74 Votes

SOUND OFF: Would You Buy An American Car?

Agent009 submitted on 5/1/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 12:40:57 PM

148 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: www.autospies.com

With all of the studies and surveys out there one may get the impression those that dare to buy a American car are left, pretty well impressed.

Don’t believe it? Look at Consumer Reports, JD Power, and True Delta studies, and you see that American cars have come a long way, and many are approaching, and even surpassing what was once considered the best out there. Regardless of origin.

We hear a lot of the past horror stories, the squandering of profits in the heyday, and shoddy workmanship, so it is safe to assume most American manufactures have deservedly received a black eye. But have those days now in the past? Look at the new models coming out of Detroit and you can see glimpses of brilliance on the horizon and maybe the first signs of a genuine turn around.

So I challenge you to put aside your prejudices and stereotypes about American iron, take the time to read the facts and tell us if you can be seduced over to the dark side.

Would you ever buy an American car? And give us the reasons why you might.

SOUND OFF: Would You Buy An American Car?

About the Author

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
— Agent009 (View Profile)

User Comments

I don't think the issue is so much buying an American car, but rather getting the public to take that initial step and give the American car a chance. As recently as last year I was "stuck" with an American car for a rental for several days, and that experience alone is enough to create a major setback for US car makers.

I like the approach Ford has taken in having people drive their cars for a week - it allows a person to experience the product without writing the check. Sadly for a long time incentives and discounts drove a large portion of the US makes that were sold, but with the downturn in the economy, most car makers are discounting.

Getting people to drive the domestic makes is the hurdle, but I think if you can get people behind the wheel, you can create some converts. Personally, I would drive the Malibu over a Camry any day of the week. I would drive a Charger of Chrysler 300 over an Avalon or other Toyota product as well.

I think the UAW did a lot of damage to the US auto makers in that the demands and expenses that they refused to negotiate on hurt GM, Ford and Chrysler, and as a result it was cheaper to keep turning out crap, than it was to engineer world class cars.

Bob Lutz has performed miracles with GM, the Solstice was a start although only a niche player, but the Cadillac CTS is a great car. I think the Pontiac G8 is a great car as well, and a heck of a lot more fun than ANY Camry or Accord to drive.

But people still need to give US makes a chance again to really make the tides change.
— Agent00J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 12:58:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

I would prefer to buy American in the form of a CTS or Buick Lucerne but my fussy wife wants a small SUV and the Saturn VUE does not cut it. It now looks like the turbo model 2009 Subaru Forester Limited is at the top of our shopping list. My wife thinks it's a small SUV and I think it's a tall station wagon but I like station wagons anyway.
— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 5:02:50 PM | | Votes: 2

"Personally, I would drive the Malibu over a Camry any day of the week. I would drive a Charger of Chrysler 300 over an Avalon or other Toyota product as well."

I agree, I would also take a CTS over a TL, RL or GS350.

Your post is spot on.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 6:27:33 PM | | Votes: 0

CTS is def. a step in the right direction. A great vehicle all around.
— kablaam (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 11:31:01 PM | | Votes: 3

oh come on...a charger or 300? please. unless you like the bland, mucho plastico interior, horrendous visibility, and crappy mpg's, i dont see how an avalon isnt as good. except that the avalon is a different car segment than the charge/300. avalon is luxo comfort cruiser, and charge/300 is more of a sports car type.
— lexusrox123 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 1:40:51 PM | | Votes: 0

I drive a American car and I have forever driven Cadillac's never once have I had any problems, All of them have. My Mom has driven Buicks forever same all have been perfect, infact she had a 1991 Buick Lesabre that is still running a friend of the family bought it and it has 263,000 miles on it now. I know the American's need to atleast be open minded for the American auto makers we need to support our countrys economy and when they are building great cars why not!

— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 2:22:49 PM | | Votes: 1

Just bought a Jeep GC SRT-8 instead of a X5. Had an X5 in 2001 and was impressed with the handles. Gave the V8 X5 a chance but its not worth $70k. The $45k Jeep is all over it performance wise. X5 has a slightly better interior. Looks are subjective.

The SRT8 Jeep GC gets to 60 in 5 - in the words on Jay-Z, "what more can I say!"
— vman1013 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 11:32:39 PM | | Votes: 1

While I agree, the SRT8 does pack a punch(performance wise).... fit and finish in comparison to an X5 of all vehicles is no contest.

Performance(straight line) aside, they are in different leagues.
— kablaam (View Profile)

Posted on 5/3/2008 1:51:06 AM | | Votes: 1

Absolutely not.
— Batman219 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:01:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Why? Afraid to take a plunge and invest in American?
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:11:56 PM | | Votes: -2

And what exactly would the return on that "Investment" be?
— sold2early (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:22:57 PM | | Votes: 0

Not afraid, just being smart. American car companies are in dire straits. Rising health care costs, outsourcing, laws which are counterproductive such as paid family leave and proposals for paid maternity leaves, the weak dollar, etc. are crushing American companies.

The result is that they are falling back competitively. For years, American car companies have cruised by on the wave of patriotism. But as the nuclear family gets further broken down a mercenary mentality gets rooted among the population and a natural result is that patriotism diminishes. Now the inadequacies of American cars become glaring and they can't rely on patriotism to save the day.

In theory this should force American car companies to produce a more competitive product but so far the result has been mediocre. I can't blame them given the poor hand they are dealt from the factors mentioned above and I don't see them ever surpassing foreign car companies unless they drastic measures are taken such as relocating operations entirely overseas.

American cars I'll pass on with the exception of the Corvette.
— Batman219 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:44:04 PM | | Votes: -2

Batman, have you been living in a cave for the last ~5-10 years?
— Shredmo (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:50:21 PM | | Votes: 3

Batman is right. The problem is that the labor costs of the American companies are $1500-$2000 more per car, on average, compared to their non-union import competition (Higher wages and more man-hours per car)

Therefore, American companies have no choice but to use cheaper components, cheaper interior materials, and less accurate manufacturing tolerances.

I believe our engineers are the best in the world, but unfortunately they have their hands tied because they don't have the same cost constraints as the import guys.
— sold2early (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:08:30 PM | | Votes: -3

Understanding this question is partially why I am here. I read up on all sorts of news to keep my eye on the industry as a whole.

5 years ago he would have been correct on all of this.

He is currently right regarding labor costs, but it is a matter of opinion regarding the rest. American cars ARE coming along now. Batman mentions he'd consider a Corvette. Would he buy a Tundra, Altima or Outback? That'll answer the question.

BTW, I own both American and Japanese cars.

— Shredmo (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:29:30 PM | | Votes: 10

sold2early - hopefully you don't think of a car a an investment? If so you need a financial planner..
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 3:08:56 PM | | Votes: 5

Agent009,
Cars are investments. Some are much worse than others. I'd prefer to purchase a car with better resale value if possible. I realize this is more important to some than others, often depends on financial situation.
— Shredmo (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 3:17:49 PM | | Votes: 3

Batman, you are living in the past. American cars, specially GM cars, are of excellent quality these days and current technology like direct injection is everywhere. GM is coming out with wonderful new diesel engines over the next year or two. I just hope we can kill off those el cheapo transversely mounted V6 engines and cheap AWD systems that leave you stranded when 2 wheels on the same side are on glare ice.
— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 5:07:49 PM | | Votes: 2

Agent09

"hopefully you don't think of a car a an investment? If so you need a financial planner.."

