RANT: Where Is BMW Going?

going down in design department IMO.

JUGNU

— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 5:01:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8   

"Where Is BMW Going?"

Nowhere. BMW never went broke underestimating the stupidity of its buyers. As long as the morons are spending money, it's business as usual at BMW.

— sector (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 5:32:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Almost makes you long for the days of Chris Bangle!!

— kuvakas1 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 5:38:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

what's wrong with BMW building the X5/6 M??? No one questions Porsche building a Cayenne Turbo S or Benz building an ML63/G55. And BMW must know what they're talking about given that the X5/6 M is .2 of a second quicker to 60 than the porsche that costs $35,000 more.

Bottom line: BMW doesnt give a crap what you think. When you're at the top, everyone will try and emulate you and tear you down simultaneously, so the more they hear of haters ranting about thier cars, the better job they assume they must be doing.

So be my guest....rant away!!

— schnell330i (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 6:48:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

what's wrong with BMW building the X5/6 M??? No one questions Porsche building a Cayenne Turbo S or Benz building an ML63/G55. And BMW must know what they're talking about given that the X5/6 M is .2 of a second quicker to 60 than the porsche that costs $35,000 more.

Bottom line: BMW doesnt give a crap what you think. When you're at the top, everyone will try and emulate you and tear you down simultaneously, so the more they hear of haters ranting about thier cars, the better job they assume they must be doing.

So be my guest....rant away!!

— schnell330i (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 6:48:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

I have to agree with schnell here. BMW is not building cars to fit some sort of grand model that critics like yourself have built. In fact, they are not building cars for you at all and could not care less about your thoughts. They are building cars that their market research tells them the average consumer wants. Even now, the average consumer is looking for a crossover type vehicle with killer HP. Rant all you want. All you achieve in ranting is making yourself look like an idiot.

— LJ745 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 7:49:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

I laugh, the majority of people I see complaining about bmw also were the ones who complained about bangles designs. BMW has progressed so many times over in the past decade, I don't know personally where they are going but hopefully their quest for niche markets strikes gold... especially as people move away from suv's and back towards station wagons again.

— Joe_Limon (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 8:03:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

"The ///M division, IMO, should be strictly purist: 6 speed manual transmissions, naturally aspirated engines, ultra-lightweight body components. They don't have to be the fastest in a straight line but they should handle like no other and be fun as hell to drive. IMO, the weight limit for a ///M division vehicle should be 3500lbs."

See, here is a guy who gets it.

— Agent00R (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 12:13:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

GreenPlease,

Why would a Forced Induction engine be considered as non "Purist"?

Turbos provide more performance. I would think that a purist would like that. Not to mention that the highest performance production car utilizes Turbos.

Look at it this way. If Purists dictated the direction of development then innovation would be non existent. We wouldn’t have things like Twin-Clutch transmissions (which I love and I’m a serious enthusiast), Forced induction engines (which have proven to offer superior performance and efficiency, BMW 335 anyone?), Anti-lock brakes, Traction Control, the list goes on and on.

I think the term Purists is being misused here. I always thought that a Purist is a person who wants minimal driver aids. I never knew that adding a turbo would make an engine less pure. Why is the line drawn at turbos? Why not dislike things like 4-valve cylinder heads, twin-cams, and Direct-Injection?

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 11:39:22 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Because from a racing standpoint, turbo's will and always will lag. Sure you can minimize it, but the more hard core you go the more it will bother you having to hit the gas and let off in the corners so you don't spin out. Naturally aspirated engines although not as powerful will always be more reliable and be more predictable. Even supercharges can get power surges... not that they aren't fun, it just seriously hampers how comfortable one can be with a car. And at the end of the day if you aren't comfortable and able to predict how it's going to handle, you have a poor handling car. That is why some "purists" prefer n/a.

— Joe_Limon (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 12:14:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

From a Racing standpoint?

Not to keep going on but, you do realize that rally cars are turbocharged? If rally cars were forced to use NA engines, the engine would have to be a large displacement (read: heavy) engine. Weight is the number 1 enemy of racecars btw. What else? Champcars used turbos for decades before they went out of business. Champcars raced on road courses among other venues. And then there are the drift-cars that use turbos. Drifting requires precise throttle management from the driver. If a Turbo’s were unpredictable then the drifters wouldn’t use them. There are plenty of different types of racecars that use forced-induction. Top Fuel dragsters are another type of race car that use Forced-induction. If someone is unable to drive them efficiently they are either driving a car that is out of tune, or they don’t really know how to drive a race car imo.

