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SOUND OFF: Why Does Everyone Pick On Toyota?

Agent009 submitted on 11/20/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 11:50 AM
from: www.detnews.com

[143] user comments | category: Misc News

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SOUND OFF: Why Does Everyone Pick On Toyota?

Toyota Motor Corp which has climbed to second place in the US auto market this year, expects to increase its share of sales in 2008 and is steeling itself to deal with the scrutiny and criticism that have grown along with its prominence.

"We have to develop a little bit thicker skin, and understand that that's part of the game we play today," said Jim Lentz, newly appointed president of Toyota Motor Sales USA and the highest-ranking American executive at the Japanese automaker.

"We also have to recognize that some of the criticism is legitimate, and we have to make sure that legitimate criticism (is something) we look at and spend a lot of time analyzing and change direction, if necessary," he said in an interview Monday. "We can't be arrogant and say everything we do is right."

Lately, many groups are finding fault with Toyota. At the Los Angeles auto show press preview last week, environmentalists singled out the automaker for criticism after it rolled out a redesigned large Sequoia SUV. Last month, the influential Consumer Reports magazine said it would stop automatically recommending new Toyota models after the automaker's reliability ratings slipped.

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Kinger - 11/20/2007 1:31:35 PM

+11 Boost

What? So we folks in the rest of the world don't know what's best? What an arrogant and biased statement.

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r15mohd - 11/20/2007 2:31:36 PM

+3 Boost

lol, thats hilarious....you compare toyota to the literacy of Americans.

and please tell me MidEngine, where is America on the education/literacy, matter fact, intelligence chart compared to everyone else in the world.

lmao...thats just to funny!

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KillBot - 11/20/2007 2:36:43 PM

+3 Boost

For starters MOST Americans no nothing about cars or driving. Now, Toyota is a good company, but it's not a driver driven company. There cars are nice, but not fun to drive. They're grocery getters and nothing more. Other than the IS-F and the ,yet to released, LF-A, which are both wearing Lexus badges. Toyota has nothing for the driving enthusiast. To, put it plainly, Toyota's cars are made for people who like to ride to where they need to go rather than DRIVE.

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r15mohd - 11/20/2007 2:54:03 PM

+3 Boost

there has been very DRIVER oriented toyota vehicles made, still around. though they may not be local in the USA, they are available.

Supra TT
Celica GT4
Corolla GTS AE86
Chaser
Starlet EP82

have you had the oppurtunity to drive these vechicles? they are certainly DRIVER oriented...and in Japan there are new models which offer DRIVER pleasure as you mention...

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 5:04:02 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

houstoncutie, are you implying that the Toyota Corolla is the best car in the world? And that sales are the only way to decide a car's greatness? Then the Bugatti Veyron is one of the worst cars in the world.

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 7:05:46 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

It's NOT, it just sells well because it's CHEAP and easy to own. It's not even close to the world's "favorite car," because usually, people want something that they CAN'T have (e.g. Veyron), not something that's easily attainable like the Corolla.

Does the name "Corolla" excite you?

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 10:21:19 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

What does that have to do with anything???

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85bmw745i - 11/21/2007 1:37:03 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

The Ford explorer was the best selling SUV a while back and it was the biggest cheap pile of crap I have ever driven

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85bmw745i - 11/21/2007 1:42:48 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Although I will say Toyota makes a damn good car. My celica I had in the Air Force was trouble free. Another thing, If a Toyota breaks a timing belt, no engine damage will occur because they aren't zero tolerance engines, unlike numerous audi/volkswagen 1.8t 20v engines which were notoriously troublesome. I am still a BMW Fan though. All of my BMW's have been reliable, especially my old faithful 87 325e, which has seen hell and back and then some. I love Audi interiors and styling, the a8 is just a beautiful sedan. Currently I have a land rover discovery series 2, and my 745i and 325e. they have all been great so far.

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stone - 11/20/2007 12:20:24 PM

+2 Boost

Because Toyota is on top, kind of like automotive penis envy. The only import to ever outsell GM, and a customer base that would line up to pay 20 grand for a Toyota scooter if it were advertised as a hybrid. I am not a Toyota fan, but I know for sure just about ANY automaker would trade places with them in a heartbeat.

