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Shell-shocked GM retirees react: 'This is a knife stab in the back'

Agent00J submitted on 07/16/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 8:36 AM
from: www.freep.com

[55] user comments | category: Misc News

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Shell-shocked GM retirees react: 'This is a knife stab in the back'

After years of getting generous coverage, retirees from salaried jobs at General Motors Corp. reacted angrily Tuesday to the announcement that GM was ending their health benefits.

"I'm disappointed in the lifetime promise GM made to us," said John Fleming, 67, of Rochester Hills, a retired information system auditor. "We've been wiped off the books completely."

Fleming was among the shell-shocked GM retirees wondering about what they'd do next for health care, following the surprise announcement that is part of GM's latest cost-cutting plan.

Effective Jan. 1, GM will end health benefits for 97,400 salaried retirees 65 or older, their spouses and dependents. Retirees will receive an extra $300 a month in their pension checks that could be used to buy health care.

Salaried Chrysler LLC and Ford Motor Corp. retirees had to make similar choices in the past two years, after receiving years of coverage for medical, dental, vision, prescription drug and some rehabilitation services with modest co-pays.

Although half of American employers still offer health benefits to retirees, the trend is to drop retirement health plans for newer workers or freeze coverage for current retirees to save money, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonprofit health research organization.

Now GM retirees also must navigate the confusing world of Medicare -- a health insurance plan some find so bewildering that many settle for costlier plans without doing the research to find cheaper, more comprehensive ones.
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Shredmo - 7/16/2008 10:15:54 AM

+5 Boost

While I feel terrible for these people, At the age of 32, I have been paying for my entire retirement & healthcare, as well as contibuting to my parents and grandparents retirement & healthcare for quite sometime. I'm not complaining, just stating in comparison, it appears that they have/had it easy.

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gooch - 7/16/2008 11:07:34 AM

+2 Boost

While it appears they may have/had it easy, the fact is it was a benefit GM offered, and no one deserves to have the rug pulled from underneath them like that. They put in their time with the company; GM should honor the stipulations these people were promised. I understand the company is in a tight spot, but they have to come up with a better solution than what they've done.

993Turbo - 7/16/2008 11:22:00 AM

+5 Boost

I guess they should just continue to lose money by the billions. Maybe the government will bail GM out. Besides, quite generous to give $300 as opposed to nothing.

damikco - 7/16/2008 4:22:16 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

$300 a month pays for insurance for an entire of family.

bimmerfan25 - 7/17/2008 3:05:20 AM

+2 Boost

yeah, except when you actually need something like a real surgery, they'll tell you to kiss their behinds with your $300 a month.

gooch - 7/16/2008 11:05:30 AM

+1 Boost

GM has gone the same route Uncle Sam's military went -- promise lifetime health benefits then pull the rug from under the retirees when money got tight. I'll bet they haven't reduced the salaries of their high-level executives, who can easily afford health care. What a joke.

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auto001 - 7/16/2008 11:07:02 AM

+4 Boost

How can a company with over 50 billion in health care and retiree pension liability survive in the current economic climate? it can't.

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gooch - 7/16/2008 11:09:20 AM

0 Boost

GM was not making the kinds of investments it should have been to earn the interest to cover these costs. These were issues back in the 1970s, and GM still hasn't fixed them.

993Turbo - 7/16/2008 11:23:16 AM

+1 Boost

I think gooch should write a check to cover the difference.

Shredmo - 7/16/2008 11:35:56 AM

+1 Boost

Gooch, the people who mis-operated the company in the 70's are the ones losing their healthcare today. The true problem, they wrote checks their asses/next of kin could not cash. Not a good strategy it seems.

gooch - 7/16/2008 3:44:02 PM

+1 Boost

The guys writing the checks in the 70s are not the ones who are worried about health care benefits. However, I agree that they're the ones who screwed the pooch. They should have operated with some foresight, plain and simple.

damikco - 7/16/2008 4:26:35 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

you kno nothing about the unions you are only restating what most uninformed pepole say about the uniom. The union has worked hard with GM giving up pay and benefits for the last 8 years.

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carguy68 - 7/16/2008 11:42:56 AM

-1 Boost

Instead of pulling the plug on peoples health plans to save money they should pull the plug on some of the crap they sell, buick,hummer,gmc and saturn.

