Mercedes-Benz and BMW joining forces

And MadibaP is an idiot the sales figures prove it.

— FactsRule (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 10:11:40 AM | | Votes: 13   

Popularity means nothing. Unless you do indeed think that Jerry Springer and WWF are the pinnacle of entertainment since they are the most popular?

And FACTS bear out Merc's poor quality and BMW's lack of style... idiot.

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 10:32:43 AM | | Votes: -19   

Poor little MadibaP !!! Resorting to name calling now are we.. Just proves you know nothing..

— FactsRule (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 10:37:00 AM | | Votes: 12   

Can you read your OWN post? Is your concentration level THAT bad? No wonder you think Merc is good...

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 10:46:07 AM | | Votes: -18   

Referring to your statement of the Jerry Springer and WWF.. I take that as name calling cause I can't stand either one..

— FactsRule (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 10:50:48 AM | | Votes: 8   

Name calling is you saying that I am an idiot and me returning the favor. My citing Jerry Springer and WWF as examples of popular entertainment is not name calling.

for a FactsRule guy you are not doing too well so far...

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 11:10:23 AM | | Votes: -11   

Seems most people agree with me Madiba... Look at your deboost rate!!!

Your ratings are about as high as George Bush's!!! LOL

— FactsRule (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 11:17:49 AM | | Votes: 8   

I told you Jerry Springer and WWF were popular!

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 11:37:11 AM | | Votes: -11   

Mercedes-Benz ranked above average and just above Infiniti and just below Acura in the last JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2007130.pdf

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 11:38:19 AM | | Votes: 6   

Take a lesson from this experiment: I once bought a fancy brass lamp for my night table. The store had only two in stock and both had serious flaws. I took out my Leatherman® tool and took both lamps apart right in front of the clerk (called sales associate these days), took the best parts from each lamp and reassembled both.

Needless to say, I bought the good one with no flaws after rebuild. I believe that BMW/Mercedes collaboration can achieve similar benefits.

— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 11:50:02 AM | | Votes: 3   

Mercedes poor quality? I guess you've never owned one =). I got a S550. I've had the E550 as well and I've never had any complaints. Who are you comparing this poor quality to? hmm....Toyolexus? please. You want to talk about a Lexus I've got the LS as well. It's nice but it lacks the luster and ambiance required in a 100K+ vehicle. I'm a stock investor and part time Realtor. You have no idea how many complaints I receive from my clients and they drive Audi's..and if you know cars, Audi makes top notch interiors with the best fine finishing IMO.

Don't spam the board and make the regulars angry. The only CRAP car that i ever owned that served a Mercedes badge was the previous generation ML and the C-class kompressor. Other than that the range models are fine.

I assume you support Japanese cars (specifically Lexus) fair enough. they make good cars and have good service. However, if that's all you know who are you to say a Merc's POOR QUALITY? I've got the best of both worlds. I can argue for both but both satisfy my driving needs.

I am a diehard Merc fan but i won't run away from admitting Lexus (who has been copying Mercedes with the Maybach rear end in their LS) do make decent cars. It just hasn't won me over. S600 or LS600HL. S600 hands down. That price it better come with prestige and the LS lacks that image. Not that i care cause I drive an LS to work as a daily driver but you'd want some curb appeal. That's what my s550 is for...it's for the night time driving.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/24/2008 2:31:19 PM | | Votes: 2   

Madiba it's WWE, get the F out.

— APKJ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/25/2008 11:37:28 AM | | Votes: 0   

Who's quality level has 'rised' fatboi? The Japs or the Germans?

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 9:49:06 AM | | Votes: -19   

Maybe they can give Max Mosley a job? He can beat the brides maids....?

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 9:49:56 AM | | Votes: -19   

Must be a full moon, because they are all out tonight!!!,,, :-D

— simmonsdp (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 6:07:25 PM | | Votes: 4   

MadibaP you must mean Mercury, Right??? Otherwise you are just another wannabe vomiting crap.....