Stone

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kart1 - 11/20/2007 12:21:01 PM

+7 Boost

I am a Toyota fan, as can be seen by my symbol on the top left of every post (If you do not know what that is then it shows that you are a huge fan). But in my opinion today's Toyotas are not enthusiast material. They are boring, not sporty, and made to be good cars for the family not just good cars. This anti-enthusiast company is not the best car company in the eyes of the people, yet it is the best in management, production, sales, and profits. So many people hate it for not being a brand that has more passionate products and pick on it because they don't like Toyota. Others probably just hate Japanese brands because of their previous perceived notions.

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Need4Speed - 11/20/2007 12:23:12 PM

0 Boost

That's Toyota's problem not mine...give me cars!

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Shredmo - 11/20/2007 12:41:38 PM

+1 Boost

From a corporate standpoint:
Toyotas have long been considered at the top of their game, naturally the comany at the top is going to be picked on the most.

From an enthusiast's standpoint:
A Toyota fan is often looked upon in the same manner one looks at a bandwagon sports fan. Depending on the depth of this "fans" automotive knowledge, this can be very grating. I personally have had in-depth discussions with knowledgable Toyota fans, as well as clueless Toyota fans. The knowledgable Toyota fans are fun to discuss topics with whereas the clueless Toyota fans are agrivating to be around.

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Star - 11/20/2007 1:18:05 PM

-7 Boost

"The knowledgable Toyota fans are fun to discuss topics "

"Knowleadgeable Toyota fan"...LOL. There is no such thing as a knowledgeable Toyota fan. If they would be knowledgeable they would not be Toyota fans. Is as simple as that.

XYZZ - 11/21/2007 9:45:32 AM

+3 Boost

anusStar makes yet another IGNORANT overgeneralization.

i am as much an enthusiast as just about anyone else here. i just happen to not have the deep pockets to buy and MAINTAIN sporty-but-not-absolutely-reliable cars.

(i DO own two motorcycles that provide all the speed and twisty-turny fixes i need.)

i own three toyotas (one a classic awaiting restoration) because they are about the cheapest to own and OPERATE, affording me numerous OTHER pleasures and luxuries. i am NOT a ONE-DIMENSIONAL gear head who lacks OTHER interests.

and, i will still pit my automotive/mechanical engr'g knowledge against yours ANY time.

Shredmo - 11/21/2007 10:05:36 AM

+2 Boost

I think you meant "brown" star. :)

XYZZ - 11/22/2007 3:49:36 AM

+1 Boost

LOL! that too. i was just being a BIT more specific for those who can't make the connection you suggest!

EL34 - 11/20/2007 12:46:56 PM

-4 Boost

Why Does Everyone Pick On Toyota?

Because they make ugly cars.

:(

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answer - 11/20/2007 1:14:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

Logically speaking, if the cars were as uniformly ugly as you say, how the hell could Toyota be where they are today?

EL34 - 11/20/2007 1:32:55 PM

-7 Boost

Reliability.

That's the only reson Toyota are where they are today.

The Orange Toyota radio and TV jingle is, "You won't get a lemon, from Toyota of Orange".

Once every car company builds reliability into their cars like Toyota then you will see Toyota fall from grace.

r15mohd - 11/20/2007 1:47:36 PM

+3 Boost

then whats the keep back if it's that easy?

surely BMW GM VW would of taken notice by now, its been more than 15-20 years of constant reliable products.

r15mohd - 11/20/2007 2:41:01 PM

+6 Boost

you give us an article from Germany on how German cars are more reliable...

MidEngine, you really need to take off your blinders.....in AMERICA japanese vehicles on a whole are more reliable than German vehicles.

why in AMERICA? no bias towards either...think my friend, THINK!!!

r15mohd - 11/20/2007 2:58:28 PM

+7 Boost

MidEngine...

your second link has no merit...it has Jaguar with a better reliability rate than all of the vehicles on the very list.

lmao...good job MidEngine!

r15mohd - 11/21/2007 9:34:34 AM

0 Boost

you're the one who provided me the data, a data with no key to interpret the info AT ALL...from looking over the numbers i wouldnt expect anyone to assume the numbers were read the way i did read it.

companies like plymouth, oldsmobile, mitsubishi, land rover, volkswagen, KIA, hyundai, DAEWOO all have 25% or lower.

so in all, your "reliability" report info makes all the cars i listed above very hihg in reliability. in the REAL WORLD...i think many word assume otherwise.

