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Boost it!

SOUND OFF: Has Detroit Just Become Another Dirty Word?

Agent009 submitted on 11/18/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 1:14:19 PM

22 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: www.freep.com

I've always driven a Chrysler.

I grew up in a house in Warren that is blocks away from a Dodge truck plant and a General Motors powertrain plant. Sometimes when I drive over to my old neighborhood now, I see people crossing the street to go to work.

So you'll excuse me if I don't know why the so-called bright minds that drove all those deadly derivatives down Wall Street deserve a bailout far more than the guy or gal who drives a car off the line.

Why should General Motors Corp. be forced to fail? But Bear Stearns and American International Group get rescued?

Each night when I go home and turn on the television, I find myself insulted by the righteous tone on cable or the networks. Look, I've always understood that many people do not like American cars or union workers or car company CEOs.

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SOUND OFF: Has Detroit Just Become Another Dirty Word?

About the Author

Agent009

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."

— Agent009 (View Profile)


User Comments

StarSearch

No, just another dirty city.

— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 1:58:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

1UAW

Please grow up.

— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 10:49:11 PM | | Votes: -3   

randy33

America doesn't hate DETROIT, they hate these failed idiots:

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2011-chevy-volt/


They aren't hated because they FAILED to design attractive and desirable cars.

No, they are hated for designing such fugly clunkers WHILE PAYING THEMSELVES six- and seven-figure salaries for year after FAILED year. And now, they are DESPISED for having the GALL to beg me to work longer hours every night to hand them over a freaking donation.

— randy33 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/19/2008 1:49:14 AM | | Votes: 2   

mercuryguy

Someday Asia will build all the cars we drive. A day will come when our cyclical demand increases for Autos and Asia decides to cut production in OPEC fashion.

Did we not learn our lesson from OPEC?

Why does America seek to be less independent, but at the same time say we need to be freed from Foreign suppliers?

Will China and other nations be nice people forever? Or will greed change their attitude

Oil producing countries are our friends when we get our oil cheap, then our enemy on days when OPEC tightens the screws.

The day will arrive, when we will be debating on Capitol Hill, how we can relive our dependence on Foreign Autos, because the cost of foreign cars will have nearly bankrupted the American consumer.

— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 2:02:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

AmazonPrinceIS350

Mercuryguy then tell Bob Lutz to stop stealing the money he should be investing. Americans just don't like how American cars look lately, that's not our fault.They look like shit! Except for the new Saturns and kinda like those.

— AmazonPrinceIS350 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 3:43:38 PM | | Votes: 2   

1UAW

Amen!

— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 10:55:59 PM | | Votes: 2   

answer

If the big 3 would just stop offering way too many models, up their build quality, and give us the good stuff they've been offering to Europe, they might be worth saving.

Detroit's going through a rough patch, but hey, at least the Pistons have Iverson now!

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 3:59:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

american_made

WOW, another ignorant comment by another stupid idiot. What American product have you driven lately? Go drive a Buick Enclave or a New Denali, even the CTS, or how bout a G8, quality? I just hate stupid people

— american_made (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 5:24:11 PM | | Votes: 2   

veyron1001

Quality > Quantity. BMW, Porsche and VW for example

— veyron1001 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 5:41:32 PM | | Votes: 1   

bigTYME

"Michigan has been in a recession for years -- not just a few months." Very true. I have never seen it this bad in my life and it just keeps getting worse.

It sucks to see how much effort GM and Ford have put into a turnaround and it has not payed back. I don't want people to stop buying imports. I am not affiliated with any automaker. I just can't stand people bashing the Big 3 and saying they should just die off based on experiences they had years ago. Give credit where credit is due. GM, Ford, and even Chrysler have made amazing cars within the last 5 years.

— bigTYME (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 7:29:22 PM | | Votes: 3   

veyron1001

bigTYME can you name one?

— veyron1001 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 9:21:34 PM | | Votes: 0   

1UAW

veyron1001.... Corvette, CTS = COTY 2008, Malibu, North American car of the year 2008, Aura ,G8, Enclave, Fushion, Traverse, G6, solstice, sky, outlook all great cars! so stop bashing the big3

— 1UAW (View Profile)

Posted on 11/18/2008 10:54:59 PM | | Votes: 1   

answer

Wow "american_made",

You call me ignorant and then make a comment like that?

