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Rumor: Mazda RX-9 could be hydrogen-powered

tryme submitted on 1/3/2009 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 7:20:06 AM

22 user comments | Category: New Cars | Source: | SOURCE: www.4wheelsnews.com

The rotary engine of Mazda has placed it in a quite unique position in the automobile world.

The Wankel powerplant incidentally runs quite well on hydrogen and is not as vulnerable to many of hydrogen’s failings as in other internal combustion units.

The Japanese car maker has had hydrogen-fueled rotary-propelled vehicles on the streets for the last few years and the car maker has earlier suggested that it hopes to have a hydrogen-fueled car in the assembly lines within the next five years.

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Rumor: Mazda RX-9 could be hydrogen-powered

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tryme

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User Comments

veyron1001

I am glad Mazda is still working on the rotary.

— veyron1001 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/3/2009 1:17:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

LexSucks

Why?

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 1/4/2009 4:42:31 PM | | Votes: 0   

adamsaf723

That is a smart idea. The one big downside about rotaries is that is an oil whore.

— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/3/2009 1:21:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

TehShibbs

Because its basically a 2-stroke.

— TehShibbs (View Profile)

Posted on 1/3/2009 2:47:42 PM | | Votes: -1   

LexSucks

Oil Whore, Gas whore, No-torque whore. I'm still trying to figure out what advantages Rotary engines have over Piston engines?

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 1/4/2009 4:44:01 PM | | Votes: 0   

dumpsty

It would be nice to see a gas or diesel RX-9 on the roads before a hydrogen version (or concept) makes its rounds.

— dumpsty (View Profile)

Posted on 1/3/2009 1:37:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

jeffy210

Someone please school me on engines. Would a diesel rotary even be possible? I know you need massive compression for a diesel to work, can you get that on a rotary engine?

— jeffy210 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/3/2009 2:04:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

veyron1001

Yes its possible. 3 moving parts and the rotary can handle high compression. I am not sure about the seals though. Surprised it hasnt been tried yet.

— veyron1001 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/3/2009 2:13:29 PM | | Votes: 1   

Threepoint1415926

It has been. Rolls Royce made a diesel Wankel.

— Threepoint1415926 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/3/2009 7:00:50 PM | | Votes: 1   

GreenPlease

In theory, possible. In practice, impossible: the seals are the limitation. The principal limitation of the rotary design is the lateral sealing.

BTW the wankel design is a true four-stroke design: intake, compression, expansion, and exhaust all handled seperately. The reason that rotary engines are oil whores is due to the sealing issue.

Hydrogen leads to better thermal efficiency in both pison and rotary designs due to the higher flame front speed. It is more pronounced in rotarty engines due to the inherent elongated combustion chamber design.

Roarty engines, IMO, are best suited for use in series hybrid vehicles (AKA plug-in hybrid or extended range electric vehicle) where the engine simply serves as a backup range extender once the all electric range is violated.

— GreenPlease (View Profile)

Posted on 1/4/2009 2:50:37 PM | | Votes: 1   

chewy

well it doesn't work to well on gas (poor performance and extremely high fuel consumption for its output)

— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 1/3/2009 2:56:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

theoptimisticpessimist

I admire Mazda for sticking with it. I'm sure Audi does also, they own the patent on the wankel engine.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 1/3/2009 4:27:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

veyron1001

If you haven't read recently. BMW has a 7 series that runs on hydrogen and gasoline. Hybrid is the current cheapest band aid until another fuel that can be made independent from foreign oil and govt control.

— veyron1001 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/4/2009 1:01:00 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Kthorn

Producing a hydrogen-powered vehicle presents many challenges. From safely storing enough of the propellant to give you a drivable range, (say 350 to 450 miles) to the infrastructure required to make the venture feasible. It's unlikely any one manufacturer would launch a hydrogen car unless as a collective group, they all agreed to launch one on or about the same time.

— Kthorn (View Profile)

Posted on 1/4/2009 1:56:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

LexSucks

Rotary Engines are flawed. There's a reason why everyone else except mazda has abandoned them. Look at the RX8. The RX8 doesn't have any performance but consumes more fuel than a Z06 vette.

— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 1/4/2009 4:46:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Lexus1555

Can someone please explain the benefit of a hydrogen car versus a pure electric car. For many companies, the hydrogen powers a fuel cell, which in turn creates electricity that powers the electric motors. Why waste energy turning something into hydrogen, which in turn wastes more energy being converted into electricity. Why not take out the middle man and just have electricity?

