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Rebuilding a Brand: Audi's Tough Road in the US

Agent009 submitted on 11/02/2006 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 11:40 AM
from: www.businessweek.com

[121] user comments | category: Spy Shots

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Rebuilding a Brand: Audi's Tough Road in the US

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Homer008 - 11/2/2006 11:58:52 AM

+2 Boost

according to this year's Luxury Institute survey of high-wealth individuals, Audi ranked ninth in perceived prestige, below the three major German luxury automotive brands as well as lower-cost imports Lexus, Infiniti, Jaguar, Land Rover, and even Volvo.

Audi needs a shock therapy right now..Losing 2 Billion bucks in the current world's most important market: U.S. is nothing to laugh about.

Worst part of this is that..its a consistant pattern running for years not just a few months here and there.

VW can't save you either Audi, they are basically in the same shoes as yours.


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IamEvilHomer - 11/2/2006 12:11:52 PM

-4 Boost

^^^^what homer? Nothing you said was true in this last post

Homer008 - 11/2/2006 12:21:09 PM

+2 Boost

I hate to be on defensive end on this but here it is your proof, since you basically calling me a liar, homer.

Homer, go checkout Newsweek *last weeks edition.

rocker - 11/2/2006 1:09:23 PM

+3 Boost

But he actually said something intellectual and did no call anybody on these posters a bad name, well said, well spoken. And as an average American, things at and with Audi would have to change dramatically for me to purchae one. Again only 6000 Americans bought an Audi in October and I wonder how many of those were first time buyers(a very low percentage I would think)

davide - 11/3/2006 12:25:43 PM

+2 Boost

audi would be wise to take a hard look at their dealership network here. i like the brand (owner of an A6) but really am surprised at the dealerships - having owned porsche,mercedes,acuri - it's as if audi thinks the cars should sell themselves. i hope the new direction is high profile dealerships with great trained service techs. that is whats needed now.

quizz - 11/2/2006 12:11:53 PM

+3 Boost

Perception is Truth. Audi's recall fiasco in the 80's continue to cast a long shadow over them.

To an objective auto enthusiast, Audi's are fine. But most of Americans are ignorant media addicts who only know MB, BMW, Lexus and Rolexes. Audi needs to study what Lexus did in the 90's, and copy it.

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iown1 - 11/2/2006 12:43:14 PM

+4 Boost

This article is a part of Audi's rebuilding their image. Consider this if you will- The artcile basiclly states three things 1. In Germany Audi's are considered as good if not better than their competitors, 2. They missed the boat in the U.S. by focusing on the global market and 3. They are making up for it now by coming out with more models. All of these are pretty positive assertions.

Now Here's the kicker. Who do you think reads this mag, gear heads or suits? It's basicly an advertisement in the form of an article. Kind of like an infomercial.

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AmazingBimmer - 11/2/2006 12:50:26 PM

-4 Boost

perception is reality. audi is a poor brand.

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rocker - 11/2/2006 1:13:29 PM

-1 Boost

Poor image brand, I would say. Stop acting top tier, earn it with the US population first then act top tier. MB, BMW & Lexus earn it. Lexus has been around less than 20 years while Audi has been around forever and look at the difference in the 2 companies. IT's not just the American car companies that Toyota/Lexus passed in recent years, it is every car company in the world that is now looking at Toylex's taillights, as much as I hate it.

smshnick - 11/2/2006 1:41:08 PM

+2 Boost

your perception is your own reality.

IamEvilHomer - 11/2/2006 4:06:48 PM

0 Boost

beamer- another BMW guy that can't avoide the Audi post

Audi is doing fine
enjoy your 318

S4cabriofox - 11/2/2006 7:12:28 PM

+1 Boost

"perception is reality. audi is a poor brand."

It's people like you that make BMW seem even worse. Audi's worldwide reputation is that it's much cooler than the ubiquitous BMW and the staid Mercedes-Benz.

