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Should You Trust Consumer Reports?

Agent009 submitted on 08/13/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:34 PM
from: www.topspeed.com

[54] user comments | category: New Cars

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Should You Trust Consumer Reports?

Consumer Reports, the publication of Consumer’s Union, has long been accused of a bias toward imported cars, particularly those made by Japanese brand manufacturers, and against anything built by a Detroit automaker. The bias hasn’t changed. Apparently, it’s intentional and institutional.

The current issue of Consumer Reports purports to offer a comparison test of the new Toyota Tundra pick-up truck and the Chevy Silverado, as well as the Dodge Ram and Ford F-150.

So, you’d expect them to get comparable vehicles, wouldn’t you?

Apparently not if you’re the people at Consumer Reports. They pitted the Tundra with the optional 5.7 liter V-8 against the Chevy with the standard 5.3 liter engine, producing 66 hp less than the Tundra. They could have used the 6.0 liter optional Vortec V-9 MAX which is more closely comparable to the optional Toyota engine, but they chose not to.

They also pitted a Tundra with a 4.30 axle ratio against the Silverado with a 3.73 ratio, then gave the Tundra praise for having better acceleration. But the Silverado offers a 4.10 axle ratio as a no charge customer selection. Not only that, but they predicted that Toyota’s Tundra would have an above average frequency of repair rating. The Silverado? Too new to classify.

The Toyota won the test.

Surprise.

It’s sorta like a boxing match were one of the competitors has his hands tied.

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speedmaster - 8/13/2007 2:50:24 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I like this comment the best:

Consumer Reports explanation boils down to saying that they selected trucks that used the powertrains most frequently purchased by consumers.
Then, why do they call it a comparison test?
As John Neff, who broke this story at Autoblog, notes, “Comparison tests, at least to us, are not about comparing what people buy, they’re about advising what people should buy based on an equal comparison.”

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M35MT - 8/14/2007 10:25:33 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Likewise

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bagwell - 8/16/2007 6:59:54 PM

+1 Boost

....uh yeah me too and IMO the TUNDRA kills the Silverado!!!

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pushrod27 - 8/13/2007 3:09:20 PM

+11 Boost

The reliability rating is where they really show their bias. Chevy has been building Silverados for a very long time, and the engines are based on a design that dates back to the 50's. It's venerable and has been proven so over decades. In addition, the Silverados' GMT900 chassis and engines have been on sale in SUV guise (Tahoe, Yukon, Escalade) for over 2 years. All of this, and Consumer reports still rates the Chevy as 'Too New' to make a deduction in regard to reliability.
While Toyota's Tundra is a complete clean-sheet design new from the ground up, with an all-new V8 that has already been recalled for camshaft failures, but it still earns a 'Reccommended' reliability rating. Huh??? There is no way to explain this other than consumer reports is full of it.

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1970toyotamarc - 8/13/2007 3:10:45 PM

-4 Boost

more sour grapes

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S4cabriofoxone - 8/14/2007 3:29:39 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Wow. You can't dump your bias for one minute, can you? READ THE ARTICLE. IT MAKES SENSE.

Agent009 - 8/13/2007 3:12:00 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

CR is for people that WANT to be told what is the best. Kind of a one stop shop.

Lets see. I need an electric razor....check!
How a about a cordless phone.... check!
now a new blender.....check!
and oh yeah!
The second largest purchase for most consumers.. a car!

Seems like that is a bit too simple.

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answer - 8/13/2007 4:38:00 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

That might be true to some extent, but what about all the fanboys here who get in extreme debates over what Consumer Reports does or does not recommend.

I would say they "Want" to be told which is best too.

Ditto to the people waiting for a MotorTrend/Car&Driver comparison test to tell them which particular vehicle is "better."

Agent009 - 8/13/2007 4:00:05 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

the point is you must use multiple sources and clearly define your priorites and above all be realistic about your choices.

If repair costs are your over riding concern you may be foolish to buy a Mercedes with the high cost of maintenance.

If raw acceleration and cornering is you main concern, you may not be well served with a Lexus.

Research is the most importance aspect of the purchase so few actually do it.

I consulted a young lady the other day on a purchase of a pre-owned vehicle for her, she was set on a Mercedes, but when asking her what her priorities were, it was clear a Lexus was a better fit.

