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REVIEW: C350-Has Mercedes finally floored the BMW 3-Series?

Agent001 submitted on 03/16/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 1:31 AM
from: www.autocar.co.uk

[117] user comments | category: Spy Shots

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Tags: Mercedes, C350, BMW

Tag Links: Mercedes, C350, BMW

REVIEW: C350-Has Mercedes finally floored the BMW 3-Series?

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Agent004 - 3/16/2007 1:50:01 AMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

Based on the first paragraph, umm, no. :)

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MBKing - 3/16/2007 2:00:50 AM

-2 Boost

The car looks really good, the 335 is turbo charged so of course it's going to be spunkier. The C is a better looking car than the 3, if the C400 biturbo is an option in the future it might be a better competitor on the basis of speed and acceleration. So it really comes down to what you're looking for, if you want a drivers car to race with but is pretty darn ugly than the 335 sedan is for you, if you want a more redefined looking elegant car with some power (272hp is still no joke) then the C is for you. The true test of these two will be the 4 door M3 and the C63. Both are going to put up amazing numbers and look great too. I'm really happy with both car companies in this class. Btw do you think the C63 would ever be tuned to full capacity like it is in the E63. I know it doesn't make much sense for marketing but a C63 with 500+ bhp would be untouchable. Think about it if you can afford a E63 then you're going to get it over the C63 if they both had 500 horses.

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bmur - 3/16/2007 2:30:50 AM

+2 Boost

the c-class looks quite a bit better, ESPECIALLY in black like how they've shown it. But, powerwise it doesnt compare with the 3 series yet

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Agent63 - 3/16/2007 3:24:14 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I don't doubt that the new C-Classes are a lot more powerful than the outgoing model. As I am a die hard Mercedes fan I don't think the C will be as good as a drivers car than the 3. I'm actually currently in the market of a 328i and I think it will out handle this C350. I just don't want to deal with the maintenance of a 335. The turbo's appealing but for a 1 sec 0-60mph difference the extra 10K Canadian isn't worth it for my driving habits.

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woood - 3/16/2007 4:47:35 AM

+7 Boost

The C Class is not aiming to go head to head with the 3 series but on a different level, as a slightly more luxurious alternative to the 3 series. Which results in a more relaxed and smoother ride for everyday use.

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bagwell - 3/16/2007 7:18:34 AM

+3 Boost

well put +2

david999 - 3/16/2007 7:05:26 AM

-8 Boost

Nicer looking model than the outgoing one, but I doubt they will compete with the BMW for the sports driver.

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bagwell - 3/16/2007 7:21:05 AM

+11 Boost

hummm, I don't think the IS350 will outperfrom the 3 series in actual driving comparisons - but as a IS350 owner, I love my car much more than the previous C320 I had.

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M53R - 3/16/2007 8:05:33 AMView My AgentSpace

+11 Boost

Ok , now you are seriosly getting on my nerves. Move your lazy ass and read any magazine about the 3er from BMW. Its the benchmark in its class, and also sells more than twice as many as the IS POS. if you like the IS, I dont have a problem, but if you think its better than the 3er, then go and kill yourself. your stupidity is enough to make the average IQ of the all the people in the world -50.

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Rupert - 3/16/2007 9:10:53 AMView My AgentSpace

+10 Boost

Please, 1 thing.
THe Lexus is the over priced one.

BMW don't do taxis, but mercedes has always and always will, it reinforces their brand image. And if a Merc is good enough to sit in for hours on end in traffic comfortabley, then it's good enoguh for me.
I'm from Europe, and Mercedes being a taxi has no negative bearing on their image. Lexus' image is, however, of a cheap, low prestige Japanese thing. People here would rather have Volvos or Saabs than Lexi. They sell 55000 cars per year here! Audi sells that many A6s in Germany alone.

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1995e34 - 3/16/2007 12:24:38 PM

+6 Boost

being used as a taxi is probably the most abuse a car can endure.



