44 Votes

OLD M3 Spanks NEW RS4??

CPILLAR submitted on 11/15/2006 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 1:04:32 PM

98 user comments | Category: New Cars | Source: www.autospies.com

Before anyone says anything, note that Sport Auto magazine runs the tests with the SAME driver and - more importantly - they use the SAME track conditions as much as possible.

...

GermanNut and Chewy might need a muzzle :)

The M6 and M5 graded well against the RS6 too

http://www.m3csl.de/images/forums/SA_Ringtimes_October.jpg

About the Author

— CPILLAR (View Profile)

User Comments

are u looking at CSL .....

we don't have CSL in US and it is made with lots of carbon...

yawn

go back and check again RS4 MT <-> M3 coupe MT
— thecar (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 1:21:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

that is the old rs4 silly boy
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 4:02:59 AM | | Votes: -1

Another flame war in the making...
— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 1:30:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Just an example of BMW doing what BMW does best.
— audiot (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 1:53:29 PM | | Votes: 1

CSL is a great car , no question about that
— thecar (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 1:37:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

The CSL is most certainly cable of out muscling the new RS4. To bad it's not sold in the U.S.A.
— BM3W (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 1:41:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

yeah, i'm predicting 150 angry comments

also, like "thecar" said, it was the competition sport lightweight M3 that posted the 7:50 time. The RS4 posted 8:09, while the MT M3 posted 8:22, the M5 8:13, and the M6 8:09.

In short, the RS4 is as fast/faster than any BMW available in the states.

This article's title is misleading.
— NARunner (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 1:43:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

not everything is about the states. Dont you know there is a world outside the US?
— MPowerDK (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 2:23:06 AM | | Votes: -1

what are we, 5 years old? Did i insult your heritage or something? Relax, I didn't say only the states mattered, I just said that the RS4 is faster than any BMW we have in the states...just a simple statement, don't jump off a bridge over it.

— NARunner (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 7:17:25 AM | | Votes: 1

will and lexus sitting in a tree K I S S I N G
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 3:58:23 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

LOL, a good one Will!
— Homer008 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 9:41:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

i normalyl dont waste my time responding to the lexus people, (totally brainwashed), but this one is pretty funny for future reference the is has handling on par with something way off base from a 3 series hmmm what about a camry, because every test it has been it has lost to the 330i in overall and in the handling department, i seriously doubt they an is with more power, more weight, will be able to even run with the likes of an m3 in speed, or for that matter handling a 325i/328i would out handle the is350 mags say its steering is no where near 3 series level. lexus doesnt make performance cars they make boring japanese buicks with good 0-60 times.....try again this time make sense
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 6:04:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

lol @ "sporty" handling a suzuki sx4 and kia rio has also been praised for "sporty" handling, sure sporty handling works for what it looks like a scion version of the 3 series (it looks totally downmarket just like the last one crappy is), it competes in the "luxury performance" category not sporty cars. and it is in this area the lexus cant compete with 3 series, on handling, ride and handling balance, balance period, refinement vs performance, the bmw is simply the better car all around it took 306hp and a new generation to be simply competitive with the 330i (255hp) a performance car is about more than the samme v6 thats used in a "toyota camry" having alot of horsepower being fast in a straight line who cares if it drives like a toyota corolla sized buick, the 335i shouldnt even be put in the same league as the is....in fact mags say the much cheaper infiniti g35 is a better choice over the is...the is is just another wanna be bmw from the japanese company that does bmw/mercedes impressions poorly.....
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 8:44:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Well the othere thing to bare in mind is the the second RS4 time has been **'d, which means it was on sport tires. The standard tire'd time for the standard M3 was faster than the standard tir'd time for the RS4, but then that ime looks like it might have been for an older version of the RS4 (I don't know they all look the same to me).

But it's all crap anyway. Does anybody know of these times are run with the speed limiter in place?