She wanted something that would run and could get serviced anywhere. The Mercedes never would have filled her purpose.

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henbmw - 8/13/2007 6:32:07 PM

+2 Boost

Houstin- That is completely false. Answer this: if price is the sole reason to compare two cars, then why are cars lumped into categories at all? The C-class and the Lexus IS ARE compared because they compete against eachother whether their prices are exactly the same or not. The G37 and the 335i are compared despite a 7k-9k price difference, as are the M-B S-class and Lexus LS. The point is that you buy the cars as close as possible in options and then weigh the price as part of your conclusion. Hopefully you understand that.

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henbmw - 8/13/2007 6:32:58 PM

+1 Boost

Suppose to be down a bit...

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izfuney - 8/13/2007 3:45:22 PM

+5 Boost

Agent009 . Consumer Reports is a independent authourity on benchmarking quality, usabilty and suitability. They DONT take any advertising and BUY the cars they test.
No other motorist hack who is busy kissing ass at <insert automakers name here> free lunch buffet while standing in line for the free giveways should have the gumption to ever question it .

In one word, it defines something that this site will never have ... "Credibility"

Amen.

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Will_ - 8/13/2007 3:53:11 PM

+2 Boost

Agreed.

So we're supposed to trust this lil' ol' website in the whole automotive universe to tell us that CR is biased? It all goes fundamentally back to the pure dislike for certain brands that has been emblazoned into people's hearts. Let Toyota win anything and there will always be the clowns that gather on fly-trap sites like these to scream "bias."

henbmw - 8/13/2007 4:02:52 PM

+5 Boost

This site is designed for objective opinions. You are ignorant if you don't take anything you read here with a grain of salt. Consumer Reports, however, as was said is a "independent authourity on benchmarking quality, usabilty and suitability." When people pay memberships for this unquestioned credibility, they assume that every test uses cars of equal or equivalent options. This test is clearly not fair to the domestic car companies.

I am glad to see the 'gold standard' for testing various items under some much needed scrutiny.

Agent009 - 8/13/2007 4:17:24 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

CR has been found guilty in the past of a number of exaggerated concerns, a proven fact.

Yes they take ZERO advertising dollars, but you know what? That puts the pressure back on them even more to sell magazines and subscriptions, Because that is the main source of revenue for them. So if you can't come to the table with something unique from the competition, you will have those few sources of income dwindle and you cease to exist.

CR Must maintain a bit of uniqueness to survive, and unfortunately they have done this in the past be distortion of the facts.

Remember the Suzuki and Chrysler K Car rollover fiascoes of the 80's? All proven to be within the norms for those type vehicles.

How about the more recent sensational failure of baby seats that were bogus less than a year ago?

In 1998, the magazine tested pet food and claimed that Iams dog food was nutritionally deficient. They later retracted the report claiming that there had been "a systemic error" but never correct the error.

In 1996 CR tested motor oils and said there were no material differences in all of the brands tested. However they recommenced Synthetic oils for additional protection even though they couldn't prove they any were better it was better. Why?

The problem is in something as complex as an automobile it is difficult for the experts to agree, much less a company that also tests dog food.

david999 - 8/13/2007 6:12:47 PM

0 Boost

Excellant points houstencutie!

johnct - 8/13/2007 9:35:43 PM

+1 Boost

Here is a link to a $35,500 6.0L Crew Cab 4x4 Chevy. It would have performed significantly better then the one tested . I would have thought a HoustonCutie would have some idea how to spec a truck.
http://www.chevrolet.com/byo/buildSummary.cv;jsessionid=MVYTKXQYGSJJKCQN1ECSCZQKBXMQEIMO?selectedOptions=NHT&fromPage=Option&inValidOptions=&modelDesignator=CK10753&pvc=81029&modifyflag=true&exteriorColor=Black+&colorOptions=41U%5E313%5EA95&styleId=2LT&interiorColorId=313&make=Chevrolet&seatTypeId=A95&model=Silverado&cabSize=Extended+Cab®ularOptions=NHT&modelId=109&wheelBaseId=0&cabSizeId=2&noType=more&exteriorColorId=41U&fPi=4&y=18&boxSizeId=59&x=45&year=2007&driveType=4x4+Drive&interiorColor=Light+Cashmere%2F+Ebony+Custom+Leather-appointed+&subModelId=316&boxSize=Standard+Box&makeId=001&subModel=1500&style=2LT&zip=06074&driveTypeId=61&vehicleModel=%2Fimages%2Fgmbp%2F13001%2Fvehicle%2F2007%2Fmed%2F316_8555.gif

