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SOUND OFF: Should Toyota Make a Hybrid Tundra?

Agent009 submitted on 07/02/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 3:35 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[30] user comments | category: Misc News

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SOUND OFF: Should Toyota Make a Hybrid Tundra?

When you think of green automakers, the number one choice for many is Toyota.

With their pioneering efforts in Hybrid technologies they have arguably have solidified themselves the benchmark to beat in green technology. With no fewer than 3 choices under the Toyota banner and another 3 models under the Lexus marque, no one in the industry has a more extensive lineup of eco friendly hybrids.

Toyota has stated the future focus will be based to a large degree on the hybrid becoming a core technology. This is evident with the future plans of making available a hybrid option on all future Lexus models, which has sent a strong message to all of the premium makers that eco-friendly is in. Speculation also surfaced last month that a separate marque is in the works, to market only hybrid vehicles. It seems like no stone has been left unturned to bring hybrids to every market.

With that in mind the only fly in the ointment the green image may be the Tundra. The thirsty nature of this massive vehicle has placed it squarely in the crosshairs of the eco-friendly advocates. While not the thirstiest vehicle in the segment, neither does the Tundra excel at prodigious fuel economy.

But why couldn’t it be?

Could outstanding mileage and the raw power that the hybrid can provide, solidify the Tundra in the almost impenetrable US truck market?

Do you think Toyota should build a Hybrid Tundra? What are the pros and cons?

Comments:

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SupraNeverBack - 7/2/2007 3:50:32 PM

+2 Boost

Only the cost would stop it. Toyota has already sold Hybrid Diesel truck with 25+% FE improvement for years.

reply to this comment

Will_ - 7/2/2007 4:00:07 PM

+2 Boost

Just to piss off Detroit even more, I say go for it.

reply to this comment

EL34 - 7/2/2007 8:31:46 PM

-3 Boost

Yes I agree.

Then they could offer a $10,000 rebate to get them off the lot.

toolatetorace - 7/2/2007 10:09:49 PM

-2 Boost

such an attitude

Caddyman07 - 7/2/2007 4:09:44 PM

+2 Boost

Why not???

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Designer1 - 7/2/2007 4:21:57 PM

+1 Boost

I believe they do have that planned as well, I remember reading something about the Tundra and Sequoia to also be hybrids. But then the question of the price will be in place and in which models of Tundra should they provide it. I think the only Tundra model that should get the hybrid is the base model, since that's the real one that is worked the most, the other (4 doors limited, SR5) models are mostly baught for fun driving, people that like driving trucks to work. These will be very expensive and harder to sell.
Then the question of what difference ar saving in gas vs. what the buyer pays for his hybrid Tundra will be like. And for this lets compare the LS460L vs LS600hL.

LS640L fully loaded: ~$85k
LS600hL fully loaded: ~120k

LS460L power: 380 hps
LS600hL power: 438 hps

LS460L mpg: 19/27
LS600hL mgp: 20/22

Now I know rich people that buy these cars don't care, but I speak out of numbering equation, an engineering and fair mind.

As all knows I love Lexus cars and would not change them for anything else, but when it gets to hybrids in big cars I don't agree with their numbers. You can see I'm a fair person. :-)

So, I have to pay some $35k more for the hybrid, yet its only 1 mile better in town and yet 5 miles worst on the highway. Ok, I have all wheel drive in it and maybe few more small features here and there, but I think the all wheel drive is the only difference.

So, the car being driven MOST of the time on high ways, and have paid that much more to it, its simply not worth it at all!! And there is no point to it what so ever, why? If it was really pointed to compete against the V12's and specifically the 760iL which makes same power with much less mpg, but now the next 760iL (or what ever will be called) will produce at least 500 hps, so this leaves the LS600hL stranded for another 5+ years until its revised.

So I think Lexus made a mistake of making the LS600hL, cause for $35k less I can get the same briliant LS460L and if I want to beat the V12's all I need to do is spend $10k to turbo charge the LS460L and it will beat the all V12's asses and still be better on gas than them and still for much more money in my pocket.

