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Tags: Jaguar XF, BMW 5-Series

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New Jaguar BEATS the BMW 5-Series in Latest Review?
When I saw the cover of AutoCar my eyes almost popped out of my head when the headline stated that 'The 5-Series has been on top for 20 years. Not any more!'

We have yet to drive the new Jag and we hear it's quite good, but better than a 5-Series?

We find that VERY hard to believe and wonder if AutoCar's editors have been taking a page out of what the American buff books (Motor Trend, C&D, Road & Track, etc.) have been doing since forever...giving the crown to the hometown car, even if it isn't better because of ad commitments.

What are your thoughts?

Could it actually be a 5-Series beater?
New Jaguar BEATS the BMW 5-Series in Latest Review?



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MonkMonk - 1/24/2008 2:22:30 AMView My AgentSpace
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I don't think I'm biased or anything, but no...
good effort from Jag, but I still cherish my BMW handling and sportiness too much

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pacotacololpacotacolol - 1/24/2008 7:31:22 AMView My AgentSpace
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Ilove the XF. I love jaguar all together.


SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 1/24/2008 3:18:03 PMView My AgentSpace
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I will bet my life that the Jag isn't better.


DaHarderDaHarder - 1/24/2008 6:35:39 PM
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showtime,

You might want to fill out this form, as you'll probably be requiring their services soon... Very Soon!

http://www.neptunesociety.com/maillist.asp?loc=mainmenu


MadibaPMadibaP - 1/25/2008 1:45:42 AM
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You mean you prefer the pointlessness of the BMW.

This segment is the what segment? oh yes LUXURY segment. Now the bmw goes faster: so what how stupid. It handles better if you race it to an extreme: What an idiot thing to do. It look revolting does not have a magic ride and a cheap interior at this level. So what does it doe right?

Unless you were born and bred in a trailer park and won the lottery the bmw is the looser.


Agent004Agent004 - 1/25/2008 1:47:09 AMView My AgentSpace
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Me thinks AutoCar hasn't actually driven a 5 Series.


DaHarderDaHarder - 1/25/2008 1:12:48 PM
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004,

Have You Considered Other Activities?

The Aforementioned 'Thinking' May Not Be Your Forte...


SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 1/26/2008 3:18:59 PMView My AgentSpace
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haha very funny DaHarder...listen man, i have nothing against Jaguar. they just haven't had much to offer up until now, it's that simple. I want to see them do much better though but it's very odd that they suddenly get it right with the XF let alone beat the 5 series.

The XF concept looked so good but they killed it with the production model. So nothing fancy about the looks. They said it would have an aluminum chasis and they made it steel instead. on and on and on...

If it handles better, brakes better, accelerates better, steers better, and has a better ride at the same time then I'll give it the crown, but since when were they known to be best at all this? Never.


DaHarderDaHarder - 1/26/2008 11:29:15 PM
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"If it handles better, brakes better, accelerates better, steers better, and has a better ride at the same time then I'll give it the crown, but since when were they known to be best at all this? Never. "

Never - Huh?

Jaguar sedans were considered the best handling/performing sedans in the world long before BMW ever even considered development of the 2002, 3-series, 5-series et al.

The 1960's Jaguar S-Type and Mark II were both unlike anything ever conceived/seen/driven in the sedan/saloon market in their day, as were the 1970's Jaguar XJ6 (Series III) sedans.

Know This - Jaguar invented the great handling luxury sport saloon!

Helpful Hint: Next Time Do a Bit Of Research Before You Post Automotive Untruths!


SHOWTIMESHOWTIME - 1/28/2008 4:04:54 PMView My AgentSpace
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ok ok, I'll admit that "never" is a strong word to use. 1960's was way before my time although with a bit of research I'd be able to find out some truth that you mentioned.

But since in my time around, because they haven't set any records , I quite frankly don't care what they did in the 60's. All I know is for the past 20 years BMW has held the title for "great handling luxury sport saloon" as u call it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd buy a Jaguar for its unique name and style and just to be different because you don't see too many on the road. However, I do have a problem with a magazine article stating that it drives and performs better than the 5 series sport.

Like I said before, if the testing records prove that the Jaguar XF outperforms the 5 series, then I will be convinced. It's that simple. As for driving feel and pleaseure, I'll leave it up to myself with a test drive. In the end, I highly doubt that the Jag will win in either case.