Although, maybe companies like Mazda and BMW, which use hydrogen to power an IC engine, are onto something?

— Lexus1555 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/4/2009 11:34:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Lexus1555

Can someone please explain the benefit of a hydrogen car versus a pure electric car. For many companies, the hydrogen powers a fuel cell, which in turn creates electricity that powers the electric motors. Why waste energy turning something into hydrogen, which in turn wastes more energy being converted into electricity.? Why not take out the middle man and just have electricity in battery, which then powers the electric motors?

Although, maybe companies like Mazda and BMW, which use hydrogen to power an IC engine, are onto something?

— Lexus1555 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/4/2009 11:35:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Lexus1555

Can someone please explain the benefit of a hydrogen car versus a pure electric car? For many car companies, they have the hydrogen powering a fuel cell, which in turn creates electricity that powers the electric motors. Why waste energy turning something into hydrogen (e.g. coal), which in turn is wasted more being converted into electricity in the fuel cell? Why not take out the middle man and just have electricity in battery, which then powers the electric motors?

Although, maybe companies like Mazda and BMW, which use hydrogen to power an IC engine, are onto something?

— Lexus1555 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/4/2009 11:36:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

veyron1001

Far less emissions to make. Lighter as there are no batteries. Also the rotary engine is lighter than a F1 V8 motor by about 20 lbs. No tax on fuel if you can do electrolysis at home and compared to petrol the machine will pay its self off easily. Hydrogen is combustible in its self.

— veyron1001 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/6/2009 10:32:01 PM | | Votes: 1   

Kthorn

Perhaps Mazda needn't waste their time with this stuff. Perhaps BMW can throw them a bone with one of these award winnig engines...

International Engine of the Year Winners

2008 Winners
Best New Engine of 2008: BMW 2-litre Diesel Twin Turbo (123d)
1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: BMW-PSA 1.6-litre Turbo
2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre Twin Turbo (135, 335, X6)
3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 4-litre V8 (M3)
Above 4-litre: BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6)
International Engine of the Year 2008: BMW 3-litre Twin Turbo (135, 335, X6)

2007 Winners
Best New Engine: BMW 3-litre Twin Turbo (335i)
Best Performance Engine: BMW 5-litre V10
1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: BMW-PSA 1.6-litre Turbo (MINI Cooper S, Peugeot 207)
2-litre to 2.5-litre: BMW 2.5-litre (325, 525, Z4, X3)
2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre Twin Turbo (335i)
Above 4-litre: BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6)
International Engine of the Year 2007: BMW 3-litre Twin Turbo (335i)

2006 Winners
Best Performance Engine: BMW 5-litre V10
2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre Twin Turbo Diesel
3-litre to 4-litre: BMW M 3.2-litre
Above 4-litre: BMW 5-litre V10
International Engine of the Year 2006: BMW 5-litre V10

2005 Winners
Best New Engine: BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6)
Best Performance Engine: BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6)
2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre Twin-Turbo Diesel (535d)
3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 3.2-litre (M3)
Above 4-litre: BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6)
International Engine of the Year 2005: BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6)

2004 Winners
2-litre to 2.5-litre: BMW 2.5-litre (325i, X3, 525i Z4)
3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 3.2-litre (M3)

2003 Winners
1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: MINI Supercharged 1.6-litre (Cooper S)
2-litre to 2.5-litre: BMW 2.5-litre (325i, 525i, Z4)
3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 3.2-litre (M3)

2002 Winners
Best New Engine: BMW 4.4-litre Valvetronic
2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre
3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 3.2-litre
Above 4-litre: BMW 4.4-litre Valvetronic
International Engine of the Year 2002: BMW 4.4-litre Valvetronic

2001 Winners
Best New Engine: BMW 3.2-litre
1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: BMW 1.8-litre Valvetronic
2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre
3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 3.2-litre
International Engine of the Year 2001: BMW 3.2-litre

2000 Winners
2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre TDi
3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 4-litre V8 TDi

1999 Winners
2.5-liter to 3-litre: BMW 3-liter TDi
3-liter to 4-litre: BMW 4-liter V8 TDi
Above 4-litres: BMW 5.34-liter V12

Damn that takes up a lot of space....

— Kthorn (View Profile)

Posted on 1/4/2009 11:54:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Govnar27

Mazda Mr. Wankel, is a demi god. Let mazda continue to explore the infinite horizon of the rotary. I love those swirly triangles

— Govnar27 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/29/2009 8:29:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

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