keep trying MidEngine....all your saved attchments on your desktop only flatters yourself! no one else believes in your "toyota is crap b/s"

toyota vehicles with millions of miles on their motors can attest to that! i wonder, do you have those milestone vehicles saved to your desktop too?

r15mohd - 11/21/2007 9:37:59 AM

0 Boost

would***

Bill - 11/20/2007 12:53:41 PM

+1 Boost

I think people pick on Toyota because of their:

A) Fanboys

B) Boring designs, but successful cars

C) Jealousy

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Davidkay - 11/20/2007 1:01:04 PM

-2 Boost

Why would anyone pick on Toyota? Remember how American cars rode the wave of past performance through the 80's, when they didn't deserve it? That's Toyota now. Overpriced; resistant to even admit problems let alone initiate recalls (US Govt has to order them to recall), class-action lawsuits against engines with hotspots throughout, etc, etc. GM's number one problem vehicle regarding maintenance: The Pontiac Vibe, made for GM by..you guessed it...Toyota.

The biggest reason: The cars are simply ugly.

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r15mohd - 11/20/2007 1:57:50 PM

-1 Boost

lol...the consumer rating on the matrix is high. i don't know about the vibe. they are idential and use almsot all the same pieces...is it just the fact the GM has a blight with vehicles and reliability?

XYZZ - 11/21/2007 9:56:21 AM

+1 Boost

gm agreed to a joint venture with toyota in the 1980s, so it could LEARN from toyota how to put together reliable cars. gm threw in the Fremont, CA plant which it was about to close anyway, and toyota put in the production lines and assembly SYSTEM.

the initial products were corollas. about 1/2 were rebadged as chevy prizms. they still make corolla matrixes, and the gm version is the pontiac vibe.

within just a few years, mgmt guru tom peters said that the BEST ASSEMBLED CAR in the WHOLE gm lineup, not excluding buicks and caddys, was the prizm!

XYZZ - 11/21/2007 10:10:20 AM

+1 Boost

this story best illustrates the diff bet'n gm cars of the '80s and toyotas:

in planning for the launch of the new chevy Prizm, gm mgmt had to order spare parts for their dealers, to support the new car. they sized the orders by extrapolating the amount of spare parts that their dealers needed for OTHER small gm cars.

after a few years, the chevy dealers had this to say about prizm buyers: "They drove the new cars out, and just NEVER CAME BACK." the dealers ended up being STUCK with TONS of spare parts that the reliable corolla/prizms simply NEVER NEEDED!

CR over the years backed up tom peters' assessment: the Prizm --and in later years the Vibe-- always ranked as THE MOST RELIABLE vehicle in the whole gm lineup.

carguy68 - 11/20/2007 1:02:27 PM

-5 Boost

because they only make cars that only girls and old people would buy...mabe that's why they take longer to brake down.

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stash84 - 11/20/2007 7:54:14 PM

+3 Boost

mabe that's why they take longer to brake down.--lol

...they take longer to break down.

that statement is true.

I dont know about the first sentence

chuck717 - 11/20/2007 1:08:35 PM

-1 Boost

When you are on top human nature is to searce you out and ask why are you so great some times they find out what is all the hoopla about they are a car company.
Like i have posted before , no auto mfg is bringing new ideas forward, if Toyota made cars that got 60 mpg or all electric that can go 500 miles on a charge and tires that don't need replacement or brakes for 100k then we all would say they earned that right top dog but selling a ton of cars means you are marketing well and you have a decent product.
People just don't find a lot of jazz or inovation to go crazy over them or anybody else really?

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XYZZ - 11/21/2007 10:17:13 AM

+1 Boost

toyotas don't have to be as SPECTACULARLY SUPERIOR as you propose.

they only have to be say 10% better. and they are. have been for DECADES. so they're now on top.

answer - 11/20/2007 1:12:43 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

That's just the way our culture works.

Business success and celebrity both are made targets of when they are on top or when they are at rock bottom.

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Star - 11/20/2007 1:22:03 PM

-8 Boost

It doesn't look to me like people especially pick on Toyota...most of the idiots just PICK UP a Toyota.