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TheSailor - 3/16/2007 12:25:00 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

You know why Lexus aren't used as taxis in europe? Because they don't offer enough space in the rear! Most european countries (read: the one with money) have minimum requirements for the leg and head room as well as trunk space. Neither the IS or the GS live up to these requirements... Unlike the 5-series, A6 and the E-class (the higher models are too expensive). So nothing short of the LS would suffice as a Taxi overhere! And since there is no LS with a sensible engine, they are to damn expensive!

So the next time you think about using the IDIOTIC taxi argument think about this: The GS isn't good enough to be a taxi! It is not because it is too good, exactly the opposite! Damn, huh?

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1995e34 - 3/16/2007 12:26:53 PM

+3 Boost

you guys are being baited. the guy probably drives a bmw and is laughing all day long. it's like when your girlfriend acts mad so you tell her how much you love her.

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TheSailor - 3/16/2007 12:29:42 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Ohh... And by the way: a Mercedes E320 CDI taxi will go 400.000 km in the country where I live and then be sold only to do an additional 200.000 km as a private car... I'd like to see a GS450h do that, or any other Lexus for that matter...

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jmrA480 - 3/16/2007 1:38:52 PM

+4 Boost

You are on crack, clarkson never said Lexus is on par with RR and bently, he said the LS rode like a RR/bently never said the cars compared to each other. So your saying a IS350 is compared to a rolls or bentley, cause that the way your sentence sounds. The 335i outperforms the 350 in every which way possible and the A4 's interior is best in class not the IS!


And guys please stop responding to this moron, he is on here to try and get a response from us, if we ignore him he we leave, in a nother post he stated that the IS-F would have a higher top speed then the veyron , but it will be limited because of US regulations. Just idiotic comments that need to be ignored.

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TheSailor - 3/16/2007 2:23:01 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Bulldog

What?! My first car was a Toyota Corolla GSi. I've had a Civic 1.6 VTEC and a Nissan Sunny GTI-R (that is Pulsar to you) all while i was under education, didn't see that one comming huh? When I finished te education a few months ago I bought a brand new Seat Leon Cupra (240 hp and $65k). In about a year and a half, I'll be done with my trial period (which equals way better pay) and I'll be upgrading to a larger car. As i mentioned below I was seriously considering an IS350, but since they don't sell it overhere and an IS250 is 100k (US$) there is no way in hell I'll pay for one of those! So, unless someone comes out with anything that can compete, I am pretty sure that the next car to reside in my garage will probably be a BMW 335Ci.

So let me ask you, how many german cars (or japanese for that matter) have YOU actually owned? And why do I need to know and why did you need to know how many japanese cars I have owned?! Don't answer, retorical...
Only people who have owned a Japanese car is entitled to an opinion?! BS! I don't favour a special brand because of the brand! I would love a IS350, I think the LS is one of the best in it's class... And as one among very few, I sort of like the IS-F... Silly fanboy!!!

BTW: I use to drive a taxi while going to maritime college to make a bit extra money, and the owner of the company told me, because i suggested a Lexus GS430 as a taxi, that it didn't live up to the requirements...

Finally, what the H*LL did you mean by "btw, when was the US the country without $$ ??"

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TheSailor - 3/16/2007 2:34:11 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Ohh... And please show me the japanese car that does 600.000 km (400.000 miles)! The only japanese car company i can think of with an engine that might do that is Honda... Or maybe that Nissan truck I see on all the container terminals in the far east! Some of those looks like they've more miles than a 20 year old space shuttle!

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TheSailor - 3/16/2007 2:37:27 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Ahh... Now i get why you asked since when the US wasn't the country with money... I think you miss understood me.. What i meant was countries among the european countries with money, it had nothing with the US to do... But some of the east european countries doesn't have money and their taxis, and cars in general, are not up to the standard of western european countries!

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S4cabriofoxone - 3/18/2007 10:06:07 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"Everyone who shops in this class should opt for the Lexus IS350. You get a fun car for a cheap affordable price that is reliable, has the best interior in class and outperforms the overrated BMW 3 series. Seriously why do people like get a heart attack when the 3 series name is mentioned? Am I the only one who knows that BMW and Mercedes are taxis in Europe? What's so special about them?"