Agent63 - 11/2/2006 12:55:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

As good as Audi's build quality is, the prestigue is not as well known as Mercedes or BMW. That is a fact. However, the ones who do own an Audi can claim to their wealthy-counterparts that Audi is a premium luxury brand. Only then, will Audi build it's rep in the US. Another main key is marketing. Audi doesn't market themselves as Mercedes does. For example some dealerships in the US pay or give great deals to record labels, singers, rappers to take a picture/video with one of their top-notch models (SL, S-class, CLS). So in turn the public thinks, "oh since a celeb owns this car, it must be good.". BMW have yet to do it at a large scale like Mercedes has. Audi is no where close to that entertainment marketing. Once Audi has proven to the consumers that they are of high class, Audi will sky rocket in sales. Once the image has been created, it will never completely die off.

Sorry this early Thursday morning. I haven't had my cup of coffee so my bad if i didn't make any sense. =P

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Neverfollow - 11/2/2006 1:40:16 PM

-1 Boost

Whether you know this or not, Audi is doing exactly that. They have a fleet of cars dedicated to the use of Hollywood and New York "A" listers. The only agreement a celeb makes to drive one is to "drive and arrive" in it. You would be suprised at who is on that list!

Did anyone catch the A3 that appeared briefly on "Desperate Housewives" two weeks ago? It seemed almost in direct response to a blog I put on here a few months ago about how Maserati and Aston Martin have risen from the dead in recent years because of placement on shows like that. Thanks for listing guys!

Rupert - 11/2/2006 5:52:45 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

the england cricket team all drive vws.
many football clubs have audis given to them. but this is britain so its different.

AUDIMAN4 - 11/3/2006 12:34:18 AM

0 Boost

What really strikes me about all of this "image" talk is that people recognize Audi's emblem, and from what I've seen do regard them as highly as BMW or MB.

Every time I drive someone around in my car they tell me what a nice car it is and how I must be rich. And it's an A4.

I don't think this survey was an accurate representation of the US population at whole--afterall, it ranked Lexus more prestigious than BMW. I don't like BMW but that's ridiculous.

Maybe perceived image, but no way in quantitative things like technological development can Lexus trump any of the German three. Only in America.

GermanNut - 11/2/2006 1:19:16 PM

-1 Boost

Two cars: RS4 and R8.

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GermanNut - 11/2/2006 1:51:11 PM

-1 Boost

This is just the start of the beginning. Audi as unleashed a beautiful driver's car with the RS4. Even BMW M3 drivers and BMW owners praise the RS4 for its sheer speed and acceleration prowess as well as massively improved handling.

The Audi R8 has attracted attention in the form of praise from all types of auto-enthusiasts, BMW owners included.

You have people on this very site that post Audi designs are bland but they ALWAYS end up saying, "besides the R8."

With the incredible reviews of the Audi RS4, and the exotic looks of the R8 coupled with the same engine as in the acclaimed RS4, the R8 is sure to be a major hit as well.

BMW and Benz owners understand this is just the start of a major breakthrough for Audi from the viewpoint of their highly acclaimed RS division and Quattro GmBh tuner house.

The A8 has already gotten praise from BMW and Benz owners and the upcoming A8 is looking to go all-out in terms of technology, acceleration, handling, luxury, room ,comfort and ride quality.

Prices as we know are already going to be identical to BMW's in the next 5 years thanks to Johann de Nyschen's comments regarding Audi pricing in coming years.

We all understand that Audi has a large hill to climb but with the RS4, R8 and upcoming A8 they will be moving rapidly in the upwards directions.



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snatch - 11/2/2006 2:07:00 PM

0 Boost

Personally, I hope Audi does well over here in the US & Canada... more competition among the luxury brands just leads to better overall products from everybody.

But I think that additional sales and respect among affluent customers just takes time. IMHO, up until recently, Audi hasn't really built great products. Yes, they had Quattro but even in the mid-90's, their products were boring and unreliable. Yes, they have put out a few really good products RECENTLY - R8 & RS4... but it takes time for consumers to change their perception of the brand. You can't be "average" for the last 20 years, step it up for 3-4 years and expect consumers to completely forget history... to get consumer confidence, you need time, a lot of time and hopefully the reliability holds up...

The next 5 - 10 years will be interesting to see if the turnaround works...

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GermanNut - 11/2/2006 2:44:22 PM

+1 Boost

it will take another 10 years for Audi's image to be equal. Realize that the RS4 and R8 have come out just two years apart and both are incredibly capable.