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stash84 - 11/20/2007 1:31:03 PM

+2 Boost

hater

XYZZ - 11/21/2007 10:25:59 AM

+1 Boost

ANUSstar is among the DOLTS who likely think jeeps are the most advanced vehicles on the planet.

so when people actually choose toyotas instead, which represent rocket ship technology in comparison, he is SO BEFUDDLED he thinks they must be idiots. when it is actually HE who is mentally challenged and totally out of touch with reality.

Star - 11/21/2007 11:07:23 AM

-1 Boost

GayAlex Considering the nature of your comments I recommend you to stick to your favorite site gaywheels.com. Good Bye.

PlanB - 11/20/2007 2:06:05 PM

+3 Boost

Toyota is picked on because of their no.1 position and how they got there, by making very reliable (albeit boring) transportation devices. Outside of a handful of cars they've made, that's all you can really call them. But the rest of the auto industry have mostly caught up to them as far as reliability goes and most have even surpassed them as far as styling goes. So for those reasons, they will be nitpicked until further notice from fans, press, competition, etc.

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ThierryHenry14 - 11/20/2007 3:16:13 PM

+7 Boost

Theres nothing wrong with Toyota. Its the fanboys who uses toyota's success for Lexus, and Lexus' success (whatever that may be) for Toyota. They intertwine the two.

Then there's the people who make Toyota more than what it is. Its a great car, perhaps best in its class, in some case, but do not over do it and say its the best at everything.

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Bill - 11/20/2007 3:34:34 PM

0 Boost

Toyota's are rarely best in class, Thierry. When it comes to comfort, handling, appeal etc., other makes lead over Toyota. Toyota's might be class leaders in reliability.

Star - 11/20/2007 4:37:06 PM

-5 Boost

^^^The ones broken down are Japanese cars not German cars. You need a pair of glasses.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 5:12:14 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

I am 100% serious--GS300, do you REALLY see ANY broken down German cars? Because I don't, I just don't. I barely see any cars on the side of the road, anyway. They may have electrical glitches, but most German cars have flawless mechanical engineering, at least recently.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 5:13:00 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Star, that comment is very cliché. If you have nothing constructive to say, leave.

stash84 - 11/20/2007 8:02:08 PM

+3 Boost

"They may have electrical glitches, but most German cars have flawless mechanical engineering, at least recently."

Yes, recently, they have improved greatly as far as mechanical engineering..and yes, they occasionally have electrical glitches. i used to work for a mechanic and i agree.

Star never has anything constructive to say..not even constructive criticism..he just talks bs

Star - 11/21/2007 8:38:46 AM

-1 Boost

S4cabriofone Why don't YOU leave Audi fanboi? I'm afraid your definition of "something constructive" is limited to praise for Audi. And you are not going to hear that from me since I'm not Audi fanboi like you are.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/22/2007 1:13:46 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Do you seriously think that? You need to read some of my posts, buddy.

Star - 11/22/2007 4:30:12 PM

0 Boost

S4 I did..but regretted the wasted time immediately after...buddy.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/23/2007 12:25:42 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

You just don't get it, do you?

I may own an Audi, but that does not mean I can't admire/aspire to own cars from other brands. YOU, on the other hand, are ridiculous. You can't ever admit to liking a Japanese car, only because it's Japanese (or not European, depends how you look at it). Although I admit to liking European cars better (by a long shot), that doesn't mean excellent models aren't produced by Japanese makes. The Nissan GT-R, Infiniti G, Lexus IS350, Acura MDX, Honda Accord, Mitsubishi EVO X, Nissan 350Z, Lexus LS460 and Infiniti M45 are just a few. Of many.

So what if I the R8 is my favorite car? Obviously, it's justifiable, but that's not what matters right now. It's how YOU are so offended by my opinions. I don't make unsubstantiated claims unless I'm in a fiery mood. Otherwise, it's only my opinions talking. There's no reason for you to take that personally; it's what I THINK. I also want a BMW M3, Porsche 911 Turbo, Porsche GT3, BMW M6, Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG, Mercedes-Benz CL63 AMG, Ferrari 599 GTB (the one car I'd have over the R8), Ferrari F430, Lamborghini LP640, Jaguar XKR, Aston Martin DB9, BMW M5, Maserati Quattroporte, Range Rover Supercharged, Bentley Continental GT Speed, Maserati GranTurismo, BMW 335i coupe and Porsche Cayman S.

But you don't care about any of those. You only care about the one that offends you--the R8. And may I ask... WHY?

