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Tags: Nissan GT-R, Honda Prelude, Porsche

Tag Links: Nissan GT-R, Honda Prelude, Porsche

Nissan GT-R Called a 500HP Honda Prelude in New Comparison Test
If nothing else, the Nissan GT-R certainly has turned the automotive world upside down.  Month after month, magazine after magazine, website after website including here at AutoSpies.com new news of the Nissan GT-R continues to amaze and excite car enthusiasts the world over.

Here we have a car that most of us have only driven via a video game, and yet the mere mention of the word Skyline or GT-R gets people talking.  If Gran Turismo has done nothing else, it has made celebrities of cars that a little over 5 years ago weren't available on American Soil.  The Subaru WRX STi and the Mitsubishi Evo are excellent examples of cars some of us grew up driving in a virtual world that are now part of our automotive landscape.

And then of course there is the GT-R.  A car that grown men circle around the block to catch a glimpse of again, a car that has attracted the attention of everyone, a car that still hasn't been defined in terms of the automotive segment it actually fits in, but a car that has people signing up to be on waiting lists for the chance to own one of these beasts.

What cars should the GT-R really compete with.  A couple of weeks ago AutoSpies.com was the first to bring you news of the C&D comparison pitting the GT-R against a 911 Turbo and a BMW M3.  In declaring the M3 a winner, the comments started flying ranging from complete agreement to utter disgust in the fact that the GT-R shouldn't be compared to the M3.  A lot of discussion centered around what cars the GT-R SHOULD be compared to.

Lucky for us it seems as though the automotive world was listening as Car & Driver has brought back the GT-R for another round of comparisons, this time including the Corvette Z06, the Dodge Viper ACR and the Porsche 911 GT2.  An interesting trend seems to be developing as just like the crowning of the M3 in the last comparison even though it was the slowest, the same has happened again in this latest round of testing.

The Nissan GT-R takes first place against some tough competition, and here again pricing played a role in determining the winner, but it wasn't the score that won the test.  C&D ranked the Corvette Z06 last place, the Viper ACR in 3rd, the 911 GT2 2nd and awarded the top spot to the GT-R.  In evaluating the subjects, it is noted that the particular GT-R tested seemed to be a little down on power being the first one tested to get to 60 MPH in over 4 seconds.

The writer goes on to state, "On the road course, the GT-R floundered at first.  Bawling, irrepressible under steer was all the bulky Bridgestone run-flats could muster in slower turns.  Along twisty byways, it was cited for being colder and less thrilling than the other mega-personalities in the test.  "It's a 500-hp Prelude," grumped one editor."

At Button Willow Raceway Park the GT-R was the third slowest around the track besting only the Corvette Z06.  The Viper ACR smoked the other cars posting a lap time 4-seconds faster than the 911 GT2, and almost 6-seconds faster than the GT-R. 

In writing this piece, I questioned what could really be learned from this latest round of testing and comparing, and for a while I was stumped.  There really is nothing currently being offered by any other manufacturer that really matches the specs of the GT-R at the price of the GT-R.  It really is in a class by itself.  And then it struck me that perhaps that truly is the real genius of the GT-R, the fact that it truly is in a class by itself.  An innovative product that has created if not a completely new segment, a brand new sub-segment in the marketplace.

The results as reported by C&D will be argued and disputed.  The hardcore GT-R fans will argue that the GT-R with a price just over $70k is beating cars costing more than twice as much (current base price for the 911 GT2 is $192,560) and those who are Porsche loyalists will argue the exclusive nature of the GT2 and 911 Turbo.  The funny thing is both sides are correct.

The 911 is a timeless shape that doesn't turn heads like it used to, except if you are a Porsche fan.  Knowing a 993 from a 996 from a 997 is not something the average person knows, but it is something a Porsche enthusiast knows.  The GT-R is a new shape on American soil, and it will turn heads.  Time will tell if it ages like the 911.

