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Sport Sedan Showdown: Volkswagen Challenges Acura To A Sumo Sized Smackdown - But Who Comes Out On Top?

Agent00J submitted on 08/09/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 11:37 PM
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[46] user comments | category: Misc News

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Sport Sedan Showdown: Volkswagen Challenges Acura To A Sumo Sized Smackdown - But Who Comes Out On Top?

Although we may fantasy about driving a Porsche or Ferrari on a daily basis, the reality is that most of us have families and responsibilities that require cars that are practical. Car makers know this and go out of their way to accommodate the car fan by trying to spice up entire model ranges with “sport” options including items like bigger rims, tacked on spoilers and other aerodynamic aids. Of course few of us have ever commented on the “sportiness” of a minivan and as such when family duties collide with automotive needs the sports sedan is the car of choice.

There really are two schools of thoughts in this category, one that includes front and all wheel drive options and the other that offers rear and all wheel drive options. Although the rear wheels are the preferred wheels to move a vehicle, the truth is even with the best electronic traction aids; a front wheel drive car still handles inclement weather better than a rear wheel drive car.

Two new cars are set to go on sale for our consumption that fill the sports sedan description – the Acura TL and the Volkswagen Passat CC. Before you comment on how I must be smoking something in comparing the TL with the CC, lets take a look at the spec sheets to realize the fact that these two cars are closer to each other, than they are other cars in this segment.

Both are offered in either front or all wheel drive variations. To get the most powerful motor in either car, you need to go with all wheel drive. With 305 horsepower from a 3.7-liter V6, the TL competes closely with the 3.6-liter V6 putting out 300 horsepower in the CC. If current pricing holds true for both cars, expect prices in the high thirties for both cars.

I know what you are thinking, what about BMW? Trust me when I say this, BMW is not sweating the new TL from Acura. Acura’s are distinctively different cars from BMW’s.

I think the true competition for the TL is from another German power house, Volkswagen. The Passat CC and the forthcoming Audi A4 line up better against the newest TL than any BMW, and with the CC closest in price, I think the competition is clear for Acura.

So if the TL or CC where your only two options in the sport sedan category, which car would you choose. Looking past the “beak” of the TL will get you a car loaded with technology that is sure to be a decent, if not great car to drive, or will the svelte lines and German engineering of the CC compel you to make your driveway its home?

We want to know what you think…

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chewy - 8/10/2008 12:24:20 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

one is a little uglier than the other

reply to this comment

EnnNorak - 8/10/2008 9:00:59 AM

-1 Boost

The Honda is uglier. I recently bought a nicely loaded new Passat to replace my 2004 A6 Quattro whose lease expired. The Audi was a nice machine but my new Passat is has all the Audi amenities as well as a more comfortable ride and seats and considerably more rear legroom.

schinbone - 8/10/2008 1:28:44 AM

+4 Boost

I want the Acura for quality and reliability, and the Passat for what little styling it has, as it is less............unattractive.

reply to this comment

EnnNorak - 8/10/2008 9:03:52 AM

+1 Boost

The only styling flaw the Passat has is the big splash of chrome in the front. Also, I would like VW to put an oldfashioned handle on the trunk to make it easier to close.

FactsRule - 8/10/2008 1:41:54 AM

+2 Boost

VW hands down.

reply to this comment

senorgato - 8/10/2008 2:04:16 AM

+2 Boost

TL. Period.

reply to this comment

dlin - 8/10/2008 2:37:50 AM

+2 Boost

I always think ACURA is very much like AUDI.
Both likes to stick to FWD so to share platform w/ their mother brand for economic reason.
Both rather have AWD than RWD, though ACURA does start to recognize the inevitable RWD trend.
Both have pretty nice interior and somewhat bland exterior.

reply to this comment

EnnNorak - 8/10/2008 9:05:11 AM

-2 Boost

It's the Passat that is now like the Audi -- same platform and many shared parts after all.

steve27t - 8/10/2008 11:02:51 AM

+2 Boost

EnnNorak...

The Passat and A6 share nothing, with the exception in Europe of maybe the 2.0t engine, the platform/chassis is different as is the rest of the car. An owner should be better informed than that.