One day, someone will invent a simulator for cars, that simulates a mathematically perfect track 62.7 miles in length - where the car will be controlled by a computer that is designed to always give the optimum driving style - and remain consistent, day after week after month after year... and then we can see what car is truly fastest, until of course.. people realise that the most people buy cars based on practical constraints - not laptimes.
— matt635 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 2:38:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

the VW autodriving robot
— thecar (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 2:44:28 PM | | Votes: 1

you woudl expect the csl to spank the rs line (it will do so across the range).. just like the M version spanks the S line up and down the line. it is, has been, and will be the world order
— AmazingBimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 2:49:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

The M3 CSL just didn't spank the RS4, it pretty much spanked a lot of supercars too. It lapped faster than: F430, 575M Maranello, 996 Turbo, Gallardo.

Very impressive.

— weaponX (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 3:24:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

think m5 csl. ouch. what do you think audi guys are doing right now? back to the drawing board? shaking in theri boots? or release cars a year ahead of BMW to gain SOME market share.? funny.
— AmazingBimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 3:26:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

they sell about 100 csl's per year, it has no air conditioning, leather, electric seats, heated seats, any luxury items basically. it is completely limited edition. i believe onl a few thousand in europe. you could not use an m3 csl everyday.

anyway S-cars don't compete with M-cars. RS-cars do. the S-cars compete with the larger engined bmws and mercs, ie S4/335i/clk500 s6/e550/550i s3/nothing from merc/nothing from bimmer.
bar the s8 of course, no bmw competes with that, because for some reason their flagship doesn't do "ultimate driving".
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 5:14:38 PM | | Votes: 1

The R8 with V10 will post BETTER times than the M3 CSL did.

To set the record straight:

No BMW ever to reach U.S. soil has ever lapped the Nurburgring faster than an Audi RS4.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 3:35:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Again another stupid american. dont you know that there is a world outside the US? Germany remember! they make the best cars in the world :) Ford (US) GM (US)are fighting to survive, and they make lots of more cars than the germans.We in europe dont like the US cars that much, thats why we dont buy it, they are to big, uses to much fuel, looks ugly, bad quality in and out.
— MPowerDK (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 2:28:08 AM | | Votes: -2

CSL is the one NOT sold here and IARC it costs more than the RS4. You can get an RS4 and throw away the interior bits, (what the CSL does) but that would take away from the luxury (all weather) sports performance of the RS4. Comparing the CSL to the RS4 is like comparing a Lotus Elise to a Porsche Cayman. Similar performance but one car has too sacrafice way too much to remain competitive.
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 3:58:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Pretty funny GermanNut - The Audi "SuperCar" competing with the M3!!!

Keep digging.....

If you put the Sport tires on the OLD M3 - the same ones that were used on the NEW RS4 in the test, it seems like they would be on par.

Your only hope is to compare apples to oranges. It's futile old chap! Imagine what the new M3 is going to do....
— CPILLAR (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 4:02:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I'll compare the Audi R8 with V10 against any car BMW has ever produced be it an M3, M3 CSL, M5 or M6 or even Z8.

No BMW will match the R8 w/ V10's time.

I'll compare the Audi supercar to the most expensive M model, BMW has produced (M6) and still the Audi will win.

I can compare apples to apples or apples to oranges.

Either way, the Audi R8 with V10 will come out with the fastest time.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 4:17:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

correction, the m6 is faster than the r8, a corvette is faster than the r8, a ctsv is faster than r8, 300 srt8 is as fast as the r8....its laughable another overweight car from audi that only manages to have a decent 0-60 by comparison the funny thing is how much does the m6 weigh and it still is faster, with how many seats....and on this whole m3, rs4 thing the old m3 is only 2 tenths of a second slower than the rs4 with a v8 and 420hp power the m3 has less than 300lb of tourque, and just 333hp. and of course the csl is faster it is a better m3 im sure its weight saving would clear the 0-60 difference easy, the sad thing is that everyone here is saying the price difference of rs4 and csl, look at the price difference of the m3 and rs4 and the most the rs4 has to offer a car that has it the end of its lifecycle is 2 tenths of a second off 0-60, and an almost $20,000 price jump audis are jokes....period
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 6:10:35 PM | | Votes: 3

until BMW makes a competitor to the R8 :)

BMW makes a good job, M3 CSL against the RS4 is okay, even BMW dont even have a competiter to that car.

