Out of Control?:Senate Proposes Horsepower Limits to Force Gas Saving in U.S.

What could be more unamerican than this? From muscle cars to horsepower limits...

— 02WRX (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 1:05:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I agree. If I want a car that gets 8 MPG then so be it. The government doesn't pay for my gas, I do. What the Senate should do is relax the emissions standards especially on diesel cars if they want more fuel savings. Many of the diesel cars in Europe don't make it over here because the emissions standards are so strict for them.

— captainnemojr (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 1:22:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Maybe Americans should start paying Euro fuel prices! That'd soon persuade them to scale down their vehicles!

— matt635 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 1:25:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

Maybe manually shifting cogs should be illegal too. Government issue GM 4-speed for all! how about standard issue Ford Vulcan V-6s across the board as well.

— nembogt (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 1:32:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

I'm not opposed to a version of it. There should be some sort of mandatory ratio of HP to MPG to avoid a tweaked guzzler tax. For instance, if your S4 gets 15/21mpg when an A4 can get 34/25, then you should probably be taxed in the amount it takes the efficiency balance to be "carbon neutralized." By the way, that's where all the money collected should go, to offsetting the environmental impact. If someone wants a 500hp car don't make it illegal, just make them responsible for the unnecessary CO2 impact. Now to apply this for different mileages...

— thetanman (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 1:35:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Agreed. If it meets the MPG then who cares how it is done. (I'll bet you'll get an eyeful of LS hybrids at next year's Oscars)

— thetanman (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 1:47:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Not hybrids, not soon anyway, but the points is taken. They should observe the emission, not the hp.

— rg12345 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 4:35:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Next thing you know, all cars will be electronically limited with a 65MPH speed limit. By these senators logic, why not outlaw private boats and aircraft too? No one needs these items. Let's hope the insanity stops now.

— supermoto (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 2:08:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

Instead of the current bill they should offer tax incentives for anyone who buys a vehicle with a 35 average MPG. If they are really serious they should have the tax incentives set at very high rates.

— Terminal10 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 2:57:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I agree with one of the previous posters that said a better way would be to just jack up gas taxes and make gas prices here like those in Europe, over $4.00 a gallon. This will naturally stimulate demand for higher MPG vehicles.

— skinny (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 3:28:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

If they apply this standard, it better apply to car and trucks/suv's. Right now the gas guzzler tax applies only to cars, and not trucks and SUV's. In my opinion this is total BS!

— hitec (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 4:08:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

tax the hell out of gas. That's a much better economic solution, and people don't feel forced to buy weaker cars, they can still choose, but they pay the price in gas tax. make it 5 dollars a gallon, same as in Britian. And tax cars based on emissions, again, like they do in Britian.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 5:03:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

I see the socialist euro's are contributing heavily on this one. Tax Tax Tax Tax!!!! That is all Europe is about. Look we here in Capitalist Land buy what we want and have the freedom to choose. In europe their high gas prices have crippled their economies and you are on your way to bread lines and rations!! This will never fly and I see that it was proposed by the Demmy's. Just one more thing they want to do to try and make us move more towards socialism.

This has nothing to do with limiting horse power, global warming, etc.... This has to do with imposing restrictions and taking more taxpayers money for social programs!!!!

Once again I will state that liberals kill people with their programs and regulations. This proposed horsepower limit would hamper a car and certainly end up killing people who tried to pull out into traffic, etc...!!!

— jasongoudie (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 6:09:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

they should change the emissions to allow bluetec cars and most clean diesels, and apply gas guzzler tax to consumer trucks.

— EvoAudi (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 7:22:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

THIS PLAIN AND SIMPLY SUCKS!

You can the manufacturers, but you can never limit the aftermarket (legally or illegally). Why not put restrictions on everything that people like to do, that would make the people happy.

— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 7:22:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

You know what this means - used car values are going to go up.

— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 7:26:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Amen ! Finally somebody who understands what this nation is all about. Taxing gas is a flat tax that will affect the poor far more then the rich. American cities do not have alterantives to auto transport like the cities in Europe. We already have gas guzzler tax. I frankly believe that this change must come from the people, whereby we use smarter cars, that are more fuel efficient, rather that living by Bureaucrat Mandate from Capitol Hill...