The GT-R beat out a whole group of worthy competitors, do you agree with the outcome, or is there a car missing that hasn't had its day in the ring with the GT-R?

We ask, you decide...

Story by Agent 00J

Nissan GT-R Called a 500HP Honda Prelude in New Comparison Test



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DaHarderDaHarder - 6/23/2008 1:20:24 AM
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One thing's certain, statements like that do nothing to elevate an editor's credibility... Enough Said!

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auto001auto001 - 6/23/2008 11:28:06 AM
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GT-R got completely dissed in the last C&D comparo, looks they're trying to correct the mistake they made doing a retest... but I'm sure many readers have already lost all respect for this mag, myself included.


EL34EL34 - 6/23/2008 1:29:52 AM
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_43LE_43LE - 6/23/2008 10:30:12 AM
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Yeah, I could see that, if I were on acid.


auto001auto001 - 6/23/2008 11:30:26 AM
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nothing wrong with looking like a Prelude (not that it does, cause I'm not on acid), it is one of the nicest designs to come from Japan.


dlindlin - 6/23/2008 1:37:55 AM
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From now on, GT-R is meant to compete w/ NSX & LF-A, and, if we are lucky, new RX-7.

Not that European cannot compete, it's just that it will take them some time and tons of money, which of course will be reflected in price.

Probably they should consider hiring some NISSAN development engineers? :)


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dlindlin - 6/23/2008 1:42:55 AM
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Again. I regret subscribing to C&D. It takes just an hr to finish a new issue. They don't what they are talking about and the printing simply sucks!


ghosthunterghosthunter - 6/23/2008 3:27:27 AM
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i think by not admitting Nissan's success, they are putting themselves in a tough spot.
by all means, they can call the GT-R a prelude, a accord or even a corolla, but the truth stays: it is a faster sports car than any other competitor, it out handles and out powers every other car (so far) yet carries a very low price. If those exotic car cannot even match the performance of a corolla, I'd love to see how they gonna sell their cars based on "timeless shape."

seriously, respect your competitors, especially one who beats you. if GT-R is to be compared as Honda Prelude, then the 911's performance is not going to be higher than a Honda fit.



Matthew1Matthew1 - 6/23/2008 6:13:40 AM
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"Probably they should consider hiring some NISSAN development engineers?"

Let's see....

The R35 GT-R Project was created by a European, it was tested on European tracks, and much of its development was carried out by European engineers emplyed by Nissan Europe.



HyundaiHyundai - 6/23/2008 7:10:18 PM
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Matthew1, he never said anything about them not being European or said that they were Japanese. Why do you have to be a prick all the time?!


BoredBored - 6/23/2008 3:43:09 AM
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I'm starting to wonder if the BS that C/D spews might be nothing more than a marketing ploy that's a step or two short of being a "troll" (or "forum troll" or "online troll", I guess) -- something that gets the vast majority of us pissed off, usually to the point of forcing a response of one type or another.

Several months back, I responded to C/D about their comparison of a soon to be replaced Audi RS4 sedan, a MB C63 AMG sedan that was so new that the engine hadn't even been "broken in", and a BMW M3 Coupe! -- not a fair comparison IMHO. I think they are all great vehicles, but they should have waited to use a M3 sedan to be proper, and to quell their never-ending "pro BMW bias". I joked that for the April 2008 edition, they should rename the mag "BMW and Driver" and every article, road test and comparison in that issue should have at least one BMW, even if the vehicle used doesn't necessarily fit, ie: an under $30K minivan comparo and add a X3 that has a MSRP starting over $38K. Obviously, my suggestion wasn't used. At least not this year.

Anyway, I hope I'm making my point clear. I guess a simpler explanation would be a rather well respected mag that occasionally...um...well, acts like one of AutoSpies' annoying posters, like "MichaelTaylor", for instance -- some of us reply hoping for a logical explanation, some of us rain down insults, and some of us do their best to ignore. But the end result is always the same: ATTENTION. And maybe, just maybe, C/D is desperate for it so they can remain relevant when readers have free alternatives for automotive news.