ThierryHenry14 - 11/20/2007 3:41:45 PM

+3 Boost

i think toyota leads a few class, like the yaris and camry, but again, best in class is subjective.

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 5:13:27 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Yaris??? The Honda Fit beats it on all counts.

r15mohd - 11/21/2007 1:59:03 PM

+2 Boost

the yaris beats it in the aspect which matters most to this segment...and thats mpg.

every other aspect in this segment can be overlooked. the reason for these vehicles are mpg and thier respective economy. the yaris holds firm!

S4cabriofoxone - 11/22/2007 1:13:00 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

"every other aspect in this segment can be overlooked"

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this website.

As for MPG... do you honestly think the Fit won't get exceptional mileage? It also happens to be MUCH better to drive, MUCH better to look at, MUCH better to be in and MUCH better to own. So THERE.

LexSucks - 11/20/2007 3:59:43 PM

-4 Boost

People pick on Toyota because the make lame lifeless cars.

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answer - 11/20/2007 4:33:28 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

Should we pick on you because you make lame, lifeless comments?

Htay7500 - 11/20/2007 4:06:30 PM

+3 Boost

I was on toyota when they had the Supra TT,
Celica GT4, and the Corolla GTS AE86.

but the LC is the only car I seem to like from the US market. the JDM market has lots of interesting cars like the crown, etc.

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 5:14:19 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

GM is again #1, from the numbers for Q3 this year. They're very close, though.

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 10:19:34 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

It will be a tug-of-war. It's not a "matter of time," it's a "matter of GM." If they go away for some reason, yes, Toyota will be the undisputed #1. But with GM's American comeback it won't be so easy.

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scorpio - 11/20/2007 5:02:01 PM

+1 Boost

toyotas are reliable, well-built, dependable cars....with absolutley no soul and even less desirability.

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/20/2007 5:14:43 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

"We also have to recognize that some of the criticism is legitimate, and we have to make sure that legitimate criticism (is something) we look at and spend a lot of time analyzing and change direction, if necessary," he said in an interview Monday. "We can't be arrogant and say everything we do is right."

THIS, I like. Very nice.

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theoptimisticpessimist - 11/20/2007 7:01:45 PM

+2 Boost

Same reason BMW is;
1. They are #1 in their respective categories.
2. Their fan base.
3. Both company are a bit arrogant.
4. Their fan base.
5. Their fan base.

Did I mention their fan base.

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LEXUSpos - 11/20/2007 7:43:53 PM

-2 Boost

They are a sell-out. Let me know when they make a real car again. The only Toyota worth anything was the Supra, it is long gone. The fanboys have been hanging on to that car for too long. Come out with someting that has a SOLE.

They are trying to be GM, to beat GM. This hurt their rep, and their line-up so so boring.

Joining NASCAR was the nail in the coffin.

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LEXUSpos - 11/20/2007 9:46:08 PM

-1 Boost

Yah that is funny, SOUL.

Oh well my statement is the truth.

Toyota= watered-down boring cars.

EL34 - 11/20/2007 7:50:20 PM

-2 Boost

Your typical Toyota looks like a garden shovel.

:(

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CanadaEh - 11/20/2007 8:20:43 PM

+1 Boost

The reason why people pick on them is because their quality control has gone waaaaaay downhill!! I have a 2005 Tacoma and I have never seen a car/truck with such poor body work, paint job, overall quality of materials in my live. My old 94 Grand Cherocke was 10 times better all but being a massive gas guzzler. Sure Toyota's have reliable drivetrains, but if everything else sucks, I'd rather have a car from a company that gives a s*$@ about what they are making and the quality of their product, like an Audi or BMW. After my experience with this Tacoma, I will be hard pressed to ever buy another Toyota product again. It's that bad!! 2009 A4 Avant, here I come!!

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Porschinator - 11/20/2007 8:23:13 PM

+1 Boost

I do not think we really knock on Toyota on here. If peeps do it is because of the Ass clowns above. Most Auto Makes have fanboys but the Toyota group always call BS when an article is not in Toyotas favor and then get a "In your Face" mentality when an article favors Toyota/Lexus.

"The whole IS-F or IS-A can beat that car" in every sports car related article is a real hoot too. You know who you are and whip that drool off your chin...