johnct - 8/13/2007 5:57:38 PM

+4 Boost

Just as consumers build up a loyalty towards certain brands, journalist can build up the same bias. Consumer Reports basically admited that they have no statisical information on the the new Tundra but predict it's reliability as good anyway.

Does anyone know how the previous Chevy pickup rated. Also why is the top full size pick up the Avalanche with a good predicted reliability rating. Doesn't that wehicle share more in common with the new 1500 then the previous Tundra does with this new one?

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david999 - 8/13/2007 6:20:30 PM

-2 Boost

Toyota as a company overall produces very reliable autos, that is why a good "predicted reliability" is a reasonable rating.

CR is a respected magazine. If there are errors in their testing, they usually print a
correction. I have no reason to question most of their reviews, especially when it comes to quality and reliability ratings.

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kpaxx - 8/13/2007 6:33:50 PM

+1 Boost

CONSUMER REPORTS IS A JOKE AS LONG AS THEY GET THERE INFORMATION FROM OWNER SURVEYS THEIR STATISTICS WILL BE BASED ON USER OPINION AND NOT FACT. ALSO WITH SUCH A SMALL SAMPLING SIZE I.E. CR SUBSCRIBERS, HOW ARE THEIR STATISTICS RELEVANT.

READ MORE REASONS HERE:

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

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gem069 - 8/13/2007 7:39:39 PM

+1 Boost

I allways use CR as a source of information but not my only source. For example, My mechanics are even better at telling me on their bigger money makers and they are all yanqui vehicles.

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SteedPub - 8/13/2007 7:54:03 PM

+2 Boost

Back in the 1990's when I was selling cars, we avoided the mind numbed Consumer Reports buyers. These were the brainless twits who would come in and waste our time "comparing" our Mazdas and Nissans to the Toyota they were already told to buy in their bible, Consumer Reports.

They were idiots of the fourth dimension, knowing NOTHING about cars other than what they were told by this biased garbage bin known as Consumer Reports. But alas, the publication is there specifically for these unwitting people who think they are smarter than the rest of us, but who aren't confident in their own selves to make decisions. Instead they wear their sheephood on their shoulder by saying to you, "Well I read in Consumer Reports..........." So damn smarter than the rest of the world, but they need a "trusted source" to lead them to salvation.

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SteedPub - 8/15/2007 8:34:46 PM

+2 Boost

Yep I am fake, a robot built to auto-respond to news.

Bmw8ter - 8/13/2007 9:44:25 PM

+1 Boost

The Japanese makes are about the same as American makes....service your car in increments of 5k miles. Actually I think with American cars they still say 3k-4k, but I wouldn't go any higher than about 3,500k in any car, even with synthetic.

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bagwell - 8/16/2007 7:10:17 PM

+1 Boost

BMW8er --- BMW oil chg interval is generally 10K miles

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bagwell - 8/16/2007 7:13:06 PM

+2 Boost

....just as a reference that is, (I know they didn't ask)

MB is 10k as well

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johnct - 8/13/2007 9:21:37 PM

+1 Boost

When all of your suvey results come from subscribers that theoretically get thier purchasing advice from you then aren't going to get unvarnished data.

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toolatetorace - 8/13/2007 11:00:31 PM

+1 Boost

When they test cars and/or trucks , the nameplates should be taped over when the vehicle is introduced to them. That way they won't look like they just got done chewing on a lemon when they sit in a domestic car and having the look on their face whem they just had /looked at a,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well,, you can fill in the rest of this line ,, when they sit in a import

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david989 - 8/14/2007 4:50:20 AM

-1 Boost

Consumer Reports is very good. I like their reviews.

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LexSucks - 8/14/2007 9:33:34 AM

0 Boost

If you prioritize price, fuel mileage and reliability over handling and performance, then Consumer Reports is the magazine for you.

