38 Votes

Talk of a Toyota Bailout is Ridiculous and Absurd

tundrahq submitted on 3/4/2009 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 12:15:10 PM

45 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: www.tundraheadquarters.com

Toyota haters are rallying at news reports that claim that Toyota is "looking for a bailout," but these stories are, at best, misleading.

At worst, they're complete and total lies.

Toyota is in an excellent financial position - especially when compared to GM and Chrysler. Toyota's net cash flow is POSITIVE, which makes them about $3 billion dollars a month more profitable than the most profitable domestic automaker.

Don't believe it? Crack a book sometime - the public financial records are quite clear. Toyota is making money, the "not-so-big three" are losing money. It's pretty simple.

So what's the deal with loan then, right? If Toyota is so well off, why are they asking for $2 billion in loans? The Japanese government is offering $5 billion worth of low interest loans to their top exporters, and Toyota isn't going to walk away from a gift low-interest loan.

Neither is Honda or Mazda, by the way.

You can call the low-interest loan a gift - but you can't call it a bailout. A "bailout" suggests that Toyota needs help to survive. They don't - not even close.

Toyota's financial situation has absolutely nothing in common with the financial situation of GM, Ford, or Chrysler. News reports that imply as much are ridiculous and absurd. Read the article, check the facts, and then join us in criticizing these news organizations for their irresponsible reporting.

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About the Author

Visit TundraHeadquarters.com for Toyota Tundra news, reviews, accessories, and information.
— tundrahq (View Profile)

User Comments

Have to agree with the article. Toyota is in a much different situation than all the other car companies. They have huge cash reserves.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 12:31:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

According to media they are about to report a 7 billion dollar operating loss- Oh shoot an operating loss at Toyota!!!! But they can't blame the industry, Toyota is still profitable...err...Hyundai is still profitable. Must be mismanagement, Must be the fault of these big 4 companies. And if you subscribe to the thought that Toyota is a great god, why is Hyundai picking up share?

Perhaps it comes down to cost and media attention.

In many ways it is too bad our government and the constituents weren't more leading edge to offer loans--Especially, when the frozen credit markets are largely due to lack of proper governance.

The US doesn't subsidize our exports in the same way Korean does for Hyundai, nor do they allow GM to cook their books; remember Hyundai's scandals???? ????
— BradyGordon1 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/8/2009 6:42:54 PM | | Votes: 1

"Unbiased journalism" from Tundra Headquarters. Who needs the WSJ or CNBC when you can get your financial analysis from a Toyota truck blog and forum.
— HSCenterconsole (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 12:35:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

So you don't know how to read a financial statement either?
— tundrahq (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 10:34:42 AM | | Votes: 0

TundraHQ, I'm no stranger to balance sheets, income statements, cash flows, etc. Part of my job is investment research and I wrote my MBA accounting term paper last semester on F and GM's troubles.

My comment was directed at the fact an "article" from a Toyota Truck fanboy site is considered a legitimate source for posting when a plethora of research and articles on this exact subject is available from mainstream media and investment research sources.
— HSCenterconsole (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 12:44:29 PM | | Votes: 0

I don't get it. You call us biased, but you don't disagree with our conclusion. What am I missing? Do you choose to ignore our article and worthwhile conclusion because we're not part of some mega-media corporation?
— tundrahq (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 6:19:55 PM | | Votes: 2

Sadly, Toyota fanbois are still in denial.
— Star (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 12:38:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

And sadly, Star is still a hater.
— _43LE (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 12:40:42 PM | | Votes: 1

Hater of what...lies? You got to be kidding.
— Star (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 12:42:39 PM | | Votes: -3

Hater of anything that you do not like or is not like you.
— _43LE (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 1:44:29 PM | | Votes: 2

You better stop perpetrating thoughtcrimes, Star, or 43 is never going to stop hounding you.
— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 4:57:10 PM | | Votes: 6

Let's coexist! Because everyone loves multiculturalism, right!! Everyone loves freedom, right?

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

— NannerPus (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 5:37:18 PM | | Votes: 4

+100 if I could nanner.
— AdHominem (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 6:21:55 PM | | Votes: 5

Don't be jealous Turbo, I'll still show you some love...
— _43LE (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 10:02:02 PM | | Votes: -1

i cant believe the koran just said that about nonbelievers...thankfully, most muslims dont live like that
— lexusrox123 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/6/2009 9:11:42 AM | | Votes: -1

The situation is plain and simple.

