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Lexus has teething problems with IS-F design but there’s a reason
The new IS-F sedan has shown that engineers at Lexus can build performance cars that can go head-to-head with sport saloons from their German rivals, but convincing buyers that the new ‘F’ brand can equal the more established ‘M’ and ‘AMG’ marques is a much tougher challenge. There’s no doubting that the V8 rear-driver is a solid car. Unfortunately, most agree that its stock interior, awkward bodykit and bonnet bulge doesn’t meld to form a complete package.

Toyota’s design chief Wahei Hirai acknowledged that there are such complaints but said in defense that the goal with the IS-F was to create a feel for all F performance models rather than focus on the single IS-F. Read Article



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EvoAudiEvoAudi - 11/5/2007 10:42:57 AMView My AgentSpace
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excuses,excuces

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CzelinskiCzelinski - 11/5/2007 10:47:51 AM
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The reason: they can't design cars.

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lexusis350lexusis350 - 11/5/2007 9:21:39 PM
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Can't they? Last time I checked, Lexus was the #1 luxury automaker in the largest auto market in the world. They must be doing something right.


kablaamkablaam - 11/6/2007 7:28:11 PM
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"Can't they? Last time I checked, Lexus was the #1 luxury automaker in the largest auto market in the world. They must be doing something right."

Lexus is pretty much unknown outside of America, yeah..... something right.


BillBill - 11/5/2007 11:07:18 AM
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Lexus copied the Hoffmeister kink. What's your excuse now?

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answeranswer - 11/5/2007 11:53:56 AMView My AgentSpace
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Could everyone please drop the whole Hoffmeister kink nonsense?

A damn angle/slope of a line isn't exlusive to BMW just because they gave it a name. And I beleive whatever caveman was the first to draw that curve in the dirt is the real source of its origin.

If you do continue to bitch about, at least be fair and mention the numerous other cars with a similar rear-window slope. The new G sedan from Infiniti is but one example.

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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 11/5/2007 12:30:29 PM
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"A damn angle/slope of a line isn't exlusive to BMW just because they gave it a name."

LOL!

Stupidest comment ever on Autospies!


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answeranswer - 11/5/2007 12:51:45 PMView My AgentSpace
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So if Hyundai called a 90 degree angle the "Korean curve" you'd give them credit for its invention?

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zorbeezezorbeeze - 11/5/2007 1:53:05 PM
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"LOL!

Stupidest comment ever on Autospies!"

Most childish comment ever in human history.


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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/5/2007 5:54:41 PMView My AgentSpace
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It's obvious that Lexus has incorporated quite a few BMW design cues, no? answer, you don't need to justify the Lexus kink. It's not a big deal that they look a lot like BMWs... as long as you admit that they do.

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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 11/5/2007 6:15:09 PM
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I suggest all of you go study the history of Wilhelm Hoffmeister.



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stash84stash84 - 11/6/2007 10:56:21 AM
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people will say anything to bash lexus..its getting ridiculous

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stash84stash84 - 11/6/2007 11:01:59 AM
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The Hoffmeister Kink

In 1965, BMW introduced 1965 2000C. The designer, Wilhelm Hoffmeister, is credited with first penning the little forward wedge at the base o f the C-pillar that has become a BMW design hallmark known as the "Hoffmeister kink." The same styling cue has not only adorned nearly every BMW since but also many a would-be Bimmer from other manufacturers. However, the copy-cat was not Lexus, nor Infiniti, etc .

The copier was Hoffmeister himself. Said kink on the rear quarter window was a feature on Dodge Dart and Polara models in 1960.

So maybe we should call it the “Exner Kink”?



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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/6/2007 6:37:45 PM
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there's a key point your missing. the hoffmeister kink has become a trademark of BMW cars since the 1960s. cars across the BMW lineup incorporate it. it's integral to their design.

imitation is the greatest form of flattery.


zorbeezezorbeeze - 11/6/2007 7:35:48 PM
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And i suggest you do the same. A single design cue that is as general as this is, is not a form of copying or stealing.
Hey, while we're at it why don't we let Donald Trump have copyrights on the term "you're fird". Hech, why don't we let Paris Hilton copy right "that's hot".
You people are so narrowminded it's incredible.

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henbmwhenbmw - 11/7/2007 10:08:17 AM
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Actually, they both applied to get copyrights yet were narrowly denied. However, there are many other 2-3 word phrases that are copyrighted.


answeranswer - 11/8/2007 11:58:52 AMView My AgentSpace
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Just because they chose to use it on the majority of their car designs sure doesn't give them exlusive rights to it.