Consumer Reports is a good magazine for Vacumm cleaner and minivan reviews. CS is also good for folks looking at replacing their econobox. Anyone looking for a Luxury car or a performance car would be better served looking at another magazine.

The problem with Consumer Reports is that they prioritize price over everything else. They’ve also been known to give a car the nod because is had better cupholders. LOL!. Handling and performance are secondary over at CS when compared to price, fuel economy, and perceived reliability. CS will rate a car higher because it is cheaper and more reliable. When the truth may be that; the cheaper may be more reliable (1 service visit less per 3 years), but it’s much slower and doesn’t handle no where near as well as the car that the cheaper car beat out.

Whenever I hear someone say, “Consumer reports says”. I know to stay far away from that person. Everyone who I’ve ever talked cars with that relied on CS for information was clueless when it came to car knowledge. CS is the magazine for people who really aren’t into cars (read: non-enthusiast or typical American)

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answer - 8/14/2007 1:24:29 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

So what you are saying is that Consumer Report's opinions are valid on everything else except for cars.

CR measures/rates cars in a certain way, a way that applies to the majority of buyers. What is wrong with that??

If you value things Consumer Reports does not, then you have every right to disagree with their choices in cars, but you can't say that their opinons aren't relavant to the average car buyer.

And you can shove that "typical American" non-sense right up your ass by the way.

LexSucks - 8/16/2007 2:08:41 PM

+1 Boost

CS's opinons are relavant to the average car buyer. And that would be the clueless, non-enthusiast American driver. That's what I was trying to say. It's the enthusiasts that are the minority.

And I'm from America (US Citizen).

dumpsty - 8/14/2007 10:17:45 AM

+3 Boost

My biggest gripe with CR is that they chose not to select most evenly matched vehicles (performance, capability, tow ratings, etc.) that were available. A part of that comparison would be to see the differences in costs if I purchased the Tundra CrewMax 5.7L versus the Silverado/Avalanche 4dr 6.0L. Like seeing a comparo b/t an Accord and Camry. They shouldn't compare a 4-cyl to a 6-cyl model.

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Loki123 - 8/15/2007 11:21:26 AM

+1 Boost

Ok, let's clear this up - I have no clude where some of the above are getting their information but this is what we know:

1.Consumer Reports is an American magazine that's been around for 70 years.
2. CR does not print outside advertising or permit the commercial use of the reviews for selling products.
3. CR does not give only kudos to Japanese manufacturers - look at Isuzu and Suzuki for bad reviews. And historically, CR has given good reviews to American cars such as Ford Taurus, Dodge Intrepid, Dodge Caravan.

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kpaxx - 8/15/2007 1:22:09 PM

0 Boost

So what!

This doesn't mean that their survey is properly designed and data is valid.

answer - 8/16/2007 12:30:46 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Damn you're an idiot.

If you don't like Consumer Reports, you could always just...not read it.

kpaxx - 8/28/2007 3:51:58 PM

+1 Boost

I don't read it.

I am just stating my thoughts on the subject.

I am not the only one who does not like it just like at the truedelta survey.

dodgedart - 8/16/2007 10:03:46 AM

+3 Boost

I look to my neighbors-

To the right, 2004 chevy silverado with 50K miles. Leaking oil from several places. Speedometer does not work. Coolant low message overriding the info display constantly, there is coolant in the res. He is struggling to keep working, make his payments and keep his house. No time to hassle with the dealer and make a deal on repairs.

To the left. 1986 toyota extra cab pickup. 280000 miles, one headgasket replaced 20K miles ago. No BS. Drives every day. Works. Even overloads it with 2000+ lb of stuff with airbag springs.

What did consumer reports say about those trucks when they were new?

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bagwell - 8/16/2007 7:11:35 PM

+1 Boost

sad but VERY TRUE! only american car I'd buy would be a vette, because they're cheap to repair and great bang for the buck!

joeray - 8/20/2007 9:23:03 PM

+2 Boost

CR is and has been bias for decades. It makes one wonder if they are getting paid under the table for writing such bias reports. It sad for companies who have a superior product, only to have it cut down by CR. Some people, especially women, rely heavily on CR to make a decision on who's product to buy. In effect what they are doing is a disservice to the public.

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