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Next BMW M5 Promises 550hp and Better Mileage

Work on the new BMW M5 is gathering pace, industry sources have revealed to Autocar. M division is collaborating closely with the team developing the next 5-series, and plans to take the supersaloon fight to Mercedes’s doorstep with an all-new, fifth-generation 550bhp M5 in 2011. Mercedes is currently working on a ground-up redesign of the E63 that will appear in 2009.

The new 5-series, due in 2010, will be an obvious evolution of today’s design, and the new M5 is expected to use the current V10, bored out to 5.5 litres. It is also likely to get a direct injection, turbocharged unit, to reduce emissions. The engines will be available with either the six-speed manual gearbox or the new seven-speed M DCT double-clutch transmission.

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Next BMW M5 Promises 550hp and Better Mileage



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M53RM53R - 5/7/2008 3:00:51 PMView My AgentSpace
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I was hoping they would keep all the M engines naturally aspirated... because the current M5 has one amazing engine, and I love high revving engines.. but I guess it's for the better.

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Agent009Agent009 - 5/7/2008 3:31:47 PMView My AgentSpace
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I don't think that is possible right now.

For Years BMW discounted turbos as not a purist way to design an engine.

But when you need high HP and high mileage you are left with a turbo as the best choice.


beeteebeetee - 5/7/2008 4:21:55 PM
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And that's pretty much the bottom line. I don't think the purists envisioned the rising costs of fuel and the (arguably) hard-line regulations that come as a result.

And then still keep the HP-heads happy?

Luckily, BMW's turbo technology has been amazing lately. The 4.4 in the X6 and the 3.5 are great engines, so the new M5 looks promising. Hopefully heat will not be an issue.


PorschinatorPorschinator - 5/7/2008 4:23:55 PM
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Exactly. For the M to survive it needs to be more conscious of its MPG. Thus turbos...besides that the engine will be a work of art.


indoctrin8edindoctrin8ed - 5/7/2008 4:54:26 PM
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Mileage is now even more important as gas guzzler taxes start to really make even these expensive cars less competitively priced.

If Vishnu has it's ways with this engine, you'll likely be able to squeeze a lot more power as well.


LexusLexus - 5/7/2008 4:18:08 PM
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I was actually expected this new BMW M5 to have well over 550 hp, maybe around 575 to 580 hp. Because the new Cadillac CTS-V already have well over 550 hp under their hood.

Well, I guess we've to wait for the production model to really find out what BMW have in store for us.

Lexus

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Agent63Agent63 - 5/7/2008 4:51:39 PM
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But the Germans don't build their cars worrying about the CTS-V. I love the new CTS though. It looks smokin hot! And it deserves a better 2nd go at taking on the Germans.


VISOVISO - 5/7/2008 9:48:47 PM
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No, because the new RS6 has 580-600. Honestly, BMW does not care about Cadillac nor Lexus. That is not their competition in this arena. It is S/RS vs. M vs AMG. These are the reigning performace powers in the volume luxury arena and those with much tradition. Cadillac barely sells 100 cars per year in Europe. Why would they care about the CTS-V?


Agent63Agent63 - 5/8/2008 8:28:21 AM
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Also don't count Jaguar out!. TaTa will back Jaguar until they're successful!. I'm liking what I see already with the introduction of the XF!. Great road presence, more refined than the old and ugly s-type.


bclemansbclemans - 5/7/2008 4:58:28 PM
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I don't think the numbers in the article make much sense. The current 5.0 liter V-10 already makes 500HP. Adding twin turbos alone (without stressing it too much) will easily achieve 550 horses. Think turbo charging the 3.0 liter I-6 increase from 230 horses to 300 horses for the 335.

BMW likes to keep the engine displacements small and car weight light to acheive close to 50-50 weight distribution. So the only reason for a 5.5 liter is to make more horses. Likewise, the increase displacement alone will make at least 550 horses or so.

The combination of bigger displacement and twin turbo need to have higher output to compensate for the added weight.

Otherwise, it make sense to keep the 5.0 liter and just add twin turbos - without adding much weight and adding horses.


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RupertRupert - 5/7/2008 6:23:37 PMView My AgentSpace
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Actually the current 330 (available in Europe) makes 270 hp, but I see what you mean. I'm just being really pedantic.


noname00noname00 - 5/7/2008 7:08:39 PM
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The turbos are there so they can reduce the max rpm of the engine. The engine is bored to 5.5 liter so the turbos could be light turbos, and you wont really feel them.This way they can achieve better mpg and more power.


AdmiralT20AdmiralT20 - 5/7/2008 7:39:52 PM
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I have my doubts about Turbo charged 5.5 litre V10. I think they will stay with 5.5litre V10 for now.


2JayZee2JayZee - 5/7/2008 5:48:06 PM
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The 5er is my favourite design among current BMW sedans (in fact, in it's class as well).

550hp, + better mileage? sign me up

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GermanNutGermanNut - 5/7/2008 8:13:22 PM
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Gee I wonder why the loser BMW M5 is getting turbos???

