10K miles, all German cars break? I hardly think that's accurate.


IamEvilHomerIamEvilHomer - 9/21/2007 7:47:23 PM
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bmw would have paid for the service

and for Audi you can get that covered for 4 years for $590


david999david999 - 9/21/2007 7:52:27 PM
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You picked the right quote richard112360.
That's the point of a large, luxury sedan. Comfortable trouble free driving.


IamEvilHomerIamEvilHomer - 9/21/2007 7:55:03 PM
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david999 that is the point for you not for me. I wasnt the same things but want more "driving" and less driven


mscottc1mscottc1 - 9/21/2007 10:21:18 PM
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yep, BMW would have paid for that, and more- even the BMW Assist service is now included for FOUR years, not just the one year GM is making such a huge deal over giving folks with OnStar, or MB & others only give from 6mos to one year gratis. It's hard to get locked out of a Bimmer these days, especially if it has comfort access, but when you DO get locked out, it's nice to just call the 800 number and they unlock it for you-- plus I don't feel like I need to worry about what might happen if my wife has an accident on a rural back-road and goes un-noticed in some ravine or something-- BMW Assist would let EMS know her exact location, and alert me too. I was always willing to pay for the service, but now that it's free it's even better!


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/22/2007 1:08:29 AMView My AgentSpace
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"That's the point of a large, luxury sedan. Comfortable trouble free driving."

That may be true for some people... but with me, I'd sacrifice some of the reliability for a better driving experience. This car is very one-dimensional; its sportiness is not inherent, like an S-Class, A8 or 7 Series. The thing about the Germans is they can go either way, and that's what's so great about them. Lexus has yet to learn how to do this.

Anyhow, the new S has nowhere near the amount of complaints as the old W220- at least, that's what I'm hearing. It's supposedly a much more reliable product. As for the A8 and 7 Series... they're both in their final years, so I'd think that any former gremlins have been gone for awhile now.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 9/23/2007 11:47:36 PM
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david999:

"That's the point of a large, luxury sedan. Comfortable trouble free driving."

no, that's the point of a corolla. the point of a luxury car is some combination of style, high performance, innovative technology and luxury not available in common cars.


ATripATrip - 9/24/2007 4:05:34 PM
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I can't stand you David999. You are such a delusional loser. Don't have too much to say about this topic huh?


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 9/21/2007 8:26:05 PM
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Interesting Point Evil Homer, Does that make Lexus an expensive, high maintenance car?

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IamEvilHomerIamEvilHomer - 9/21/2007 8:33:46 PM
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no i am just replying to david999


mscottc1mscottc1 - 9/21/2007 10:23:36 PM
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Lexus are expensive, and thankfully very reliable. When they do break, it's not cheap though-- just ask anyone who's ever had to pay for a major service on an LS with 75-80k miles and no extended service plan! (got the t-shirt, had to pay extra for it though)


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 9/23/2007 11:49:16 PM
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please, you're 20 something and drive a toyota.

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RupertRupert - 9/22/2007 10:42:04 AMView My AgentSpace
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Just do the typical, traditional American thing and sue their asses off.

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theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 9/22/2007 12:22:01 PM
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LOL


izfuneyizfuney - 9/22/2007 5:06:33 PM
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The pre-collision system primes the brakes/and pre-tenses the seat belts . It DOES NOT SLAM ON THE BRAKES!!!
if so there would have been a huge pileup on the freeway.
I think the LS is a handsome car that has the hallmark of great engineering.( Something MB used to have pre - 1994)
As for the comparisons of Audi /MB/BMW - yes the cars are serviced for free but most of the time you are drivign a crappy loaner while your $$$$$ sedan is having something fixed.
Plus - all these big cars are hardly corner carvers- The germans are hardly fun cars to drive - unless your perception of fun drive is having a propellor badge ! or a great marketing slogan

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Threepoint1415926Threepoint1415926 - 9/22/2007 6:30:01 PM
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"The Frontal Pre-Crash system will activate a warning buzzer and red dash lights to alert the driver if a potential hazard is detected in the vehicle's path. If the system detects a potential collision, the Emergency Steering Assist and brake assist systems will activate, increasing effectiveness in emergency maneuvers and stopping. If a collision is determined to be unavoidable, the seatbelt pretensioners will activate, and the brakes will automatically engage to slow the vehicle"

Seems that Lexus and this driver say otherwise about the collision system....

As to the loaner car, are you saying that Lexus provides no loaner car at all? Or that Lexus provides an LS model equivalent to the customer's? Seems to me that all dealers tend to provide loaner cars in the mid sized to full sized range. I have happen to notice a fair share of ES Lexera around my parts with "courtesy vehicle" written on the windshield.

These cars may not be Ferrari's around the corners but they are a much more involving drive than their Lexus counterpart. I think that's been pretty well established by the car mag comparo's.




theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 9/22/2007 7:49:58 PM
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"Plus - all these big cars are hardly corner carvers- The Germans are hardly fun cars to drive"

This tells me you have never driven a BMW 7er!


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 9/22/2007 11:52:06 PMView My AgentSpace
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"As for the comparisons of Audi /MB/BMW - yes the cars are serviced for free but most of the time you are drivign a crappy loaner while your $$$$$ sedan is having something fixed."

And what do you think the Lexus dealership gives you while it's in the shop? An LS460? Nope, they hand out ES300s and ES330s. How is that any better than A4s and 3 Series's?


RupertRupert - 9/23/2007 9:01:41 AMView My AgentSpace
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I must add that when my friend's E class went beserk (it kept trying to kill her) her loaner was an S class, which we all thought was pretty good.


85bmw745i85bmw745i - 9/24/2007 7:49:52 PMView My AgentSpace
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The Volvo Dealer gives my girlfriend a Mercedes if anything goes wrong with the car. Once for the thermostat, once for a cup holder that was broken. Their service was far better than any other dealership around here. I can't say thats the case everywhere else but their service and sales have me really looking at another Volvo for her.


EL34EL34 - 9/22/2007 10:24:40 PM
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The Lexus 460 shouldn't even be featured in a car magazine.

It should be in Blimp & Driver.

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MercedesKingMercedesKing - 9/23/2007 1:42:38 PM
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You should be featured on the cover of 'Forclosure Quarterly'


IamEvilHomerIamEvilHomer - 9/24/2007 1:00:53 AM
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nicad top catch?


RupertRupert - 9/23/2007 9:02:59 AMView My AgentSpace
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The X3 was the most reliable car in this years Top Gear Survey.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 9/23/2007 11:52:09 PM
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read JD powers boys.

lexus--and all the germans--are well above average.

and even average cars are incredibly reliable...averaging 2 problems per car over THREE YEARS!

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kpaxxkpaxx - 9/24/2007 8:52:11 AM
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The article seems to describe poor engineering as opposed to over engineering. The precrash system should not go off inadvertently. This is poor engineering period.

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answeranswer - 9/24/2007 12:20:31 PMView My AgentSpace
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Oh what's this?

Another article.

More Lexus bashing. More German cars are always better talk. More random Lexus fanboy nonsense.

Looks like another great week at autospies.

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