2008 profits:
Toyota :.... USD 22.61 billion
VW AG: ..... USD 5.8 billion
GM (2007):.. USD -38.7 billion
Renault:.... USD 3.4 billion

This should put things in perspective regarding Toyota "bailouts".

So where's the truth?

It's even simpler. US Government provide domestic carmakers with unfair competitive advantage over other manufacturers by borrowing taxpayer money below market prices. So did French and Italian government. German government performed an even worse move, they simple GAVE every German buying a new car and scraping the old one EUR 2500 of taxpayer euros. It's not a loan, it's a gift they will never have to pay back. And since they buy virtually domestic cars only, this is a direct not loan but subsidy for Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Opel.

So managers at Toyota decided they can't accept their competitors being supplied with cheaper (or free, as in German case) cash and decided to apply for the same. A logical move in the perspective of 2009 protectionism.
— downtoearth (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 1:52:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Good points downtoearth.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 2:05:31 PM | | Votes: -1

The two morons above me have no idea what they're talking about.

"German government performed an even worse move, they simple GAVE every German buying a new car and scraping the old one EUR 2500 of taxpayer euros."

You rearranged the words to suit your own needs. The German government DISCOUNTED € 2,500 of every new car bought that satisfied the current and future emission laws. That's it.

Goes to show that a lot of these kids on this board will go to any lengths to make their favorite brands look good and others bad. Really, really pathetic.
— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 3:15:27 PM | | Votes: 8

— ErichHartmann:

> You rearranged the words to suit your own needs.

Yeah, it's pain in the ass to accept reality, nicht wahr, Herr Hartmann?

> The German government DISCOUNTED € 2,500 of every new car bought

And since when it's the government job to lower car prices by subsiding deals from taxpayers' money? The effect is exactly the same as the buyers being given the cash when signing the deal.

> that satisfied the current and future emission laws.

The second part of your sentence is just useless and has been added only to distract readers' attention from the first one which is just a manipulation. Every car that goes on sale has to meet emission regulations, hasn't it? So what's the point of saying it? :)

> Really, really pathetic.

Your denial of what is taking place in Germany is by a mile more pathetic. Let's read on:

Berlin (dpa) - Die große Koalition will mit einer «Umweltprämie» der leidenden deutschen Autoindustrie helfen. Das zeichnete sich am Abend in den Beratungen von Union und SPD in Berlin über ein zweites Konjunkturpaket ab. Käufer von Neuwagen sollen 2500 Euro Prämie bekommen, wenn sie ihr bisheriges, mindestens zehn Jahre altes Fahrzeug abmelden. Für diese Maßnahme seien im zweiten Konjunkturpaket etwa 1,5 Milliarden Euro vorgesehen, erfuhr die dpa aus Koalitionskreisen.

Source: http://www.ad-hoc-news.de/koalition-fuer-umweltpraemie-von-2500-euro-beim-autokauf--/de/Politik/19972962

So this is not even a bailout (which is another word for a loan that has to be paid back) but a subsidy. It will cost German taxpayers, as stated above, EUR 1.5 us-billion ~= USD 1.9 us-billion at current exchange rate.
— downtoearth (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 3:42:16 PM | | Votes: -2

Why would you take the money if you did not need it. If they take this bailout money (low interest loan or whatever else you want to call it), they need it. Just the talk of taking the money is going to hurt them. If only the US government would back their automakers the way Japan does.
— rubber (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 2:44:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

Economic101 says to use others money instead of your own. When shit happens, ask for a bail out.
— Badgewhore (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 2:12:48 AM | | Votes: 3

Did you actually read the article?
— tundrahq (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 10:37:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

leave it to low IQ German fanboys to come up with these fabricated cheap shots :)

FACT: Toyota is the richest most profitable automaker in the world, with over $18billion in CASH reserves.
— sector (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 3:20:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Denail at a river in Egypt fanboys.

Honda thinking about getting in line.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=aAE5Ndf7gEkY&refer=asia

This is from Bloomberg NOT A RABID FAN SITE.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 3:44:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Whatever way you spin it, Toyota asked the government for money. Pure and simple.