Please reavaluate that statement. My Janus Mutual Fun plunged 88 percent 4 years ago, Where as my friend who bought a rare 60 something mustang, seen his investment more than quadrupple in the last 6 years. So who really needs a financial planner??
— CommonSense01 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 8:36:57 PM | | Votes: 4

009, you're the one suggested we "invest in American". You obviously didn't understand my sarcasm.
— sold2early (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 9:29:31 PM | | Votes: 3

009 is far away from understanding anything financially related. So, don't waste your time.
— vladyxa (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 10:39:55 AM | | Votes: 2

unless youre bill gates, a car IS an investment!
— lexusrox123 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 1:43:15 PM | | Votes: 0

Of course I would, if it met my needs. There have been quite a few good products lately from US based manufacturers.
— _43LE (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:01:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10

Amend!
— hatepusss (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:07:48 PM | | Votes: 1

I'm usually not the one who corrects another person's word usage on a message board but c'mon... "Amend?"

Really?

That extra little letter makes a big difference.
— ryskt (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:05:44 PM | | Votes: 5

In reading my comment, I left out 1 quick thought...

I don't think the issue is so much buying an American car, but rather getting the public to take that initial step and give the American car a chance. The problem is that American cars are used as rentals, and they aren't making good impressions with last generation Mailbus (Classic) and older Impalas, and even worse the Taurus. As recently as last year I was "stuck" with an American car for a rental for several days, and that experience alone is enough to create a major setback for US car makers. Driving one of these doesn't inspire a person to want to pursue a US car maker.
— Agent00J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:02:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Re your comment about Taurus -- I never did figure out why Ford decided to revive that reviled name.
— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 5:09:28 PM | | Votes: 2

Obviously you weren't alive in the late 1980s.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 6:29:39 PM | | Votes: -1

Enn was alive then...trust me.
— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 8:22:28 PM | | Votes: 2

i recall driving a chevy econocrapbox a few years ago. with less than 20k miles on the clock, there was a tranny/drivtrain whine. constantly. at all speeds.

since i was in a hurry to take a friend to an airport 360 miles away, rather than take it back and swap the car, i thot i'd 'help' it to an early end and put it out of its misery! by driving it HARD! it was "only a rental" anyway. ( i wonder how many other rentals get similarly abused, further deteriorating the image of domestics with the public.)
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 7:32:10 AM | | Votes: 3

of course, TUFF cars can take abuse and come back smiling.

my accountant brother has a friend in the car rental business. he loads up on corollas, and does a booming business with minimal downtime.
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 7:38:15 AM | | Votes: 1

do you think a camry would inspire the Japanese Auto industry, I just do not get how the camry would, what about the accord it is plain and boring, what inspiration is there, I have to say I would buy a Malibu or a G6 over those boring cars.

Support America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 2:40:13 PM | | Votes: 1

I wouldn't go as far as getting a G6 but the MAlibu is certainly worth a look. So is the CTS. Some domestics can be pretty trouble free but interior quality and such were utter garbage until GM's recent rennaissance. You couldn't give me a caddilac until the new CTS and STS came out. they changed my mind. Cadillacs of before were nowhere near their competition. FWD, horribly cheap interior, poor fit and finish, cheap things falling apart, terrible exectronics. ETC. I am still amazed at how quickly cadillac has turned itself around. Cadillac was the worst luxury car you could get and now look at how well they are doing. This is proof that America can do it and can do better than the Japanese of they wanted to. It's sad that it took all of this for America to come around. If they really cared they wqouldn't have made all of that cheap trash from the 70'-early 2000's. but the figured our patriotism would save them, and yes quite a few of us were ignorant buying trash and being in denial that the Toyotas and hondas were better when in fact all you had to do was ope your eyes and see then inferior quality of our cars. Our problem is we don't build or design our cars with the pride and mentality that the Japs did. Why do you think Toyotas rep is going down now? because we are building then here in America now, so the same standards and tolerances are no longer there. they are suffering from careless assembly ETC. Would I buy American, no, they don't build anything in the same market that I like. There are too many better products out there in that category, however If I were shopping for a midsize family sedan, Malibu and Aura would be one of the tops on my list.
— 85bmw745i (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2008 2:43:35 PM | | Votes: 0

i would buy one
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:16:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Maybe because I have a genuine concern for the economy that affects my lifestyle the most...which happens to be American. Maybe it's because I sick and tired of seeing jobs being appropriated overseas. Maybe because I'm not like the other lemmings that play follow the leader and buy the same car that Jack and Jill wants to buy because they are import snobs. Maybe its because I really believe the quality has improved to a level that makes buying an American car attractive again...or...last but not least...its my frigin money and I'll do what I want with it...when I want!
— Need4Speed (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:18:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

I don't think the desire to drive American is as much an economic issue as it was 20 years ago. Most car makers have factories here in the USA that employ US workers and support US business.

Build a world class car, build it consistently across the full model range, and you end up being a major player against the Germans and Japanese.
— Agent00J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:24:02 PM | | Votes: 1

The list of American cars I've had (and their problems):
1982 Dodge Charger 2.2 (good car, good economy, horrid steering wheel, electrics went out several times);
1982 Camaro Z-28 w/Cross Fire Injection (blew black smoke from tailpipes, engine misfire could not be traced, car would shut off without warning and could not be traced)
1996 Chrysler Cirrus LXI (beautiful, but air conditioning went out, brakes gone at 15K miles, electrics went bad at 30k miles, hole developed in flex pipe, window regulators went bad, transmission leak)
1998 Cadillac Catera (OMG -- too much stuff to name. Transmission went bad, cooling system went bad, dashboard lights went out, air conditioning went out... more more more).
My imports:
1973 Datsun 240Z (used oil at rate of 1 qt per 1K miles)
1986 VW GTI (no problems in 132K miles; one tough son-of-a-witch)
1988 Honda Civic (ignition relay recall)
1999 Nissan Maxima (replace parking brake cable, other than that, no problems in 147K miles; ex-wife still drives it)
2001 VW GTI turbo (Window regulators replaced under warranty, spark plugs replaced under warranty)
2005 BMW 325i (no problems knock on wood).

But I'd love to get a Corvette or a new Camaro. With the gestation time of the Camaro, that car BETTER NOT have any problems!
— gooch (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:21:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Cars I have owned.

1981 Buick Regal changed oil, Battery, 3sets brake pads sold at 103,000 miles.

1985 Buick Regal changed oil, brake pads 2 times, altenator under warrenty traded at 68,000 miles

1989 Buick skylark oil changes, brake pads twice traded at 85,000 miles

pontiac 1994 Grand Am oil changes, brake pads, power window relays 2 times under warrenty sold at 106,000 miles.

Cadillac STS 1992, oil changes, brake pads, i had a accident with it, after the accident it had a transmission leak they fixed the leak, no problems after that. Oh by the way, I bought it for $17,000 with 22,000 miles on it and traded it at 95,000 miles and got 18,000 on the trade not a bad investment!

2003 Cadillac CTS. I only changed the oil. Not one issue at all. Traded it at 67,000

2004 Cadillac Esclade I only changed the oil about 4 times. and filled the gas tank alot since I drive many miles for business the only reason for trading it was the gas and prices of gas I traded it at 78,000 miles

2005 Cadillac STS, I still own it Great car changed the oil twice it has 38,000 miles on it.

2008 Cadillac CTS has 9,000 miles on it Great Great Great car nothing done to it not even a oil change.

My ex wife had a BMW 325i in the shop with visor for sunroof off track less than 1000 miles, under 2,000 miles it died on the freeway a computer problem which needed replaced had to be towed. 5,000 miles in the shop again for the radio display went bad, 2 months after that went in again for the sunroof visor came off the track agian and the radio display went bad again service advisor said must move the visor very gentle since they come off the track easily. 15,000 miles oil change plus computer ship went bad that controled the suspension had to be towed part back ordered for 2 weeks since Bmw won't recall their cars like the Americans do Qoute from the service adivsor, my quote to him was so since you do not recall a problem that is a issue, you are going to make me waite for 2 weeks and not have our car? he said yes.
my wife at the time wanted to trade it after 20,000 miles could not to upside down bad investment. So we had a friend take over the payments which our friend had to put cv boots, the cams went bad, replaced the tires 3 times and radio display went bad another 2 times and finally the car went away at 65,000 miles and 3 years went by lucky it was a lease.