LOL. LOL. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow. What a pusher! You really think everyone in the world should drive a Lexus? LOL!

The IS350 isn't any more affordable than the other cars in this class. The '06 C350 is a steal, because you can get it before the '07 (or '08 or whatever) comes out. There are also giveaway leases on the A4 and 3er. None of the cars in this class's prices are different enough to be considered significant. There's, what, a $4,000 gap between the least expensive and most expensive?

Best interior in class? Can you prove it? Honestly, I'd really like to know. There's NO WAY TO PROVE THIS. Can you get that through your fu¢king microscopic head?

OUTPERFORMS THE 3 SERIES?!?!?!??!!??!?!?!?!?! HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Good, I got that one out...

Don't even get me started on the R-R/Bentley vs. Lexus thing. Get over it. They're not competitors, and as long as VW and BMW own them, the high-end Brits never will be.

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zorbeeze - 3/19/2007 11:43:48 AM

+1 Boost

You're beyond ignorant thinking Japaneese cars don't last long. Did your mom drop you on your head? I'm a big Lexus fan and i'll admit that Lexus does not do certain things up to par compared to BMW oe Mercedes but at least be man enough to admit that there are other aspects in which BMW or Mercedes is not up to par with Lexus. They all have their different field in which they excell. After that it's up to the consumer to determine which is more important.

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wanga - 3/26/2007 11:44:21 AM

+1 Boost

I had a 1985 honda Accord DX 1.8 eng 5 spd manual tranny AC,Power steering,i sold it for $1500.00 with 397000 miles>engine and tranny were excellent,i did basic service Brake and oil change,i replace the timing belt 3 times ,the starter once,the aternater,2
times and the roc and pinion once.The guy that bought
live in the bloc with me,he took to maaco to completely restore the body and paint it

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BMW4me4ever - 3/16/2007 9:18:26 AMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

bulldog ... I am on my 5th BMW. I have had a 97 Z3 2.8L, 98 328i, 88 528e, 06 330xi & 07 335 coupe ... In all the BMW's I have owned have not had any of the shop problems that you like to mention.

In regards to driving dynamics, the IS and the G35 do not compete really well with the 3-series. I have driven both very extensively at driving events and in classrooms. The new G35 is a much nicer improvement over the previous model. Especially the engine, due to its much more lively response, but the car has the same issues as before in regards to handling and steering response. It is numb and doesnt have the direct feel and response as the BMW does. The BMW drives on rails. You feel when you drive that the car will go Exactly where you want it to.

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BMW4me4ever - 3/16/2007 10:17:23 AMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

But people like yourself justify that with crap like "well, you gotta take the good with the bad if you want driving perfection". What are you talking about? Repair costs? BMW has had full maint program since 2003. You can also upgrade that service to 6 years or 100k miles whichever comes first from original in service date. Are you talking about the Maint & repair costs after 100k miles? I am sorry for your problems and such. It happens on every car. My family has owned Audi, Jaguar, lexus & infiniti. I can tell you from experience that when I owned a 1999 Infiniti QX4, that it gave me plenty of headaches. If BMW is so unreliable, then why do they sell more cars world wide than everyone else in the luxury car market? Why are they the car to beat time in and time out and set the benchmark for what lexus and infiniti strive for in the sedan makret? If you had so many problems with your first BMW, why did you buy another one? kind of hypocritical if you ask me. If I had such a bad experience with a particular car line or segment, as you state you have had, then I would definitely not buy another. Talk about contradiction at its best. You complain about how horrible the brand is, but you continue to buy them. Even though you are just going from point A to point B. "In the real world no one is carving up corners, they are sitting in rush hour traffic getting from point A to B, I need something more than "magic feel", unfortunately BMW does not equal reliability, never has." Then buy something else and stop complaining about how bad you have it. No one cares about people who cry about one thing then go out and do the same thing over and over again. In my experience for the last 12 years, I have not experienced your issues with BMW. Just my experience though.