Now if Aston Martin owned Jaguar, then I'd start to believe in it more but that's a whole other topic.


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 1/24/2008 1:55:46 PM
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that's a 2008 550i sport on the cover. I'm surprised they didn't test the 535i against the XF since the power output is "officially" very close between the two. However the 535i is only 0.1 seconds slower 0-60 than the 550i and handles slightly better (and gets better fuel economy). It's also a lot less expensive than either the 550i or XF V8 (in England anyway), despite offering much higher performance than the XF.

English magazines and shows do tend to favor English vehicles. I saw the XF at NAIAS yesterday, it looked decent. Interior wasn't as nice as I thought it would be from the pictures, the wood looked very plastic and there were a lot of switches and stuff that didn't look particularly upscale. Still, looked interesting enough to make it worth a look if shopping for something in this segment.

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Agent001Agent001 - 1/24/2008 2:56:59 PMView My AgentSpace
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Might not be...in Europe and in the UK you can get the 500 sport kit on lower models

001

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Jagexpert2Jagexpert2 - 1/24/2008 5:57:52 PMView My AgentSpace
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Not bland in person.

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JRobUSCJRobUSC - 1/24/2008 6:32:05 PM
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fine, the bodykit might not mean it HAS to be a 550i, but the article itself states they were comparing the non-supercharged XF to the 550i SE since the base prices were within hundreds of pounds of one another. So it would stand to reason the photo is a 550i. And regardless I still think they should have used a 535i for the comparison.

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pushrod27pushrod27 - 1/24/2008 7:53:49 AM
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No, the XF does not have the XK's aluminum platform, as its styling suggests. The XF is literally the new S-type, as it uses the outgoing S-type's chassis.

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tattedtwicetattedtwice - 1/24/2008 8:50:36 AM
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You arent deserving of using obama's name in any regard, since he, unlike you, has a brain.

The 550 isn't that fast? So, 5 seconds flat to 60, and deep into the 13's isnt fast? OK, so using that 'logic' that means none of your beloved tarted-up toyotas are fast either.

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bulldogzbulldogz - 1/24/2008 10:30:58 AM
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"...The 550 isn't that fast? So, 5 seconds flat to 60, and deep into the 13's isnt fast? OK, so using that 'logic' that means none of your beloved tarted-up toyotas are fast either."

ummm, the IS350 AND IS-F can do sub 5 secs.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2008 10:52:53 AMView My AgentSpace
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Check your latest issue of CR... BMW 5 and Audi A6 are both more reliable than Lexis GS.

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ym73ym73 - 1/25/2008 4:22:36 PM
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The XF uses the S-types platiform, but the steel was reinforced to make it more rigid. The suspension, gearbox and engine are the same one's used in the XK

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I95SPEEDINGTICKETSI95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 1/24/2008 2:38:03 AM
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What qualities of the vehicles were compared ?

Power, Handling, Performance, Weight ?

Or some BS Feel Good Factor ?

Quote from one of the Sunday Times' Reviewers
" So far so good, but how does the XF stand up against rivals? A V8 Premium Luxury XF carries a price tag of £45,500, compared with £45,745 for the BMW 550i SE. Both the XF and 550i use normally aspirated V8 engines, but the BMW’s uses a 4.8 litre unit compared to a 4.2 litre workhorse in the Jag. Not surprising, then, that the BMW delivers more power (362bhp v 294bhp). Jaguar quotes a 0 to 62mph time of 6.5secs while BMW claims 5.3secs (both cars with automatic transmission). Yet it is the BMW that uses less fuel on all quoted cycles and emits less CO2 as well. On paper then, the BMW triumphs. "

So again on what did they base their analysis ?

I think it was based on the newest vehicle.

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bmwdrvrbmwdrvr - 1/24/2008 11:34:56 AM
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yeah but i think the 550i is the best in class but it competes with the SV8 model of the XF, the Jag also gets better EPA numbers with the 4.2 non supercharged. Price wise the 550i is still more expensive than the SV8 Jag so it just depends on what they are comparing so you have 420hp compared to 360hp not 294


I95SPEEDINGTICKETSI95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 1/24/2008 12:01:05 PM
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bmwdrvr

Cant you Effing Read ?

In thr UK the BMW 550i is priced £275 more than the NA 4.2 V8 XF.