During my ex wife bought a Lexus suv. at 2200 miles a computer chip went bad, had to be towed again was told Lexus wont recall there cars like the americans do, so had to waite this time for part and it took 3 weeks, 6,000 miles the power driver window went bad had to be replaced, about 11,000 miles the seat came loose and power seat did'nt work, needed replaced. She traded it at that point and went back to what she had before these 2 forien cars and bought a Ford Expedition which she had before the BMW and never once had any issues with the Ford.

My experience has been Great with Amer
— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 3:47:59 PM | | Votes: 1

I'd buy one. If the car fit my needs and offered the best bang for the buck, sure.
— Shredmo (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:23:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

I was at the Atlanta autoshow recently and saw the 2008 Chevy Malibu and I was really impressed. I would have no problem trading in my current Honda Accord for the malibu.
— richard112360 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:23:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

I'd buy an america that fits my needs. Believe or not, a Dodge Journey or Ford Flex might be in my future due to my family needs. I rather be unique and not have a highlander, honda pilot that everyone else drives.

— speedmaster (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:28:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Go for the Flex. Chrysler still makes low-grade POS products, but GM and Ford are definitely improving; the Ford Flex might be their most interesting, stylish mainstream vehicle in years.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 6:30:54 PM | | Votes: -1

Absolutely I would; it's those damn overrated jap cars I'd never drive. If I needed a family car, I'd have a tough time deciding between the Fusion and Malibu, while the camcord wouldn't even get a consideration. If I wanted a sports sedan, the CTS would be my second choice, behind the 335i, but again, the g and is wouldn't cross my mind. And I wanted an all-out sports car, I'd head for a 'Vette showroom and know that even if I lose a 0-60 to a gtr, at least I'm not driving something god-awful hideous.

Bottom line, I see nothing wrong with american cars these days. They're making a concentrated effort to improve every aspect, while the japs are just throwing theirs together and selling on name.
— tattedtwice (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:29:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

the fusion is based on the 6, are you gonna call that overrated crap?
— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 3:22:01 PM | | Votes: 4

"And I wanted an all-out sports car, I'd head for a 'Vette showroom and know that even if I lose a 0-60 to a gtr, at least I'm not driving something god-awful hideous."

You're right... you'd be driving a mid-life crisis with wheels.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 6:31:59 PM | | Votes: 3

get the vette before you hit 40!! Its worth it! After 40 it a bad idea.
— vman1013 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 11:37:37 PM | | Votes: 1

Like the Toyota Tundra!
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:19:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

the tundra IS made in america. but it is a SUPERIOR vehicle. with the BEST 5.7 truck engine ever made.
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 7:56:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

How can you say that the American car is inferior? Have you driven any of the new ones? and when was the last time you owned one?

to gooch, do not be fooled the American Auto industry is a big portion of our econimics, if the big 3 went under it would be devastating to our country. Also when you say that other forein cars are made here then what makes them better? when we are making them?

This is to lexusrox123 I am not Bill Gates either and that is why I buy American cars I do not have problems with them and trade in value has always been great example my 2003 Cadillac CTS I had about 70,000 miles on it when I traded it in and I got 17,000 for it I bought it brand new for 32,000. which is great trade in value. In every car maker out there they have their certain models that may not hold their value has well as the other models because that model maybe their loss leader to bring people in and or their model for the rental market. However you only look at the American autos for not holding their value, well I am hear to tell you they do as well as the forein autos do. Each auto maker has their models that do not hold there value has well as one of their other models, since you are not open minded all you see a American Car that does not hold the value you see all American cars loose their value, and on the other hand you see one model of say Toyota and all hold their value. NOT TRUE. take a closer look.

My Dad's wife just sold her Saturn VUE since they do not need two cars any more they are retired they bought it brand new for about 23,000. and sold it 2 years later for 18,0000. NOT BAD! Take a closer look do not just listen to what you want to hear!

I just want to add the AMERICAN PEOPLE need to stand behind our countrys products and industry or we will hit big econimic problems. We allready rely to much on forein products and that is going to bite us if we do not start now!

Just look at Gas prices!!! we are to reliant on forein oil and look at what we are facing now 4 to 5.00 a gallon.

Buy American or at least give our American companys a shot, or in years to come we wont even have a choice.
— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 4:31:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

ChicaneShooter,

The Toyota 5.7 is down on power compared to the GM 6.2 (which is physically smaller and lighter). It gets worse gas mileage than the GM 5.3.

So what makes it better than those engines?
— 91z4me (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2008 2:05:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

si.
— johannas (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:45:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Veo lo que hiciste ahí.

Subtle.
— ryskt (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:11:28 PM | | Votes: -1

claro que no.
— Agent004 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 3:24:01 PM | | Votes: -2

El speako Englisho!
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 11:35:52 PM | | Votes: 0

lol! (laffo outo loudissimo!)
— lexusrox123 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 1:46:19 PM | | Votes: 0

The US car companies have done SOOOOO much damage to consumers over the last 30 years.

Building pure CRAP and trying to FOOL people.

You don't do that for that long and have customers want to run back and get jammed again.

And the scary thing, is when I go to auto shows and talk to their employees, is the fact that A LOT STILL don't think there is or was ever a problem!!!!!!

The new stuff they're building is pretty darn good and in SOME cases better than the imports but they won't get the love back for a looooong time, if ever.

And they only have themselves to blame.

Not a big Michael Moore fan but Roger and Me was DEAD on.

001
— Agent001 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:55:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

Very well put 001.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:20:56 PM | | Votes: 1

Look who's kissing whose butt.
— _43LE (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 4:06:23 PM | | Votes: 3

The damage was done in the past due to a totally shortsighted corporate culture that rewarded executives for short term gain instead of avoidance of long-term pain. The unions did not help either and priced themselves and their employers out of the market.
— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 5:17:06 PM | | Votes: 4

Very well put, EnnNorak.
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 7:08:03 PM | | Votes: 0

Agent001 you are fooling yourself to think the American have been building crap for 30years! the decade that yes the american auto was not has good was in the 80's and GM started to make all their cars alike, boy are you fooled look at what toyota is doing with the lexus you can barely tell the two cars apart they look so much alike infact Lexus has only 4 drive trains which fits Lexus.

Lexus suv rx 300 or what ever the name is all it is, is a Toyota RAV-4 same platform. The Lexus larger suv you can not even tell it apart from the Toyota land cruizer. SO WHO IS GETTING FOOLED!!!!

WHOS FOOLED? AGENT001 YOU ARE FOOLED if The American Autos are so bad why is the Cadillac CTS motor trend, and car and drivers car of the year? Why is the Buick Lesabre been ranked for years now, has one of the highest RANKED for quality by jd power and assicaites, AND now the Lacrosse has been ranked the best car for quality (some crap) if for the last 30 years, why do you still see those american pieces of crap DRIVING still on the road? if they where such crap they should be in the bone yard (BUT yet they are on the road still and many of them are now more vaulable then they where when they where new)

I own a Classic Cadillac Eldorado Conv. that sold for maybe 13,000 new and I could now sell it for 35,000 to 50,000. WOW SOME PIECE OF CRAP! who's the fool!!!