If Audi stays at this pace and unleashes cars that are just as capable as the RS4 and R8 and sticks to the same time frame of unleashing each one of these cars (upcoming A8, RS6, RS5) just two years apart, it will equal a total of 10 hugely impressive vehicles from the brand in 10 years.

That is a lot of incredibly impressive cars.

It takes time, but Audi's image will eventually get there.

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S4cabriofox - 11/2/2006 7:14:10 PM

+2 Boost

I wouldn't argue with its sedan lineup. A4, A6 and A8 are all above average in their respective segments. A8 is a top player, A6 is a design leader, and A4 is still a potential 3 Series-beater.

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audiot - 11/2/2006 3:23:17 PM

+4 Boost

Audi is this site's whipping boy, isn't it?

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GermanNut - 11/2/2006 4:52:11 PM

+1 Boost

I agree will that a high-performance division such as RS courtesy of an in-house tuner such as Quattro GmBH will get the brand respect from performance enthusiast. Unfortunately, it will gain little respect from regular everyday customers looking for your normal premium-luxury sedan.

That issue will be addressed courtesy of the upcoming A8, new A4 and A5/A6 models.

Audi's image in Europe is already consistent and on par with BMW's and MB's.

The U.S. is the only market where it is really trailing.

Again, it will take time but the RS4 and R8 show that Audi is capable when it is asked to produce high-performance cars, the upcoming A8 will show that Audi is capable when it comes to producing high-end ultra luxury sedans, the re-designed A4 will address the same task for the entry premium-luxury sedan and the only thing left is SUVs

The Q5 will be debuting soon and the Q7 is already out.

Give it 10 years here in the United States and Audi's image will be on par with BMW's and MB's due to Audi's incredibley capable high-performance variants such as the RS4, R8, upcoming RS6 and RS5 along with excellent premium-luxury sedans such as the A8 and A4 along with mid-size A6.

It is impossbile for a brand's image to stay stagnant when it produces such cars as the RS4 and R8. That is why if Audi continue to produce such vehicles, it's image with continue to rise. That is exactly what will happen.

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S4cabriofox - 11/2/2006 7:15:33 PM

0 Boost

"The trick is that by advertising the high end performance cars, you give the brand an overall image of sporty performance even though the lower end models might not have anything to do with these sports cars..."

Exactly! This is one of the reasons why BMW is so successful- only market the best cars when you can.

audiot - 11/3/2006 12:42:28 AM

+3 Boost

BMW can advertise the 3-series all day because it is a sporty car. You do need to have a car people want to buy.

CarNut - 11/2/2006 4:58:17 PM

0 Boost

MAny of my collegues see america only as a market. I was very happy at the news of the Q7 being more popular in europe than in US. "If they would have made it a 6meter long 2 blocks with 33" chrome spinners and 8 exausts and cut money on quality they would have been an overnight success in the states"... co-worker's statement, i thought it was pretty funny, but seeing many of u guys here i think ur different.... not sure if i can say that for people that dont like cars as much as we do :D

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Rupert - 11/2/2006 5:56:13 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

the RX looks good, thats why. i have to say it is a very stylish SUV, and was years ahead of the ml. smaller american SUVs don't seem to have the sports emphasis like they do in europe, which is why the RX was almost unique at its release, only the X5 being the other driving orientated SUV.
i think what carnut says is true.

S4cabriofox - 11/2/2006 7:19:09 PM

+1 Boost

The RX is stylish, yes. My wife says it's quite sleek for an SUV- in spite of the sedans, it's one of Lexus's better-looking cars.

When it came out, it was very distinctive and you knew it was a Lexus. But now, there are so many followers, and most people wouldn't be able to tell an ML from an RX.

The Range Rover is the epitome of fabulous SUV design- but that comes at the steep price of horrible reliability. One of the other reasons the RX has been so popular is that it has Camry DNA. It has the Camry's smooth ride, the Camry's user-friendliness, and the Camry's refinement. Almost anything that's based off of the Camry is destined to do well. Case in point: Highlander, RX, Camry itself, ES

chewy - 11/2/2006 8:07:33 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Audi better doubly or triple its current advertising budget. Audi has to at least match the amount of money spent by its competition. The cars already speak for themselves.