Please keep your tax and expensive GAS in Europe. They subsidize diesel beacause it is used by the transportation industry. Frankly , Europe goes for a socuialist solution because that best meets its needs. ( or at least it thinks it does) . With most Eurpoean economies in the toilet one doesent feel the need to emulate them.

— izfuney (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 7:44:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

EvoAudi???? Tax Commercial Trucks. We don't want diesels here. I don't want to have to plug my car in and keep it running when it is cold in the winter.

All taxing commercial trucks would do is cripple the economy by rasing the price of good and thus killing poor people in the process.

I don't know why liberals and socialist are always looking for a hand out. Go make a living do some hard work not trying to impose more tax on someone and essentially stealing their money. Do I need to post the history of the world again?? Ok I will!!

— jasongoudie (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 8:45:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

World History - As it Really Was

Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter.
The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer. These were the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:
1. Liberals
2. Conservatives
Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery.
*_That's how villages were formed._*
Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is
*_known as the Conservative movement_*.
Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly B-B-Q's and doing the sewing, fetching, and hair dressing.
*_This was the beginning of the Liberal movement._*
Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women.
*_The rest became known as girliemen_*.
Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that conservatives provided.
Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass.
Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare.
Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men.
Most social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals.
Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't fair to make the pitcher also bat.
Conservatives drink domestic beer. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police officers, corporate executives, athletes, Marines, and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living.
Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America. They crept in after t

— jasongoudie (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 8:49:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Now do you see my point. Raising tax and regulating people is wrong and a very liberal idea!!

VIVA LA Horse Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

— jasongoudie (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 8:51:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

"If you are a liberal before your 30 you have no heart, a liberal after 30 you have no brain"

I always that was funny.

— no1listensanyway (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 9:08:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

Not the way to go. #1 easiest way to reduce fuel consumption: place a gas guzzler tax on SUVs and pickups. We can't have 8 million of these 14 mpg guzzlers be sold each year and given a free pass.

#2 Diesels are coming with easy 30% increase in fuel economy.

— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 9:16:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

The bill that was proposed asks for gasoline consumption to be reduced (25 mpg average to 35 mpg average) by whatever means necessary (e.g. through use of alternative fuel sources, etc.). It does not require a reduction in power.

Here's a link: http://feinstein.senate.gov/07releases/r-teninten.htm

— zsz1 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 11:20:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I have a better idea, outlaw diesel passenger cars to reduce oil consumption and force V8 trucks to become I4 and V6 diesels.

Just like you can inflate horsepower by adjusting math numbers, you can deflate them too.

Chewy,
30% increased mileage comes at a price of 25% more oil required to produce. How many times do I have to tell you for it to sink in? Diesel cars are for backward places like Europe.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2007 11:39:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

Im not for this HP limit thing!! All for higher MPG though. I say TAX worthless SUV. All driven by soccer moms who have an image problem anyways. Raise the gas guzzler tax on SUV buyers. (unless the buyer has to use it for work of course)

— louisvuittondon (View Profile)

Posted on 3/8/2007 1:25:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I'll pay more tax ok? Forget about that bill....! I want more HORSEPOWER!

— SHERR (View Profile)

Posted on 3/8/2007 7:36:37 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

So if it's the same, why use diesel when gas by itself is cleaner? Where'd your 10% come from? I'll show you where 25% came from for the 100th time if you want.

Passenger diesels are useless.

Hybrids get the same 30% as diesel but use nearly 50% less oil. Get that?

A V8 gas engine is probably as dirty as a V6 diesel, but atleast the diesel can pull just as much using less oil, or more with the same amount.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/8/2007 8:34:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

George,
Incorrect. Diesel contains more carbon because it hasn't been refined as much.
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/fuel_economy/the-diesel-dilemma.html
The magic link that no one has yet been able to refute.
It even includes Chewy's most valid arguement about the free ride SUVs and 8500lb vehicles get. I'm all for it. If you can afford the vehicle, you can afford the tax.