Spurned on by the likes of Toyota and the other major Asian players, the American auto industry has made gigantic gains in reliability and build quality in the past decade or so.

HOWEVER, they still lag behind the Asian makes overall. This fact is made all the more relevant when looking at the more mass-volume produced cars.

Yeah some top tier Caddys and Buicks and even Lincolns do well in initial quality studies (that's INITIAL Quality mind you), but for vehicles under the national average new car price, they aren't doing well at all.

And yeah, I've driven the cars you speak of, and a whole lot more than that too. I know what I'm talking about.

Looks like you are the ignorant one. You dismiss the self-inflicted wounds that have left the big three mortally wounded by saying that their build quality might impress someone for a scant few months?

And what about kick ass cars like Ford's Mondeo that aren't offered here? Or cars like Pontiac's GTO which get visually castrated by the time they're sold here?

Is everyone else who is not buying a domestic vehicle a "stupid idiot", or are they just not satisifed with what they're being offered?

Your mix of arrogance and ignorance is obviously shared by those in charge of the Detroit firms. Sad for us to have to listen yet again to the same regurgitated excuses, and sadder still for all the hard-working employees of the big three who are the true victims.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 11/19/2008 1:21:40 AM | | Votes: 1   

randy33

"Corvette, CTS = COTY 2008, Malibu, North American car of the year 2008, Aura ,G8, Enclave, Fushion, Traverse, G6, solstice, sky, outlook all great cars! so stop bashing the big3" -1UAW

1. Corvette = awesome car, $19k overpriced. CTS = sensational car, $16k overpriced. C.O.T.Y. = payola.

2. Malibu = fine car, $4k OVERPRICED.

3. G8 = great car, $6k OVERPRICED.

4. Enclave = fugly, $11k OVERPRICED.

5. Fusion = FUGLY. OMG!

6. Traverse = $10k OVERPRICED.

7. G6 = ugly, $3k OVERPRICED.

8. Solstice/Sky = $4k overpriced.

9. Outlook = great suv, $17k OVERPRICED.


Jesus, 1UAW ---- SEE A TREND HERE?


This is why Big3 fail. OVERPRICED, UNDER-developed vehicles. Lack of executive vision. Lack of design leadership. Lack of understanding

— randy33 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/19/2008 2:02:02 AM | | Votes: 2   

bigTYME

randy, the OVERPRICED figures you speak of don't mean anything. What do you base it on? All it is, is your opinion. My opinions are completely different, and I respect yours.

Veyron1001, you ask me to name one, and I will and I will base it on my opinion just like randy did, but I will base it on my personal experience. I have a 2008 CTS, and I have only dealt with one problem, a weak window motor. Not a thing other than that. Right now I am at about 15k miles. This car is comfortable, refined, and the handling is of the best balance in a car that I have driven. The steering is not heavy but not soft. This car is quiet and smooth on the roads. The gadgets in it still amazes me everyday. The dash is stitched in leather, the transmission is smooth, the engine is quiet and loud when you want it to be. I don't know where else I can exemplify the quality of the car. The doors are solid, the leather seats are crafted in good quality. The radio system is great. Also it is not that I haven't had a foreign car. Prior to this car I had an '06 Infiniti G35 Coupe. What a car. If I can name one thing I miss is the exhaust note. Some things I don't, extreme road noise, heavy steering, the plate around the shifter became loose at about 10k miles, and the engine started making a weird noise at ignition towards the end of my lease. The chairs felt flimsy, and the suspension was so stiff that you'd break your neck on a big bump. Remember these are my opinions. It was a nice car, looked nice, performance was decent, but it was missing the refinement. That is what the CTS offers me. I'm sure the M35/M45 has that refinement, but it is up there in pricing. So randy the CTS is relatively a bargain to me. Also, I averaged about 17 mpg in the G35, on premium, and my AWD CTS is doing 20 mpg on regular unleaded. I know the G35 is more of sports car, and the CTS is more upscale. I prefer the CTS because of the quality. Bottom line, this domestic is as good as a foreign car, if not better.

— bigTYME (View Profile)

Posted on 11/19/2008 2:54:59 PM | | Votes: 0   

bigTYME

randy, the OVERPRICED figures you speak of don't mean anything. What do you base it on? All it is, is your opinion. My opinions are completely different, and I respect yours.