Anyone of you guys in here could not even get around the track in 15 min, so who cares about what car is the fastest? By the way i think europeans drive better than us citizen. We are more used to drive fast and most of us drives german cars, not supercars but good nice cars. A car does not need to be badged M3, S4 AMG to be good.
— MPowerDK (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 6:23:36 AM | | Votes: 1

god i am in the world of 10 year olds
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 9:09:35 PM | | Votes: 0

I will drill this fact into all these BMW supporters minds until they can't do anything but accept the fact that Audi will be producing a car that will out-accelerate and out-track any BMW every produced. That includes any M model or CSL model.

I like BMW and I like Audi.

Sometimes BMW fans just have to accept the fact that Audi can make cars that are faster around the tracks.

They clearly aren't willing to accept anything. The R8 with V10 will make them think otherwise about who is in charge when it comes time to producing mid-engine exotics.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 4:25:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Calm down German Nut..take a deep breath....

The R8 and M3 are two different types of car. The M3 is not defined by BMW or anyone else for that matter as a "supercar". You can use such comparisons in your little head if that makes you feel better - who cares.

By the way, "no BMW will match the R8 w/V10's time"

Well, using YOUR logic, the BMW Sauber F1.06 will absolutely destroy any Audi....do you see how ridiculous your comparison is?

Nuff said.

— CPILLAR (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 4:49:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Well does McLaren sell the F1 model with a BMW badge, MDalle? NO.

I can counter with another useless example if you would like with the Bugatti Veyron. VAG produces a $1.2 million car that will scare the daylights out of an Enzo, Carrera GT, Saleen S7, Zonda etc.....

I'm not including it because it is not badged as an Audi.

CPillar, c'mon, it takes some damn common sense on your part to realize that the discussions revolve around street legal cars.

Please, let's keep this to street legal cars badged offerings from Audi and BMW.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 4:54:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

We don't have any confirmation of a BMW mid-engine exotic called M9, M10, Z8 or whatever the hell they want to call it.

We don't even know if such a car will be produced.

For all those guessing about the validity of the R8 with V10 being produced there are members on the audiworld.org forums unders the R8 section that are on the list for cars named "R10". The R10 will be this current R8 with V10 engine.

In fact, one of the members who is on the list for an R10 has been invited to a special private unveiling of the Audi R8 on Rodeo Drive.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 4:57:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

The hell with the M3 CSL. The hell with an M5, M6 or M5 CSL or M6 CSL. The R10 is going to reign supreme to all these cars that are making a case for their odds against a mid-engine exotic with V 10 car like the R10.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 5:10:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

buy one if you are so much in love with it. We dont care. I guess you should use a day og two to get around the track anyway :)

Drive safe
— MPowerDK (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 6:29:15 AM | | Votes: 1

like i predicted ..funny. eitherway. bmw rules.
— AmazingBimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 5:51:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

I think Audi and BMW rule.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 6:26:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

I do LOVE the R8 and the R10. I also LOVE various BMWs except the X3 who's handling is a disgrace to BMW's love for driving dyamics.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 6:31:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

you guys should give some credit to audi for making the R8, because its sexy...
— 528i (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 6:35:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

The RS4 beat the current M3 because it newer and had way more hp under it hood. RS4 0-60 in 4.6 or something like that, the current M3 did it in 4.8 or something like that. But the RS4 has 420 hp and the current M3 has only 333hp. When the new M3 come out with 420+ hp of it own it will gave the RS4 the run for it money. But oh...wait...what that? oh..shit...the up and coming IS500 is coming with 440+ hp of it own and C-class AMG with 400+ hp too. Can't wait to see the result when they test driver all this cars.