— FactsRule (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 10:35:35 AM | | Votes: 10   

No idiot. Go look up the reliability stats for the last 15 years!

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 10:43:58 AM | | Votes: -14   

Wow ... another wannabee in the already abundant list on the autospies site. Madiba - what are you talking about? Last time I checked, Acura provides the ugliest cars. That is unless you frequently go to Medieval Times, then I would have some understanding of why you would like Acura. I mean, maybe you have a seat or you have been watching too many King Arthur movies. What fact bear out BMW's lack of style? Last time I checked the New Lexus LS460 is a carbon copy of the BMW 7-series. From the side profile you could trace outside the BMW and look you have a Lexus LS460. You are right BMW's have no style. How much style does lexus actually have? What innovations in regards to style has lexus actually come up with that have been transformed into other luxury makes and models? Have any lexus designers won Designer of the Year? Have any lexus engines, won any engine awards for technological break through's or innovations? But I know you have the stacked exhausts of the IS-F, the self parking of the LS460, and the hybrid technology that uses up most of the cargo space and provides same fuel consumption as the gas counterpart on the highway.

— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 10:51:00 AM | | Votes: 10   

"You are right BMW's have no style"

So you agree.

But you think Acura is worse and you dearly wish to tarnish Lexus with BMW's ugly brush, is that what you are saying?

So your "Wow ... another wannabee in the already abundant list on the autospies site. Madiba - what are you talking about?" comments really mean you are in agreement with me, but wish to drag others down with BMW? So I (and you) are 'wannabee's' cause you are angry about the fact that BMW has no style?

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 11:05:05 AM | | Votes: -13   

Madiba . We dont agree, but you fail to understand what I was saying. ""You are right BMW's have no style"" This was sarcasm. BMW whether you like it or not have been one of the most influential designs over the past decade. Mercedes & Lexus have both borrowed alot of styling cues from the often much maligned BMW 7-series. The flame surface that Bangle introduced has been copied by more luxury car makers in one form or another. BMW has won more accolades for design & engines, than Lexus,Acura & Infiniti combined over the past decade.

What acura actually done in design to improve or influence other manufactures to want to copy something from them?

What about lexus? What styling cues or innovations has Lexus come up with in the last 5 years, that you see trickling into other Luxury car companies?


Just name one.

— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 11:18:18 AM | | Votes: 4   

Its very simple: Look around and see what is popular? Good food or fast food? Opera or Britney Spears? WWF or Cricket?

Poor minds are impressed easily with flashing lights and loud noises. BMW Design and philosophy is without taste or style and its popularity (in particular who it is popular with) tells anyone who has eyes all they need to know about the brand.

And I get that you don't like Lexus, Acura & Infiniti, but why are you telling me this?

It won't make BMW any better!

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 11:49:05 AM | | Votes: -7   

Taste is the eye of the beholder to whose palate it is. This is why there are 33 flavours of ice cream. But to deny thru ignorance the influence that BMW designs have had over the past 10 years, is very short sighted. Take the blinders off and look around.

"Poor minds are impressed easily with flashing lights and loud noises. BMW Design and philosophy is without taste or style and its popularity (in particular who it is popular with) tells anyone who has eyes all they need to know about the brand "

Then you of all people should know that the Japanesse are the ones who use slick marketing and gadgetry to sway the popular vote. What is the benefit of the self-parking feature for the Lexus LS460? to aide the blind or near sighted in their parking adventures. Come on already. It is not practical in a major city, due to you need so much extra space around the car to have it work. When is the last time, take Chicago for example, that you have ever found a parrallel parking spot open that has 6 ft more room than your car. Never.


You still have not answered my questions into what innovations either Lexus or Acura have had in the last 10 years that have infuenced other manufacturers?

Instead you like to comment on the pop culture of today? Who cares about Britney Spears or the WWF? How does that relate to cars and their identity? Unless you are saying that the gimmicks is what helps Lexus sell Lexus?