Of course if that's true, it really is like the trolls here: pathetic.


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utahnkidutahnkid - 6/23/2008 1:01:41 PM
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What still surprises me is that you guys STILL respond to those OBVIOUSLY bs posts and take them seriously. DUH, of course it's just someone looking for a reaction. Stop giving them attention and they'll go away.


henbmwhenbmw - 6/23/2008 3:31:11 PM
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Bored-

I feel as thought I have rebuffed this argument dozens of times, but, why not once more?

Why did C&D compare the M3 coupe to its 4-door competitors??

BECAUSE ITS BASICALLY THE SAME AS THE SEDAN.

Engine? The same
Transmission? The same
Suspension? The same
Weight? Sedan 109lbs heavier

The only real difference is the amount of doors and the CF roof, WHICH IS AN OPTION on the coupe.

That is why C&D compared the coupe with the sedans - they are basically equivalent.

As for C&D BMW bias...ahhhh....

READ THE MAGAZINE. Here are some test results:

Z4 M vs Cayman S : Porsche wins
SUV Comparo: MDX 1st, Caddy SRX 2nd, X5 3rd
Uber Sedans: E63 1st, Audi S6 2nd, M5 3rd
Full-sized sedans: MB s550 1st, Audi A8 2nd, 750Li 3rd

That is 4 different BMW models that lost comparo tests. And the list goes on.

Maybe if you clear your mind of these ignorant disillusions, you might understand that C&D IS NOT BIASED TOWARDS BMW.



BoredBored - 6/23/2008 6:11:31 PM
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@ henbmw,

Believe it or not, I don't disagree with your views. I am a C/D subscriber, first as a teen and younger adult and started back up about 2 years ago. I'm used to people like yourself who read too much into what I say or write, but admit that I should have added the words "perception" and/or "perceived" when talking about C/D so-called bias. I only offered my thoughts as an observation, a possible m.o., not a condemnation of the mag. Maybe if you had taken the time to give more thought about what I wrote, you wouldn't have responded so negatively.

So actually the only with "ignorant disillusions" is you. I should point out that I only go out of my way to insult "trolls", so let's hope you are not one of them.



Agent63Agent63 - 6/23/2008 4:21:17 AMView My AgentSpace
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GT-R is surely in a class of its own. Like Agent001 stated in his article both sides are correct. GT-R fans will defend the Nissan and Porsche fans will back their favorite brand.

At $70k the GT-R is more of a power packed toy for the playstation generation. It's a nicely put together package. However, I fear that the drivers of a GT-R is less competent than a driver of a Porsche because of the raw experience. The GT-R seems so easy. I rather see these GT-R's on the streets than in a wreck yard.


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NARunnerNARunner - 6/23/2008 2:06:22 PMView My AgentSpace
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Maybe you are a bit jaded from the R8 ownership, but how young do you think these drivers are going to be plunking down $70k for a sports car? That's still a nice chunk of change...I don't foresee too many 16-28 year-olds (playstation generation) purchasing this car. Yeah, it's a great deal compared to a 911 turbo, but it's not like it costs peanuts.


Agent63Agent63 - 6/23/2008 10:50:46 PMView My AgentSpace
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For the younger kids out there who have parents with deep pockets this car is easily obtainable. I live in a city where I see that scenario on a daily basis. A 20 year old kid driving a M5. Something wrong with that? no but it sure as hell isn't there own money.

No i'm not jaded from the R8 ownership. I'm happy with the car even though it doesn't go 0-60 in under 4 seconds. It's the feel and the experience that I like. I brought it out to a near by track and it was awesome and very fun.

I like the GT-R though. Even before with the RX-7, NSX, 300zx and GT-R it wasn't like their performance was shabby. Sometimes it was even on par with European cars but it never had that sense of occasion like a Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini. But having said that the 300zx is mighty quick and I loved each and every one of those Japanese cars I listed.