1995e34 - 3/16/2007 12:32:56 PM

+4 Boost

i've found the biggest myth in the automotive world to be the high cost of maintenance/repairs for german autos. the things that do get expensive are some of the high end parts, like suspension/engines for m, rs, amg cars.

alternators, radiators, struts, starters, exhaust... it's really not much more than american or japanese cars.

TheSailor - 3/16/2007 2:27:22 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

You didn't get free service because your cars are to old! In europe the service was offered from 2004 i think... My buddy's all new 130i has six years/150.000 km total coverage. If anything breaks, it is replaced at no expence as long as he gets the car serviced when it asks to (free ofcause). The service is $3000 overhere which is cheap when you think of the vehicle cost of 85k.

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wanga - 3/26/2007 11:30:27 AM

+1 Boost

yo,i feel your pain,a friend of mine had so much problems with his MB,trany replaced 5 times and electrical problems are normal,he trade it for a RL,
I suggest that he trade his MB for BMW or a Lexus,he told that he hates Lexus because everyone of his co-worker buy Lexus.I don't like the RL but he,s very happy with his new Acura

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TheSailor - 3/16/2007 12:35:59 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

WOW... Real wood?! I hate wood... In my country, the CHEAPEST LS costs 400.000$. You can have a Mercedes S-class with a 420CDI engine and all conceivable options for 300.000$. Both cars are seriously overpriced due to our tax system, but that is one hell of a difference! Even the S500 is cheaper! I was concidering buying an IS when I get my next car, but when I realised that I couldn't have the IS350 and that the IS250 with the "sport package" which is necessary to get leather seats and AC (yup, even AC isn't standard) it would be US $100k... I got a similar price on an all new 330i with full options after a bit of bargaining!

I would say that is overpriced!

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1995e34 - 3/16/2007 12:39:00 PM

+3 Boost

the lexus is overpriced compared to infiniti most of all. they are not much less expensive than the germans, and offer significantly less in build quality, durability, and performance.

i could care less about "prestige". i'm not even sure of the definition to tell you the truth.

i just don't know any reliable source that will claim the japanese have reached the refinement and build quality of the germans.

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Will_ - 3/16/2007 1:29:24 PM

-1 Boost

"i just don't know any reliable source that will claim the japanese have reached the refinement and build quality of the germans."

*shocked*




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1995e34 - 3/16/2007 1:47:58 PM

+1 Boost

reliable source = mechanics that work on all types of manufacturers.

i spent a couple years working for an autopart store, and would make a point of talking to mechanics about the build of all manufacturers. and many of these guys snobbed the german cars (due to snob-appeal og german car). all had good things to say about japanese cars, but in general thought they were still shy of german durability.

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Will_ - 3/16/2007 3:46:08 PM

-1 Boost

Sure, German durability applied to their products a decade and a half ago, but would they say the same thing of BMWs and Benzes of the mid to late '90s? And going back to your other point, I think most other people can agree that Japanese and American parts are always less expensive to replace than German and British parts. I remember every time my father took one of his older German cars to service shops they would always tell him that they put the most expensive brake pads on his car because he didn't want anything less on his premium automobile. Lexus owners do not get the same treatment...

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TheSailor - 3/16/2007 3:58:41 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

spare parts are not more expensive for german cars! I have a car with mostly german parts (though the car is spanish) and the parts are cheaper than the parts for any other comparable car! Actually the most expensive in the class, the Mazda 3 MPS (Mazdaspeed 3), the spare parts for that cost thrice as much as those for my Cupra!
Actually, due to part sharing, parts for Audis are pretty cheap compared to the competetion! Also, how much are the Lexus parts? Because since their global sales are way smaller than that of their competitors and only the ES shares any parts with a Toyota, it would be natural to think that Lexus parts would be quite costly!