"So far so good, but how does the XF stand up against rivals? A V8 Premium Luxury XF carries a price tag of £45,500, compared with £45,745 for the BMW 550i SE. Both the XF and 550i use normally aspirated V8 engines, but the BMW’s uses a 4.8 litre unit compared to a 4.2 litre workhorse in the Jag. Not surprising, then, that the BMW delivers more power (362bhp v 294bhp). Jaguar quotes a 0 to 62mph time of 6.5secs while BMW claims 5.3secs (both cars with automatic transmission). Yet it is the BMW that uses less fuel on all quoted cycles and emits less CO2 as well. On paper then, the BMW triumphs."

If you have a valid argument with the paragraph aove then state your case, dont just produce idiotic statements with no basis on Logic.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2008 4:47:59 PMView My AgentSpace
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Okay, but in the US (where bmwdrvr lives), the XF SV8 will be a bit under $60K and just over $60K fully-loaded. The 550i is seemingly competitively priced at $58,500... but load it up, and you're over $75K.


Jagexpert2Jagexpert2 - 1/24/2008 5:54:57 PMView My AgentSpace
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There you go again. If 100 people tell you something is better
( I95SPEEDINGTICKETS)you will believe the 101st that says its not.


bmwdrvrbmwdrvr - 1/24/2008 6:49:50 PM
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wow, how COMMON of you to say that. 1st 1955 the 550i starts at almost 59,000 a fully loaded 420hp SV8 XF costs about 65,000 a similiar priced 550i is a 70,000+ vehicle so whos the idiot. Instead of posting Common comments, that show you o nothing about cars, do your research and than come back and try again not to mention to add wheels the size of the SV8 to the 550i will cost some 4-5,000 more to the price and thats for 19 inch wheels taking the price alot closer to 80 grand, compared to about 65 on the jag.


Chaos29Chaos29 - 1/24/2008 2:39:46 AM
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I don't know much about "Hyndai", but I believe even the cheap cars can handle very well on everyday road. I don't know, nver ridden it, but a BMW,LExus,Merc, etc... are all capable.

My take: Reliability is number one especially when performance is within margin of one another. Looks is as important and functionality. Handling should be in the back seat nowaday. How often can you drive to the limit of these cars nowaday? I mean, I can no longer do 100mph in a 45mph curve. It's fun, but now...there isn't enough space for that.



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adamsaf723adamsaf723 - 1/24/2008 4:24:38 AM
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Isn't the Jag moreso rivalling STS and GS350... BMW and Mercedes are a little more road aggressive to really be compared to Jag. The A6 could probably be another comparison because of how nice their interiors are.

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JUGNUJUGNU - 1/24/2008 5:05:01 AMView My AgentSpace
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Definately the Fresh and plush Jaguar for me. BMW 5 Series looks dated and the interior is very ordinary (I love M5 though).

and if u need more power opt for the performance version R.

After all everyone don't have to make a car to DIRECTLY rival BMW's or any other for that matter.

I mean 300BHP XF very much rival 360BHP 550i. If u want more power go for XKR. Now see BMW don't have a rival for that (500BHP M% is not a direct rival).

JUGNU

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2008 4:48:52 PMView My AgentSpace
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"After all everyone don't have to make a car to DIRECTLY rival BMW's or any other for that matter."

Exactly, so why do you always bash Audi for being "in between" the BMW competition?


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 1/24/2008 6:37:46 PM
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why wouldn't a 300hp XF compare better with a 300hp 535i? After all, the purpose of the 3.0TT engine was to offer 4.0L V8 power in a lighter, smaller, more fuel efficient package. It would seem to be a pretty perfect comparison, and I'm guessing Jaguar thinks so too since in the U.S. they're priced similarly. They might not be in England where apparently the naturally aspirated XF V8 is priced against the 550i, but they are here.


MaindrianPaceMaindrianPace - 1/24/2008 5:27:43 AM
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I'm glad they recognise that for the last 20 years the 5 series as bean better than the equivalent Mercs, Audis, Lexi, Jaguar, Cadillac, Chrysler, etc. etc.

Personally I'd still take the 5er, it looks better, and goes better - I'm English, supply the Automotive Industry, my dad worked in British car manufacturing most his life - but there is NO WAY, I'd ever get misty eyed of a Jag, especially not this one.