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Larry - 11/2/2006 11:36:01 PM

-2 Boost

yes, that is what Audi is ninth in prestige, maybe these dorks that play dungeons and dragons , drive and post blogs about audi on autospies think audi is cool but very few people think audi is cool in the USA, it is just a reworked VW.

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S4cabriofox - 11/5/2006 1:54:34 AM

+1 Boost

Umm, no, actually, most people think Audi makes pretty cool cars here. They have a low-key image for sure, but teens out there (my son and his friend, for example) think they're awesome.

GermanNut - 11/2/2006 11:41:07 PM

+2 Boost

Thank you for stating the correct facts Larry, again that is ONLY in the USA. In the rest of the world Audi is on par with BMW and MB.

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AUDIMAN4 - 11/3/2006 12:28:54 AM

0 Boost

Exactly. And personally, I wonder if Audi will ever get through to American people. They by large tend to be ignorant and hold onto unfactual information--like people still talking about unintended acceleration.

Anyone who would rate Infiniti, Volvo, as Lexus as more "prestigious" than Audi needs to have their head checked (there's no way you'd get results like this internationally). Americans know very little about the cars they buy, they know more about the badge.

CarNut - 11/5/2006 4:56:14 PM

+2 Boost

Haha so true

rocker - 11/3/2006 12:19:32 AM

+1 Boost

Stop being a dick and calling Americans stupid, dickbag

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rocker - 11/3/2006 12:20:50 AM

+1 Boost

Caltrans, Relax and go check out the chicks at the SEMA show on this website.

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AUDIMAN4 - 11/3/2006 12:25:57 AM

0 Boost

I started a thread about this very survey (which proves affluence does certainly not equal intelligence, especially in the US). What were the criteria brands were based on prestige? It certainly had nothing to do with technology, engines, performance brands/tuners, or average transaction prices--factors which truly warrant prestige.

This survey wasn't a prestige survey--it was a familiarity survey--which brands were these people most familiar with. Hence Lexus, Infiniti, Volvo, and Jaguar being rated more "prestigious". What a joke.

Either way it's not even scientific because they only sampled 500 people, and didn't account for bias/the cars these people actually own. Irrelevant results as far as I'm concerned.

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AUDIMAN4 - 11/3/2006 1:04:09 AM

+1 Boost

Oh and rocker, he only speaks the truth.

Anyone that would rate Volvo, Jaguar, Lexus, or Infiniti as more prestigious than Audi is just that--stupid. You call it bias, I call it fact.

All of these brands come up short and lack many of the things that make a company Tier I--V10/V12 engines, performance tuners, association with higher end brands (Lamborghini, Bentley).

I don't think most Americans even know of the association Audi has with Porsche and Lamborghini.

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S4cabriofox - 11/5/2006 1:56:22 AM

+2 Boost

"...and certainly not just because they ride the coattails of more exclusive brands which they bought."

Pretty ignorant comment there. Audi BOUGHT Lamborghini- if they were to ride on its coattails, Lamborghini would have to buy AUDI. If Audi hadn't saved them, Lamborghini would still be in bankruptcy, or maybe even out of business.

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audiot - 11/3/2006 12:40:48 AM

+3 Boost

This topic doesn't get any different no matter how many times as it's posted. Audi is the dog you kick because they don't understand marketing, their lower end cars drive uninspired, and they aren't BMW.

That's basically it. You can keep posting this same article, but the facts aren't changing anytime soon.

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matt635 - 11/3/2006 7:38:16 AM

+1 Boost

It's all well and good banging on about the R8 and how good the RS models are, but these are not high volume vehicles!

Selling the A4, the A6 and the TT should be Audi's objectives in the US. Cars that will sell high volumes.

((I am assuming that as so many US audi fans think the 1-series harms BMW's image and is too small and weak - that the same is true of the A3))

The R8 is good for brand image, but the fact is that it's only a tiny drop in the ocean when it comes to the number of cars rolling off the forecourts.


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audiot - 11/3/2006 11:51:53 AM

+1 Boost

IMO, the A3 hurts Audi less than the 1-series hurts BMW ...

-the name 1-series is derogatory/smallest number... IMO, the A3 hurts Audi less than the 1-series hurts BMW ...

