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Teach An New Dog Old Tricks? Lexus Debuts The quattro Inspired LS460 AWD In Moscow

Agent009 submitted on 08/27/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:41 PM
from: www.nihoncar.com

[61] user comments | category: New Cars

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Teach An New Dog Old Tricks? Lexus Debuts The quattro Inspired LS460 AWD In Moscow

Most of Lexus competitors have been proposing an All Wheel Drive version of their luxury sedan for years, so it was about time for the Japan-American manufacturer to come up with a similar version and there it goes: the LS460AWD.

Horrendous weather conditions? Fear no more, the AWD system and Torsen differentiel guarantee a high level of grip with up to 60% of the power sent to the rear wheel when necessary. Under the bonnet lies the 4.6L V8, good for 280KW (380HP) and loads of torque.

The Moscow Auto Show is the perfect place for Lexus to show off its technology, the Russian capital being filled with billionnaires.

Official PR:

The LS 460’s outstanding performance, sure-footed dynamic abilities and advanced active safety systems have been further strengthened by the addition of permanent all-wheel drive. The all-wheel drive system is a three differential configuration featuring a highly compact TORSEN® Limited Slip Differential (LSD) – shared with the LS 600h - which distributes drive torque between the front and rear axles with a 40:60 rear axle bias in torque distribution.

Editors Note: Most of Audi quattro vehicles have utilized the TORSEN® differentials since the 1980's.

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1dott8 - 8/27/2008 2:56:41 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

with the torsen diff. this is basically the Japanese version of the A8.

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Agent009 - 8/27/2008 3:02:11 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

It could be considered that...

Kraut_god - 8/27/2008 3:23:10 PM

-3 Boost

Actor-driver Paul Newman installed a Torsen in his Bob Sharp Datsun. During the 1982 racing season, Newman had the most successful record of his driving career.

Audi copied datsun.

B7FAN - 8/27/2008 3:38:23 PM

+7 Boost

If this is sucessful in another 5-10 years Lexus could have a good market with reliability, and an AWD system if it stands the test of time.

Agent009 - 8/27/2008 3:47:44 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

Torsen has stood the test of time. It should compliment Lexus well.

hao420 - 8/27/2008 4:50:55 PM

+3 Boost

Huge beast gets fun....

WorldofLuxury - 8/27/2008 8:15:43 PM

+5 Boost

A couple of years ago 380hp was a lot, and it still is too much for just 2 wheels.

I'm a little behind on this, but I remember reading an InsideLine comparison of 4x4's (very long time ago)...and they said that the G-class was the only vehicle in the US market that provided 3 differential configurations. Well, NOT ANYMORE! lol

Still...380 hp was the power of a naturally aspirated 10 cylinder not so long ago, yet the cars are more efficient now. My oh my has the world changed!

mitchatlexusofmarin - 8/27/2008 3:02:30 PM

-2 Boost

Editors note: Toyota owns Torsen.

reply to this comment

Agent009 - 8/27/2008 3:14:41 PMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

Founded in 1984, the company was formed under the name Gleason Power Systems. This was a small division of the Rochester, NY based Gleason Corporation. Click on the company history outline hyperlink for more information!

Gleason Power Systems was acquired in 1989 by Diesel Kiki, who then changed their name to Zexel. Torsen was adopted in the name to better distinguish what our division does compared to the rest of Zexel Corporation.

Zexel Torsen, Inc. was a part of the worldwide Zexel Torsen business which was majority-held since 1999 by the Robert Bosch Corporation. Torsen designs and manufactures the patented TORSEN® differential.

Toyoda Machine Works Ltd., in 2003, purchased the worldwide Torsen division from Robert Bosch / Zexel Corporation. Zexel Torsen, Inc. was then renamed Toyoda-Koki Automotive Torsen North America Inc. to reflect this change. The company name change became effective September 1, 2003.

Koyo Bearing Corporation merged with Toyoda Machine Works and formed JTEKT. This new company will have its focus on four major product lines of which Torsen is part of their Automotive Driveline business.

Agent009 - 8/27/2008 3:21:26 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

I guess about as close to Toyota as General Motors Defense project were to GM. Same company by 3 degrees of separation.

2JayZee - 8/27/2008 3:04:18 PM

+2 Boost

Whats with the editors note? Did they say that it was some kind of industry first? I don't think so, as the have been using Torsen diffs on the Celica GT-4 for ages.

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Agent009 - 8/27/2008 3:22:31 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

Editors note is to make it clear this is not an innovation (hear that MT), but an important product enhancement.

2JayZee - 8/27/2008 6:02:16 PM

+4 Boost

Seriously, If anybody reading this site, thinks that the Torsen Diff is some kind on new innovation they ought to be banned.

M35MT - 8/27/2008 3:13:01 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

No brainer.

Most consumers in the northeast buy SUVs just for capability in the snow. This may even cannabilize sales from the LX570.