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hashoohashoo - 1/24/2008 6:13:09 AM
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never!!! Q:who is jaguar?! A:ford
is ford better than bmw?

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Jagexpert2Jagexpert2 - 1/25/2008 9:54:48 PMView My AgentSpace
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They aren't fords you idiot.


farabira1farabira1 - 1/24/2008 6:33:07 AM
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Who cares about if you are English, or not, you have your own opinion and it matters little that someone british may not like jaguar, because to be frank, jaguar became famous and is still cherished by buyers mostly outside of the British mainland, although i know how most british people absolutely adore the jaguar brand, you seem to be an anomaly "Maindrianpace". And please to all those BMW popsuckers, you guys are getting thrashed from every direction. Until recent years, Mercedes E class was the only real challenge, in past 5-6 years though Audi A6 and Lexus GS and to some degree even Infiniti M45 have eaten a lot of market share that was solely 5 series territory. And now the iconic Jaguar has dropped a bazuuka rocket on the heart of the 5 series, and it has done so by targeting on the weak points of the 5 sereis, and by matching the good points of the BMW. First of all it outclasses the 5 series by a mile in design and desirability, quality of material, especially in the interior, BMW 5 series uses hard plastics and little wood on their dash, a very cold place to be in compared to the superlative and magnificently modern XF blue tonic interior. And by using XK suspension setup with the already excellent chasis carried over from the S type (the prev gen S type drove as good as the 5 series, ask anyone who has driven both cars and anyone could tell that unless you take it to the track, both cars were even in driving dynamics and handling) the XF is looking to match the 5 sereis' awesome driving personna. And as an overall package, the XF has way more standard features with standard GPS, rear backup camera, heated and powered seats and steering wheel, and off course leather and your choice of wood in all trim levels. And besides, the XF will cut the BMW in half in terms of looks alone, why would i even bother about a 5 series when i can have aston martin like looks (the XF looks like a vanquish from the back) and off course classic jaguar cues from the front(the grille from Old XJ6) and guys i have seen the car live, and it does not look like the pics from the front, it is actually very aggressive and coupeish looking from the front as well.

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MaindrianPaceMaindrianPace - 1/24/2008 6:52:19 AM
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My point is as suggested by the article, Autocar (being a UK publication) maybe be biased towards their own (as are german mags to german cars etc.). I was trying to point out that not all English people would necessarily be as fond of a Jaguar as Autocar.

In terms of styling, subjective. I like the 5 series exterior especially in sport guise, i think it is one of the best looking cars in BMW's line-up. As far as the interior goes, I like the BMW's interior... years ago I learned to drive in british car, with smooth soft plastic and walnut trim, a Rover 214GSi! It was rubbish! Personally I don't care much for the "cosy" interior, a car is machine, a tool, a weapon... :). It should be an enviroment that keeps you focused, not one for relaxation.

All I'm saying is I prefer the 5er.


farabira1farabira1 - 1/24/2008 7:34:15 AM
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yeah i can tell, BMW sells most of its cars outside US and Germany in GB. So i think i know the nature of UK buyers. They are pretty neutral and judge a product based on it's offerings that matches a buyers demands.

And i have always said in autospies that BMW has followed its philosophy of a car being a machine(the ultimate driving "machine") into the interior by making it look like the interior instrumentlike rather than like a cozy rocking chair with walnut table like trims.

But you really don't understand the point of this Jag XF or why people like me are liking it so much. This XF does not make the interior look like kitchen top dark woods of old XJs but actually looks very techno gizmo like, the interior looks to me like my motorola razr dial buttons with azure blue lighting to distinguish the buttons, and a knob as a gear changer, how cool is that. You don't seem to have even seen the XF.

And also the exterior, regardless of what all the no sayers have to say, i have seen the car in flesh and for me it is very uber class and exquisitely modern.

You see my point, why i like the XF: simple. It is quite modern.

And from your objections to XF,"I learned to drive in british car, with smooth soft plastic and walnut trim, a Rover 214GSi! It was rubbish! Personally I don't care much for the "cosy" interior" it seems as if like you are still thinking that the dark brown and sheepishly put together stock of wood and bumlike seats of old jaguar are still part of this XF, it almost seems as if like you are confusing the Jaguar of OLD with the rather super sleek XF, which contains none of the old hatch rubbishness of those prev gen jags. Please clear from your mind the preconceived notion of old jaguars that is stopping you from looking at the XF for what it is, and then you will see why so many like me think that this car is awesome.