Heyhuub - 8/10/2008 1:25:22 PM

+3 Boost

The Passat is based in the Golf and shares nothing with the A4/A6 etc

theoptimisticpessimist - 8/10/2008 2:38:22 AM

+2 Boost

Love, I mean love, "beauty and the beak" still ROTFLOL.

reply to this comment

ktu01 - 8/10/2008 4:09:33 AM

+3 Boost

I think VW engineers great cars, but the Passat and Passat CC I feel are more on the luxurious side of things than on the sporty side. The sporty aspirations are left more to Audi. However, I think the CC with all wheel drive is still a solid car and will handle nicely. Stylistically, it looks a bit better than the TL.

The TL on the other hand looks like a "transformer," and I mean that in a bad way. However, as with all Hondas and Acuras, I'm sure the actual build quality and reliability of the car will be great. It'll probably also perform very well in the driving/handling department (awd version).

If it comes with DSG, I'd probably try the Passat CC. But given the high 30s (probably after options, mid 40s) price point, I would much prefer an A4 (09) or 335... though.

reply to this comment

steve27t - 8/10/2008 3:04:46 PM

-1 Boost

"the Passat and Passat CC I feel are more on the luxurious side of things.... The sporty aspirations are left more to Audi"

As a previous owner of 3 Audi A6's, 2 A6 2.7t and one 3.2Q S line I disagree with this statement. I now have a Passat 3.6 4 Motion which to me is a sportier drive than the Audi's were, the suspension is firmer and the handling crisper, plus with 280hp it goes very well. The Passat is based on a stretched and modified Golf chassis (I have a GTI as well)and I can see how this transpires to make the Passat quite a good handling car.

atomicbri - 8/10/2008 8:18:07 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I am definitly thinkin Passat CC on this one! Poor TL! My mother has a TL (current one) and I showed her a pic of this new one and first thing she exclaimed was EWWW and laughed. She wondered what the hell happened to the front? Now she is not a car woman. She likes cars to get her there and have some power for passing... this one she said, why is there a shield on it now? LOL!

No, the VW for me... no questions.

reply to this comment

mpwr - 8/10/2008 8:23:12 AM

+4 Boost

Ive got to pick Acura, someone is going to make an aftermarket grill, right?

reply to this comment

Agent00J - 8/10/2008 9:08:35 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Somebody will make an aftermarket car cover, perhaps you can use that and cut holes for windows.

On second thought, that isn't a half bad idea. Disguise your car and everyone will think you work for a car company and are testing a new prototype that can't be shown yet to the public!

-00J

KZ258 - 8/10/2008 10:51:14 AM

+1 Boost

hey double 0 j, since every buyer of the 08 M3 sedan got royally screwed with the release of the brand new 09 M3 sedan, are you gonna trades yours in?

reply to this comment

JudasLease - 8/10/2008 10:57:35 AM

+2 Boost

10 years ago you could not mention Acura in the same breath as VW.

Today you can as Acura is not really a luxury brand but a lineup for people to move up from Hondas. The new TL seems so ugly, the VW CC wins just on that alone. Both have decent power and the VW will have the better interior. The Acura will have better quality but hell, its built in Ohio.

VW CC for me without much thought.

reply to this comment

cyco - 8/10/2008 10:58:21 AM

+1 Boost

The CC looks better, but it would take some serious convincing for me to buy a VW. I don't have much confidence in them from a dependability and service perspective. It may just be the area I live in, but every single person I know who had a VW here (all have jumped ship at this point) has experienced a lot of issues and run around with the dealers and service. I know every brand has its good and bad dealers, but VW seems to have nothing but bad around here.

I'd have to hold my nose go with the TL if forced to buy either. But I wouldn't be very excited about it.

reply to this comment

stone - 8/10/2008 11:15:34 AM

+2 Boost

I try to stay pretty objective when I post on this site, but Acura has ruined what was a classic design. The 3rd generation TL had a big influence on car designs that came after it, cars costing far more copied cues from the TL. The new one is just ugly from end to end IMO. I would have taken the new larger platform and engines and put them in a mildly restlyed body and really shook up the near luxury segment. It also still uses the same old 5-speed automatic, and the manual tranny is history on the base model.

On the other hand, I like the looks of the Passat CC, the 4-door coupe style is very attractive on this car but I think VW skimped on the drivetrain. From what I have heard, there will be no 7-speed DSG, and no TDI. The interior is also a direct copy of the regular Passat, not a bad thing but if this is your new flagship, and you are going to be asking for over 40K for a fully loaded VR6 4 motion, then you need to differentiate it more. I would have also preferred a rear bench seat that could seat 3 in a pinch.