In regards to Lexus, acura or infiniti, I have nothing against them. It just kills me when the fans of these companies come out to praise their excellence on every topic whether it applies to their companies or not. This article is about the merger or potential their of Mercedes and BMW in regards to technology and innvoations. Anyone who is anyone, knows that BMW & Mercedes have developed more safety technology, engine technology, and design innovations than any other Luxury carmakers combined.

— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 12:10:12 PM | | Votes: 8   

Yes well BMW is a sports car maker and not a luxury car maker, there is a difference! The point of the faulty Merc systems is very relevant to this debate and any opportunity to protest against the visual pollution BMW generates is a call for ever moral man. Loud and crass was the design brief for the current generation of BMW's, make no mistake!

You think BMW is not part of popular culture? That it does not fit right in there with WWF, Jerry Springer, Britney Spears etc?

The rude attitude and aggressive nature of BMW drivers is promoted by the philosophy of the brand. Its like every as**ole in the world needs 3 things: Brainlessness a bad attitude and a BMW. It TRULY IS the automotive version of WWF and Springer.

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 12:30:11 PM | | Votes: -10   

then apparently you live in a bubble. How is it like the WWF? If anything, the japanesse car makers like to pretend of what they are not.

1. Infiniti pretends to have performance oriented cars or think that they can compete on an even playing field in the sports sedan category. When in fact the best thing they can sell a performance enthusiast is that they are less expensive, offer more gadgets & the " reliability card ". That is the basis of every arguement that you have. My refrigerator is reliable but that doesnt mean I enjoy it.

2. Lexus ... Very " reliable " and blasse. They dont do anything that is that exicting, except build quality & comfort ride cars. It is funny, that Lexus went into the performance market with the IS-F, but then the Lexus fans on here claim that it was not designed to compete with the M3. What is the point of the car?

BMW is about performance. They are the benchmark for Sport Sedan segment. Whether you like them or not, BMW sets the standard. " loud & crass was the design for every moral man " In your eyes only. I prefer to have boring refrigerators to drive around in. lol .. That is basically what you are saying. Again, what styling innovation has Lexus come up with that has been a formula that other manufacturers have influenced into their designs?

You are no different than other japanesse supporters on here. It is humourous that you bring up " pop culture " in your arguement. What is the slogan for BMW? " Joy " ... I agree that is what we think of in Pop Culture and what most strive for in life. How is that so wrong? How is it so wrong for a manufacturer to step out of the " box " and to take chances on styling and design? We see it every day with clothing designers and other fashions. Do you think that Versace sat there and wanted to be like everyone else? No they went on a limb. They are very much part of " pop culture " ... How come you only see the glass half full? Your arguements have no basis. WWF & Britney Spears is that all you have?

again, what design innovations has Lexus come up with that have influenced other car manufacturers into incorporating those features into their cars?

How bout Acura?

enough said, but I know you will work your magic and bring Britney Spears and the WWF into your arguement.

— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 1:16:28 PM | | Votes: 6   

Ok someone's brain is vere very small so I am going to spell it out.

I don't care about the Japanese cars! This is not about Japanese cars!

This is about BMW!

BMW are an appalling brand, appealing to tasteless small minded idiots! The ethos, the image, the philosophy, are all revolting!

BMW are popular, for the same reason, and with the same people, as the Jerry Springer show. The same MENTALITY required to appreciate the Jerry Springer show, is REQUIRED to appreciate BMW.

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 4:44:23 PM | | Votes: -3   

Madiba is just mad cause Michaeltaylor and gobama ran out of Grape cool-aide. It is okay. I am sure they will make some more next time.

— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 5:37:38 PM | | Votes: 1   

"What about lexus? What styling cues or innovations has Lexus come up with in the last 5 years, that you see trickling into other Luxury car companies?"

Ooh, ooh, call on me! Lexus pioneered the fashion-forward clear ricey light clusters on the RX300 in 2001! To date, they have made it onto such design masterpieces as the Chevrolet Equinox.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 9:10:42 PM | | Votes: 1   

"You think BMW is not part of popular culture? That it does not fit right in there with WWF, Jerry Springer, Britney Spears etc?"