NARunnerNARunner - 6/24/2008 10:22:59 AMView My AgentSpace
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I agree with you to an extent, but I think the scenario you see play out everyday is more the exception rather than the rule.

FYI, I only brought up the R8 our of jealousy.



Agent63Agent63 - 6/24/2008 7:30:39 PMView My AgentSpace
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I don't think you guys should be jealous at all. I'm just fortunate to have it I definitely worked my butt off over the past few years so I decided to treat myself to a sports car. I'm 25 and haven't really experienced anything like an R8. I drive my LS and S to work most of my days.

Again nothing to envy at least not of me. I write off a lot of my expenses :)



EL44EL44 - 6/23/2008 4:54:38 AMView My AgentSpace
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Again a C&D speciality! They are going to No credibility point.

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993Turbo993Turbo - 6/23/2008 6:19:04 AM
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Those who can't drive, write for C&D. The ONLY mag I don't subscribe to.

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BremboBrembo - 6/23/2008 8:50:58 AM
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Agree.


henbmwhenbmw - 6/24/2008 4:28:19 PM
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Exactly. Thats why they consistently have the fastest 0-60 times.


WhattheWhatthe - 6/23/2008 10:56:31 AM
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At least car and driver opinions aren't bought and paid for like motortrend. High advertiser wins.
Motor Trend has picked car of the year many time before they drive the car.
By the way, anyone know how much car of the year costs?


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BremboBrembo - 6/23/2008 8:06:10 AM
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Anyone who calls the GT-R a Honda prelude, has NO idea, NO idea what the GT-R is. And should not ever open their mouth. PERIOD!

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pcar4evrpcar4evr - 6/23/2008 9:21:59 AM
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Well, now that C&D has the GTR besting the GT2 and last month C&D had the M3 besting the GTR, then by C&D logic clearly the M3 must be far superior to the GT2.

oh, brother!





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BremboBrembo - 6/23/2008 9:52:02 AM
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And people on site think I was wrong when I said C&D was bias toward BMW.


ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 6/23/2008 11:49:06 AM
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Thats a great point... lol...

M3 is better than GT2, 997 Turbo, Z06, GT-R, and a Viper...

(Not taking away anything from the M3, I'm sure its a dream to drive, but I don't think its exactly in the class of the above mentioned cars)



IS3andMEIS3andME - 6/23/2008 10:58:22 AM
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Odd how they have a slightly lighter and race-prepped Viper ACR go against the GT-R, they should have included the Standard model Viper. If they inlcuded the ACR, then they should have tested the V-spec, which isn't out yet. Likewise for the 911 GT2. Which is a lighter RWD 911 turbo.

Seems like they were trying to stack the deck against the GT-R, and lost out.

Although, I do believe that the GT-R seems to be more video game than reality. It seems the Japanese like to engineer cars that have no feeling, no bonding w/them. One doesn't get emotional stirred by the design, nor the execution of the car itself. Plus it makes everything easy...Just put a quarter in...and play.


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PlanBPlanB - 6/23/2008 1:59:36 PM
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I agree with your 1st paragraph. Let's see what $60k in upgrades to a base GT-R can do with this same group of performers and then lets see what happens, otherwise this comparison isn't a very accurate one.


henbmwhenbmw - 6/23/2008 3:37:18 PM
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Except the GT-R doesn't come in a 'race-prepped' form. Not yet anyways.

When it does, however, I'm sure they will oblige.



WhattheWhatthe - 6/23/2008 10:59:02 AM
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The only thing the GT-R is missing is the reset button.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 6/23/2008 11:21:14 AM
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GT-R performs impressively--for the money.

but it's still freakin' ugly. it looks like a tarted up lesser car.


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gsh23gsh23 - 6/23/2008 12:37:02 PM
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its not a chick car, thats for sure.