I've never argued that diesels were less efficient on the LA to NYC daily commute, but even now hybrids are catching up because better batteries and electric motors allow them to take reliance away from gas engines. Case in point, the 2006 to 2007 Prius EPA went climbed to 67 city/71 highway. That should push it up past the 50mpg real world mileage mark. Diesels are barely breaking 40mpg, and according to the EPA, the Jetta TDI consumes 10 barrels of oil per year vs. the Prius' 5.2

And also, most ppl would fly from NYC to LA. Most :)

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/8/2007 10:57:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Nuff said chewy...thats rite chew into them..US have to get serious about saving on gas, and stop the lip service..Yes get more horsepower but yeah support more terrorists and leftis governments...The american consumer needs to wake up and see what their will to choose is creating...I say tax the SUVs and any gas guzzlers that makes more sense...ensure that if a poor man is willing to spend on a corolla he won't die at the pumps...

— kurtismac (View Profile)

Posted on 3/9/2007 3:19:43 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Those morons shouldn't limit horse power! Simply impose the average fuel mielage to there 35mpg and if a given auto company can squeeze 300hp out of it and still achieve 35-40mpg even better! I am still looking forward to those gas motors that work like a diesel, I forget there name but they run on the same high compressoion and improved fuel savings...

— truckmen (View Profile)

Posted on 3/9/2007 5:34:30 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

You people wanted the Democrat liberals and voted for them. Now you got them!

— 993Turbo (View Profile)

Posted on 3/9/2007 6:46:29 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

This is a bunch of politicians that can't think for themselves! The enviroment is definatly important and we all need to do our part, Europe does this by increasing inshurance rates for more horse power.How about just set the standard at 35pmg and have as many HP as you can get as long as it still gets 35mpg! Is that too tough to figure out! Would they limit HP on an electric car? They still get paid no matter how dumb they are!

— truckmen (View Profile)

Posted on 3/9/2007 5:15:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Chewy,
Please read my posts carefully. I did make a mistake though, it's 71 city/67 highway.
http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/18/wo/Home.Vehicles.Prius-6EBJuSsbYZzn3BtNd33jKg/3.11?v169040e%2ehtml#FUEL

www.toyota.ca
FUEL ECONOMY L/100 Km (mpg)
Fuel Consumption Rating [City/Highway]

4.0/4.2 (71/67)

It's still EPA, but it should still push the current 45mpg real world up to 50mpg.

Prius and TDI get 30% more mileage, but one uses SIGNIFICANTLY less oil. The Prius is basically a hybrid Corolla anyway.

Left over oil. Yeah, so all the filth left over is pumped into the air. It could be used to make asphalt and petrochemicals instead.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/9/2007 7:52:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Chewy,
That 10% more energy you refer to is most efficient for towing.

i.e. Sweat represents emissions and the same amount of water comes out that goes in.

Take a 150lb guy running with a 50lb pack. Say it's a piece of cake for him and he needs 2L of water on a 5km jog. He represents gasoline.
Now take a 200lb guy (more dense so to speak) who can just as easily carry the 50lb pack, but he needs 3L of water to run the 5km jog. He can just as easily jog carrying 100lbs. He represents diesel.
Now, which guy is more efficient if all you need him to do is jog 5km with a 50lb bag (sort of like a daily commute).

A hybrid guy would be 100lbs pulling a wagon. He needs 2L of water to run 5km but can pull 100lbs on the wagon.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/9/2007 8:02:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Inversely, the hybrid guy could jog the 5km pulling 50lbs and need only 1L of water, and thereby perspiring out 1L of sweat.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/9/2007 8:03:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

My analogy clear?

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/9/2007 8:04:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Goddamn Dem's at it again. How many times do we have to tell them - STOP STEALING OUR MONEY AND TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS - LEAVE US ALONE!!!

— BMW740Z4 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/10/2007 1:02:14 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I wish this is the most critical issue the country is facing- shame...
I would expect them to figure out a way to resolve the serious issues we face today:
1. IRAQ and the Security of this country.
2. Health Care system.
3. Education system
4. Future economic growth of the Country.

And what are they talking about- limiting HP on cars, how will this impact the country directly.
Shame,shame,shame..

— AdmiralT20 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/10/2007 11:46:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1