1995e34 - 3/16/2007 4:36:12 PM

0 Boost

to my knowledge, THE benz that had THE issues was the original ML. and to a lesser degree, the e-class had some electronic issues for a few years.

bmw had problems with the 3.0 v8 it offered in the 5-series for a brief period. and there was also a cylinder lining problem with earlier 4.0 e34 v8 5-series.

none of these problems lasted for extended periods, to my knowledge.

and in reference to parts, take a look on line. i almost crapped myself when i saw how close the cost of parts for comparable german, japanese, and in some cases americn cars were.

will, you referenced parts costs from your father's benz from the mid-80's. what 2 things didn't exist as we know them today? internet, and japanese luxury cars. so when the reputation for expensive parts was born, the germans were the only high end import sedans on the market, and the network that has drawn shores closer and closer was not in regular use with respect to auto parts distribution.



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Will_ - 3/16/2007 8:02:11 PM

+1 Boost

Surely, a radiator replacement for a Lexus GS would not cost as much as one for a Mercedes E-Class. A taillight cover for a LS430 would not cost as much as one for an S-Class. And so on...

Threepoint1415926 - 3/16/2007 9:55:57 PM

-1 Boost

I have had every chassis model of the E class since the W123. That would be W123 (240D), W124 (300D 2.5, 400E, 500E), W210(E430 Sport) and W211(E320 CDI) and I can say with much certainty that although my W123 and W124's were built the best followed directly by the w211,the W210 has been the most trouble free and reliable. Nothing and I mean NOTHING has ever gone wrong with this car in the 100K miles I've owned it. No, I doubt it will last the half million miles my 240D did but "falling quality" in that context means my E430 sport will still outlast my intentions for it.

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Will_ - 3/16/2007 10:38:56 PM

+1 Boost

I owned a W124 300E, and my family has owned the W210 and W211. The 124 was a rock. With the 210, the "falling quality" did apply. I'm always amazed by all the people here on this site that have seemed to miraculously be exempt from German quality issues.

markusck - 3/17/2007 9:48:59 AM

+2 Boost

Well, maybe that should tell you something about the perceived quality issues we all seem to take for granted...

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1995e34 - 3/17/2007 10:53:58 AM

+1 Boost

radiator for 2000 e320: $215
radiator for 2000 gs300: $205

i've honestly not been able to find a single benz part that was significantly more than the comparable lexus part. maybe there's a part out there i haven't found yet, but parts prices are EERILY similar

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1995e34 - 3/17/2007 10:56:27 AM

+1 Boost

you had a 500e? i still caan't get my hands on one for under $25k (in the right condition)

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Threepoint1415926 - 3/17/2007 7:49:41 PM

+1 Boost

Maybe it's because the cars are more reliable that people give them credit. Then again, mine is a 2000 model... it'd been in production for 5 years by then with many of the bugs worked out. And, the 430 motor was an evolution of the 420 that had been used since 92. I remember the problems with the w211 were almost exclusively in 2003 which sorta follows along those same ideas. Mine is an '04 model and has no problems yet. It made a funny sound once when temps outside got to 115 one day...

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Threepoint1415926 - 3/17/2007 7:50:59 PM

+2 Boost

Correction, I HAVE a 500E... Wont ever give that baby up! NEVER!

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1995e34 - 3/18/2007 5:23:49 AM

+1 Boost

a classic. i think i've only seen like 3 in person

zorbeeze - 3/19/2007 11:49:16 AM

+1 Boost

OK seriously where do you live. I have to go check Lexus' website for that country and price an LS. If i had to guess you're probably like fifteen years old and are jealous of your neighboors Mercedes while you're daddy drives you around in a ten year old Lada.

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BMW4me4ever - 3/16/2007 9:32:40 AMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Bulldogz ... In the US the IS350 is the same money as the 335. Actually, with the maintenance and BMW assist the BMW is actually a few thousand less expensive than the IS350. Also, Lexus, BMW & Mercedes offer real wood. Status is important and so is ego. Never underestimate that. Bulldog, you may not agree and don't look at things in that perspective, but being in the business with BMW & Mercedes it does carry alot of validity. People want the best of the best in this income and job level. Rolls is not the most reliable car, but still people wait in line for years to get one. Range Rover is one of the least reliable trucks on the market, but I bet that most of the afluent people have one or had one in their stable of cars. In the market that I work in, most of our clients have more than one car. It is not very uncommon to see a ferrari, BMW & Mercedes in the driveways at all times. It is all about the Joneses?