So, I think Toyota needs to re-think its plan of putting hybrids in big cars and setting their price vs. what they offer vs. targetted competition.

reply to this comment

Will_ - 7/2/2007 4:32:54 PM

+3 Boost

An Ls460 fully loaded only runs you $85K? What is your zip code? The most expensive package I've seen rounds out to about $93K.

Designer1 - 7/2/2007 4:39:37 PM

+1 Boost

ops sorry, typed it wrong, meant $95k :-)

enp83 - 7/3/2007 2:25:56 PM

+2 Boost

Designer1 your numbers are wrong. You are quoting '07 EPA numbers for the LS460L and '08 EPA numbers for the LS600hL...apples and oranges. Here are the real numbers...

LS460L (REAR WHEEL DRIVE) 380hp 16city/24hwy
LS600hL (ALL WHEEL DRIVE) 438hp 20city/22hwy
MB S550 4matic (AWD) 382hp 14city/21hwy
BMW 750li (RWD ONLY) 360hp 15city/23hwy
Audi A8L (AWD) 350hp 16city/23hwy
Cadillac STS (AWD) 320hp 16city/23hwy
Chrysler 300 (AWD) 350hp 15city/22hwy
Volvo S80 (AWD) 311hp 15city/23hwy
VW Phaeton (AWD) 335hp 14 city/21hwy

Wow look at that, despite weighing more, having a larger engine and more horsepower the LS600hL gets 25% better city mileage compared to the LS460L. Compared to the S550 4matic the LS600hL gets 43% better city gas mileage. Even the cars that get an extra mpg on the highway over the LS600hL, that's only 4.5% better than the LS600hL and the LS600hL still gets 25% better mileage in the city than their cars (even though the LS600hL has 78-127 more hp than those cars rated at 23mpg hwy). So in any kind of mix driving, even if it's 85% highway the LS600hL should have equal or better mpg.

Agent009 - 7/2/2007 4:25:13 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

How about a twin turbocharged diesel hybrid?

Talk about torque!

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Caddyman07 - 7/2/2007 5:44:48 PM

+1 Boost

YUMMY!!!

Rupert - 7/2/2007 6:04:58 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I'd buy that.
Although wheelspin would be a slight problem...

Htay7500 - 7/2/2007 4:32:03 PM

+3 Boost

if your thinking about vans as well, toyota has two hybrid vans only in Japan, the alphard and estima(which was the old previa in the USDM)

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jon21 - 7/2/2007 4:56:34 PM

+1 Boost

How about a TwinTurbo-Plugin-Diesel-Hybrid? :)

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lexusis350 - 7/2/2007 5:09:25 PM

+1 Boost

No. Chevy made a hybrid of the Silverado and it sold so horribly, they stopped making it. I think the same would go for the Tundra hybrid.

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Caddyman07 - 7/2/2007 5:46:31 PM

0 Boost

The hybrid system on the Silverado was stone age compared to the system Toyota would offer on the Tundra...

drew630 - 7/2/2007 6:58:57 PM

+1 Boost

The Silverado hybrid wasn't an economy hybrid. Its sole intended use was for contractors. The hybrid allowed contractors to power their tools, machines, etc. with the truck. This meant that they wouldn't need a separate generator to do so. The reason the truck failed is because 99% of contractors already have/had separate generators and didn't see the need for one in the truck.

BTW, the two-mode Silverado hybrid due out next year will be an economic hybrid.

toolatetorace - 7/2/2007 10:14:33 PM

0 Boost

you are right , trucks don't roll very good and there would be no recharge of the battery and to that end there would be no need to replace the 6K battery in 5-6 years . Hybrid is such a hot topic these days , people flock to them only to get disapointed later on

Qwazywabbit - 7/2/2007 7:19:17 PM

0 Boost

Hybrid is just a gimmick right now-it is not sustainable technology. There is the issue of battery waste.

The near future will be diesel then eventually to hydrogen.

reply to this comment

EnnNorak - 7/2/2007 8:15:20 PM

+1 Boost

Fully agree with Qwazywabbit including an eventual hydrogen economy.

tundrahq - 7/2/2007 10:08:41 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

It's not an "IF" anymore - TundraHeadquarters.com reported that Toyota will be releasing the Tundra Hybrid in 2009 as a 2010 model.

