New Audi A6, BMW 5-series rival from Borgward

These guys already went bankrupt once. History isn't on their side. You're an ass.

— pushrod27 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/18/2008 1:47:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

that lools similar to a spyker

— pacotacolol (View Profile)

Posted on 1/19/2008 8:58:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Jaguar's XF is the best in this class by a million miles...

— Jag_xfr (View Profile)

Posted on 1/18/2008 1:03:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6   

To go into this extremely competitive segment with your first product seems questionable. BMW and MB dominate this segment. Audi barely makes a dent and The "new" XF is going to flop because it weighs as much as S Class with low tech engines and a joke for a backseat. Maybe Borgward has a better chance in this segment than Jaguar.

— lyonboy (View Profile)

Posted on 1/18/2008 1:46:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

lyonboy: actually Audi sells more cars in Germany than either BMW or Mercedes!

— philippz (View Profile)

Posted on 1/18/2008 2:29:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

No cares whether you need to know or not.

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 1/19/2008 1:30:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

I am talking about where I live, the United States, the single largest and most lucrative market in the world. Audi is struggling in the US with every carline down except for the TT and the R8. Without the Q7 Audi in the US would have been significantly down for 07. In the US Audi only outsells lowly Jaguar.

— lyonboy (View Profile)

Posted on 1/18/2008 4:54:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Dream on when your driving your little Tata!

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 1/19/2008 1:29:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I didn't know that either, but I don't have a hard time believing it - where I live in England the A6 is a very popular car, and doesn't have the taxi-driver reputation of the E class or the (sorry) slightly negative associations that come with the 5 series.

Audi outsells Merc in Britain, and is nearly level pegging with BMW, but I don't know model by model breakdown.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 1/19/2008 4:45:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Audi is significantly cheaper than Mercedes and BMW in many markets.. the same can be said for Lexus.. not saying they don't make great cars (because IMO the cars are only marginally better or worse than each other) but as you'd expect price is a major factor in sales numbers.

— rybo (View Profile)

Posted on 1/19/2008 5:08:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5   

I would love to see the stats on Europe vs US, also the definition of Europe has grown with the EU and and the fall of Russia. so you could very well be right. I ask you this, would Audi rather be #1 in the US or Europe? My guess is the US because the model mix here is for more expensive models with alot more equipment. I travel and in my experience with recent trips to Russia and Germany you see alot of Audis and most appear to be FWD not quattro, I would be interested in knowing what percentage of EU Audis are FWD. One other comment is that in Europe VW has a much better reputation than in the US and that should help Audi as a logical step-up from a VW.

— lyonboy (View Profile)

Posted on 1/19/2008 7:38:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

The future is Europe and the emerging markets. The US is no longer as profitable and the Europeans are paying for Americans to be able to get Audis, BMWs, and MBs at such low prices considering the low value of the dollar. This is unlikely to continue in the future for European consumers to subsidize the American prices.

That said, here is the data for Europe per model up to 10/07 (breakdown for 11 and 12/07 not published yet):

(Make/Model: Oct 2007: 10 months 2007)

BMW 5-Series: 11141 100,036

MB E-Class: 9099 94,492

Audi A6: 12361 114,892

Jaguar S-Type: 550 7,553

--------------------------------

BMW 7-Series: 826 7,182

MB S-Class: 1715 18,928

Audi A8: 854 8,250

Jaguar XJ: 301 3,039

Lexus LS: 208 2,129


SOURCE: Automotive News Europe Vol.13 No. 1

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 1/19/2008 9:15:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

As of 11/07 total European sales for premium makes breaks down as follows:

BMW: 645457
MB: 767205
Audi: 612959
Lexus: 36840
Jag: 30996

Same soure: Automotive News Europe

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 1/19/2008 9:22:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

amazinIdiot, you asked for that data and so I will provide it. The Audi A6 outsells the Mercedes-Benz E-class and BMW 5-series worldwide.

Please find the link to the article below, and by the way I posted this before twice but being the Idiot that you are, I'm not surprised you didn't check.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/10/magazines/fortune/taylor_fordaudi.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008011105

As they were more than happy to report, Audi recorded its 12th successive year of growth in 2007, with sales of 950,000 cars worldwide vs. 700,000 as recently as 2004. The Audi A6, its middle-of-the line sedan, outsells the BMW 5-series and the Mercedes E-class.

Yet Audi has now established itself as a legitimate competitor to Mercedes and BMW by developing a line of cars from sport coupes to luxury sedans and SUVs that share a consistent philosophy about design and engineering. As Stadler puts it, they are "sophisticated, progressive, and understated."

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 1/19/2008 10:46:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

It is amazing that ones already know the car won't compete successfully with Audi, MB, and BMW, and the car is not even out yet. I welcome the competition much like Caddy who is successfully bringing something of a different flavor to the table.

— keyzi747 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/19/2008 11:55:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Who said it will not compete? How about that this new car is going into the lions den. This is one tough market segment.

— lyonboy (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 12:06:02 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Borgward is geared for Europe. They have a heritage in Europe that Germans recognize. They will not sell any number near the established Grand Dams of European premium luxury, but its good to see a passion for the automobile like this. Wouldn't it be great if Packard resurfaced someday. Not these cookie cutter faceless cars we see on the road daily.

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 3:37:35 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

"like somebody else said on this site, the audis are considerably cheaper"

But THEY AREN'T. What about that is so hard to comprehend? You are absolutely bi-polar. When it comes to BMW, you are intelligent and somewhat interesting to talk to. When it comes to Audi, you're as thick as a brick and you have no sense of what's really true. I really would like to know why it's so hard for you to accept Audi being a very successful, innovative luxury car brand.