-the name 1-series is derogatory/smallest number... not good.
-Haven't driven the 1-series, but reports say it's not a great car.
-the A3 is close to the A4 in quality
-Audi has a less premium image in USA so can get away with it. BMW is held to a higher standard by many.
-the A3 is close to the A4 in quality
-Audi has a less premium image in USA so can get away with it. BMW is held to a higher standard by many.

audiot - 11/3/2006 1:34:16 PM

+1 Boost

My post really got garbled up there... I can't cut and paste worth a damn.

Wouldn't BWM be better off promoting its certified used plan before creating an undesirable sub-compact in the US? I'd like to get a BMW someday, but not a 1-Series. I'd go used first.

Rupert - 11/3/2006 6:00:34 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

why would anyone buy a new 1 series if they could just buy a used 3/5/7?
my 99 740 cost about half a 1 series!

DarkOneForce - 11/4/2006 4:37:04 AM

-1 Boost

MDalle what are you talking about.
1 series crap ?!

People that drove it said it remided them of the 2002 and/or E30 3er.

It's sportier, more agile than the now really big 3er.

DarkOneForce - 11/4/2006 4:37:11 AM

-1 Boost

MDalle what are you talking about.
1 series crap ?!

People that drove it said it remided them of the 2002 and/or E30 3er.

It's sportier, more agile than the now really big 3er.

macbjg1 - 11/3/2006 9:26:37 AM

-2 Boost

My question to all of you is simply: have you ever owned an Audi? For that matter, have you ever owned a car? You sound like a bunch of 16 year old boys fighting over who is cooler. I have owned three Audis and am buying another one this week. Why? Not because of what other idiots think of me but because I have never enjoyed another vehicle as much. That includes 4 Mercedes that I have owned over the years. End of story.

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dweezil - 11/3/2006 11:19:34 AM

-2 Boost

why audi has such a hard time in the us market" because its a poor man's MB, BMW, Lexus, doesnt hold the same cachet they do. It should stop trying to play with the big boys, and settle for competing against contenders like acura, or infiniti

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macbjg1 - 11/6/2006 3:22:00 PM

+2 Boost

Lexus is this generation's Cadillac. A perfectly lush and well appointed car. But, much as the Caddy was a rich man's Chevy in the mid 20th century, make no mistake about it, the Lexus is a wealthy person's Toyota. It is, in no uncertain terms, a sensible car with cachet.

dlin - 11/3/2006 12:48:09 PM

+3 Boost

like who cares

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AmazingBimmer - 11/3/2006 1:59:00 PM

0 Boost

dweezil. the r8 is decent. thes rest of their line up is pure shit, that includes the poorly enginnered, overwrought, nose heavy, fwd inspired rs4 and soon to be rs6. they dont et sublime performance and handling with prestige like M or amg does.

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GermanNut - 11/3/2006 2:43:54 PM

+3 Boost

Of Course AmzingBimmer, poorly engineered, overwrought, nose heavy, fwd inspired and lack of sublime performance or handling along with prestige surely are not characterstics of the R8.



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score - 11/3/2006 5:59:36 PM

+1 Boost

Audi who? Nothing about this brand strikes me in a good way or most americans for that matter.The brand hardly has a cachet.When asked most people have no clue what it is, they think it's tv,microwave or a stove.With a huge grille that looks out of place on all it's cars no wonder no one wants one.

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S4cabriofox - 11/5/2006 2:04:36 AM

+1 Boost

"When asked most people have no clue what it is..."

Wow, this is really overdone on this website. PEOPLE KNOW WHAT AN AUDI IS, for God's sake!!! It's not some unknown brand- people know what an Audi is as much as they know what a Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, BMW, Volvo or Mercedes is!

audiot - 11/3/2006 6:22:25 PM

0 Boost

Audi who indeed.

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anS4inOC - 11/3/2006 9:19:01 PM

-1 Boost

Based on the comments by all of the "automotive experts" on this board, it sounds like Audi sells about 20 cars per year.

Your comments are completely worthless. Go take a drive in your modified Civic with the pumpkin-launcher tailpipe.

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audiot - 11/3/2006 10:56:12 PM

-1 Boost

Wow. OK.

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NYC45 - 11/4/2006 1:35:50 AM

+2 Boost

For me, Audi is in the same level as MB and BMW.