Dont be fooled by that forein autos are made here, only some and the reason is so they do not have to pay anything to our Goverment, and do not be fooled the money goes back to there country, not ours. And do not be fooled that if the big 3 went under we the people of our country would experience financial problems.

— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 5:07:14 PM | | Votes: 1

The RX is based on the highlander which is based on the camry. Secondly We did build crap for a long time. i work as a mechanic so I can tell you GM is the worst. Cadillacs drive like a wet sponge and like other GM cars they a re the biggest pain in hte ass to work on. they don't think about to poor bastard who has to repair it. Try doing an ontake manifold gasket on a 3100 v6. 8.5 hr job. know how long it takes to do one on a camry of the same generation? less than halfo of that. on the malibu/cutlass etc. you have to remove the uper intake plenum, power steering pump, alternator, idler/tensioner pulleys, valve covers, rocker arms, valve springs, push rods and alot of other crap since the pushrods go throught the gasket and the bolts are all covered by crap. I agree america is building much better cars and are worth a look now. I have had 2 e46 3 series and have had no trouble. Matter of fact none of my BMW's have been troublesome and neither has the Toyota celica I had.
— 85bmw745i (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2008 2:57:28 PM | | Votes: 0

Yes I would, GM had a lot of new and exciting cars coming out, and I'm not even a GM guy.
— KillBot (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 1:57:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

About 3 years ago, I would have said no. But now they have really nice products, such as the Tahoe, CTS, Malibu (which doesnt come here), Corvette, and other new cars that are improving. So I dont see a reason why I wouldnt, if the car fits my needs.
— M53R (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:03:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

I have one, a Ford Fusion the onlyy problem i have is tht the airbag light keeps coming on but the dealer tested it and everything is working so its jst a spoiled sensor. Its been running for 2 years straight first one on the island and you should have seen the looks everyone gave this car. The Edge is outselling it though.
— jt716 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:07:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I am home, but I still would not buy American.
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:26:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

and jeez, stop making up stuff, youre making yourself look dumb as hell.
— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 3:37:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

he doesn't have to "make" himself look dumb.

he simply IS dumb.
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 7:47:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

The only American cars I like are Corvette, Viper, CTS and G8... Can't really think of anything else. Corvette could possibly be on my list as my next car since I do want a fast 2 seater open top :) Only problem is if I end up liking the new Z4 more...
— SHOWTIME (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:11:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

The only American made vehicle I would buy is a GMC Yukon Denali. That's the only one and gas is so expensive i won't even consider it next time I get a car.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:21:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

No, I would not. As far as I can remember, the big 3's products have always been low quality. The only products they make well are pickup trucks. The Japanese (Toyota and Nissan) are not quite there yet. But when it comes to cars, there's nothing that catches my interest. I know some people may say that I should buy American. I will as soon as they start making better products. As long as I have control over where and how I spend my money, I will not buy American.
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:23:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

So then the question becomes would you even consider giving a chance to an American car? If not, why?

As for me sure I would. If the products fit my needs, as my wife's 08 Escape did, it was as good or better than the competition, and the price was reasonable.
— 91z4me (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 3:09:14 PM | | Votes: 3

91z4me: "So then the question becomes would you even consider giving a chance to an American car? If not, why?"

As I mentioned before, right now there's nothing coming out of the big 3 that catches my eye. And, in my opinion, I don't think the reliability issue with the American cars has improved much. I won't say that it hans't improved. It has. If you compare a 1985 Buick Century with, say a 2007 Chevy Impala, you can tell the Impala looks a lot more solid, and of better quality. However, the imports are still leaps ahead of the American cars. It just seems they are always trying to catch on to the imports but never do so.
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 7:34:25 PM | | Votes: 1

"I won't say that it hans't improved."

I meant to say: "I won't say that it hasn't improved AT ALL."
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 7:37:15 PM | | Votes: 1

you say you don't believe in the holocaust.
— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 3:27:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

evilm: "Everything that is wrong with America has been summed up by 07G35J."

No, that sentence should read: Everything that is wrong with America (in this case, America's auto industry) has been summed up by the following: UAW, GM, FoMoCo, and Chrysler. They brought this on themselves.
As someone mentioned before on this thread, from the 1960's and on, they only worried about short term profits and never thought of the long term consequences. Meanwhile, the Japanese and European brands snuck up on them and offered better products for less.
You can then add the 1970's oil embargo (the American car makers kept selling big block V8's while Honda, Toyota and Nissan (Datsun) outsold them with the Civic, Corolla and 1500, respectively).
The Americans took a little too long to catch on, and the best they could come up with was the Pinto (burn, baby, burn!), Chevette (another oil embargo on wheels) and the Aspen/Volare (need I remind you of how reliable those were?).
Then comes the UAW's greedy bastards demanding more money while the American carmakers were still loosing more market ground to the imports. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that sooner or later the s%#t was going to hit the fan. Something had to give. So far the casualties have been AMC, Oldsmobile, and Plymouth, but I have the feeling that the list will go on.
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 7:26:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

"So far the casualties have been AMC, Oldsmobile, and Plymouth, but I have the feeling that the list will go on."

Actually, the list still goes on. We should also include the hundred thousands of people who have lost their jobs because of the big 3's selfish actions for the last 40 years or so.
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 7:42:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

My first car was a 72 Cutlass Convertible. I loved it. However for the next 20 years I filled my Auto dreams with all German and Italian rides. After I fullfilled my dreams a couple years ago I bought the new Vette. I like its as much as anything. I am extreemly impressed.
I'm not sure if I will give up my German daily driver but open minded. I showed my wife a picture of the new Ford truck coming out that looks like a slammed Rover. It looks really cool and we have kids. I will consider it for her for sure. The quality for American is really stepping up.
— vonbeeler (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:41:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

this is to 07G35J do you think the forein auto makers are saints and not making cars for greed. Oh thats wright they do not have millions of pensions going out the door. (some greed). The big three pay and keep on paying, again some greed!

and if to say you would only buy a Yukon because of gas prices you would not and there are no American cars that are apealing to you, you are one of those people that if there that if you put a infiniti name plate on the new cadillac cts you would love it but because it doesnt, it doesnt interest you. Excuses,

You also should not lump all american cars into one. Look at all the models that are out there and we have many models that are rated very very high,and not every single foriegn model is rank higher than the American auto, infact there are models of american cars that are rated higher than the forein model, oh because the american auto is higher in some models they are building a better car all of them, you are lumping all american cars and saying that they are behind and quality has just come up a bit and all forien autos are far beyond the reach and they just cannot catch up, if that where true there would be no american cars rank high all of them would be at the bottom so why are there many american models rated just has high if not higher than some of the imports.

With your outlook this is what it sounds like you lump all cars into two catagories domestic and import all domestics suck and all imports are great well If I took the way that you looked at it example The Cadillac CTS is MOTOR TREND car of the year and Car and Drivers car of the year, well the imports are just not building that great of car any more and all of them suck and the domestics are great! Look at the models do not look at domestics vs imports and maybe then you will be atleast open to driving a domestic. The American auto industry is not behind we are always the ones that invent new technoligy. My CTS has new tech. that no other auto has, it has its own hard drive for storing music, the pop up navigation has it own memory for atms, banks, resturants, stores, and when I have been low on gas it tells me where the closest gas station is. Onstar was brought out by GM not a import, Cadillac in the 50's had twilight sentinal so headlights turned on by themselves and off like todays cars, the 60's delayed wipers Cadillac came out with, My 76 eldo has where the brights turn on when you are on a dark road and dim when another car is on coming the dome lights stays on in my 76 until I start my car or for 30 seconds. Look at the CTS direct injection I get almost 25 miles to a gallon in the city not bad for a 320 horse power v-6.