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Will_ - 3/16/2007 9:51:07 AM

-2 Boost

Speaking of the IS350, keep in mind that a fully-loaded IS350 will NOT run you more than a full-equipped 3-Series. Most 3-Series models actually sold are not fully-equipped with navi and such.

Out of the three though, I would agree that the 3-Series and G35 are the more sport-oriented, and the C-Class and IS350 are the more luxury-oriented choices. It's a pretty safe observation.

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1995e34 - 3/16/2007 12:42:26 PM

+1 Boost

3-series has more options to "fully load" it than the IS does though.

BMW4me4ever - 3/16/2007 1:20:35 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

will .. you didnt either read what I wrote or cant read. I stated that if you option the cars out the same and if one includes the fact that the BMW pays for maint for 4 years or 50k miles into the cost, then the BMW will be less and have a higher resale value to boot. Edmunds.com says that the average cost for maintenance for a IS350 over 3 years is about $1300 ( $450 avg per year ) which for 4 years should total about $1800 to $2000 . The BMW 335 with similar options will be a better value during that term.

Will_ - 3/16/2007 1:26:38 PM

-2 Boost

3-Series does not have "more options," the options simply cost more. Also, Edmunds always rates Lexus vehicles as having better value than most other makes in the business, if you really want to use Edmunds. Where was it that I heard BMW was threw with free maintenance? Or was that merely a rumor? Even so, there's no doubt in my mind that the Lexus would need less maintenance in the first place. Finally, Lexus and BMW both have high resale values, Lexus for how well their cars hold up and BMW for...

1995e34 - 3/16/2007 1:50:58 PM

+1 Boost

last i checked, bmw had more options available. perhaps it changed over the past couple weeks.

BMW4me4ever - 3/16/2007 1:58:42 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

will ... BMW has never said that they were done with the maintenance. I agree with Bulldogz, in that at the prices for these cars maintenance should be included. Audi discontinued theirs, Mercedes did also, & even your beloved lexus dabbed in it a year or so ago and then stopped. Mercedes stopped cause of the cost and the fact they were not selling as many cars. So they needed to conserve the overall costs. Audi stopped for similar reason.

Will ... the average person in the US drives anywhere from 15 to 16k miles per year. 1st service on a lexus is at 7500 or 8500 miles. Average oil service is $ 125 to $150 per visit. Over the course of 4 years that comes to about $750 in oil changes ... Most likely, someone who is buying the IS350 is a pretty aggressive driver and will go thru a set of brakes and rotors sometime during that time. Most likely front pads and rotors and the rear pads. Estimate a cost of $800 to $1,000 ... Wiper blades depending on where you live ( in midwest probably change out a couple times est $100 ) ... Inspections or tune-ups, if I am not mistaken they are at 40k miles, est $300 to $500 ... Over 4 years the average person that drives in traffic to and from work, could most likely expect to pay $2,150 to do routine service. Give or take a few hundred, that is about the same for Audi, Infiniti, Mercedes, Acura, Cadillac and so on. Nowadays, maint costs about the same for everyone, except BMW cause it is included.

You mention how well that lexus cars hold up. If I am not mistaken, isnt BMW & Mercedes to have on record the only luxury car manufacturers to have a car go over the 1,000,000 mile mark. does lexus have any such car? Look at the fit and finish of a lexus IS250 compared to a BMW 3-series or Mercedes that is 6 years old and there is a huge difference. Mercedes E-class are legendary for how they look and hold up 10 to 15 years later. How a 5-series or 7-series looks 15 years later. The classic design and feel of driving a 735 or 500E or 560sel or 535 and such ....

Will_ - 3/16/2007 3:40:36 PM

-4 Boost

Don't talk to me about fit and finish until you spend time in a Lexus. How many reviews about the 3-Series have stated that BMW interiors just are not up to par with Audi, Mercedes and Lexus interiors? It's no deep dark secret that BMW has some of the worse interiors in the luxury segments.