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audiot - 11/4/2006 2:49:03 AM

+1 Boost

When a luxury brand...

-needs an grassroots fanbase to tell non-users off
-needs to keep reminding everyone they're on the same level with other luxury brands
-prices itself at the same level as luxury brands people have actually heard of
-refuses to spend to promote its luxury image

...it's usually not a luxury brand at all.

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TheGenius - 11/4/2006 8:16:10 AM

-3 Boost

Its very clear that some people posting on this site have not yet left the little town they grew up in so here are some basic facts for the ignorant:

1) In Germany home of BMW, MBenz and Audi, Audi is no. 1, BMW no. 2 and Benz no. 3
2) In Europe, the top 3 Luxury brands are Audi, BMW and Benz (order varies by country, but Benz is generally no.1 in most of the countries). Similar in most parts of the world but varies quite a bit by country.
3) US consumers are much less informed about cars than people in most parts of the world. For example, the typical Lexus owner has no clue that they are Toyota clones..
4) A puported Luxury survey in any country in the world that doesn't rank Audi as one of the top 3 Luxury brands is clearly not a Luxury survey! Its either a "popularity" ranking, statistically inaccurate (very poor sample) or the audience was a bunch of morons..and there are many out there!
5) Every car Audi makes blows away the competition in its class or at the least matches it. Audi has "no" car that underperforms. None!, and no other manufacturer can claim that. Many are class benchmarks: RS4, A8, A3, Q7, and for the ignorant benchmark is not sales volume, but the whole package!!
6) Audi was dumb to have ignored the US market for so long (bogus 60 minutes bs regardless) so now they are paying the price and will have to work harder in the US to educate the ignorant.
7) Audis historically have not been properly marketed. Think, how many times you've seen ads for the a3, a4, a6 or a8, and compare to 3 series, 5 series, Lexus (pretty much any model). Compare that now to the Q7 and RS4, R8/R10 at Le mans, and you'll see how they're beginning to improve. How many Audi dealers have you seen, and how many are Audi only? The forum in NYC, Q7/RS4 marketing, r8 debut, placement in movies (I-robot, Transporter 2) show that they are now taking the US market seriously and are on the right track.

Prediction:
It will take some time to educate consumers in the US about the brand, but they are building momentum, and current evidence clearly shows that Audi has woken up. I believe that in the next 5 years, Audi will score well even in popularity surveys cloaked as Luxury surveys

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CarNut - 11/5/2006 5:00:24 PM

+2 Boost

Ur right

audiot - 11/4/2006 12:03:11 PM

-2 Boost

Audi is a fine car, but a weak brand in the US. The more you lecture me about Audi, the weaker Audi looks.

I like Audi, but less and less when I have to scroll through lectures from professors of Audiology.

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huu76 - 11/4/2006 12:46:59 PM

+2 Boost

Boo-hoo-hoo. Audi can't win so it must be because Americans are idiots.

Did you ever think that N.America sees VW as overpriced, and Audi as overpriced VW?

We buy the best, not what's the most "German".

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audiot - 11/4/2006 2:05:12 PM

0 Boost

You're overstating things a bit... We're talking hundreds of thousands of people who make Lexus a nameplate in the US. Not hundreds of millions. The Buick and Oldsmobile set from the 50's and 60's buys cars today as well, and they buy Lexus. It's just the way it is. Not worth pigeonholeing the entire country.

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huu76 - 11/4/2006 8:20:03 PM

-1 Boost

The difference is that we know Lexus are worth the extra that you pay, hence the crazy sales. If I were you, I'd doublecheck the IS, GS and LS before saying they're just Toyotas, although there's nothing wrong with it being a Toyota (9 million and counting).

Did you think of this one? Americans can see through the VW/Audi facade, apparently there are atleast a million Europeans who don't.

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audiot - 11/5/2006 1:08:03 AM

+3 Boost

Don't get sucked into the Lexus myth. They're "#1 in luxury sales" so-called because of the RX basically. They are worth the extra that you pay only if you want a Buick/Oldsmobile vibe with Toyota reliability. Yeah, GS and IS too. It's all millennium Buick, basically. Not enthusiast material by any stretch, unless you trot out the stats that some losers on this site can't help but do ... best in this, #1 in that ... to convince themselves they are getting a special car and not an appliance.