And do you remember the Hondas, datsons, and Toyotas in the 70's they where tin cans, not safe, and no performance what maybe 100 horse power, yes they did get good gas milage, that was the only draw. The german autos did not make a great gas milaged car back in the 70's and 80's. infact mercedes came o
— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 6:14:20 PM | | Votes: 1

Yes CTS made car of the year, not because it was the best, one of the main criteria for the award is the significance of the car, and it made one hell of an impact. It proved GM could build a worthy competitor the the Germans and it did. Germans have had direct injection for some time now. And Lincoln had the headlight dimmers in the 60's. I think GM is the one to beat this year as far as domestics, but it's all german or australian GM cars that are so good. The Solstice/Sky=opel GT, the Saturn astra=Opel Astra, Saturn vue, and the epsilon chassis was developed in Germany. To me it's not all about reliability because most cars now days are reliable, it's more about how it drives, built quality engine smmoothness/harshness, steering and brake pedal feedback, how the car handles transitioning from left to right like in a slalom without losing it's composure. Very Few Domestics are even acceptable when it comes to those standards. CTS is one that I say is worthy.
— 85bmw745i (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2008 3:16:32 PM | | Votes: 2

Absolutely.

I have very... precise tastes. The inevitible result of this is that I generally know what I like when I see it, and there is little ambiguity on the subject. I can probably count the cars that I really like, and would drive on my fingers- one of those cars is the CTS.

I think that Cadillac will get much better as well- I am thoroughly excited to see CTS coupe. Although I wish they had produced the Sixteen, as all it took for me to fall in love with that car was to learn that the emblem was crystal and the carpets were silk.
— cdoke (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 2:58:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Like one posting said awhile back . We are supposed to forget what the Japanese did to us 60+ years ago but it seems that alot of people can't forgive Detroit what they did 20 years ago
— toolatetorace (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 3:17:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

duh! 60 = 3 x 20.

and, here in alaska we THANK the japanese for causing the AlCan Hwy to be built. (it been proposed 20+ years earlier, with no results until 1942.)
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 7:54:57 AM | | Votes: 1

No.
— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 3:55:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

I would not really buy an American car over a Japanese or German one, but if I were to get one...

The chevy malibu is quite an attractive offer. excellent interior with moderately-good looks. i thought the rear was ugly from the pictures, but i saw one yesterday and it wasn't bad at all. the cts isn't a bad car either, just not my cup of tea compared to a c-class, 3-series, g37, or IS.
— Monk (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 4:40:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

because i hope that my children will be able to grow up in a great country to yes all i buy is american
— rallyss (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 4:47:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

When your children are born are you moving to Canada?
— 800over (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 12:45:01 PM | | Votes: 1

I have driven German made cars for over twenty years and will stay with the star as long as I can afford it but I have been very interested in buying a Jeep for the family.I would buy an American vehicle.I have no respect for Japanese auto industry and would never invest my hard earned dollars with them.
— simmonsdp (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 5:02:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I like the Jeep, especially the Wrangler which is built like a steel bridge but Chrysler's future is uncertain. I used to drive Audis in the eighties but gave up on Audi because I was plagued with electrical problems. I returned to Audi in 2004 with a 4-year lease on an A6 Quattro. Audis are great now and I recommend them to all but they are too late for me with the Q5 so I will probably buy a 2009 turbo model Subaru Forester Limited.
— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 5:22:35 PM | | Votes: 1

I used to buy Japaneses cars, and still the best car i ever bought was my 99 Maxima. What a great car. Now, I have an 06 CTS and it just continually dissapoints me. Im trying really hard to convince myself American cars arent all that bad.

They are getting better, and will continue to do so. The Malibu is a seriously good looking car, that looks the most appealing out of any midsize car. The new CTS, just screams American style - it may no be the fastest, lightest, best handiling - but its diffrent, something very hard to find in that category. Once Ford get's its global platforms setteled, we are going to see some really hot products from their european design studio.

All is not lost with the American manufacturers, and I have to say even though I have had some problems with my CTS, GM always stood behind and have made real strides to make me happy. So, yes I do plan purchasing the new CTS in 09.
— no1listensanyway (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 5:11:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Look I think everyone makes valid comments here.I assume most people on this site are auto enthusiasts. Because of this many have read and evaluated the changes that have come to American cars in the past 5 yrs. We also know that cars like Toyota now have chinks in their armor when it comes to reliability issues.The other issue thats been mentioned is the health care costs and union pensions etc.These are expenses foreign car makers have not had to deal with while building factories in the US.There has not been an even playing field ever on this score. Yet in spite of this cars like the Malibu,Pontiac G8,Cadillac CTS,Chrysler 300 are still being made.So American cars makers can produce good products in spite of some difficult adversity.So would I buy one.The answer is yes provided the car I was looking for fell into price and size catagory and was deemed a good product that competed with the Japs and the Europeans.The problem is I usually gravatate towards small cars. As of yet because of the extra costs that American car makers must carry on their shoulders they have not yet been able to make a competative product yet. However the new Ford Fiesta (Verve)appears to be in the pipe line so things are looking up. The Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky with some minor fine tuning of the interior and engine are very close to being 2 fine cars.So my point is I would definately consider an American car on my next purchase.
— mini22 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 5:29:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

YES, I would, I went to check out the Pontiac G8, well I know it's not really american, but I would buy that car over a BMW 5 series in a split second. Fit and finish is really nice, the outside is really nice too, it's clean hunder the hood and the trunk. this is a really nice, well put together vehicle. I know if i test drive it I would probably end up buying it, even if sedans are not my cup of tea. Give a wagon !!!
— 1evlaudi (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 5:52:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

If I wanted a mid-size family sedan, I would definitely consider the Chevy Malibu.

If I wanted a full-size, non-luxury SUV, the Chevy Tahoe/GMC Yukon would be on my list.

If I wanted a mid-sized performance sedan, I'd test drive the Cadillac CTS-V.

If I wanted a pickup, I would definitely buy a GMC Sierra Denali.

So, in a sense, yes.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 6:34:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

And the only vehicles I might choose over the ones I mentioned are...