Maybe because it got run over by Audi's much more powerful and much more torquey RS6. The RS6 easily handed the M5 its ass both in the straights and in the twisties.

Poor BMW has no choice but to add turbos to the M5 because if they didn't, the current Audi RS6 with its 580 horsepower Twin-Turbo V10 would still slaughter the NEW M5.

Time to change your power strategy BMW in order to keep up with Audi and to a lesser extent Mercedes.

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M53RM53R - 5/8/2008 7:08:43 AMView My AgentSpace
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Haha, you know what's hilarious? You were saying the same thing about the RS4 vs M3. Then you were embarassed when the M3 came out with less horse power, less torque, and smaller displacement, but kicked the RS4's @ss. Please keep stupid comments to yourself.


chewychewy - 5/7/2008 8:25:48 PM
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BMW is promising everyting that the Audi RS6 already has. Excellent.

RS6 has more horsepower, more torque, and better fuel economy.

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Yonder7Yonder7 - 5/7/2008 9:22:00 PM
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CHEWY: 100% right, 335I have problems cotroling the temperature, imagine the V10, also beside that 5.5 liter means biger engine and more weight, unless they use AMG light weight technology or something like. I MB fan but for now all us should recognize tha RS6 is the King in HP war and also other new techs followed by the E63 and the M5 at last, which is not a big deal because all the diferences are tiny numbers. We have to be patient and hope that the next M5 will more HP, better millage and of course more torque a la AMG style.

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GermanNutGermanNut - 5/7/2008 9:25:52 PM
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If the new M5 doesn't have significantly more torque, it will simply get crushed day in and day out from 0-60 mph and even up through 100 mph because the Audi RS6's torque band is available over a huge range.

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ghosthunterghosthunter - 5/7/2008 9:43:05 PM
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so much NA heritage for BMW M class.

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MaindrianPaceMaindrianPace - 5/8/2008 10:56:17 AM
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Yeah, but remember the 2002 turbo always wore M colours and when M used to make the engines for the Formuala one teams, they did end up with Piquet winning the championship in a turbo, that was 25 years ago.


VISOVISO - 5/7/2008 9:51:53 PM
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The next M5 won't arrive till 2011-12. By then the current RS6 will be retired and out of production as a new A6 arrives. And so it goes. However, escalating horsepower is not longer considered politically correct, especially in the European Union. So, it will be interesting to see how far this can go.

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GermanNutGermanNut - 5/7/2008 10:09:20 PM
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The horsepower wars have already gone as far as they can go.

Look at MB's AMG division no longer creating huge torque monsters for each successive AMG. The 6.3 liter V8 is not that much of an increase in horsepower over the 5.5 liter kompressor.

Look at Audi's upcoming S4. They are using a supercharged V6 instead of the current NA V8 with the about the same horsepower ratings. However, the weight of the upcoming supercharged V6 S4 will be less and it will be more fuel efficient.

BMW's NA roots will be a thing of the past. If Audi continues to crank out enormous horsepower and torque numbers like it did with the RS6 over the M5 and the current RS4 over the old E46 M3, BMW will have to follow Audi's path and also Mercedes' in order to stay competitve.

If Audi launches the B8 RS4 with 460 horsepower and the B8 RS5 with 485 horsepower, there is no way BMW will be able to keep up with their 420 horsepower M3 for long. They have no NA engine that has similar output to the rumored Audi's hoorsepower ratings except for the 500 horsepower V10 in the M5.

Too bad the 5.0 liter 500 horespower V10 won't fit in the 3-series because BMW will need to come up with a solution and fast.




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MunichRobMunichRob - 5/8/2008 1:20:11 AMView My AgentSpace
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"GermanNut" The new M5 will have a huge advantage over the RS6 as it will undoubtably weigh hundreds of pounds less, & not to mention undercut the RS6's price-tag.

Also get it straight that BMW isn't the one following they're the ones leading as they're not the underdog!

The new M5 will probably come out and run-over the RS6 like the new M3 did the RS4. The M3 ran so far past that mark it could take on the R8. In fact on a consistant basis I've seen the M3 out-perform the R8 in the number deprt.

Please don't get me wrong as I love Audi, I just can't stand the "Nut."




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chewychewy - 5/8/2008 1:22:15 AM
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possibly, but the current M5 has nothing on the current RS6

http://www.autospies.com/news/Auto-Bild-tests-Audi-RS6-BMW-M5-Touring-Alpina-B5S-Touring-MB-E63-AMG-29580/


VISOVISO - 5/8/2008 5:04:26 PM
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Audi is no one's underdog. They lead in many areas and in many markets. BS comment


MunichRobMunichRob - 5/8/2008 5:02:58 AMView My AgentSpace
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You're right, I can't argue that.