Lexus

Lexus
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 7:05:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

The RS4 does it 4.3 seconds.
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 8:43:04 PM | | Votes: 1

Audi is not making a competitor to the M3
the RS4 is a car in a diffrent class then the M3

v6 2 door

v8 4 door

diffrent

the CLS is not a car here in america and it is a scripped racer

Thanks BMW fans for reminding me how much Audi is rocking the boat
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 9:12:20 PM | | Votes: 0

what a twat! do you not know anyting about BMW's its an I6, no a V6, and its a CSL, not a CLS (that was a different car - AC SCnitzer tuned E36 M3)
— matt635 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/17/2006 1:45:10 PM | | Votes: 2

what a twat! do you not know anyting about BMW's its an I6, no a V6, and its a CSL, not a CLS (that was a different car - AC SCnitzer tuned E36 M3)
— matt635 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/17/2006 1:45:17 PM | | Votes: 2

When the result come back the Lexus IS500 will take the Crown. All hail King...Lexus....can you smell what Lexus is Cookin? how about the IS500 and Lexus LF-A. Ah..ha...ha...ha...ha...

Lexus
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 7:13:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Knowing Lexus, it'll have zero steering feedback and feel as isolated as all their products. At least that's the feeling I got when I testdrove the IS250. And it was pretty slow too.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 8:18:02 PM | | Votes: 3

I testdrove the IS250 when doing my car shopping. To be honest, Will, this car didn't impress me at all. Both the BMW and Saab had more character and drove better, especially the BMW. The steering on the Lexus was lifeless to say the least. The suspension was decent, a little hard but the car was comfortable. A sports sedan however places little emphasis on comfort.

The IS is a good car, but it simply lacks the sportiness of the car it was intended to take down: the BMW 3-Series. When it came to comfort, the IS was the better ride than the Saab and Bimmer.

Please don't attack me with comments that I am a "German fanboy". I'm being truthful here.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 8:37:44 PM | | Votes: 2

An example of the perfectly good old M3 engine getting replaced (or not used) by some junky turbo one.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 8:20:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

I am sure that not a single BMW fanboy on this website would take the M3 CSL over the normal one [not even close to the RS4's perfect bland of awesome performance with decent luxury and ride] Unless you race the car EVERY weekend there is no point in a CSL.
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 8:38:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

so? the truth is that if bmw were to add 100 pounds for an AC unit and a CD/radio, michelin ps2 tires and $5,000 over the price of a lightweight m3 csl, it'd still be faster around a track than a rs4 i'm sure. i know i'm just speculating, but you can't really compare all these cars together because the price range, displacement, options are soooo different. the m3 csl might be too raw for the streets, but that's like saying, "should i get a c6 corvette or a z06", or "should i get a porsche carrera 4s or a gt3?" it's all really up to the individual. i'd personally take a z06 over anything, even in heavy traffic.

besides, the truth is that the s4 is a better competitor to the m3.

at least now everyone knows that csl is faster around the track than rs4. i know a few ppl here have been claiming otherwise. i don't want to say who...
— validus00 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/15/2006 9:11:44 PM | | Votes: 3

You're a fuckin moron chewy... "No point in a CSL", I'm a "BMW fan boy" and I'd take the CSL over the standard M3 in heartbeat... so what if it doesn't have electric seats, I'm the only operson that drives my car and I move the seat approximately once a year! and why exactley do I need heated seats or leather? nice options yes - but deciding factors in buying a car? NO.

The CSL is better than the standard M3 in every way that is important to me.