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S4cabriofox - 11/5/2006 1:59:45 AM

+3 Boost

"Not enthusiast material by any stretch, unless you trot out the stats that some losers on this site can't help but do ... best in this, #1 in that ... to convince themselves they are getting a special car and not an appliance."

Wow. Surprising. You hate Audi fans AND Lexus fans? I thought Will would've made you pick sides by now!

But I agree 100%. A Lexus fan is not an "enthusiast"- an enthusiast, by definition, enjoys driving, not being driven. Lexus cars are appliances.

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huu76 - 11/5/2006 11:33:48 AM

0 Boost

Do some research. RX only counts for about a 3rd of their sales, the ES and IS make up another third, and everything else makes the smaller 3rd. Unlike the Germans, Toyota has managed to avoid being too dependent on cheap-ass entry "poser" cars.

I'm sure the 70+% of BMW drivers who buy automatics are all enthusiasts right?

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audiot - 11/5/2006 11:46:15 AM

+3 Boost

People on this site who love Lexus are like those guys who buy inanimate dolls as their "wives" -- but at least those guys know they're buying an imitation. Lexus drivers apparently don't.

Enthusiasts hate Lexus because it's an imitation of a real experience. They don't fear Lexus. That is a symptom of the Lexus disorder... to think that loathing is a sign of envy.

Lexus' excuse for being in any import conversation--#1 at anything--is because soccer-moms like the RX. As measured by sedans only, Lexus is not #1 luxury import.

Enthusiasts don't want a safe house on wheels. They don't want to be hermetically sealed off with "the world's best stereo" or "the world's quietest ride" and then pat themselves on the back for buying "the world's most reliable line" and the "#1 luxury import." They don't want VDIM "helping" them drive their $50k sports car.

But you Lexus clones constantly insinuate these features into a conversation that is never about those things. It's about soul, character, design, speed, thrills and everything irrational about life--everything Lexus is not. If someone complains about reliability of a BMW, that doesn't mean they want to hear about Lexus being #1 in reliability. Lexus is not a solution to enthusiast problems, anymore than jumping off a bridge is a solution to a toothache.

You Lexus worshippers are sad, because you're in love with this idea of "safe danger." "I can have the excitement of a BMW and the reliability of a Toyota!" It's delusional. It's just a sad way to live. When you become a man, maybe you'll step out and enjoy life from outside your bubble. Every post you Lexus owners put up is just a sad plea to be taken seriously by men who embrace performance. You seem to want their validation, which no one is apparently in a hurry to give you. You'll no doubt keep trying and keep hearing the same criticisms of your weak character.


reply to this comment

bmtrblu - 11/4/2006 3:22:59 PM

0 Boost

Boy, that's a laffer coming from you "Will". You suck any positive vibes out of Lexxxxus with your stupid comments. You are nothing but a stat whore. You don't belong on an enthusiast site, except to constantly embarrass yourself.

reply to this comment

2JZSoarer - 11/5/2006 2:03:50 AM

-1 Boost

Audi can try to catch up,but like the other luxury brands it will not come close to the success of Lexus in the U.S!!!America just likes the L-Finess style of Lexus over the cheap Volkswagon style of Audi!!

reply to this comment

S4cabriofox - 11/5/2006 2:05:43 AM

+3 Boost

Hmm... you consistently have some of the stupidest comments on this site. We get it- you're a Lexus freak. We already have a Lexus freak that we listen to- Will. Get lost.w

TheGenius - 11/5/2006 10:06:53 AM

+4 Boost

If Lexus is so great, why is Lexus severely underperforming in Europe and at home in Japan? If you can answer that question truthfully, no further discussion is needed!! But I'll help out..because denial can be a chronic condition. The Japanese know what Lexus really is: an overpriced Toyota!! Last year sales were 50% below target 10,000 sold.. vs. a lowballed 20,000 projected from late last summer when dealers slapped on Lexus badges on the so-called "Luxury Toyotas" kind of like "Smart moron", but I'll leave that for another day!. This year projections have been revised downwards twice from a low 50K: a sure way to meet your sales target!! Wake up guys..if Lexus can't sell in Japan their home country, its because the Japanese are very informed about