KeyserSozeKeyserSoze - 6/23/2008 11:38:12 AM
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yes! Thats because the design is meant to look industrial and it was done so deliberately to avoid the generic design most sports cars today look like. The GT-R looks mean and ugly and I really do not mind having one parked in my garage. GODZILLA IS BACK!

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222max222max - 6/23/2008 4:01:51 PM
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There's some truth to this. I mean, A supercar is almost expected to follow the Italian template of being low-slung, sloping hood and pointy-nosed. I mean, look at all the Saleen S7s, Ferraris, Lambo, McLarens and so forth of the world. They all have the same basic profile except that the detailing in the design is what differentiates them.

The GT-R is more of the Porsche mold. The 911 is not really a sexy car (IMO) but it does look like a sports car... tough and purposeful. The GT-R is the Japanese interpretation of that outlook. I believe there's plenty of room in the world for a this design approach. It looks the way it does by design and love it or hate it, there' really nothing else like it on the road.



Agent00JAgent00J - 6/23/2008 2:29:47 PMView My AgentSpace
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Do your friends call you an idiot or moron a lot?

Seriously you are like a broken record. We ALL get it, you don't like BMW, that is fine. When you are old enough to drive, you don't have to choose BMW if you don't want to. I would venture a guess to suggest you probably will spend a lot of time using public transportation. Shouldn't be that big a deal for you, seeing as public transportation won't be that big a change from the school bus you currently ride.

-00J


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_43LE_43LE - 6/23/2008 3:31:18 PM
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When a comment like Staar's is submitted but it makes fun of Lexus or Infiniti, etc. (i.e. Japanese cars) I never see agents jumping to the defense of that brand. Agents on this site should remain unbiased or it will tarnish even further the already biased reputation of the agents. Why don't the agents respond when EL34 cries like a "broken record".

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Agent00JAgent00J - 6/23/2008 6:41:37 PMView My AgentSpace
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_43LE - I agree with you 100%. I just simply spoke about BMW as that is the brand Staar mentioned in this post. As I have stated over and over again, the beauty of the automobile is the fact that people can get so passionate about them. If you read my post from last weekend you will note that while I am not a huge fan of Lexus, when my neighbor showed up in a IS-f I complimented him on his choice even if his choice wasn't my choice.

I love cars, period.

Thanks for the insight none the less.

-00J


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henbmwhenbmw - 6/23/2008 3:41:02 PM
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I'm tired of people being upset over the GT-R recent dominance. I, for one, am ecstatic that they produced a car this good for such a low price point. Why?

Because every other manufacture will have to do the same, or at least cut their costs. As long as the GT-R is priced so low, the Europeans will have to lower their seemingly inflated prices.

I'll take one post GT-R Ferrari, please.


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zjanzenzjanzen - 6/23/2008 6:00:04 PM
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The GT-R is a modern marvel in function to cost. There is no real competitor out there, not even the soon to be NSX or LF-A (they will be over the $100,000 price point).

Car and Driver is all B.S.. They are so biased and the articles have become soooo watered down.

Now I am a Japanaphile by admission, but having just been in Germany on vacation and renting a BMW 320d wagon, and hitting 220 kph (140 mph) on the autobahn, I will be the first to tell you that BMW makes a quality car. A entry level wagon that has a 6 speed manual and enough power to hang with s6 and 330's, while still being able to brake down to 120 kph, is alright in book.


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Threepoint1415926Threepoint1415926 - 6/23/2008 8:00:33 PM
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I honestly dont know what everyone is so upset about. I ACTUALLY READ the article in question (something it seems no one else has). Out of two pages of praise, one editor from the log book had that to say about the car. And, in all honesty, I think the editors are well within their rights to be more suspecious this time around. Seems they couldnt get this factory GT-R to perform like their journalist spec car of last time even at a hugely lower altitude (250 ft vs 4377).