In your second paragraph, you used the phrase "most likely" alot. This just isn't the case. Most IS350 owners are not driving their car "more agressively." More aggresively than what? The average BMW driver? I applaud BMW for having free maintenance. Like the both of you, I think all these makers should offer free maintenance. However I see a flaw in your assertions. I know of several BMW owners that do not think much of the free maintenance programs. These programs only last around the first 50,000 miles. How many oil changes is that? Probably about two or three for the average driver. After the 50,000 miles is up, you're on your own.I can understand the appeal of most BMW owners leasing their cars. There's free maintenance, plus when all the reliability issues start to spring up, you've probably already gotten a new one anyway. Lexus does not offer free maintenance, but it's also no secret that Lexus maintenance services are considerably cheaper than the Germans. The costs for maintenance will eventually even themselves out among the brands, considering how long you own the BMW.

Having cars reach the 1,000,000 mile mark is of course an accomplishment for brands as old as Mercedes and BMW. When Lexus cars are old enough, I'm sure they will have cars do the same. I know all about the legendary quality of Mercedes, I had a 300E and it was brilliant until the day I sold it.

Will_ - 3/16/2007 3:54:45 PM

-3 Boost

1995e34,

Let's say a "comparably equipped" then...

chuck717 - 3/16/2007 11:37:31 AM

+6 Boost

I agree that MBZ isn't trying to dethrone BMW with its new C-Class. I bought my wife a 07' C230 sport about 6 months ago. She drove the 3 series and liked it and then drove the 230 and liked the interior a little better and the over looks of the Benz.
The car does just fine for her needs and it looks good going down the street plus we paid $31,900 for it a nice deal. Bmw has its thing going for it the driving machine and yes they do handle nice but these German cars no matter who BMW,Audi, MBZ, have this thing that when on the showroom floor you want any one of the three cars, they just get in your head that these are good looking drives and a stated class to go with it.

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Neverfollow - 3/16/2007 11:41:31 AM

-2 Boost

It's sooo amusing to sit back and watch all you BMW, MB, and Lexus fanboys slug it out. It's like watching a soap opera:

Stay tuned next week to see if "Bulldogs" and "BMW4me4ever" fall in love!

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Sauceboy01 - 3/16/2007 11:57:54 AM

-2 Boost

That's it, i'm selling my W203 and buying a 335i. I was initially waiting for the w204.

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AMGC55 - 3/16/2007 2:02:41 PM

-4 Boost

335i is great

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gsh23 - 3/16/2007 2:42:17 PM

-2 Boost

the whole bmw "free maintenance" is misleading. oil changes are every 15,000 miles. since warranty is for 50,000 miles you get....3 free oil changes! wow, big f'n deal. any more and you have to pay out of pocket. considering that the actual cost of oil changes at most lexus dealerships is $50, saying you are saving money by buying bmw hence your reason for going with bmw is seriously flawed. filters, they cost anywhere from $10 to $30 and can be installed by yourself. same with windshield wipers. the only thing that would sound like a deal is free brake pads and rotors, but of course it depends on what bmw deems as normal use. if consumers were a bit more educated, these maintenance costs would be a total nonissue for normal wear and tear items. everything else for every make is covered under the normal warranty and most of them are the same between lexus, bmw, mb, etc.

oh and...so the c class can be slower, have sloppier handling, a bit more luxury, and same price if not more expensive as the 3 series and thats ok? what hypocrites, the A4, G35, and IS350 offer similar give and takes compared to the 3 and yet people hate on them. i would expect you bmw fans to piss all over the c class. come on, at least try not to be blinded by the 3 pointed star.

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JRobUSC - 3/17/2007 9:02:59 AM

+1 Boost

maintenance on the BMW is free for 4 yrs/50k miles, and for $985 you can get maintenance for 6 yrs/100k miles. I'd say $985 to get all my oil changes ($150), inspections ($400-600), brakes ($800), brake flushes, coolant flushes, headlight bulbs, wiper blades, etc paid for for 100k miles is a pretty good deal. Even the CLUTCH would be covered. And by the way, even though I like not having to take my BMWs in for service every 5000-7500 miles like other cars, the free service intervals aren't JUST every 15k miles -- the car needs maintenance once every calendar year AND when the countdown timer in the car reaches 1500 miles or less, and that timer will adjust its countdown based on how you drive. If you drive 10k miles a year and drive like a grandma you're coming in once the first year at 10k miles (annual service), twice the second year (once at the timer and again for the annual), once the third year (annual and inspection 1), and twice the fourth year (timer and annual). And all of those are free. If you needed brakes or a brake flush or coolant flush during that time? Free. Headlight out? Free. Wiper blades? Free.