-Nissan Altima/Mazda6

-Toyota Land Cruiser (although it's more expensive)

-BMW M3/M5, Audi RS4/RS6, Merc C63 AMG, Jaguar XF-R

-I wouldn't choose any other pickup but the Sierra Denali.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 6:36:48 PM | | Votes: 0

I drive a Mercury Grand Marquis, I love it. This is a lot of car for under $20,000 and power heated mirrors are standard. It is an extremely reliable car and trouble-free, not requiring any service since my purchase in 2003, and I drive the interstates for sales. The engine provides great performance and acceleration. This engine is very quiet, the transmission shifts smoothly, it gets good gas mileage, about 23 MPG on the highway since it doesn’t have 4 wheel drive. It even has a 5,000 lb towing capacity. This is among the few cars that come with a full size spare tire, and my business colleges love the spacious truck space for their luggage when I pick them up at the airport. The full frame means you can jack the car up from any spot as opposed to searching for some marking on the bottom of a fender.
Even the insurance is cheap on this car due to the triple 5 star crash rating. People don’t know about this car because Ford doesn’t advertise it on TV.
I hear people constantly complaining that crossovers and minivans have inadequate towing capacities, but they refuse to consider Mercury, because it doesn’t give them that status symbol effect.
With young solders dying daily in war, there are more important things in life than a front hood emblem.
Who really needs a world-class car anyways? Drive it into the ground and get a new one every couple of years.
— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 7:41:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

no, never, other cars are so much better engineered than american cars (bmw, mb, porsche, etc..... They don't know how to properly engineer a car unless its a corvette or ford gt, and those aren't even attractive cars. They don't engineer their cars for high speed stability like the germans are used to and have to do because of the autobahn. I'll by something that the americans are great at making, like toys or kitchen appliances.
— brianlamar (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 7:51:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

One car I would avoid is the Chrysler 300.
This car is not very roomy, and is underpowered. I once had to floor the accelerator to get away from a jack-knifing rig on my rear bumper, and the car just would go. I came within seconds of the end.
The transmission bucks wildly and it just doesn’t shift properly. The 3.7Litre engine backfires. So much for the idea of building cars with smaller engines. Less horsepower becomes a dangerous idea on high-speed highways.
Te dashboard is cheap plastic and cardboard. I wanted to mount a switch and a heavy duty PowerPoint for my laptop under the dash. There is nothing but cardboard to drill into. No place to put a screw. What am I supposed to use? Scotch tape? Come Chrysler executives, get off the golf course.
The car is hard to see out of, due to the chopped roof. It is hard to tell where the rear bumper ends when backing up. You can’t see the signal light above the windshield, unless you stop a few yards back from the light.
The battery is buried under the front fender well, down where the road salt splashes all over it. You have to pull the fender to replace the battery. Come on guys, let’s get serious.
— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 7:57:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

I heard an industry analyst describe it like this:

The Europeans have us on Performance.

The Japanese have us on Quality

And The Koreans have us on Price.
— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 8:04:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

no1listensanyway said: “I have an 06 CTS and it just continually disappoints me. I’m trying really hard to convince myself American cars aren’t all that bad.”
You should have considered the Cadillac Seville STS. Instead You bought a model that just came out, which is usually a risky venture for the first few years.
A friend of mine has been buying Seville’s for years now, he loves them. He even bought a second one for his wife. It is a higher performing Sedan as well. It has the Northstar v8 with something like 400hp. This car really goes with 4 people in it.
Buy what’s tried and true, not just what is on the latest TV ad.
There are some bad American Cars. The Chrysler 300 just won’t go when you push the gas pedal. It feels like it is dragging an anchor especially in the hills of Pennsylvania.

— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 8:14:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

"We hear a lot of the past horror stories".

ah, the real reason: past history = future expectations.

Family car history:

from Ford:
- 86 Ford Escort: fell apart: rust, leaks, differential self-destructed @ 50K
- 86(?) Ford Bronco II: fell apart: transmission @ 80K. Interior, since day one, fell apart.
- 97 Ford Contour: fell apart: EVERYTHING conceivable went wrong in this car. what a joke. caught fire with 2nd owner.

from GM (South America):
-84 Opel Ascona C: this one actually only required 4 camshafts in 8 years. Good rate eh? Went to sister. Survived her. Sold @ yr 11, was ok for what it wasn't.
- 87 Opel Ascona: fell apart due to rust @ year 6. Ethanol powered. Chewed 2 camshafts. Rained @ passenger footwell from the factory.

From VW:
-82 VW Fox: survived 10 years in South America, everything was loose in it but it survived a decade of severe abuse. Nough said.

-88 VW Quantum: survived 6 years in South America, lost on a flash flood; found under a bridge. Engine taken out & still running on a farm for ditch drainage.

-97 Golf: Still runs. chews bulbs for bkfst, lunch & dinner.

Honda:
- 1991 Accord EX: 240K miles. Nanny now owns it. Everything works on it. Gulp.

Toyota:
- 2003 4Runner: 125K miles: Everything works on it.
- 2001 Corolla: 230K miles. Everything works on it.

BMW:
- 00 325ci - 118K miles. Everything works on it, except passenger door remote lock. Original clutch shudders from factory. Oh well.

Nissan:
- 1995 Pathfinder SE: Everything works on it. 85K miles. No rust. Nada.

My next car will be a Yamaha XT250.
— cRacKhEaDaLLeY (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 8:20:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

You realize those Opels are German designs right? They have nothing to do with GM North American Models then or now.
— 91z4me (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 12:37:39 PM | | Votes: 2

People are judging American Cars inaccurately, based upon on the cheapest models.
Ford Escort. This model was junk to begin with, and at the very bottom of the price range. I wouldn’t judge Ford on these miser models. The success at Ford is on Models where people are looking for more than just the lowest price. Ford’s success: Mustang, Lincoln Town Car, Lincoln LS. These cars seem to have a loyal following for good reason.
The only thing I can say about the Ford Escort is,” you get what you pay for.”
You can’t sum up the entire American Manufacturing sector based upon the Ford Escort, a car designed as a second car to get you to the corner store for a quart of Milk. It was never designed to give you over 100K miles at that price range.
— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 8:42:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

So when you go into a ford dealership they tell you you have to buy something other than an escort to get quality? BS. When someone buys an inexpensive car they still deserve/expect quality. Just not all the bells and whistles.
— 800over (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 12:50:20 PM | | Votes: 1

I see more and more Ford Edges on the highway these days. People I talk to seem to love them. Maybe this will be another big hit like the Mustang. I can’t wait for the Lincoln MKt to hit the showrooms.
— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 8:58:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Efficient Ideas from Ford
Looks like Ford is taking steps to save us. They are planning to build the 2009 SUVs and trucks with the new 4.4 Liter Turbo Diesel. If they took it a step further and allow people to choose 2-wheel drive and a manual transmission, these vehicles would become even more efficient.

http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied_vehicles/112_0804_lincoln_navigator_diesel_spied

Kirk Kerkorian just bought a huge stake in Ford due to his renewed confidence in the product line. It caused Ford Stock to rise 9%.
Excerpt:
Billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian, making another attempt to shape the U.S. automotive industry, disclosed Monday that he had acquired a 4.7 percent stake in Ford Motor Co.
— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 8:59:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Interestingly, I attempted with an American car in 2005. I couldn't wait to get rid of it!

I think one of the biggest problems with American cars is not some much the fit and finish as it is the long term value retention. Let's face it, bar the Korean cars, American cars that are 5 years old with 60-70K miles are worth next to nothing. Of course there are the specialty cars, but when you compare a 5 year old Taurus to a 5 year old Camry, no one wants to Ford, so it's worth next to nothing.

I experienced the same thing after just three years. Took a huge loss to get rid of the car, and I don't see myself buying another for quite some time.
— GinsterCQ (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 10:30:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

So the actual quality of the vehicle doesn't matter as much as the perception of the vehicle and the resale value (which is based upon public perception).

We should remember that perception takes time to change. Ford has undergone a HUGE leap in quality, running ahead of Toyota. GM has also excelled in quality and with its new high quality interiors in new models should change perception. Chrysler I am still not sure of they just can't seem to keep everything together at once.