Yeah..i know what you mean..

— stash84 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/25/2008 3:29:20 PM | | Votes: 1   

MadibaP well said. this is the reason why I would never own or want to own a BMW. It's not so much the brand itself but the type of individuals this marque attracts... the most aggressive, inconsiderate, reactionary and callous individuals we find on the roads today... BMW drivers don't just not care about their fellow drivers, they HATE you!

— sector (View Profile)

Posted on 4/25/2008 9:30:10 PM | | Votes: 1   

except the LS is better, look on any car review of LS and 7 series...
cue the deboosting, btw

— lexusrox123 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/23/2008 8:54:23 AM | | Votes: 3   

thats weird..because i like the LS but i dislike the 7 series..and lexus copied them??? doesnt make sense

the 5 series is nice tho

— stash84 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/25/2008 3:31:15 PM | | Votes: 2   

Speaking from first hand experience...

— 43IE (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 1:52:18 PM | | Votes: 2   

That's why he has a padded room and takes lot's of med's.... :-))

— simmonsdp (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 5:10:24 PM | | Votes: 2   

OMG there is EL34, 43LE, EI34, 43IE, LE34, EL43, etc...

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 9:12:02 PM | | Votes: 3   

annoying isn't it

— ILikeLambo (View Profile)

Posted on 4/24/2008 4:51:45 AM | | Votes: 2   

For the first time in how many years? In 2004 they were the 4th least reliable brand in the USA! The Current E has been published as being a car to avoid when buying second hand!

— MadibaP (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 11:51:56 AM | | Votes: -10   

The 2004 JD Power Dependability Study represents 2001 model year cars. Their reliability has improved greatly since then as the latest JD Power Dependability Study shows.

I just checked Edmunds' site and this is how JD Power rates the 2007 Mercedes E-Class for intitial quality:

2007
Initial Quality Ratings- Mechanical

Overall Quality - Mechanical 5/5
Powertrain Quality - Mechanical 3.5/5
Body & Interior Quality - Mechanical 5/5
Features and Accessories Quality - Mechanical 5/5

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2007/mercedesbenz/eclass/100752800/ratings_jdpower.html

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 12:13:59 PM | | Votes: 8   

And remember, MadibaP, some people like their cars unappliance like:


Fifth Place: 2007 Lexus LS460L
Fourth Place: 2006 Jaguar Super V-8
Third Place: 2006 BMW 750Li
Second Place: 2006 Audi A8L Quattro
First Place: 2007 Mercedes-Benz S550

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/chauffeur_showdown_comparison_test

-

Autoweek Review of the Mercedes CL65 AMG:

"The car is probably the best combination of comfort, power and handling of anything made."

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070606/FREE/70605009/1532/FREE

-

Autoweek on the Mercedes S550 4Matic:

"Yeah, this is about as close as you get to the perfect car."

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070425/FREE/70423007/1537/Columnists

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 12:24:24 PM | | Votes: 11   

you're behind madiba...shut up!

— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 7:47:04 PM | | Votes: 1   

The Mercedes-Benz S-Class and Audi A8 tied in JD Power's 2007 (2008?) Initial Quality Survey, both coming out as the best-built cars in the business.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 9:13:38 PM | | Votes: 3   

"you're behind madiba...shut up!"


Um, no I'm not but thanks for the laugh.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/23/2008 1:07:48 AM | | Votes: 2   

The AMG 6.3L is a "tractor" engine? Have you heard of the C63 AMG? The horsepower and torque in that car is mind-blowing.

— Anthony (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 1:40:48 PM | | Votes: 7   

Since when is the most powerfull atmospheric V8 in the world that revs to 7000RPM a tractor engine?

— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 1:42:45 PM | | Votes: 6   

Designing an engine that can propel a 5000 lb ML-class truck, and then bolting it on to all of their other passenger cars borders on crude engineering compared to the painstakingly well-thought out, exquisitely engineered power plants that propel the M cars.