It still boils down to preference but current turbo charged cars give up nothing to their NA counterpoints especially when it comes to racing. In fact the turbo charged engines are better for racing because they put out large-displacement power without the weight penalty of a large-displacement engine. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 1:21:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Instead of de-boosting me, why don't you just provide a valid couterpoint? I Guess whoever it was that de-boosted me doesn't have a counterpoint. LOL!!!

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 1:58:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Could not agree more. Call it an is or a ti or tii or anything except an M car. I might be willing to go up to like 3800 lbs for the M5 however ;-)

— valhallakey (View Profile)

Posted on 7/10/2009 1:47:22 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

yeah, so many people complained about bangle, yet during Bangle's time at BMW, BMW sold more cars than ever. Case in point: the most highly criticized Bangle BMW, the last generation 7 series, was the best selling of any 7 series before it, so like said before, BMW obviously knows what they are doing

— schnell330i (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 8:13:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Lets make something clear here. What we BMW fanatics are mad about is not that these cars won't sell. They will sell, probably in mass quantities.

What we're pissed off about is what has happened to the BMW name. When you buy a Ferrari, you expect certain traits (glorious engines, sinewy responses, near-perfect driving dynamics). This was once true for M-cars and even BMW's - but these new introductions are destroying that.

So they can sell as many as they want, but BMW's will no longer be posted on every kids bedroom wall. I fear the day when Ferrari introduces a new SUV.

— henbmw (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 8:58:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Another mid-summer (lack of car news) post. Who cares as long as the keep making fun to drive cars and keep making money. Porsche has its turbo S Cayennes Mercedes has AMG SUV and Audi has its monster V12 TDI. So what is the X6M all about? Being competitive.

Car and Driver-
"
But does anybody really need a Nürburgring-tuned, four-seat SUV in the first place? We’re not here to pass judgment, but we can tell you that if you want such a thing, the X6 M is the perfect choice."

Look I don't get this class of vehicle but the sell. So if BMW can make money on the monster like this and keep making cars like the 135i's, Godspeed.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 9:09:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

Perhaps its not even the kind of cars BMW is releasing as of late, its the timing. I don't see how the M variants of these cars will sell in this economy and do anything profitable for BMW. Also looking at the designs of their competition. Audi's new design language, that of the A5, new A4, and the yet to be unveiled new A7 and A8, MB's new E Classes, i love the S Class, it looks so official, Telsa, Fisker, their competitors designs look like they belong in the future and next generation of cars, but BMW's are already looking outdated, the 7 is alright, the X1 looks like its been out for 3 years already and it hasnt been released, the 1 series compared to the A3 is ridiculous. I don't know what BMW is doing but hey, i guess they are making dough (hopefully). BMW is making strange choices as of late and as a fanboy, i don't know what to think, where to stand or how to approach the brand.

— spiritfilled (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 9:42:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

Schnell,
Like BMW knew what they were doing putting out the X6. Anyone can sellout if they only produce 10 a month.

Kuvakas,
Who? Never heard of him. Probably some nobody who only made it big because a yuppie brand hired and then fired him for Fiat inspired crap.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 9:45:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

BMW is going where the moneys at.

— KZ258 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 9:47:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

No matter what designs they come out with.No matter what motors they place in what cars.No matter the price.They will sell.Why? because of the name.People will pay more for brand name and bragging rights. Look at Range Rover.Year after year Range Rover reliability is at the bottom of the list,yet its a fashion statement. A white Range on 22's means you have $ and $ earns respect.

— rxh8me9000 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/8/2009 11:30:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

I don't get all the whining about the X5/6 M cars. As long as they are adding newer models and not diluting existing ones, I am all for it. They have teams getting paid and having to fight to make a business case for all these cars, and I trust these guys to do it much better than you.

Quit your whining (lol @ the poster whos said every porsche owner died a little when the cayenne came out) and don't buy the car--if u don't like it its not for you, but there are many like me who want a little bit of this and a little bit of that and don't have a 3 car drive way or a budget so I am as and existing BMW customer very excited about the prospect of being able to get the right combination of utility, style, performance and uniqueness that all the new models are bringing to BMW.