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Shredmo - 7/16/2008 11:49:14 AM

+5 Boost

^Insightful comment

Yes, because they don't need a source of revenue...(sarcasm)

bimmerfan25 - 7/17/2008 3:10:06 AM

+1 Boost

buick, hummer and gmc is a source of revenue?

but then again, I almsot forgot for a moment that U.S.A. was a normal country, not one where they put corporate profits aheads of lives and well being of their own citizens.

Never mind

85bmw745i - 7/17/2008 8:38:37 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I really see no purpose for GMC whatsoever. they are the same damn truck!!

zorbeeze - 7/17/2008 1:15:11 PM

+1 Boost

"buick, hummer and gmc is a source of revenue?"
It's a source of revenue, yes, but just because it brings in revenue does not mean it brings in profit.

Carguy68, saturn is doing very well lately, with some more marketing they'll get up there.

Fluxx - 7/16/2008 12:11:07 PM

+11 Boost

The way I see it, the "knife in the back" that GM gave them was sharpened by these workers and the UAW. GM's health care was their largest expense, and the workers and union never tired of trying to bleed more out of them. If you don't stop biting the hand that feeds you, the hand stops feeding you. I've heard horror stories from a Detriot buddy about senior workers pulling in six figures for doing nothing more than sitting in the break room for the duration of their shift and were untouchable due to the union. While it does suck for these people, they brought it on themselves.

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mpwr - 7/16/2008 12:16:05 PM

+3 Boost

BOOST...

MANY FRIENDS OF MINE HOW EITHER WORK IN OR HAVE WORKED IN THE INDUSTRY TELL THE SAME STORIES ABOUT THEMSELVES AND THERE CO-WORKERS

gooch - 7/16/2008 3:47:54 PM

+1 Boost

Nicely put. I've heard the same thing. Perhaps lots of the blame does go to the workers and union. I had not thought about how they squeeze the automakers like turnips.

mpwr - 7/16/2008 12:13:16 PM

+3 Boost

FILE UNDER BOO HOO...

GM HAD 50% OF ITS OPERATING REVENUE GOING TO HEALTH CARE. WTF. MAYBE NOW SOME WILL REALIZE THE TRUE PROBLEM BEHIND THIS, EXPENSIVE INEFFICIENT HEALTH CARE

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PlanB - 7/16/2008 12:15:57 PM

+1 Boost

Yes while this is very wrong of GM, it does seem that their past financial decisions (mostly mistakes they're discovering now) have finally caught up with them. And now their retirees are paying for it big time.

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91z4me - 7/16/2008 12:41:23 PM

+4 Boost

Perhaps the workers should be thankful for all the things that GM gave them for DECADES instead of having to take responsibility for their own future.

FWIW GM has paid out over a BILLION dollars over 10 years for retirees.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10lowenstein.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

reply to this comment

09CTSVforMe - 7/16/2008 12:56:40 PM

+3 Boost

Let's see...

Choice A: "Pull the rug out" from retirees

Choice B: Go out of business

Either way, there's no health care ride any longer. Smart choice. Now bust the unions and maybe everyone will build their cars here.

reply to this comment

DexDiamonds - 7/16/2008 1:14:37 PM

-1 Boost

Hey let's boycott GM and not buy any products!!!!

...
Wait we already are doing that.

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mpwr - 7/16/2008 3:32:26 PM

+1 Boost

socialist

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Spectator - 7/16/2008 4:09:51 PM

+4 Boost

...and slowly we see how the medical insurance companies are killing the American Dream. You want to blame someone...blame them. Ever since about 1995 The fee's they charge companies to cover their employees have become absurd. They will say its to cover costs of rising medical claims and lawsuits, however they are really in essence just squeezing the american worker for every dime they can get. Also some of that blame can go to the drug manufactures. There is "making a profit" and then their is
"explotation"...guess which one they are doing.

Can't tell you how wonderful it was to see my insurance cost go up by a factor of 10 overnight...while my coverage went to crap. Nothing like having to beg and plead with an insuance company so that you can recieve life sustaining drugs or see the specialilst you want.

The Airlines as well as the FAA ran into the same problem, over the past few years, that GM (and every other old large organization govt. or private) is running into now. The cost of sustaining your retired workforce (who is now living much longer than they did in the past) is literally eating up most of your operational cost. Norman Mineta (former DOT Secretary) even stated in 2006 that the retired controllers pensions and benefits make up 80% of the Air Traffic Control budget. You can't operate like that. How can you expand your workforce and provide a good product, when the retired force is sucking up all funding.