If I had to pick one, it would be a 4 Motion Passat CC 2.0T with a 6-speed manual FTW. APR mods would probably get me over 300HP at the wheels so I would have a quick, great looking car. I just could not live with the looks of the TL, even though it would be more reliable and more roomy.

Acura TL needs: new grill, new ass, new tranny
Passat CC needs: new interior, DSG, TDI

Stone

reply to this comment

cktoo - 8/10/2008 11:45:09 AM

+3 Boost

Come on Agent 00J. Well, I don't think Acura is "sweating" the new Passat CC or VW for that matter, either. I wouldn't necessarily compare the new TL to a BMW, but certainly wouldn't compare it to a mainstream (not lux or near-lux) VW. Despite everyone's belief that Acura is not Tier 1 (and some validity), Acura is NOT competing against VW. They clearly state who they are competing against, Audi, Infiniti, and yes, BMW. You can think all you want Acura's comp is VW, but it is not.

That being said, from the looks department, I certainly do prefer the Passat because of the awful TL grill and Saturn Aura rear. As others have stated, however, I'm sure the TL will be of higher quality, maintain a much higher resale and have more features. I'll venture to say the TL will also have no trouble handing the Passat it's arse on a plate from a driving standpoint, as well...and that's with an outdated 5 speed auto trans and 10 yr old SOHC engine.

reply to this comment

Star - 8/10/2008 2:01:51 PM

-2 Boost

Wake up! Acura is not a premium brand, is just a regular Honda marketed as premium to the dumb American car buyer. VW is way superior to a lowly brand like Acura/Honda.

steve27t - 8/10/2008 3:11:09 PM

0 Boost

Competiton is a car in the same price bracket. I bought a Passat 3.6 4 motion which was around $40k, so any car that fits my needs around this price is fair game. I was switching from an A6 and a similarly equipped A6 was well over $10k more, a similarly equipped A4 was about the same price, but the car was much smaller and the last of previous generation. Any other car around this price is competition although I did not consider more than 1 or 2 other options.

cktoo - 8/10/2008 3:59:19 PM

+4 Boost

Good point Star, I never thought of it that way. So, I guess Audi's are just overpriced VW's, then? I see. What are you, 15 years old? Good thing you set me straight though, cause I almost bought an A4.

As for steve, so an S2000 is competition for the Passat? They are in the same "price bracket".

Bottom line is Acura is not "worried" or has targeted VW as it's competitor despite what you want to think. Will some cross-shop a Passat with a TL? Sure. Is Acura worried about that? Doubt it. Lost sales to the Passat will maybe range in the 1-2% area, if that. But hey, believe whatever you want.

sector - 8/10/2008 12:02:56 PM

-2 Boost

Passat = Unreliable, ugly version of Honda Accord

TL = Reliable, sporty ride with cutting edge technology that's a head turner

reply to this comment

Star - 8/10/2008 1:56:34 PM

-1 Boost

Passat = what Acura TL wanted to be

Acura TL = oversized Honda tin can

steve27t - 8/10/2008 3:13:19 PM

+4 Boost

Agent 001. Passat = Unreliable, ugly version of Honda Accord

Agent 001. Biased, ignorant, ill-informed hack.

Audiphile - 8/10/2008 1:26:17 PM

+4 Boost

OOj,

The Passat CC is definitely not a "sport sedan". The handling is not up to snuff. (By the way, the Passat's 3.6-liter VR6 is rated at 280 hp, not 300hp.)

Sleek roof or not, VW has wisely decided to leave the entry-level sport sedan market to the Audi A4, and decided to market the CC at the entry-level luxury market - a sort of German Lexus ES 350.

reply to this comment

Agent00J - 8/10/2008 6:53:57 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Based on the information from VW, the output of the 3.6 in the CC as 300 HP. In terms of the CC being a sports sedan, that really is a judgment call. I have driven several Passats and feel that they do offer enough sporting intention to be called a sport sedan when equipped correctly - like a cheaper A4. Any front wheel drive car is by default going to feel less sporting than a comparable rear wheel drive car given the physics involved.

I won't disagree with your assertion of comparing the CC to a German Lexus ES350, but the same could be said of the TL being a Japanese version of the ES.

-00J

DieselRules - 8/13/2008 2:15:40 AM

+1 Boost

AgentOOJ: "I won't disagree with your assertion of comparing the CC to a German Lexus ES350, but the same could be said of the TL being a Japanese version of the ES."

Huh?
You mean the TL being the American version of the ES (which is a Camry built in Japan ... the TL is built in North America, isn't it?)

gooch - 8/14/2008 6:48:15 AM

+1 Boost

And you've driven the CC when?