I love how outraged people are at the simple mention of tarnishing a already crumbling reputation for Toyota/Lexus
— Obliv (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 3:47:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

Toyota, We are going to see if your brakes are as big as you claim them to be because you are going downhill and nothing is stopping you. Ever since Toyota decided they wanted to be the biggest automaker and take over the world, their quality has gone down.
— rubber (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 4:34:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

They are only down compare to their badass self, but still heads and shoulders above any Euro or american POS. But considering that they are selling more vehicles than ever in such a short period of time, it's more like their quality has improved.
— Badgewhore (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 2:19:27 AM | | Votes: 0

I'm still going to sell my Dodge and buy a Toyota.
— dodahman (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 4:58:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

A lateral move, imo.
— Obliv (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 6:23:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Toyota will be the last car company standing.
— truthpursuit (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 6:48:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

All carmakers should avail of their respective government's bailout fund because its there, its available and its at a very low interest. Most probably its payable when able. Toyota and profitable car companies can use the money for some really advanced r and d. Toyota can easily repay this loan whenever.
The way I see it, Toyota is just grabbing the opportunity to use "cheap money".
— woood (View Profile)

Posted on 3/4/2009 10:47:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Yep - that's exactly what's happening.
— tundrahq (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 10:38:55 AM | | Votes: 2

I love it - "about the author" is a Toyota advertisement LMAO. I think that sums it up.
FYI, If Toyota really had as much cash on hand as their cooked statements say, they wouldn't have asked for $2b in loans. $2b in loans (which must be repaid, unlike the German subsidy) is not worth the huge PR hit they took and the ice cold bath shareholders took for that announcement. Especially not if they're *profitable* and already sitting on 18+ billion. Why take something you don't need if the results are overwhelmingly negative? Something stinks here.
— bd5034 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 12:21:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

That smell is the BS you're spewing. I bet you think the moon landing was a conspiracy too, right?
— tundrahq (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 6:21:05 PM | | Votes: 2

oh, and in response to downtoearth:

The German subsidy on cars is no different than any of the other subsidies that every government around the world is handing out to their constituents. Automotive subsidies are no different than new home buying subsidies - period. They're also no different on a balance sheet than writing off a donation or your lost assets. All are government subsidies, designed to promote specific consumer behavior. Japan has them too. Perhaps they don't subsidize the same exact things as we do, but they have them just the same. L2P
— bd5034 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 12:31:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Its clear people in here don't travel outside of their small state b/c if you knew about Japanese economics, you would know this is not unusual.
— BarackBush (View Profile)

Posted on 3/5/2009 9:39:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Well I doubt this statement. Currently none car company is in "excellent financial position". In good definetly but excellent, NO!
— AUTO_UNION (View Profile)

Posted on 3/6/2009 4:57:08 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Let me start by saying I have an inside Toyota perspective on this so called bailout. This bailout is the stupidest thing I have heard in a while! I can say that I know for a fact that Toyota has enough cash on hand(not in banks and cold hard cash)to buy GM and possibly one of the other big three... Think about what they are doing if they are asking for some low interest loan from thier government. They borrow at low interest, lets say 2 percent, then lend this money to buyers at, lets say 4 percent, that is two percent PURE PROFIT at no cost to them. You typical big 3 losers don't think about how to make money when an oppurtinity arises you
most likely are thinking of how much its going to cost this year to your car on the road! I also seen that someone had mentioned something about toyota recalls in the past few years, those are voluntary recalls to take care of the consumer and not government mandated. The big 3 will leave you responsible for thier screwups unless the government mandates it.. been there done that, will not do it again. If you want to have a battle
of facts let me know, leave your imagination to yourself!
Toyota has plenty of money, trust me....
— ToyotaWorker94 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/6/2009 5:07:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

ToyotaWorker94...Well said because Toyota is truly a phenomenom and Lexus is the heir of this greatness.
— lexworld (View Profile)

Posted on 3/7/2009 2:28:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

all Toyota will regret there car soon !, Toyota want to be #1, watch there Quality how low it goes, time will tell !
— toyotasuck (View Profile)

Posted on 3/27/2009 5:34:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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Talk of a Toyota Bailout is Ridiculous and Absurd

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