I'm not sure if it's available stateside, but what about the M3 CS ? best of both worlds?
— matt635 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 5:27:46 PM | | Votes: 2

Please don't forget that CSL is limited at 175 mph and not 155 like audi! It is also suplied with semi-slick tires wich can and will help to get a hell of a lap time!! The response from Audi might be quite simple, they do what they have done with the rs6 and create a rs4+, remember that the old rs6+ had 30 more hp and was limited to 175 also and we can see that audi is not realy caring with the speed limiter (R8)!!! About lexus response, there is no need to talk about it, when they launch the IS500 we can discuss better!!!
— Ventura (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 3:35:26 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Sorry, the 335i kills the IS350 on the track and in everyday performance.

Oops, I just slammed Lexus...
— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 9:12:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

The R8 does not have a speed limiter and will reach up to 187 miles per hour.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 9:25:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Look at the 350Z's numbers compaired to the Porshe's
— G35Lover (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 10:57:25 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

"You really sound like a reliable and unbiased person... NOT..." good one MDalle, that reminded me for movie Borat.

Hi fiiive.

G
— RefuG (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 1:53:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

"GermanNut" just shut-up about the R8! I know your excited about the fact that for ONCE... Audi will have a car for a year or two that can outperform any BMW.

Good for you...enjoy your 15 minutes of performance fame because us BMW boys have been enjoying a lifetime of it!
— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 2:55:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

GermanNut

The M10/Z10 will out preform any lambo/audi/ferrari on a racetrack/

Im just being stupid sorry. . . But germannut it anoying.
— M53R (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 4:29:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

you BMW fan boys?????

I should be the BIGGEST BMW fan boy this site has ever seen and that includes the now banned Logical.

I will celebrate in style that now we have cars from both brands and each brand has designed incredibley capable and exotic looking cars with the performance to match.

I think I'm going to turn myself into a BMW lunatic once I get my car and start ragging on Audi since I will no longer have one and we will have 5 BMWs at once making it all the more celebratory.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 5:12:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

germannut,

Please I beg you, replace all your BMW's with Audi's. I fear you reflect badly on the brand!
— matt635 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 5:29:23 PM | | Votes: 0

no we don;t want him here at Audi

go to Lexus
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 9:13:00 PM | | Votes: 3

335i for me. Montego Blue on either Saddle Brown with burl walnut or Black with Grey Poplar or alumnium with premium, sport, cold weather packages, navi, satellite radio and park distance.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 5:47:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

It's a good choice I guess.
— matt635 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 6:23:42 PM | | Votes: 2

Make up your mind "Nut"...BMW or Audi...I think your loyalty remains with Audi.
— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 11/16/2006 6:57:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

omg i prefer to kill myself than c GermanNut in the BMW camp!!!!!
— M53R (View Profile)

Posted on 11/17/2006 7:22:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

OMFG!!!!!
Audi R8 is not the car to make the rules especially not with the V10, and old BMW M3 cannot compete with the new RS4.

Whatever, its useless
— CarNut (View Profile)

Posted on 11/17/2006 12:18:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

I see that the M3 CSL beat the Mercedes SLR McLaren around the Nordschleife and set the same time as it around Hockenheim...
— Wazz (View Profile)

Posted on 11/17/2006 5:40:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

And the fact that we got the M3 CSL here in South Africa and the US didn't is quite funny (we got 50) at just under R1 million (about $135 000)
— Wazz (View Profile)

Posted on 11/17/2006 5:43:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

CPILLAR, I'm sure it took you quite awhile to find this. You're a little too stubborn for your own good.

If there was an RS4 CSL, it would demolish any M3, including the M3 GTR.

A BMW has been defeated. Admit it.

The new M3 will be better, but that's irrelevant.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/19/2006 1:24:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Yes, I know.

The new M3 will beat the RS4... I think. BMW needs this to up their image.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/19/2006 9:57:52 PM | | Votes: 0

darn right
— abitz (View Profile)

Posted on 11/24/2006 10:06:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

darn right
— abitz (View Profile)

Posted on 11/24/2006 10:06:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

darn right
— abitz (View Profile)

Posted on 11/24/2006 10:06:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

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OLD M3 Spanks NEW RS4??

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