Star - 8/10/2008 1:54:06 PM

+2 Boost

That maybe in "stupid land". In the real world the Passat is the superior vehicle by far.

reply to this comment

steve27t - 8/10/2008 3:27:12 PM

+1 Boost

MT another ignorant and stupid hack. For over 8 years I have driven Audi/VW vehicles 3 Audis and 3 VW's, plus my business partner has had 3 A4's and a colleague 2 A4's. Not one breakdown. You and others here talk so much BS, you are nothing but ignorant worthless POS.

reply to this comment

atomicbri - 8/11/2008 9:17:04 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Toyotas are unreliable as of late too! DOn't forget it! My friend's mother's Camry ('07) has been the biggest POS she has owned, and this is her 3rd Camry and her last she says. She had a '93, '99 and now this '07 and she has had a transmission fail at 2500 miles and the paint started to fade on the trunk and rear part of the roof at 5200 miles. She is on about 11,000 miles and the dash rattles and the car has a new paint job that is now showing orange peel where they repainted it. She is horrified at the sheer lack of quality in this v6 Camry. She said the dealer service rep told her they are not accustomed to cars with so many issues and he admitted the newest Toyotas have been experiencing quite a bit of problems and they are not used to that, so they do not have the total experience for so many cars coming back to be fixed.

So stop harping on how infallible Toyota's are, because they are not, especially not the current ones!

As for my VW, I have 30K and not one issue. Maybe I am lucky, who knows.... I am tired of people who don't own these cars say they are such crap, then exclaim how excellent another brand is. All companies have quality issues. I think if in 6 years and you don't have to go to the dealer but for maintenance and for maybe 2 issues, you have a good car.

reply to this comment

DieselRules - 8/13/2008 2:22:00 AM

+1 Boost

MT: If VW is so unreliable, why is VW's resale value HIGHER than Toyota's???
Maybe its because VWs last longer, are built stronger, thus are safer, plus they're a lot more fun to drive.
The Myth of Toyota Quality was built-up in the 1980's in comparison to Detroit's junk, not in comparison to European cars.
But only the gullible fell for the PR machine's output.
Too bad you're one of the "great brain-washed" who judge brands by their ads rather than by their cars!

reply to this comment

mpls - 8/10/2008 5:21:06 PM

-2 Boost

Beauty ?? You meah ike the VWs that recylcle old Toyota designs and updates it., cos in my mimd VWs look like Toyotas were a few years back..

reply to this comment

mercuryguy - 8/11/2008 4:15:47 AM

+1 Boost

The Passat was the absolute star of the Detroit Auto Show this year. The Diesel Passat will be even better and puts VW way ahead of the game. VWs have the added benefit of a history of manual gearboxs which makes this car well positioned for an Energy challenged Planet and a car that desn't sacrifice looks or braun to be efficient.

The only thing that may hurt this car is the High Euro to the American dollar. VW will have to build them in the US or this car will get expensive quick for a cash-strapped American market mired in recession.

reply to this comment

DieselRules - 8/13/2008 2:24:15 AM

+1 Boost

This is mentioned as one of the models to be built in the new US plant.

Whelan - 8/11/2008 11:26:20 AM

+2 Boost

VW challenges Acura??? Again more proof that VW is out of it's segment. Comparing a car that is supposed to go against Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. with an entry level luxury car? Is this the same as when we saw the Hyundai go against the Lexus campaign, or the Land rover cup holders commercial?

VW is overpriced for it's segment and is now pitting it's supposedly mainstream lineup against cars that potentially are closer to Audi's? I mean I know Acura is by no means in the same realm of BMW, Lexus, Audi. But they are closer to that than to their Honda mainliners.

Why not compare the CC to an Accord EX-L loaded to the top?

reply to this comment

Star - 8/11/2008 5:09:51 PM

+7 Boost

There is no competition. VW is looking down to an econo brand like Acura. Only the debilitated American buyer can believe that Acura is a premium brand when all Acura is doing is rebadging the Hondas they sell in Europe.

DieselRules - 8/13/2008 2:29:11 AM

0 Boost

Star: "... all Acura is doing is rebadging the Hondas they sell in Europe."
And what's wrong with that? It works for Lexus!
I've seen Toyota ES300 models on streets in Asia.
They don't know what a "Lexus" is in most countries.
Same with Acura.
This phony badge BS seems to be unique to North America.

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