MaindrianPaceMaindrianPace - 1/24/2008 9:19:42 AM
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Believe me, I am well aware of what the Jaguar is like, our company makes 20 or 30 components for Jaguar Cars.. so I KNOW what goes into them.

Please understand I am not attacking the Jaguar, merely stating why I find the 5 series a more attractive car. Things such as the pop-up dial for gear changers, novelty lighting and rotating vents etc are all very nice if you like that kind of thing, and I'm sure it will sell well for Jaguar.


MichaelTaylorMichaelTaylor - 1/24/2008 7:43:02 AM
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pushrod27pushrod27 - 1/24/2008 7:51:37 AM
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you are as dumb as the day is long.

as it stands, the Lexus GS is nothing but an underperforming (sales & handling) 5 series wannabe.


pushrod27pushrod27 - 1/24/2008 8:22:02 AM
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And the XF looks 10 times better than the GS


Htay7500Htay7500 - 1/24/2008 2:53:12 PM
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MichaelTaylor: maybe your making ignorant statements like always.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2008 4:50:43 PMView My AgentSpace
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AND the 5 Series is more reliable than the GS.

Seeing how reliable the XJ is, I wouldn't be surprised if the XF was, too.


StickShiftCamryStickShiftCamry - 1/24/2008 10:48:20 PM
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Nope, when the lease on the '06 530i SMG expires, i'm gettin myself a GS 350 w/ 22's!!. It's seriously more reliable than a 5, lol. I have one, maybe it's becuz of the SMG, but i have to worry about letting someone borrow it, it has been unpredictable lately.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2008 11:03:36 PMView My AgentSpace
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Okay, so your personal experience says otherwise.

However, you haven't had a GS yet, so how can you be sure?

Anyway, CR used to say my car has "poor" reliability, but I haven't had any problems with it. Then it was upgraded to "average" and now it's recommended. That's more like it.


KingerKinger - 1/25/2008 4:39:55 AM
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The newer breed of Lexus haven't exactly being living up to Lexus reputation for quality. The IS220d we get over here in Europe has been having some issues: http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=47474


bmwfan1513bmwfan1513 - 1/24/2008 7:46:50 AM
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The 5 Series is so much better!

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_43LE_43LE - 1/24/2008 8:24:46 AM
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No surprise, the 550i also lost to the M45 in a Car and Driver reviews:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/11738/2007-bmw-550i-v-infiniti-m45-v-lexus-gs450h-v-m-b-e550.html


and Road and Track (545 vs M45)

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=2221


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tattedtwicetattedtwice - 1/24/2008 8:53:31 AM
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Yep, never mind that the bloated nissan got its ass handed to it, and that the 5 ran circles around it, or that both 'wins' came as a result of being cheaper.


M35MTM35MT - 1/24/2008 9:51:36 AMView My AgentSpace
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wow, you're a douchebag tattedtwice


_43LE_43LE - 1/24/2008 10:02:17 AM
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"Yep, never mind that the bloated nissan got its ass handed to it, and that the 5 ran circles around it, or that both 'wins' came as a result of being cheaper. "

Actually,quite the contrary:

"Infiniti has definitely brought its A game to the sports-sedan ranks...Had it been comparably equipped (navigation, premium audio, intelligent cruise control, etc.), its as-tested price would have fallen in between the Lexus and BMW. That, however, would not have changed the outcome."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=2221&page_number=4


Also:

"First, there is its character. The logbook commentary seemed to favor the Infiniti for its eagerness — a light steering touch with good feedback, brisk turn-in, quick transitions, a general sense of being quick on its feet that made the Bimmer’s responses seem a tad heavy and, well, Teutonic."

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/11743/2007-infiniti-m45-sport.html

I guess that you did not read the articles...go back to school and learn how to do it.


bulldogzbulldogz - 1/24/2008 11:25:41 AM
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"..I guess that you did not read the articles...go back to school and learn how to do it."

Honestly, she's just like that Rosko woman, another "anything Japanese is a cheap imitation of German superiority". Even though they've never driven an Infiniti or Lexus, they're just threatened that someone came along and took marketshare away, so they go into attackmode.