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CzelinskiCzelinski - 11/5/2007 11:31:31 AM
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Governments world wide pushing for improved emissions.

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BillBill - 11/5/2007 1:24:44 PM
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Diesel engines do kick hybrids asses when it comes to overall fuel economy. A hybrid is only effective within urban environments.

And hybrids pollute in their own way. I'll let a genius like Nicad figure that out himself...


zorbeezezorbeeze - 11/5/2007 1:56:07 PM
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"Diesel engines do kick hybrids asses when it comes to overall fuel economy. A hybrid is only effective within urban environments"

Considering the majority of the population live and drive in these urban environments you speak of then yes they are far better than diesels.


BillBill - 11/5/2007 3:57:06 PM
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In the US they do, but not in Europe for example, another major market...


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/5/2007 5:56:03 PMView My AgentSpace
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And it's not like there's much of a difference between the city figures of hybrids and diesels; they're quite comparable. It's really the highway where the diesels (quite literally) pull away, though.


chris760chris760 - 11/5/2007 11:35:37 PM
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while diesels are great, hybrids are about as fun to drive as nothing


zorbeezezorbeeze - 11/6/2007 2:05:11 PM
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To bill, really, in europe the majority of people live in the country. It`s not what ive seen the many times ive been to Spain, England, Greece, Italy, Czech, France.
Especially in Greece where half the country live in 2 cities.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/6/2007 6:39:55 PM
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zorb...

"Considering the majority of the population live and drive in these urban environments"

this may be true in europe, but not in the US. have you heard or suburban sprawl? this is where the majority of americans with cars live. so diesels are FAR better suited to US drivers.


zorbeezezorbeeze - 11/6/2007 7:32:56 PM
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So one says it's true for europe only and the other says its for the US only.
I know the urban sprawl you speak of, but the majority of people live within a perimeter where hybrids reach their goals. Calculate the amount of time you've spent in city driving and compare it to the amount of time spent country driving. I live in the suburbs, have been for over a decade, and i still spend most of my time driving below 80kmh in the city. As do the majority of people.


EL34EL34 - 11/5/2007 11:31:53 AM
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This guy Wahei Hirai won't even stand behind the design.

He folded like a mold.

lol

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/5/2007 12:11:25 PM
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"Toyota’s design chief Wahei Hirai acknowledged that there are such complaints but said in defense that the goal with the IS-F was to create a feel for all F performance models rather than focus on the single IS-F."

so all the F's are going to be this awkward looking? his justification for the IS-F weirdness is that all of the F's will be weird. makes no sense.

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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 11/5/2007 12:29:14 PM
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I'm sorry but I don't call that design.

This is yet another empty article full of marketing rubbish!

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/5/2007 5:56:51 PMView My AgentSpace
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It sounds like an excuse to me...


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lexusis350lexusis350 - 11/5/2007 9:23:17 PM
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Well, it's their first attempt. The first time for everything is hardly ever the best attempt.


chris760chris760 - 11/5/2007 11:36:09 PM
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an obvious excuse indeed


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/6/2007 8:47:46 PMView My AgentSpace
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I hope the next one is better.


LexusLexus - 11/5/2007 6:28:25 PM
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All it really matter is, the Lexus IS-F goes from 0-60 in 4.2s and what was the BMW M3 run from 0-60 again? 4.8s.

This is the first Gen Lexus IS-F, can't wait for the next gen, just imagine what it could do in this segment.

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theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 11/5/2007 8:59:43 PM
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umm. the same magazine the did the 4.2 0-60 run also pulled 4.3 out of the M3. in addition the Benz destroyed everybody with a 0-60 of 3.9 Seconds and still lost to the M3

doesn't anybody read anything but their own propaganda anymore.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/6/2007 12:28:17 AM
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lexus:

i love how you pull the single best time recorded for the ISF (note: nobody else has gotten 4.2 other than car & drive--which is biased to BMW except when it says something you like) and then incorrectly quote the M3 time which has been consistently recorded at 4.3.

flat out lying. nice.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/6/2007 12:30:31 AM
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and just because it goes fast in a straight line doesn't mean it has the chassis to handle all that power as well as the M3. and it's still ugly and has an automatic which takes away a lot of fun. we'll have to drive both and see.


autoproautopro - 11/5/2007 6:41:52 PMView My AgentSpace
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Who sells the most luxury car's in the U.S. again I forget?