Just for you... UK prices...

BMW 320d ES - £24,910
Audi A4 2.0TDI SE - £23,200

BMW 325d SE - £27,885
Audi A4 2.7TDI SE - £27,650

BMW 330d SE - £30,285
Audi A4 3.0TDI SE - £29,500

BMW 330i SE - £29,840
Audi A4 3.2 SE - £28,850

BMW 520d SE - £27,190
Audi A6 2.0TDI SE - £26,470

BMW 530d SE - £34,960
Audi A6 3.0TDI SE - £32,895

BMW 530i SE - £34,610
Audi A6 3.2 quattro - £33,975

BMW 540i SE - £39,045
Audi A6 4.2 quattro - £43,925
BMW 550i SE- £45,745

BMW 730i SE - £53,395
Audi A8 3.2 quattro - £52,970

BMW 740i - £57,795
Audi A8 4.2 quattro - £60,070
BMW 750i - £62,345

BMW 730d SE - £51,850
Audi A8 3.0TDI quattro - £50,165

Yes, the Audis are less expensive, but they're all only £235-2,000 less than their BMW counterparts. I wouldn't say that's a truly compelling reason to buy the Audi instead, especially considering their monthly rates.

Enjoy.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 1:13:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Back up your claims! You write like a moron so you must be one. You have no working knowledge of anything related to Audi and stoop to fabricating lies to massage some inferiority complex you suffer from considering your strange psycho-obsession in critizing Audi. I doubt you ever in sat in an Audi yet alone driven one. Somehow, I assume your job depends on something BMW, so your relevancy in terms of opinions is less than credible and you lack any form of critical abilities in your arguments that I have noticed. If someone points out a fact based off statisical information where do you assume you can dispute it. It is one thing to be bias another to be subjective given concrete data. Go back to your third grade classroom and learn to reason.

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 1/21/2008 12:31:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I'm sorry amazinIdiot, but you can't accept the fact that there are more Audi A6s sold worldwide than BMW 5-series and Mercedes-Benz E-classes.

The Audi A6 is a true winner.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 10:58:49 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Whether you factor in price or not, the Audi outsells the BMW. HAHAHAHAHAH, looks like BMW's 5-series is a loser of a car compared to Audi's winning A6.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 11:00:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Audis reliance on FWD will start holding it back. Europe up to now has been very accpeting of FWD with most Audis sold in Europe being FWD. Americans are reluctant to buy a frontheavy mid and full size car and now Europe seems to be turrning that way also. Word that Alfa Romeo is coming out with many RWD cars in many price categories should make Audi a little nervous. I believe Audi is going to have to end its FWD/Quattro only strategy. I think an RWD A6 could be great.

— lyonboy (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 1:17:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Okay Star, BMW and Mercedes are in a completely different league how???

The A4 is competitively priced with the C-class.

The A5 is more than the 328i coupe

The Q7 4.2 Premium is more than the X5 4.8

The R8 is more than the M6.

Keep wishing Star....... You can't accept the fact that the Audi A6 outsells the BMW 5-series and the Mercedes-Benz E-class worldwide.

I don't care about price or not. To me The Audi is a competitor and most would share my opinion, not yours. So the bottom line is this:

The Audi A6 outsells the Mercedes-Benz E-class and BMW 5-series worldwide. You can say what you want about the price and the competition, but facts are facts.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 2:34:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Audi RWD/Quattro would not only dominate the segment, but outclass even mercedes, The BMW's are more about sport rides, The design team focus's much more on the front fascia, and ride this is obvious, adn what bmw is known for and praised for. Sitting in an A8 W12 vs. a 760 speaks for itself on a competitive level.

— EnvyofyouRS5 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 3:55:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I don't think Audi will be developing new RWD platform architecture - it's only a small segment that suffers.
The A3 is fine with FWD/Quattro - it's a small car and RWD is expensive and heavy.
The A4 is again fine with FWD in base models, and quattro for higher end models.
The A6 is the one that suffers the most, along with the A5. RWD would be a better option in the A6 and A5 (I know the A5 is from the A4) as they are larger, more expensive cars, and all major competitors are RWD. People don't generally want FWD A6's - in Britain one can choose between a 3.2 FWD or quattro, and FWD models lose much more money on depreciation as demand is so low.
Quattro is standard fit on the A8 (bar one, cheap model, which no one buys as the diesel is AWD)
The Q7/Q5 are AWD.
The TT does very well with FWD and quattro, and has no need to change.

So making RWD would really benefit only 2 cars, one low volume, and neither the volume sellers.
And as they now have the new modular platform (A4/A5) which will be used across the range, I don't expect a RWD Audi to be around for the next 5 years.
It will be interesting to see what they do with the A7 (if it happens) as that will be a large, 6 series sized coupe, and FWD would be totally unacceptable.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 4:39:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

bmwdrv, you said it yourself. "Given the same features and specs." I never said given the same features and specs in regards to pricing. Audi's A4 is competitive with the Benz C-class. The A5 is more than the 328i coupe. The Q7 4.2 Premium is more than the BMW X5 4.8 and the R8 is more than any current BMW "M" offering.

Audi attempting to gain cache? Maybe to you. Otherwise that is a purely subjective statement. Do you have any facts to back up your claim?

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 9:21:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Think of a list of 50 great automotive marques that are no longer with us - Duesenberg, Packard, Hispano-Suiza, Delahaye, Talbot-Lago, Isotta-Fraschini, etc. Trust me, for 99.99% of automotive enthusiasts around the world, Borgward is NOT on that list! Why bother resurrecting a mediocrity?

— Audiphile (View Profile)

Posted on 1/20/2008 9:57:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1