I've owned all of the lux division cars: Audi S4, M5, 330CiC,E-class, GS450H, no Infiniti as of yet. Have friends with most of the same classes of vehicle and they all have no allegiance to one brand or nationality of car. We just buy what suits us at that time, or think twice about bad experiences with some makes, and also compare notes.



bimmerbimmer - 1/24/2008 11:36:33 AMView My AgentSpace
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They said: <<BMW 550 - The Verdict: A flawless driving machine diminished by pricey options and an infernal device.>>

So, BMW lost to m45 because of its price (so they want a 550 priced as the m45 ?? come on !!!) and the idrive (when will this stop i wonder ??) ?



_43LE_43LE - 1/24/2008 11:42:51 AM
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"Had it been comparably equipped (navigation, premium audio, intelligent cruise control, etc.), its as-tested price would have fallen in between the Lexus and BMW. That, however, would not have changed the outcome."


_43LE_43LE - 1/24/2008 12:00:28 PM
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For the same price I am interested to know what Infiniti could offer.


Htay7500Htay7500 - 1/24/2008 2:51:17 PM
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I'd top anything over a 5. M included.


Htay7500Htay7500 - 1/24/2008 4:48:06 PM
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I'd have the M because (and I'll admit, I love BMWs because of the 3-series, but the badge buys these cars nowadays along with other euros):

-Nice interior

-No snob appeal

-decent looks

go ahead and deboost me!! there should be more people like 43LE and bulldogz!



S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 1/24/2008 4:52:36 PMView My AgentSpace
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"For the same price I am interested to know what Infiniti could offer."

!

And this is why Infiniti should have a performance arm...


_43LE_43LE - 1/25/2008 8:11:43 AM
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"Had it been comparably equipped (navigation, premium audio, intelligent cruise control, etc.), its as-tested price would have fallen in between the Lexus and BMW. That, however, would not have changed the outcome."


weaponXweaponX - 1/24/2008 8:38:53 AM
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Didn't even know Jaguar had a new car.

They still in business?!

You're right, must be ad commitments.

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DaHarderDaHarder - 1/24/2008 1:10:58 PM
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weaponX,

Wouldn't Have Been Better To Remain Silent, And (Possibly) Be Thought A Fool, Than To Post Such Tripe, and Remove ALL DOUBTS?


4x4rules4x4rules - 1/24/2008 5:03:27 PM
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no they didnt go out of business, they were bought by ford

and their quality improved.


weaponXweaponX - 1/25/2008 9:47:02 AM
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It’s hard to be thought of a fool when one doesn’t own, or even think of owning a Jaguar.

They’re owned by Ford….well that’s confidence inspiring.


DaHarderDaHarder - 1/25/2008 3:13:24 PM
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Why Continue With This?

With Each And Every Post, You Dig Yourself a Deeper and Deeper Hole...

"Tata Motors (TTM) will be named on 21 Dec 2007 as the winning bidder in the auction for Jaguar and Land Rover, according to a report in Britain's Birmingham Post newspaper. Tata will pay £1 billion, or about $2 billion, for the two Ford Motor (F) luxury auto brands, said the newspaper, which is based near Jaguar and Land Rover's home in the British midlands."

In Summary: Ford (effectively) No Longer Owns Jaguar.


tattedtwicetattedtwice - 1/24/2008 8:57:27 AM
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I wonder if this comparo is like the M/T comparo between the 335 and the altima coupe...uh, I mean the g37, where the 3 kicked its ass in everything from acceleration to handling to MPG's and even emissions, yet the cover proclaimed "The King is Dead." In other words, I'd bet Jag took this one because it's newer and cheaper.

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M35MTM35MT - 1/24/2008 9:52:52 AMView My AgentSpace
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Different platform f*** face. Learn something about cars before shooting your mouth off. We should have a filter for teenagers who think they're special because they wack off in the back seat of their mommy's 328i.


bmwdrvrbmwdrvr - 1/24/2008 11:33:05 AM
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there should be a filter for people on here that get that angry about cars they have talk like that grow up


jasaerojasaero - 1/24/2008 9:25:46 AM
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farabira1 seems to be the only one posting comments here who has any idea what the new XF really is and he didn't even point out the most important part that seems to be causing the most grief here. This car DOES perform as well as a 5 series from EVERY review I have read. It's not as comfort focused as the car it replaces and actually borrow the suspension from the XK as he mentions. The BIGGEST thing not being mentioned here has to do with the lack of understanding about the engine options. The 300hp V8 may come in the car at 550 sorta starting price, but with the standard equipment included you could opt for the 420hp supercharged version by the time you added the same content to the 550. 420hp is PLENTY to keep up with a 550 and I am pretty sure the SC version is even more of a track attack car. It probably schools the 5 series and still costs the same once you option them similarly. And, to anyone with eyes, the Jag is just a more beautiful car. For these prices though, I would rather have a 2009 CTS-V.

