Report says U.S. diesel sales are on the rise, would you buy one?

— Invisible:

| I would buy a diesel before I would buy a hybrid.

Why should anyone buy slower, less efficient, less reliable, less fun to drive and more expensive to run inferior imported technology when you can have a superior domestic product?

Ford Fusion Hybrid is:
- faster than the Volkswagen Jetta TDI thanks to electric torque boost
- bigger than the Volkswagen Jetta TDI
- more fuel efficient than the Volkswagen Jetta TDI
- more fun to drive
and then, at the end of the day, it costs less to own, wiping the price disadvantage.

I don't have cost data for the Fusion Hybrid itself since it's a brand new car but Ford Escape full hybrid has been built in exactly the same way as the Fusion. Results?

5-year TOTAL costs of ownership:
2006 Ford Escape hybrid (crossover SUV): $36,250 [1]
2006 VW Jetta TDI (compact sedan) automatic: $37,873 [2]

Part of the reason is that Volkswagen has the worst reliability record in the entire automotive industry, with only Suzuki (a marginal maker) being below VW.

Problems reported per 100 cars: [3]
Ford: 159
Volkswagen 260

Add an overly complex diesel to it and you will likely get to know your dealer well.

What can die in a diesel?
- a turbocharger (bearings, oil leaks and oil ingestion resulting in engine runaway)
- super-high pressure fuel pump (1600+ bars), very pricey to swap
- fragile injectors (direct injection) due to fuel quality
- a double mass flywheel
- an automated mechanical/hydraulic clutch
- an automated mechanical/hydraulic gearbox
- particulate filter and NOx reductor sensors

None of these things can go wrong in a hybrid because they are simply not there. Hybrid cars don't need such unnecessary complexity to outperform diesels. Batteries and inverters have no moving parts and electric traction motors are one of the most durable components possible (locomotives powered by electric traction motors often have 1,000,000+ miles overhaul intervals [4]). The gearbox is replaced by a single set of immovable gears. There is no clutch and no clutch plates to wear. The engine requires no complexity nonsense to run efficiently.


[1] http://www.edmunds.com/used/2006/ford/escapehybrid/100531498/cto.html?setzip=10009&vdp=off
[2] http://www.edmunds.com/used/2006/volkswagen/jetta/100544987/cto.html?setzip=10009&vdp=off
[3] http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2009043
[4] http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/eng/catalog/pages/361.html

— MrBratwurst (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 12:06:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

I too, would purchase a diesel before a hybrid. I've had my eye on the VW Touareg V10 TDI for some time. I guess I would have to buy it used, but that's OK. If I'm getting a diesel, I'm getting a V8 or V10 SUV or large car version with some real stump-pulling torque.

I'd take a diesel GL.

BMW's 335d has been an interesting option too if I were to get a smaller vehicle.

— dumpsty (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 3:18:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8   

TurboSpyder prefers opinions(if they're similar to his) instead of facts as usual.

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 5:20:43 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

After spending 800 miles in a 335d, you bet!

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 5:13:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9   

If we could get some of the diesels they are selling in Europe, I sure would. Just spent some time driving a Renault Clio diesel and I was very impressed with this engine. Maybe a GOLF Diesel this fall - no manual transmission cars to test drive at the dealer.

— abqhudson (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 5:41:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

Been there done that. Now that they are getting hard to deal on, I have already had mine for some time.

— SteedPub (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 5:48:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Yep, looking at one now. But I'll wait for the Golf.

— bintintin (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 5:48:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

If it had the same Balls as my Subaru WRX...you god damned right!

— pennfootball (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 7:16:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -8   

If I had to get either a diesel or a hybrid I'd get the diesel

— ChevyFan100 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 7:38:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

I have a 2008 MB GL320 CDI. Just drove from Ohio to North Carolina. Got 26 mpg and used only 3/4 tank of diesel - and that was doing about 70 mph most of the way. So yeah, I'd buy (another) one!

— westy1974 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 7:38:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

I think diesel best fits my driving style: leadfoot. I can put the pedal down and still get decent mileage. If you are a granny featherfoot driver, get the hybrid. In addition, the upcoming direct injection gasoline engines will give diesels a little competition.

— commander104 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 7:55:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I would definately buy a diesel as long as its got cahonies

— bfghemicuda (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 8:45:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

I would buy... a 6.6L turbo diesel duramax sports car. With 660 lb·ft of torque at 1600rpm, the joy would be endless. Hell, throw on heavy steel tuck sized independent suspension and a heavy steel frame. For bullet proof reliability and to help offset the costs of making the engine. The engines are easy to tune and get big power gains out of cheap chipping/exhaust/intake upgrades (especially if you don't have to worry about emissions tests) That is my dream :) And hopefully it could get 15mpg! :P

— Joe_Limon (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 9:31:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7   

I'll buy diesel the day I do a double take on a passing by tractor :)

— sector (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 10:51:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

you certainly could after saving a few drums of oil because of the TDI fuel efficiency, but wouldn't that be such a waste of natural resources?

— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 12:07:14 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Yep. Bought a VW TDI wagon in Feb 09 after getting rid of my E55 AMG wagon. Don't miss the E55 (well maybe 95% of the time), and love the TDI. Way more fun to drive than a Prius, and with diesel prices below regular, the variable cost is approaching parity. Sure, I miss blindingly fast freeway merges, but the TDI has more than enough torque to get the job done.

— atomic (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2009 11:33:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

My only problem with the present set of diesels on sale in the US is that they are from VW, Mercedes, Audi, and BMW. Vehicles that I feel are either overpriced and/or poorly built. I would love to see a Chevrolet Malibu TDI or a Chevrolet Cruze TDI. Or perhaps even a Nissan Altima TDI. The first vehicle I ever drove, ironically, was a 1982 Volkswagen Transporter D. THAT was unbreakable. But VW lost it somewhere in the mid 80s. I'm not willing to risk a single penny on that pyramid scheme.

— tango (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 9:11:00 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

The only diesel I would drive would be one that came in a nice pickup. Then I would put big smokey side pipes so when I pulled up next to a Prius I could fumigate their battery putt putt with a smelly smokey concoction.

— Whelan (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 10:07:58 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Bring the boxer diesel from Subaru and put a diesel in the passat!

— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 10:21:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

I'd absolutely get a diesel. The diesel X5 is awesome, and I'd roll in just about anything BMW puts the new 306hp/442lb-ft version of that engine in.

— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 12:09:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

There's still not enough diesel gas stations. Plus, gasoline engines sound better. So, no I wouldn't unless they fix those 2 things.

— kdawg (View Profile)

Posted on 6/23/2009 4:03:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

If you want to know, there's a difference between initial quality study and dependability study, in dependability study VW has 260 problems.

And VWs are unreliable, it can't be just coincidence that VWs are also on low positions in AutoBild dauertests, they're testing cars reliability on 100000km (62000miles) distance, they're reporting all defects during test and after every test they are disassembling tested car to search defects. Recently they tested VW Fox and it also got low ratings for reliability(summary table of previous tests is at the bottom of the page):
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/dauertest-vw-fox-1.2_889510.html

Though Autobild is promoting VWs and other German brands, even they have to admit that VWs are unreliable, and it is now, when other automakers generally greatly improved in reliability.

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 5:52:54 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

What bothers me the most about diesels isn't the technology but the premium price we're getting charged for diesel fuel.

— Eyecarehawaii (View Profile)

Posted on 6/24/2009 5:26:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Toyota already makes several diesel motors for the Yaris. Trouble is that they are not sold in the US. The 1.0 liter gas and 1.0 liter Yaris both set UK fuel economy records. The diesel Yaris has better fuel economy than the gasoline powered Yaris. So I would consider a 1.0 liter diesel Yaris if it is ever sold in the US.

— ellenbetty (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 1:34:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Sold my wife's A6 Quattro Avant Wagon.
Have ridden in Prius Taxis in NY & Vancouver ... other than rear leg-room that car has nothing going for it!
She now drives a 2009 Jetta TDI Wagon with DSG & Leather and loves it.
Upgraded to performance rubber on 17" RS6 alloys, but still need traction control on to keep from smoking off the tires. (traction control light flashes in 1st & 2nd in the wet, and this is an automatic).
The car is quick, handling is great, space (up front) is adequate (I'm 6'5"), rear legroom sucks, seats are good (not quite Audi A6 level, but way beyond Japanese-quality ... good for long trips).
We are driving Vancouver to Ontario and back in August (over 3000 miles), then going VANCOUVER to BOSTON to DC to PORTLAND in Sept.
Its perfect for this kind of stuff.
Not broken in yet, but over 50 MPG imperial average, mostly in town. 55 MPG HWY.
But the best thing is that the resale is so much higher on a diesel (due to higher reliability, longer life, lower maintenance costs) that even if it didn't save $$$ driving it, it would pay you back when you sell it.

— DieselRules (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 1:34:43 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

For a full size truck I would probably go for gas because gas vehicles are lighter and cheaper to maintain, they consume the same amount of gas and the diesel is lots more to buy. I would buy a truck with a smaller diesel in a full size.

— truckman (View Profile)

Posted on 6/25/2009 5:22:35 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

For those interested in vehicles with "small displacement" (under 2.4 liters) turbo diesels here are a few good sources to consider:

http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search

http://www.autocar.co.uk/SpecsPrices/SpecsAndPrices.aspx

For the pickup/van/4X4/commercial folks, try this

http://www.vca.gov.uk/vandata/Default.aspx

My personal favorite is the Mondeo with the 1.8 liter diesel [about 45 mpg(US) combined cycle] but here is what Ford has done with it recently

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/ford-mondeo-s-max-and-galaxy-get-new-diesel-engines-ar52499.html

Please let me know what you think ...

— 44mpgBY2010 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/27/2009 10:14:38 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1