0-60 4.1 vs 3.6
1320 12.6/111 vs 12.1/115

Buttonwillow time was only .6 sec faster than the Z06. Given Road and Track's Z06 and GT-R difference of 5.3 seconds with their Journalist's test car, one must scratch his head a bit. Was this car that C&D got an especially slow version or were the earlier testers just especially fast? It wouldn't be the first time the latter has happened. I remember a certain Mercedes SL600 that was doing 3.6 second 0-60 runs.


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minimalistminimalist - 6/23/2008 8:46:06 PM
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once again goes to show just how awesome and before its time the honda prelude was. go honda! haha.

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harbingerofsmokeharbingerofsmoke - 6/24/2008 8:34:41 AM
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Well if that's the case then I can't wait for the Prelude Spec-V to come out.

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pcar4evrpcar4evr - 6/24/2008 7:37:11 PM
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just read the test in C&D.

GTR 0-60 in 4.1 sec, 1/4 mile in 12.6@111mph. Better not run that hog against the 2009 Carrera S let alone a turbo or GT2.


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farabira1farabira1 - 6/24/2008 10:58:07 PM
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I can cite many other tests by Edmunds and Motor trend where the 0-60 mph for the GTR was around 3.5 seconds. And please GTR has already spanked the GT3, how can you even imagine in your perturbed mind that the carrera S is even comparable to the Gut crushing speed of the Godzilla. 997 turbo and the GT3 were humiliated by the GTR on track. Probably only the GT2 can best it, but the V spec Godzilla will just pulp it like mango.


pcar4evrpcar4evr - 6/25/2008 4:16:35 AM
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simple fanaboya I mean farabira, those early GTRs were probably factory "doctored" and the 4.1/12.6 times are what real world GTR's are putting down. Remember, R&T had the turbo crushing the GTR in its testing, as well.

Everyone has wondered how a 4000 lb hog could put down those earlier, faster numbers - simple answer it can't.



PorschinatorPorschinator - 6/24/2008 8:19:35 PM
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Since the M3 beat the GT-R we can assume the M3 is also better than the GT2, Z06, and that Viper? Hmmmm??? I'm confused...

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farabira1farabira1 - 6/24/2008 11:03:49 PM
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Porschinator, if the M3 is better than the GTR, and if the GTR is even better than GT3, Z06, and the viper, then surely the implication is that M3 is even better than GT3, Z06, and the viper. Wow some people must smoke some exotic insanity inducing pot to claim that the M3 is better than all those cars: the GTR, GT3, and the Z06.


S30GTRS30GTR - 6/25/2008 2:05:17 AM
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ridiculous post. someone did not get enough attention when he was a kid.

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farabira1farabira1 - 6/25/2008 2:29:18 AM
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rightly said. Godzilla eats BMW M3s and Porsche Carreras for breakfast, so to say that the beast(GTR) is like a tame Prelude is nothing but like openly saying that "i have a mental problem."


pcar4evrpcar4evr - 6/25/2008 4:19:21 AM
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Godzilla, you mean hogzilla


weaponXweaponX - 6/25/2008 8:51:04 AM
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It's like calling the 911 Turbo a 480-hp VW Beetle on steroids.


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EyecarehawaiiEyecarehawaii - 6/26/2008 8:49:39 AM
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American automotive publications are extremely biased, but this should not come as news to anyone. Do your own research and make your own impressions. Don't waste good money on these magazines.

Do I think the GT-R is the best sports car ever? No, but I think it's a damn fine one if you can get it at or near near its MSRP.


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avanti64avanti64 - 6/27/2008 12:11:30 AM
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To pcar4evr: Your beloved Porsche is a fat VW Beetle.

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Threepoint1415926Threepoint1415926 - 6/27/2008 4:59:54 PM
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Not that the 911 has anything to do with the Beetle anymore but if you want to play that game, so what? The Beetle was arguably one of the best cars ever made if not the best. Produced in 6 countries on 4 continents to the tune of over 21 million. What's wrong with having that kind of heritage?



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