If you think M3 an M5 should be the only ones, go get an M3 or an M5--I don't see anyone stopping you.

— rumnyc (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 2:14:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

"The ///M division, IMO, should be strictly purist:"

Yes agree and it's sad. Like Porsche, BMW M is not pure anymore.
But i have no doubt, X6M will be stunning performance SUV. And also i am sure one of it's prime markets will be Middle East. Here people love crossovers and SUVs and with this much performance, there is a big chance they will choose it over M5, S63, Quattroporte type of cars.

JUGNU

— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 2:47:04 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

why do you guys even bother with this shit? just because in your small opinion a car may seem pointless or ugly or whatever, doesn't mean others do. no company, bmw include, makes a product just for shits and giggles. the research for months if not years in advance to ensure a produce will sell before sinking money into it. bmw has been around for a long damn time. i'm sure they know what they are doing.

— sstainba (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 9:32:45 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Purist = People who are set in thier old-fashioned ways and are unwilling to accept any change. Even if the change provides more performance. Purists are idiots.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 11:06:29 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Let's look at the X6M

Does it offer amazing best in class performance? Yes
Does it offer best in class handling? Probably
Does it offer the best, most powerful engine in it's class? Yes
Does it look extremely sporty, with nice a nice body? Yes

Sounds like a good performance SUV for me! At least now people can actually drive a fast car that handles well without having to worry about touching the ground every time!

— M53R (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 11:58:18 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Wow...BMW....ooooo....aaaaaa....NOT!!!!!!

No? Wait!!
EVERYONE HAS ONE

Next they will make an M Big Wheel for the Childrens!!!

— pennfootball (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 12:31:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

M Division will success...But X6 or X6M will fail.... I thing BMW is doing good business desicions but X6, 5GT or 3 GT are wrong....M is a good option for people that can not afford an S Porsche or an AMG...and in some cases with better performance for your money.....If MB and Porsche have High performance divisions, why BMW should not have a full M divison?....Now do not get me wrong. Those divisions are just for IMAGE, cause most of those cars are very expensive, they are not high volume sellers. So At this point the question is: Is this the right time to expand the M division?...time will tell us the history...

— Yonder7 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 12:42:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Jeez i dont understand "purists." All you do is spend your time complaining about how much better things used to be, while the world passes you by with its continuous improvement, progress and change.

So let me ask you: Yes the first generation BMW M's from 20+ years ago where more "pure" but name me a car manufacturer that has made their cars "purer" through 20+ years of evolution??? (or are more pure today than they were 20+ years ago) None that i can think of! Fact is, you wouldn't be able to sell an e30 M3 if it were new today. Not only would it not pass ANY modern crash safety standards, or emissions tests for that matter, but you as a consumer would be an idiot to buy it over the faster, bigger, safer, less expensive, more fuel efficient, more luxurious, run-of-the-mill Honda Accord!!!!! I think Audi says it nicely: "Progress is beautiful" and "Vorsprung durch technik"

Bottom line (again): BMW doesnt give 2 shits what you think. So "purists," you might as well stop your crotchety old-man complaining as all youre doing is wasting your time. Still think you're God's gift to car enthusiasts?? Well then lets see you build a 2000lb wonder car that has better performace, price, safety, efficiency, features etc than the modern day competition. With that said, BMW is a company made of hardcore enthusiasts that know how to build a damn good car, and i'm sure that if they wanted to, they have the know-how to build a 2500lb M5 but it would be impossible to sell a $300,000 carbon fiber sedan.

If anything, you "purists" need to be giving props to BMW for making heavy modern cars drive like they do with their industry leading use of thermoplastics, carbon fiber etc. Who wouldve thought a 5000lb+ top-heavy SUV could lap a track faster than an e46 M3!!? Progress is beautiful.

So go ahead and be a crotchety old purist grinch as the world passes you by. See where that gets you.

BMW FTW

— schnell330i (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 3:43:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

First and foremost, the X6 is not confusing in any way to its target market. BMW would have never created the car otherwise. And some of them have the money (and desire) to have an ///M version. What's the problem?

— thstone (View Profile)

Posted on 7/9/2009 5:39:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1