This is what GM finds itself facing now. Not that that excuses them from this crappy move. One of those 'necessary evils' I guess.

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mpwr - 7/16/2008 4:53:50 PM

+1 Boost

reform health care now, befor its to late

bimmerfan25 - 7/17/2008 3:15:09 AM

+1 Boost

Man I'm so happy I'm from western europe- where common sense and smart people rule. U.S.A. has the most expensive health care system that doesn't treat anyone, yet when someone tries to fix it stupid hillbillies rush limbaugh listeners called them commies or what not.

I'm so happy I don't have to put up with this crap: ))

cktoo - 7/17/2008 9:51:31 PM

+1 Boost

Wow, with your kind of "smarts" bimmerfan, thank god you don't live here. Last time I checked when someone wants the best healthcare treatment they aren't runninig to get into western europe, more like breaking down doors to come to the USA. Most of the problems with our system are BECAUSE of the gov't, not the other way around.

That being said GM is not going to be the last to do this, nor is healthcare the only area that will be hit...say bye bye to your Social Security and don't be surprised in the future if Roth's are actually taxed at retirement, as well. The idiots in Washington trying to "buy" your vote is the real problem, but hey, if you like where you live, great...but please try and lure Obama and McCain over there with you. They'd fit right in...

bimmerfan25 - 7/18/2008 2:50:22 AM

+2 Boost

yeah thank god I don't live in that crap hole USA. run to america for health care? 40,000,000 don't even have health care. tens of millions more won't get it when they need it even though they think they have it.

And ofcourse it is the GOVERNMENT not the health care itself like doctors nurses etc. what do you think I meant?

everyone in the world now knows that the U.S. government straight up S-U-C-K-S

cktoo - 7/18/2008 6:09:40 PM

+1 Boost

Uhm, yes. Despite your ignorance, the US has the best healthcare treatments in the world. Your 40mm number is also BS. Everyone in the US can get healthcare...healthcare insurance is another issue, I would agree.

And the US gov't does suck for the most part, except in areas like saving other's a$$es...uhm, like western europe.

bimmerfan25 - 7/18/2008 8:41:05 PM

+1 Boost

LOL more people die every year in USA because they can't afford the healthcare they need than the 3000 who died on 9/11

and oh, you "saved our a$$es" like 70 years ago. gee you did your part in defeating Hitler. USA would've lost to Germany if they had to fight them one-on-one. Hitler killed himself because the Soviet army marched into Berlin, not U.S. army. But I know you yankees like to gloat about everything.

U.S. government only cares about corporate profits. I'm not even american and I know that in 8 years under Bush EVERYTHING in the economy has gone down, except corporate profits. Republicans don't care about the average hardworking american. They only care about corporate profits. And the problem is all the redneck hillbilly stupid americans are too stupid to see that.

Shredmo - 7/16/2008 5:03:53 PM

+1 Boost

Healthcare costs dropped 40% this year at my place of work. It is all about the health of your staff. Personally, I'll pay what I do now to ensure prompt medical treatment if I have a problem. Open up healthcare and your quality of service (assuming you can get any) will be garbage.

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91z4me - 7/16/2008 6:21:16 PM

0 Boost

Did benefit levels stay the same? My bet is no. Large deductibles, and smaller payments to provider is a yearly trend in the 'healthcare' insurance industry. If you want to see where your healthcare dollars are going, look up the stock of your insurance company over the last decade or so.

Seriously everyone in the US should do this!

Shredmo - 7/17/2008 9:31:41 AM

+1 Boost

Yes, benefits remained the same. Over the past year, our healthier employees used the services less. Part of the increase in healthcare costs are attributed to older as well as less healthy insured individuals. They are the ones over using our health care system. Seems pretty simple to me.

91z4me - 7/16/2008 6:23:15 PM

+1 Boost

If you add in the rocketing increases in malpractice insurance in some specialties (obstetrics) the picture becomes even worse. As a soon to graduate physician I am keeping track of this 'healthcare' insurance nightmare very closely.

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cktoo - 7/18/2008 6:28:45 PM

+1 Boost

You can't completely blame the insurance co's because they are trying to follow the myriad of rules/regulations/etc set up by the wonderful idiots in Washington or your local State capital. The system becomes very inefficient because of this, not to mention, look at any decent sized city and you probably have at least 6 hospitals within a 5 mile radius with about a 15% occupancy. With the overhead of hospitals, there is no way you can sustain this type of system.