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Airliner - 11/20/2007 8:43:11 PM

+1 Boost

I wish we had more people were like you and less people like... you know who.

muppet - 11/20/2007 8:49:00 PM

+4 Boost

Toyota is toyota.... Maybe a Toyota doesnt offer the best confort or the best good looking car but numbers are numbers and the question the you people should ask... why toyota is growing how they do it.. why americans cars are declining in the market thats all

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Bmw8ter - 11/20/2007 8:51:02 PM

0 Boost

I pick on Toyota because......I locked into a $32k car deal for an '07 Camry XLE V6 w/ full warranty, that had the first manufacturer defective V6 engine, and the dealer pretty much didn't give a piss. All they have to do is ignore the customer with the complaints because the customer can't do anything until the car has reached the lemon law limit for it's state, here in the U.S.; what a crock....I still want to beat the piss out of the guy they brought over to the cubicle, that they thought could calm me down....cocky sob.

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XYZZ - 12/17/2007 6:10:11 AM

+1 Boost

you COULD go over the dealer's head and complain to the zone rep.

EL34 - 11/20/2007 8:53:58 PM

-3 Boost

"Why Does Everyone Pick On Toyota?"

Because Toyota is like a scab and we all pick on scabs.

Kind of a scabby company if you ask me .

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lexusis350 - 11/20/2007 8:56:45 PM

+1 Boost

Well, not EVERYONE picks on Toyota, but a lot of people do because they don't understand what they hype is over them. I'm the same way with Hyundai. I hate them and I just don't realize why everyone else does. So I understand why people hate Toyota.

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LEXUSpos - 11/20/2007 9:47:21 PM

0 Boost

Grammar patrol!

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Porschinator - 11/20/2007 9:08:49 PM

-3 Boost

OH..and what is the jealousy thing all about? Jealous of what exactly? Because they are selling more cars? I don't give a $H*&. Good for Toyota. Hmmmm...still thinking about the last time I pulled up next to a Camry in my Porsche and glared in Jealousy.......BWAHAHAHAhahaha....

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SX123 - 11/21/2007 4:24:45 AM

+3 Boost

It is the jealousy to a success of a company.

1970toyotamarc - 11/20/2007 9:08:52 PM

+1 Boost

Boy am i late to this one. I know you all think that by posting 30 times a day, you are somehow making yourself more relevant to the mfrs. But wise up. Although the indutry has made it clear that they are scanning the blogs, the mindless drivel that make up 90% of the posts are likely overlooked. You guys are singing the same song all day, every day.

Toyotas are ugly. My last Toyota fell apart at the seams. Lexus is a poser in the luxury market. Toyota does'nt make cars for enthusiasts. I would like Toyota but I hate the fanboys. This gets so old. We've heard it all before.

Toyotas are not ugly. They have some good designs, some inoffensive designs and some questionable designs. Like most everyone else (except maybe Aston martin).
Increased recalls do not mean Toyotas are wholly unreliable now. They did a recall for floormats for cryin out loud.
Lexus is getting better and better. And it wasnt that long ago that the superior Lexus forced German brands to step up their game. All u German fanboys should be thanking Lexus.
Enthuiasts know that Toyota has had some awesome cars in the past, and will again in he future. they have just chosen to enter some new segments and put their energy there. However, that has not stopped them from building some amazing engines in the past couple years. Toyota is not out of the enthusiast game yet.
And my favorite. Pissing and moaning about fanboys. Fortunately most of the faux lexus fans have given up their idiocy and gotten lives. What is left is some people who have had 20-30 years of good experiences with Toyotas, and we are CONSTANTLY being bashed on this site. And there are only about ten of us to begin with on this site. So if us 10 Toy lovers are that powerful to you, then I need to find a job in Toyota's marketing department. (And lets not start in on some of the German crazies here that if, I were of the same ilk, would turn me off from German cars forever. Fortunately, I will not base my decisions on a bunch of bloggers.)

Now as for the article, two problems. One, Toyota is not far off their projections for this year. They are experiencing single digit growth as they planned. And I doubt they planned on knocking off Ford so soon. And the Tundra is also meeting goals, on track to sell 200,000, despite the article's claims. Toyota is doing just fine, and as Lentz points out, is only using problems as a means to improve.

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LEXUSpos - 11/20/2007 9:36:26 PM

-1 Boost

One word NASCAR!

LOL!

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XYZZ - 11/21/2007 10:40:01 AM

+2 Boost

toyota only entered na