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LarryLarry - 5/8/2008 5:50:11 AM
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Germannut just reading your BMW envy filled comments, "BMW will have to follow Audi as long as Audi crankout enoromus horsepower???" Does Audi follow BMW in everything the whole Audi concept of S/RS is BMW imitation, Just like Mercedes AMG Lexus F badge has copied BMW. The whole Audi sport image is copied from BMW. The oldest S badge Audi dates back to 1992, BMW M power 1972. Even though AMG dates back to 1969, the first mass produced AMG was in the 1990's. So remember Audi imitation is the sincerest form of BMW flattery, The Audi CEO goes to sleep dreaming of the day when Audi get some respect, especially in the USA.

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MaindrianPaceMaindrianPace - 5/8/2008 12:29:48 PM
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Well I hate the term "copying" in the auto industry.

But..

Audi are growing like BMW. The Z3 existed then came the TT. The BMW 3er coupe existed, the A5 has only just turned up. Large SUV, X5 then Q7, small SUV, X3 then Q5. The 3er 5er 7er lineup existed long before audi established the A4, A6, A8 lineup...

I AM NOT suggesting Audi copied BMW's strategies.. some things JUST MAKE SENSE!! Forced induction makes sense right now.. the fact the others may have already gone to turbos just means they ran out of ideas sooner or the model was due for a refresh earlier!


VISOVISO - 5/8/2008 5:10:07 PM
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You are full of shi$t dude. Audi has a storied racing tradition dating back to the early 1900s before BMW even existed. The won the great Alpine Runs of the early 1900s as far back as 1911 and continued to the great battles between MB and Auto Union. This has continued up to day with Le Mans, DTM, rally racing of the 80s when the magnificent Urquattro made it debut. Stop being a dumbass fanboy and show some respect where it is due. You know absolutely NOTHING about Audi and have no factual basis for any of your wannabe rants.


911gt2911gt2 - 5/9/2008 12:08:42 PM
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viso,getting defensive? you forget that there was a time when Audi didnt exist..and even thought the audi/auto union name has existed longer, BMW has always been BMW and for 80 years straight.Anyway length that your company has been around is not very relevent to the quality of the car company... i mean look at ford.
Also Maindrianpace is right BMW has created market segments(M cars) or entered certain market segments first, only for audi to follow. These are fact VISO which cant be denyed, no point in getting defensive.Also BMW has won more championships in a widder array of motorsport than Audi.


Yonder7Yonder7 - 5/8/2008 6:08:39 AM
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Larry you are right in some points but completly wrong in others: At this point BMW must move their but becasue the new RS6 is a superior car and even the MB AMG is better in several ways. Regarding the weight, the only way to improve the weight/performance relation will be making a lighter engin and as far as I see, that is not the stronger point of BMW, : M3 4.0= 202 KG, AMGs 6.2= 199 KGs, Imagine the V10, So please... the most of the time the only way to improve the weight/performance relation of BMW is remove equipment from the cars, as a result most of time all the others brand have more amenities and comodities inside the car, then they will have to go and start to use CF on several parts with the increase of the price of course. Just wait to see whats happen...wait.

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M53RM53R - 5/8/2008 7:12:44 AMView My AgentSpace
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GermanNut

You say the not yet released new RS4 will have a horsepower advantage over the M3, but you are forgetting that with the new M-DKG transmission in the M3, its about 2 tenths faster to 100km. I wouldnt be surprised if the Audi barely beats the M3 in a straighline, but when the roads get twisty, there is one king. An AWD will ALWAYS understeer.

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MaindrianPaceMaindrianPace - 5/8/2008 10:50:53 AM
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I think you should all read the article closer...

"The new 5-series, due in 2010, will be an obvious evolution of today’s design, and the new M5 is expected to use the current V10, bored out to 5.5 litres. It is also likely to get a direct injection, turbocharged unit, to reduce emissions. The engines will be...."

The article refers to the 5er, not just the M5 refers to a separate TT, Direct Injection unit and refers to engines plural.

It would indicate the M5 is just 5.5l Naturally aspirated.

Think on this though..

1993 BMW S70/2B60 V12 engine. 627hp & 266kg = 2.35hp/kg @ 103.5bhp/litre
2008 BMW S65/B40 V8 engine. 414hp & 202kg = 2.04hp/kg @ 103.3bhp/litre

I think it would be worth saying "F*** YOU" to environmentalists and poeple that worry about CO2, and keeping them naturally aspirated, but increasing the displacement. The weight increase in the engine is 64kg - not a small number, but at the same time, not irrecoverable.

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MaindrianPaceMaindrianPace - 5/8/2008 10:52:51 AM
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I'd like to add, I'm one of the people that'd rather keep BMW M naturally aspirated, but if they get forced into it by Audi and Mercedes, then so be it. As long as they keep winning engine of the year, then they must be doing something right!


VISOVISO - 5/9/2008 3:42:34 PM
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No one is getting defensive. And don't compare Audi to Ford. You are off base. BMW does not build better cars than Audi or MB. Each one has its merits. Also, Horch (which is a sense is Audi) was building some of Europe's most luxurious and magnificent vehicles pre WWII. BMW was no competition to Horch - ever. So, Audi history is as riche if not richer than BMWs in many respects.

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