I don't care how you try to spin it, you can't knock BMW for giving free maintenance. Mercedes used to, they dropped it, same with Audi and Volvo. Why? Because it's expensive for the manufacturer. Free maintenance is a value add for the consumer no matter how you look at it.

TheSailor - 3/17/2007 11:22:35 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

You are also forgetting the labor! Sure you might do the oil changes yourself and the filters and the wiper blades and all that, but that is the sort of thing I do on my 69' Camaro... Not on a brand new car! I would like to see some buisness guy in his all new 5-series or GS get greased up to change his own oil filter! So the "you can easily do that yourself" argument is BS! Nobody with a new car does that sort of thing! So why don't you try including the labor cost for all those small tasks you need done? Mechanics charge per begun hour...

Lexus - 3/16/2007 4:13:15 PM

-2 Boost

This not good for MB at all, the C-class only has 272 hp, 0-60 in 6.4. I belief the new Camry SE can do 0-60 in 6.4 or lower than the C-class.

Every cars in this segement has 300 hp or close to 300 hp. Than I guess it just between Lexus, BMW, Acura, Audi, and Infiniti.

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TheSailor - 3/16/2007 4:29:35 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Audi doesn't! They have the S4, but that is way more expensive and considerably more powerful as well... The C350 slots in perfectly between the 330i (the new one with the more powerful engine) and the A4 3.2FSI. And the rumored "C400" will probably have around 300 hp, maybe 320, maybe 330 but i won't have 400! They would need to sell it for to much money to differentiate it from the rest of the line up and would leave no room for the AMG! I'm pretty sure we'll see a C400 with 315-320 hp soon. That would perfect the lineup and leave perfect room for the AMG! Then we just need the A4 with the 3.6 engine out of the Passat R36 or with a 3.2FSI with a turbo and battle would be seriously fierce! I wouldn't take a bet on which would come out on top if that was to happen!

1995e34 - 3/16/2007 4:41:53 PM

+4 Boost

i will be quite suprised if benz doesn't offer an engine between the c350 and amg. trust me, it's in the works.

Threepoint1415926 - 3/16/2007 10:09:27 PM

-3 Boost

I agree. I would add that I would be surprised if they didnt put in an engine that just edged out the competition for acceleration times. That's sort of their MO.... IIRC, when the 350 engine came out, it was faster than all of its competition. Boy how things change fast in this industry.

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S4cabriofoxone - 3/16/2007 5:29:27 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

NO.

They're completely different, and except for sales, they're not trying to "de-throne" each other.

I prefer the BMW myself.

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trd1 - 3/16/2007 5:32:55 PM

-3 Boost

man this car is weak, slow, and has a ugly inerior, that sucks.

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Will_ - 3/16/2007 6:41:59 PM

-1 Boost

wow. I've never met someone pro-Honda and Nissan, yet anti-Toyota. Toyota haters are a special breed of humans, I must say. I thought all us Japanese fans were in this together? ;)

Oh well, nonetheless, Acura sucks.

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1995e34 - 3/16/2007 7:13:46 PM

+2 Boost

i like toyota. i'm just not convinced they offer anything that nissan and honda don't offer.

Will_ - 3/16/2007 7:27:28 PM

-1 Boost

Toyota and Honda have better reliability and resale value track records than Nissan, but otherwise, there really aren't too many more significant distinctions.
I'm a fan of all three, not just Toyota/Lexus, well, excluding Acura.

S4cabriofoxone - 3/18/2007 10:01:47 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I agree with both of you.

Specifically, though, I don't th