My dad has been in the healthcare biz for 20+ years and we rarely agree on anything (i'm right and he's wrong, I mean left - HA), but this probably is the only area where he will agree that the system, set up more and more by the gov't, is going to be destroyed. He actually puts very little blame on the Ins Co (nor the Dr's, nurses, etc)...which is not like your typical left leaning person.

Nevertheless, people need to realize that in a global economy nothing is going to be "guaranteed" anymore, ie. GM et al. You better save early and often for retirment, healthcare, etc. and skip that fancy GI Joe with the kung fu grip.

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Threepoint1415926 - 7/16/2008 8:11:33 PM

+2 Boost

That notion is getting a bit old and is somewhat false. Each providence in Canada administers their own health care program and some are better run than others. In the north for example, there are fewer doctors and fewer hospitals and health facilities. Appointments are booked out because of this but emergency procedures are still prioritized to the top. Family doctors are usually same day service because of the sheer number of them, just like here in the states. In fact, speaking of the states, I've had to book one of my specialists two months out because he was booked up! So, I fail to see the point of your argument in general.

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Rennsport - 7/16/2008 6:43:48 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Why should a company pay for a (retired) person whom is not working anymore. These people serve no benefit to GM, so why are they getting paid in the first place?

reply to this comment

bimmerfan25 - 7/17/2008 3:16:42 AM

-1 Boost

LOL

Did you take a break from running your sweat shop to write that? Nice going darth wader. Problem for U.S. is that the people in charge of that country think like you, that's is why U.S.A. is going down the toilet right now.

zorbeeze - 7/17/2008 1:27:03 PM

+1 Boost

Bimmerfan, explain to me how western european companies treat their retirees better than they do in the US or Canada?
I've met quite a few senior citizens in my life and let me tell you they are treated very well by their past employers.
So tell me bimmerfan, what do these companies in western europe, where you come from, do that is so much better?

bimmerfan25 - 7/17/2008 3:08:10 AM

+1 Boost

Just another reason whey the U.S.A. is a pretty dumb nation. It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that the U.S. system is set up to maximize profits for large corporations, not help the average american.

And I'm still laughing my a$$ off at that IDIOT Bob Lutz. The guy killed the electric EV1 5 years ago and invested huge money into Hummer. Nice going loser.

reply to this comment

MadibaP - 7/17/2008 4:46:52 AM

+1 Boost

Part of the problem is the FDA and the price of malpractice insurance.

If the government ended the law suits that earn lawyers huge payouts, med care cost could drop substantially.

If the FDA were hauled in, the entire earth could get cheaper medicines...

reply to this comment

toolatetorace - 7/17/2008 11:33:46 PM

+1 Boost

.................and if we get all the tens of thousands people that show up at the hospital with no ins. whatsoever to pay their share things would be much better also . The people after WW II did not have to wory about health ins. Everybody that passed through the doors paid their way in some form or another.

huu76 - 7/17/2008 7:32:07 PM

+1 Boost

Wow, generations of hosing GM and putting in half-assed work and now they're upset that GM has no money?

These dolts make it so hard to feel bad for the US auto industry.

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Badkarma - 7/18/2008 8:34:22 PM

+1 Boost

My father worked for GM for 51 years operating a press and putting in 14 hour days working his ass off to help put 5 kids through college. He is current

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Badkarma - 7/18/2008 8:40:22 PM

+1 Boost

worthless computer...... adding to the above statement, he broke his hip last week and GM is already letting him and my mother know that it is Medical and to not expect help from them. This is a joke for this company to promise long working, loyal employees retirement with dignity and then throw them under the bus. $300 a month for health insurance? what a joke, I am self employed (corporation) in So Cal and my monthly nut for health insurance is $800 and I am young and healthy. This is inexcusable.

reply to this comment

Threepoint1415926 - 7/18/2008 9:04:10 PM

0 Boost

My Father had to walk 10 miles to school in the snow, everyday, uphill both directions. In all that walking, he learned an important lesson. Don't rely on anyone else but yourself for your own well being.

Badkarma - 7/18/2008 9:47:31 PM

+1 Boost

While I agree with what you're saying, most of father's generation were sold a bill of goods by a company and believed that if you were loyal to that said company and worked hard for many years, you could retire from the company with full benefits. I mean what's next, GM may just decide to stop paying his pension?
Walking uphill both ways? Kinda sounds like a fun story!

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