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Agent009 - 7/2/2007 10:28:58 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

provide a link please

tundrahq - 7/3/2007 12:44:30 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2007/05/16/toyota-tundra-hybrid-no-later-than-2010/

reply to this comment

Agent63 - 7/3/2007 2:40:49 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I think their going a little too overboard with hybrid this and that. Trucks should be kept diesel (clean burning diesel that is).

The hybrid hype will eventually phase out and it will be mainstream like how diesel is for fuel efficiency. The LS is over rated but not under rated either. It's a great car and I love it. It does everything well and assures you every time you are riding in comfort. HOWEVER, it lacks the umph if you want to call it that of a high end German uber sedan. ARGUMENTS back would be that the Germans have too much snob appeal and people who drive them are ignorant. However the German's can argue back and say well then why not choose an Audi A8? It's obvious it's an expensive car but maintaining a good level of understated looks.

In the US Lexus is very respected and indeed they deserve it. But to convince a person who has grown up seeing Mercedes/BMW/Audi it is hard to convince them that a Toyota product will be better. However that's why in the States Lexus is so popular. The marketing from the get-go was aimed at the US consumer against all the domestic brands and surely Lexus will win.

A great selling point for Lexus is they are much cheaper than their German rivals. I have asked several owners of Lexus when I was in for servicing why they bought one and they told me it was 'a hell lot easier to afford' than a Mercedes. I respected his comment and of course agreed with him completely.

Lexus is more of an eco-luxury brand IMO. If you spend 80K on a Cadillac why not spend it on an Lexus. But if you spend 150K why not spend it on a Mercedes. That's how I think.

reply to this comment

Will_ - 7/3/2007 7:36:43 AM

+1 Boost

To assume that all Lexus owners somehow secretly wished they could've afforded a Mercedes is quite ridiculous, but I realize that this is the mentality of most German brand supporters. It lets you believe that people choose not to buy German products because they simply are too expensive.

Agent63 - 7/3/2007 6:44:17 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

There are some buyers of Japanese luxury brands that can afford it but they simply just love the Japanese look. I actually think many German supporters have Japanese cars to compliment their German cars. I got mine not because I couldn't afford a Mercedes because I got an S to compliment the Lex and vice versa. Simply because Lexus has made huge improvements and I wanted to give it a shot. It hasn't disappointed me one bit. Even before the current IS/GS was introduced I liked the GS400.

dumpsty - 7/3/2007 2:05:20 PM

+1 Boost

What are the figures for the Camry and the Camry Hybrid?

That difference in price (whatever it is) should be indicative of what the Tundra will be priced around, respectively.

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wbradd3797 - 7/3/2007 4:08:20 PM

+1 Boost

I would buy it if it was a Diesel hybrid.
Will they be the first to mass produce the pinnacle of automotive engineering???

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bevisroy - 7/5/2007 6:11:09 PM

+1 Boost

Lexus ALWAYS understates their 0 - 60 times by at least .5 seconds. Here are the results of the 5 Top Luxury Cars in this test which was reported in the January Issue of Car and Driver. Please note these tests were all done on the same day at about the same time and at the same altitude. The results reflect the average of 3 runs and all cars are the 2007 vintage.

Mercedes S550 5.6, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.1 (Benz show 5.4 in their specs)
BMW 750iL 5.7, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.2
Jag XJ Super 6.0 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.5
Lexus LS460L 6.2 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.6
Audi A8 6.8 0 - 60 quarter mile 15.2

Note that Lexus, as usual, is more than the 5.4 the manufacturer CLAIMS to get by .8 seconds.

Also note the LS430 (prior model the LS460 replaced) was rated at 295 HP and was actually 278 when Lexus corrected their rating. And there were no refunds or apologies from the so-called "quality" car company. ABC - Always Be Careful what you buy from the (REPREHENSIBLE) Toyota/Lexus people.....

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