In other words, do you see BMW putting an M engine on an X5? NO.

A truck will never carry an M badge. It’s just not right. It’s the automotive equivalent of blasphemy.

Having said that, I’d be lying if I didn’t admit to lusting after the V12 twin-turbo and its staggering 604 hp/738 lb-ft of torque. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

— weaponX (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 8:46:10 PM | | Votes: 1   

I don't think you know anything about the 6.2L AMG V8. The M engines are absolutely amazing, and the 6.2 is simply a masterpiece. As large as it is the thing is the perfect reincarnation of the classic muscle car engine, but with much more refinement (and power/torque).

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 9:15:20 PM | | Votes: 3   

If you’ve actually had more 1st hand experience on the 6.3L than me then maybe I’ll take what you say seriously.

— weaponX (View Profile)

Posted on 4/23/2008 8:40:52 AM | | Votes: 1   

The AMG engine shares nothing with Mercedes V8 engines. This is an in house design and AMG's first all AMG engine. I hardly think it is a tractor engine. If any car had a tractor engine it would be the viper or vette with their giant v10 and v8 ancient pushrod engines, but I'm not hating, they get the job done. Us Americans don't have any small displacement high power engines that could last like the Germans do, so we use good ol fashion low tech cubic inches or cc's if you are metric. Oh and Matrid or whatever your name is, I am not exactly a big fan of Bangles flame design on the 7 series but look at the trunk on the new camry and many other car makers. most did copy the trunk design including lexus. Just because Lexus has a great reliability doesn't mean BMW and Benz are trash. Lets see the Lexus run around the track with BMW and Benz then we'll see. And for you to say BMW is a Sports car maker and not a luxury car maker, what kid of crack did your momma put in your bottle when you were a kid. Have you ever seen the inside of a 7 series. Not saying they are the best but they are definitely luxury. they make luxury sport coupes, sedans and SUV's or SAV's in their terms. Lexus makes a fine car indeed but far to bland and boring to me. I don't want to fall asleep at the wheel while negotiating a corner. And you talk about the benz being on the avoid list. Hell every American made car is on that list. I have owned many BMW's and never had any problems, and one is about to hit 400,000 miles. It's an 86 325e. I bought it some years back as a get around car and it has been a great little car. drives great, handles well, good on gas and stylish. I have a Land Rover Disovery now and I still keep the little BMW because it has been too good of a car. and the inline 6 is just as smooth and silky, maybe even more so than most cars less than half its age. when it comes to durability it's hard to beat BMW's inline 6. just like the 2JZ engine from Toyota which found its way into the first GS 300, IS 300 and SC 300. that was a bullet proof engine. too bad no-one else makes a good inline 6 (save for Volvo, but thats FWD and competes better with Acura and the Front drive lexus's

— 85bmw745i (View Profile)

Posted on 4/25/2008 11:42:07 PM | | Votes: 1   

Poor boy... You must be allergic to innovations.

— TataPower (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 1:49:50 PM | | Votes: -4   

Yes, the BMW 3 series is light years ahead of the Lexus IS..

I have owned 4 BMW 3 series over the last 10 years and currently own a 2008 335i coupe. I test drove a Lexus IS 350 just for kicks before ordering my new 335i coupe and laughed all the way to the BMW dealership before placing the order for my new one..

How Lexus can claim that the IS 350 is anywhere close to the BMW 3 series is beyond me.. Quality of the IS 350's interior left much to be desired as did the generic exterior styling. The handling of the IS 350 was very sloppy and nowhere near the league of the 3 series.

— bmwman1963 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/22/2008 3:41:29 PM | | Votes: 4   

it was faster than the 3 series when it came out and it looks a million times better. the interior also looks better..and the leather is real..the nav is great..but yeah..the 3 series does handle better..

— stash84 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/25/2008 3:39:22 PM | | Votes: 1