I think Toyota's resale value will start falling due to the number of problems that new models have been having.
— 91z4me (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 12:43:08 PM | | Votes: 1

The first three cars I owned - mid to late 80's - were American made. 2 GM and a Ford. My entire family has been in the car business, including one President of Ford and one President of GM. I will never own another American car after the experiences that I had, no matter how good the quality gets. The best of my experiences with those cars were that bad, both in quality of product and of service, compared to the worst experiences that I've had with Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Lexus and Mercedes since.
— ExGC (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 10:36:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

exgc,, it is very odd, that you say you would not buy a American Auto again, even if you knew that the qaulity was proven to be their, that is like saying you would never buy a mercedes again if you got a lemon so what makes a American car any different? You are a American arent you? well I do think you should atleast give your country a chance!!!!!!!!!!!!!
— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2008 5:31:33 PM | | Votes: 1

yes but it would have to be really good
(corvette, corsa, malibu)
— saintdiablosaint (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 10:51:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

no reason to buy a car from American made, when compare the reliability, performance, styling & price between Japan,German even Korea.
— S2000VS911 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/1/2008 11:34:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

I currently own a 2007 Infiniti G35X and it may be the best car I have ever owned. The last 2 "American made" cars I owned, a 2006 Civic and a 2006 Mazda6 were no better than their Big 3 counterparts. Lots of little issues that drove me crazy, just like the Chevys and Fords I have owned in the past. I have owned over 20 cars in the last 30 years, some American and some Japanese, some bought new and some used. The cars that have proven to be the most reliable and satisfying to own were the "Made in Japan" cars: '90 Maxima, '95 300ZX, '00 Miata, '02 4Runner, '03 S2000, '06 S2000 and the '07 G35X top my list. Never owned a German brand car because of the horror stories concerning the electonics that seem to plague the German Big 3. It is a shame the Germans are too proud to sub contract their electronics to the Japanese. They would rule the automotive world because the engineering @ MB, Porsche, BMW and Audi is second to none.
— dano100 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 1:06:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

" I liked Subaru until Toyota sunk their claws into them.

I also yelled when toyota bought subaru. if toyota made a blandmobile under the subaru badge, I'd yell even more. but as far as their partnership goes, I hear of a 22b/celicaGT4 revival which makes me happy.
— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 6:57:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Apart from the Cadillac CTS-V, no.

The only people who buy American cars buy them because either, 1, they can't find a proper car dealership, or 2, they believe that it is great fun to buy a disposable heap of metal.
— nine (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 8:22:25 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Wow, way to judge the majority of the population. No wonder people think BMW owners are snobs. You just proved those perceptions correct.
— 91z4me (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 12:45:33 PM | | Votes: 2

i am NOT agreeing with you, but this statement "...is great fun to buy a disposable heap of metal" made me flash on a great spoof.

wherein, Hitler's honda VFR is totalled, and his minions took the liberty of getting a bmw GS as a replacement. after dismissing bmw owners from his office, he excoriates those who bought that, rather than get him another V4 honda.

he makes scornful references to "farm machinery" and "2 wheeled dumpen truck." towards the end of his LONG RANT, he sez:

"Why didn't you just cut out the middleman altogether, and just buy me A PILE OF RUST!!?"
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2008 6:07:02 AM | | Votes: 1

I have owned many American Cars ALL OF THEM HAVE BEEN GREAT!!!!!!!!!! AND my entire family has owned American cars ALL OF BEEN GREAT!!!!!!
— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2008 5:38:59 PM | | Votes: 1

With almost $70 billion in liabilities for pension and retiree health care alone and Job Bank programs where 12,000 are paid $31 "not" to work, I'm amazed how GM is continuing to survive... they have more paychecks going out people not even working!
— sector (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 2:31:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I bought a Dodge Magnum but it was made in Brampton, Ontario, Canada. I have had it 3 years now and love it I was actually planning on buying a diesel version of this same car when it would have been introduced but Chrysler kill production of the Magnum. Before that I own a Ford that went 245,000 miles so I have no problem buying an American car. I’m now looking forward to the Ford F-150 diesel when it comes out.

I believe some of the problems are the bean counters getting a hold of the car a ruining it. Remember the Aztek that was a car created by a finance committee.

I was in Spain not to long ago, my rental was a Ford Mondeo diesel and all I can say is that car was amazing the amount of detail and quality of the interior was fantastic. If they could bring that car over here with just the right hand change I would buy one. It truly was amazing I talk about the car more than I talk about the trip. I couldn't believe it was a Ford.

The biggest problem that domestics have is the Free Trade import cars from Korea with their 100,000 warranties and packed with options. The unions have also helped bring down the big 3 and the deals the big 3 made with them like retirement with full pay and benefits.

The big 3 are now bigger health care providers than they are car companies.
— wbradd3797 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/2/2008 7:32:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Guys I have to say that people have different priorities and will spend vastly different amounts for what they want

I am very particular about "actual Performance" not just "Straight Line Performance"

I am also very particular about "Fit & Finish" and not at all interested in "Window Dressing"

Earlier this year i had the opportunity to rent an Audi Q7 in Ny and had it for a total of 3.5 weeks, I then went straight into an Infinity FX35.

Then upon my Return i had a Volvo XC70 and then straight into a Cadillac Escalade.

All vehicles were 2008 models with all below 3000 miles when i got them
All were courtesy of Hertz

What i found out was that the Audi Q7 3.6 had a Brilliantly Executed Interior with Excellent Bose Stereo system, Fit & Finish was Best i had seen outside of a Range Rover ( Big One not Sport ) and the vehicle handled like one much smaller & lighter;

The FX35 had a nice enough interior and for the price i think is a very convincing package, good handling but very frisky steering due to super hard suspension.

The Escalade was by far the worst vehicle i have driven this year. Maybe because it looks so good on the outside it sets a high bar of expectation for the inside.

Interior consisted of Cheap Leather and Horrible Plastic, Stereo was a joke and while engine was very powerful and accel was impressive, the handling was suspect and so all that power was useless outside of the straightest of roads.

I thought it might have been me being too hard on the Esc but then i did an airport run to pick up some friends from London and when they saw the vehicle in the Car park they were impressed, then they saw the interior and proceeded to list all the flaws they could find while we were headed to the hotel.

I have noticed the same with the designs of few other american vehicles. A lot of attention paid to the exterior of the vehicle with little or none paid to the interior.

So you end up with Good Looking Vehicles that are just that...... Good Looking.

So no. I think i will keep buying Non American.
— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 5/3/2008 2:27:21 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I think that American vehicles are improving! After the 60s and very early 70s muscle cars era they went down hill! I drive a 2007 civic and for 2007 there was no American car that came close! I am talking about 5 star crash rating and performance and fuel mielage, I think that the saturn Austra might be competition for the civic? Slowly , and I think American cars will have to be a lot better than the competition for a long time to win the worlds hearts back.
— truckmen (View Profile)

Posted on 5/3/2008 2:35:04 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

i've read many BOOKS (not just throwaway magazines) about the background on the car industry, especially in the u.s. and japan.

until FORCED to improve by the japanese, domestic cars PEAKED in quality of build and materials in the mid-1950s. 1955 was a record breaking year for sales, and detroit got into a bad habit of just "cranking out the metal," quantity over quality. they NEVER got beyond that mentality for many decades.

the 1960s and early '70s saw continual declines in quality, but the big motors of the muscle car era made people overlook that. along with the proliferation of power accessories, so you could make you chevy "as luxurious" as a caddy.

then the whole industry was revolutionized by the increased popularity of japanese imports from the 1970s on. contrary to popular opinion, this was NOT DUE TO "ONLY" better fuel efficiency. they had a basic advantage in QUALITY as well.

we can all RIGHTFULLY place the blame on the beancounters. in the domestic industry, all suppliers submitted BIDS to the car companies. who INVARIABLY signed contracts with the lowest bidders. sometimes a supplier would intentionally 'low ball' their bid, JUST to get a contract. later, to staunch the flow of red ink, they'd ask for "adjustments" so they won't go bankrupt and disrupt the flow of parts.

so basically, as long as this practice continued unmodified, american cars were basically ASSEMBLAGES OF THE CHEAPEST PARTS OBTAINABLE. when most of the competition was JUST between the Big 3, no one noticed, because they ALL did business the same way.

but once the better quality of japanese cars started to get noticed, detroit went into a long decline. UNTIL they mended their ways in recent times.