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KZ258KZ258 - 1/24/2008 9:27:07 AM
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not surprised. the interior and exterior of the jag should be enough to beat the 5 series alone

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1995e341995e34 - 1/24/2008 9:33:38 AM
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the jag is nice. it's lame there's no i-6, though. if i were getting this large a vehicle, i may be stuck getting a v8. but bmw offers the 535i. a 300hp turbo i-6 + manual tranny is far more appealing to me than an automatic transmission + v8.

volvo uses an i-6 in their new s80, i'm sure they would be happy to share with jag. and i'm sure european sales will require it.

the new kid on the block intrigues me, but they've got to overwhelm me before i'm swayed from the 5-series.

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jasaerojasaero - 1/24/2008 9:42:36 AM
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You should looking into this new XF. It is a car that could overwhelm anyone not well informed about it. It's more can than most are going to expect.


BFABSBFABS - 1/24/2008 9:41:30 AM
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One thing is clear from all these reports: IF the GS is 85% 5-series, and the E-class is 92% 5-series and the XF is 99-101% 5-series then these cars are nipping at the legs of the 5-series. I may not be long before someone (very likely Mercedes takes that spot like they did with the S-class and 7-series). You see the looks of BMWs have been so polirizing that in comparos it loses a lot of points in looks and then barely makes up for it in handling. It used to be that in Luxury mecedes had that crown, in handling BMW had that crown, in interior design Audi had that crown and in ride quality Jaguar had that crown. Now.....there is Lexus, Infinity, Cadillac and a few others like Fisker, Porsche, even Aston Martin ($100k sports car??) and Range Rover (SUV or NOT they attract the same crowd) fighting for the same crowns. It a war out there and its bad for all of us because they are increasingly coping each others fomulas.

In just a space of 10 years Jaguar and cadillac have past BMW, AUDI and almighty Mercedes and joined Lexus and infinity as the most reliable Luxury brands in Most surveys. In that same time BMW past Mercedes benz and Lexus for sales in the US and became No. 1 in the World saleswise. In that same time 1) Nissan's Infinity G35 and G37 have borrow the 3-series crown. 2) Mercedes Benz has besically become cheaper than BMWs in the same category except the S 3) At the same time Acura (once nominated to be the first to catch BMW back in the early 90s) lost all it's sports cars and Audi now has several coupes/ sports cars!!) And this is the most painful, in that same period BMW, the darling of light weight luxury sports sedans now makes the Heavier cars than all other brands except AUDI. Whilst Jaguar, the poorest of them all now weighs the least. Btw No jaguar weighs more than 4000 pounds!! the X3 weights 4050, the old X5 5000, M5 4050, but the XJ8 weighs 3700!! less than the new M3 hardtop convertible!!

So Ladies and Gentlemen, you see, all these manufactures are now copying each other's attributes by being something to everyone instead of everything to a few. So I'm not surprised that the XF is that close to the 5-series.

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BFABSBFABS - 1/24/2008 9:50:09 AM
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Sorry I said "BMW past Lexus in sales in the US" I meant to write Cadillac.

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autoproautopro - 1/24/2008 10:52:35 AMView My AgentSpace
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Sorry wrong again Lexus is the sales Leader for the last seven years in a row,in the largest car market in the WORLD U.S.A. I don' know why these morons keep saying Lexus doesn't sell well in europe,If they wanted to take europe they could.It would mean building a strong dealer network and time,they did it from scratch in the U.S. in only ten years thats impressive.Just ask BMW and mercedes they'll tell you.


1995e341995e34 - 1/24/2008 11:10:12 AM
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europeans are too smart to buy the ES, so how would they achieve sales success?


vman1013vman1013 - 1/24/2008 10:09:10 AM
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