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theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 11/5/2007 9:01:25 PM
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Trick answer;

BMW sell the most luxury cars in the US.

Lexus sell the most luxury cars and trucks in the US.

Worldwide; Lexus ain't even close.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/6/2007 12:25:47 AM
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optimist, all three of your statements are factually correct.


Will_Will_ - 11/6/2007 2:58:29 AM
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"BMW sell the most luxury cars in the US.

Lexus sell the most luxury cars and trucks in the US."

Sound like excuses to me...


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/6/2007 6:42:58 PM
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will:

BMW does in fact sell the most luxury CARS in the US.

lexus sells the most luxury SUVs in the US.

and the BMW brand sells more than 3x the volume of lexus globally.




stash84stash84 - 11/6/2007 11:04:09 PM
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Why are we isolating lexus and ignoring toyotas' sales?

Is it because were counting "luxury cars" sales?

So then, is a 325i a luxury sedan???

How about a benz 230 ?

When is a car considered a "luxury sedan"?

Wouldnt a fully loaded camry be more of a luxury car than a 3 series bmw or a benz 230??


henbmwhenbmw - 11/7/2007 10:13:31 AM
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Why would Toyota have created Lexus if the Camry can be considered a luxury car? What would be the point of the ES? The brand name has a lot to do with your question but standard features and available features are also big indicators.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/7/2007 12:27:32 PM
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stash:

lexus and bmw are luxury brands. toyota is not. i don't understand your confusion.




autoproautopro - 11/12/2007 3:42:36 PMView My AgentSpace
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BMW better sell more vehicles globally,they've been selling cars for over eighty years.Lexus only 17 so I think in the long run lexus will overtake.Toyota already spanks everybody.


SX123SX123 - 11/5/2007 6:55:26 PM
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The new IS-F sedan has shown that engineers at Lexus can build performance cars that can go head-to-head with sport saloons from their German rivals,


YES.

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huu76huu76 - 11/5/2007 8:45:23 PM
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All these negative forums about the IS-F. Do the German fanboys really feel this threatened?

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chris760chris760 - 11/5/2007 11:37:31 PM
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no...not at all

did the german fanboys ever feel threatened at anytime?


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/6/2007 12:24:21 AM
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not a bit huu.

just irritated by at all the ridiculous statements made by the lexus fanatics in particular.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/6/2007 8:49:37 PMView My AgentSpace
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Why would we feel threatened? If it was truly superior to the rest, we wouldn't miss out--we're CAR enthusiasts. We'd buy it.


bulldogzbulldogz - 11/7/2007 12:34:55 PM
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not true at all S4, you and I both know that ANY German car lover would never buy a Lexus even if this car topped out at $50k and outperformed them. BMW and MB have both had a bunch of stinkers yet people will still buy them regardless, hence the term "badge whore".


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/7/2007 11:32:52 PMView My AgentSpace
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Alright then... think what you may. But I would. If the IS-F outperformed the C63 AMG, M3 AND RS4, I would want one.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/8/2007 11:49:38 AM
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bulldog:

there's no bigger brand whore than a lexus buyer. for goodness sakes, an ES IS A CAMRY with a new badge and some leather. an LX IS A LANDCRUISER. etc.


BMW995BMW995 - 11/5/2007 9:28:35 PM
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Frankly, I prefer the "Goldberg kink" on the rear-side window that Hyundai stole from the '86 Lada.

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HwanyHwany - 11/7/2007 7:42:05 AM
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I must admit it though. It looks great on black.
It hides all the busy looking body lines. Maybe I'll get used to the stacked exhaust someday....





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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/7/2007 11:33:29 PMView My AgentSpace
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Right, they're only the most popular luxury brand in the world.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 11/8/2007 11:54:46 AM
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i'll help you out here apex. you're getting caught up in semantics.

BMWs are about providing a great driving experience first, traditional "luxury" second. all the cars are fun to drive. and the more expensive models add in luxury to that experience.

and, guess what, people are willing to pay huge premiums for a car that's a blast to drive. if you're getting caught up on the word luxury then replace it with prestige.

BMW, lexus, mercedes, etc...they're all prestige brands.

and BMW happens to be the best selling prestige car brand in the world. period.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 11/8/2007 5:23:52 PMView My AgentSpace
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Alex, you're just being ridiculous.

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