Veyron1001, you ask me to name one, and I will and I will base it on my opinion just like randy did, but I will base it on my personal experience. I have a 2008 CTS, and I have only dealt with one problem, a weak window motor. Not a thing other than that. Right now I am at about 15k miles. This car is comfortable, refined, and the handling is of the best balance in a car that I have driven. The steering is not heavy but not soft. This car is quiet and smooth on the roads. The gadgets in it still amazes me everyday. The dash is stitched in leather, the transmission is smooth, the engine is quiet and loud when you want it to be. I don't know where else I can exemplify the quality of the car. The doors are solid, the leather seats are crafted in good quality. The radio system is great. Also it is not that I haven't had a foreign car. Prior to this car I had an '06 Infiniti G35 Coupe. What a car. If I can name one thing I miss is the exhaust note. Some things I don't, extreme road noise, heavy steering, the plate around the shifter became loose at about 10k miles, and the engine started making a weird noise at ignition towards the end of my lease. The chairs felt flimsy, and the suspension was so stiff that you'd break your neck on a big bump. Remember these are my opinions. It was a nice car, looked nice, performance was decent, but it was missing the refinement. That is what the CTS offers me. I'm sure the M35/M45 has that refinement, but it is up there in pricing. So randy the CTS is relatively a bargain to me. Also, I averaged about 17 mpg in the G35, on premium, and my AWD CTS is doing 20 mpg on regular unleaded. I know the G35 is more of sports car, and the CTS is more upscale. I prefer the CTS because of the quality. Bottom line, this domestic is as good as a foreign car, if not better.

— bigTYME (View Profile)

Posted on 11/19/2008 2:55:30 PM | | Votes: 0   

Designer1

What is this? Did we just discover that the garbage 3 are dirty? It has been going for decades and people like me screamed for them to fix their shitty product so OUR country would survive, but many idiots and arrogant fools kept on defending them, until this. Now, did we wake up and smelled the roses or are we still blinded by our arrogance and stupidity?

— Designer1 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/19/2008 8:32:23 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

doctorproctor

Just caught CNN report on the hearings by the big three for more dough and amazed that GM and Ford (in report) in spite of this 'financial crisis' come with cap in hand while still flying one of their many private jets to ferry their execs there! CNN: GM chairman's flight to washington $20,000 vs. current coach flight available for only $288. GM and Ford have a fleet of jets to maintain for execs and their wives to use on a REGULAR basis PLUS their exhorbitant salaries...yet their crying about the 'dire straits' their in....GET REAL!!! The CNN cameras showed Ford's chairman stepping out of one of the companies luxury jet's and climbing in behind the wheel of......WHAT?....a Mercedes!! The only thing these guys are worried about is their own pocketbooks.

— doctorproctor (View Profile)

Posted on 11/19/2008 10:43:37 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

mercuryguy

I rented a Kia, and broght it back and asked for a different car. It was very cheaply made.

The parking brake handle was made of tin that looked like someone made it in a bamboo hut somewhere.

It felt like it was going to break if I exerted too much force.

I've seen beter quality work on a beer can.

But somhow, becase it has an Asian label, it is somehow better, no matter what.

— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 11/19/2008 11:22:30 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

mini22

Look the US car companies have made some changes and do make some better cars now. But there are still some vehicles that are not up to snuff. You still hear about some engine fires in Ford trucks due to cheap wiring and switches. Ford still sells the Lincoln Towncar and Mercury Marquis,interior quality on most Chrysler cars is still abysmal,and so far none of the 3 can produce a decent small car to compete in ALL areas with foreign competion.(what I mean by ALL is interior quality and engine refinement). Now Ford is going to make the European Fiesta and Focus here for sale but why did we have to wait so long. Why does the Mustang not have IRS and yet it competes with the new 370Z and others?Why did Ford need to buy Jaguar and Aston Martin? Why can't GM afford to make a complete RWD car line for Pontiac?If it is FWD whats the point of keeping it?Why does GM need a GMC which only sells gas guzzeling trucks? Why did GM need to buy Saab?Why did GM need to buy Hummer. Above all why did the US car companies capitulate to the UAW and now pay more then twice what a non union auto worker makes in salary and benefits

— mini22 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/20/2008 12:41:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

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