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/3/2008 4:07:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

no one denies Detroit HAS improved considerably. but whether they have TRULY caught up with the japanese remains to be seen.

yes, the "90-day" quality reports are impressive. the cars ARE being screwed together a lot better. but whether or not the quality and DURABILITY of the supplier-provided PARTS match what the japanese use, has yet to be proven. (even cheap parts hold up for at least 90 days.)

the FINAL assessment of whether or not the domestics have TRULY caught up, will take a few more years to out. across nearly all brands, cars get to the 100 problems per 100 vehicles after 5 years, give or take. fords don't get there until 7 years. but both honda and toyota take more than TEN years before having that rate of problems.

EVEN IF, by some magic stroke, the domestics EQUALED the japanese dynamic duo tomorrow, no one will KNOW until at least another 10 years whether equity has truly been achieved or not. (nissan and other japanese brands trail this duo, and WILL be caught up with sooner, barring any radical changes.)

STYLING and engineering of course, are separate issues.
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/3/2008 4:30:00 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

I might buy an American car when hell freezes over.
— BlackLight (View Profile)

Posted on 5/3/2008 11:32:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

I love the benchmark we use for quality these days. I hear much talk about fit and finish. How do you judge the quality of a piece of plastic that is squirted into an injection mold or plastic screws that can only be used once?
I would think that since plastic is a petroleum based product, the automakers might want to consider building dashboards out of renewable sources like real wood again. Maybe Varnished Mahogany. Problem is, no one has the craftsmanship to work with wood anymore, and the labor would be too intensive for the quick and dirty assembly line of today, as nobody really wants to pay for anything anymore.
— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2008 2:08:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

"...nobody really wants to pay for anything anymore."

THAT is the crux of the matter! it explains the widespread use of cheaper materials by EVERYONE.

the flip side however, is that all of us consumers get A LOT FOR OUR MONEY, regardless of WHAT we buy. (some mgfrs. do give more bang for the buck than others. and there are "premium brands" which DO charge you more, but also give better quality materials.) (but NOT NECESSARILY better quality workmanship; here even Detroit outpaces the Euro brands!)

i find personally, the BEST buys tend to be a step or three above the cheapest models. this applies to nearly EVERYTHING sold, not just autos. upgrades for the relatively little extra price tend to be well worth the price. i 'spose you found that true, getting a Merc vs. a Ford.

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2008 5:51:03 AM | | Votes: 1

I will never buy American Car. Cuz, it's expensive and so wasting my money.prefer buy Toyota Prius than Chevy Aveo Sedan...
— dikarockz (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2008 11:38:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

YOUR STATEMENT YOU WOULD NOT BUY A AMERICAN CAR BECAUSE OF THE FAT, LAZY, OVER PAID AMERICAN WORKER!!!! IS A SLAP IN THE FACE TO YOUR FELLOW AMERICAN.

WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU????????

ALSO SINCE WHEN DID THE IMPORTS BECOME NON-PROFIT??? AND WHEN DID THE IMPORT AUTO WORKERS START WORKING FOR FREE????

ODD, I ALSO HAVE HEARD THAT SO MANY IMPORTS ARE MADE HERE IN THE GOOD OLD USA!!!!!

SO YOU MAY NOT WANT TO BUY A IMPORT EITHER SINCE IT MAY BE BUILT BY ONE OF THOSE FAT, LAZY, OVER PAID AMERICAN WORKERS THAT CANNOT WELD 2 PIECES OF MEDAL TOGETHER!!!!

— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2008 6:09:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

It isn’t the American Car workers, it is unions in general. In New York State, government union workers get free face lifts and breast augmentation as part of their government healthcare, which is why we pay $3,000 and $4,000 in sales tax on top of the price of a car.
I think most Americans are just angry and jealous about workers who still have health insurance as more and more employers are not offering Health insurance anymore.
Face it, we are becoming more and more like a 3rd world nation. Instead of raising the bar, we decide to cut costs, and chip away at the American livelihood.
If we believe that building cars is not worthy, let’s just pull the rip cord now, and dump the entire industry. This is why there are no more American made radios or Televisions anymore. The car industry is next in line along with the next target, White collar jobs.
We reap what we sow.
— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2008 10:05:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

amazinBimmer - buy a car from fat lazy overpaid american workers? these idiots make 100K and cant weld two piecees of tin together..
It isn’t the production worker. It is the team of engineers that decide to use a nylon fastener instead of a weld joint to reduce cost.
The production workers have little say in quality anymore; they just follow orders and work like robots. Monkey see, monkey do.
— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2008 10:10:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

...

— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/14/2008 8:40:37 PM | | Votes: 1

the CURRENT generation of american workers are not to blame. the foreign companies with plants here seem to be satisfied with their work. (as they are with mexican and canadian workers as well.)

the domestic industry is handicapped by PREVIOUS generations of workers, AND the greedy unions who still extort huge legacy costs.

it is true however, that many consumers need feel NO LOYALTY to workers who have health, pension, and other benefits far better than what they have.

WHY should middle- and lower-class consumers be expected to subsidize workers' benefits which they themselves do not have?
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/14/2008 8:48:02 PM | | Votes: 1

The only item on the Mercury Grand marquis, that I consider low quality, is the power windows.
Years ago, Ford decided to get rid of the flawless solid steel widow regulators inside the doors. They did this to save cost and reduce weight due to the government CAFÉ standards.
Ford instead, adopted a design from VW, that uses cheap bicycle cables and nylon pulleys to lift the window. The system works great for about 300 rollups, then self destructs due to fatigue. The bigger heaver design was far superior. I think Ford should have pursuit 8-speed transmissions to meet the CAFÉ standards instead of this cheap and dirty trick. I would imagine that the foreign producers use a similar method. This decision at Ford was made by engineers, not line workers.
Other than this, the overall quality of the car is good enough for me, I have no other complaints.
— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2008 10:24:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

NO,they r thirsty>
— hao420 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2008 2:02:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

YOUR STATEMENT YOU WOULD NOT BUY A AMERICAN CAR BECAUSE OF THE FAT, LAZY, OVER PAID AMERICAN WORKER!!!! IS A SLAP IN THE FACE TO YOUR FELLOW AMERICAN.

WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU????????

ALSO SINCE WHEN DID THE IMPORTS BECOME NON-PROFIT??? AND WHEN DID THE IMPORT AUTO WORKERS START WORKING FOR FREE????

ODD, I ALSO HAVE HEARD THAT SO MANY IMPORTS ARE MADE HERE IN THE GOOD OLD USA!!!!!

SO YOU MAY NOT WANT TO BUY A IMPORT EITHER SINCE IT MAY BE BUILT BY ONE OF THOSE FAT, LAZY, OVER PAID AMERICAN WORKERS THAT CANNOT WELD 2 PIECES OF MEDAL TOGETHER!!!!
— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2008 6:14:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

see my post abour 10 inches up. the blame falls not on workers, but management and unions.

AND the detroit beancounter culture, which ALWAYS buys the CHEAPEST PARTS they can find.
— ChicaneShooter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/14/2008 8:53:28 PM | | Votes: 1

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