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abcd - 8/27/2008 3:17:25 PM

-1 Boost

torsen wasn`t invented by audi , other cars also use torsen differential - toyota celica gt4 from 90`s was using it , toyota land cruiser , hummer , lancia delta integrale ... . First audi`s quattro wasn`t using torsen , audi introduced torsen in 1987 .

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Agent009 - 8/27/2008 3:30:04 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

Actually Audi used them in 1986 in Europe. Like most suppliers the make units for the entire industry and everyone uses them.

abcd - 8/27/2008 4:39:18 PM

-1 Boost

sometimes suppliers co-develop some technologies with specific auto companies , not for everyone .

Agent009 - 8/28/2008 9:09:31 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

That is why you see the magneride electromechanical suspension on both Cadillacs and other luxury brands. Similar to DSG transmissions.

1evlaudi - 8/28/2008 11:23:21 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

abcd

like Kraut Moron, check your facts, quattro was introduced on 1980, actually the ur quattro was using 2 Torsen, one central, one rear...

HSCenterconsole - 8/27/2008 3:38:45 PM

-1 Boost

BORING is now all weather capable.

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1dott8 - 8/27/2008 3:40:54 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

calm down people, i never said Audi invented it. all i said was "with the torsen diff. this is basically the Japanese version of the A8". i'm not taking anything away from any manufacturer.

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Agent009 - 8/27/2008 3:46:46 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

no worries 1dott8 some people are just blinded by the light.

sector - 8/27/2008 3:47:58 PM

-5 Boost

Wow a Torsen diff... can this car get any better? I don't think so.

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M316 - 8/27/2008 3:55:57 PM

0 Boost

with the exception that the A8 is front drive by nature.

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1dott8 - 8/27/2008 7:41:16 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

care to elaborate...

B7FAN - 8/28/2008 7:48:23 AM

0 Boost

In 1997 4 years after it was released in europe the A8 was introduced in the U.S as a front wheel drive car with the option of a torsen based quattro. front wheel drive was standard on the 2.7L V6 and the 3.7L V8 and the 4.2 was the only car that had the quattro. 1999 or 2000 was when they started offering quattro as a standard on the A8

aarononymous - 8/29/2008 8:19:13 PM

+2 Boost

B7FAN a FWD A8 is as rare as hens teeth. They made them but good luck finding one.

Agent009 - 8/27/2008 4:09:44 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

The split is for the 2009 A8 is 40/60 just like the 2009 LS460 AWD.

But remember the torque will go the way it is needed most, up to 75% in either direction. So in limited traction situations the torque split bias should never be an issue.

reply to this comment

abcd - 8/27/2008 4:42:31 PM

-3 Boost

Maybe it is using exacly the same unit . I don`t remember what torque split is in land cruiser but I suppose it may also be the same .

Agent009 - 8/28/2008 9:07:23 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

probably an adaptation of an existing design. I wouldn't doubt the differential is the exact same as on a an A8.

david999 - 8/27/2008 4:17:14 PM

-4 Boost

All this means is more LS sales for Lexus.

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JRobUSC - 8/27/2008 11:11:19 PM

+4 Boost

and now there's officially no reason whatsoever to spend $33k extra for an LS600h that isn't any quicker, doesn't get any better fuel economy, and has half the trunk.

EL34 - 8/27/2008 4:25:03 PM

-2 Boost

No one is gonna buy a LS460 AWD.

Lexus is all about buying a cheap car with the perception they're driving an expensive car.

Lexus next :-\

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Larry - 8/27/2008 4:25:37 PM

0 Boost

Judging by all your news Agent 009 i would guess you drive an Audi A3.

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Agent009 - 8/27/2008 4:30:24 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

Nope. But one of my current project cars is an A4.

I have owned BMW's (M3), Lexus LS, and RX), Audi (S4 and A4) and others in the past.

This just happens to be a slow day with a few Audi releases. Some days are all Lexus, some are all BMW. kinda goes like that.

bmwdrvr - 8/27/2008 5:20:11 PM

0 Boost

this poster must be really fond of Audis as everything seems to be focused on Audi being better than BMW, or being influence of other brands, or top in classes......can we get less bias articles...its getting rediculous.....just because the LS gets Awd it doesnt mean it was Quattro or Audi inspired.... i mean seriously...Mercedes has had a 4matic S class for years....and not because FWD isnt worthy of a flagship sedan..........

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VISO - 8/27/2008 6:05:23 PM

-2 Boost

And you are so unbias? Right? What a hypocrit!

bmwdrvr - 8/27/2008 6:09:02 PM

-4 Boost

one you cant spell what you are trying to call me...second no Im not biased...and certainly not in this rediculous manner......as this poster and yourself

aarononymous - 8/28/2008 9:48:21 PM

+2 Boost

Uhh yes you are very biased, you just can't admit it. Everyone here is biased.

JUGNU - 8/27/2008 7:21:06 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Nothing new. Same old Agent009's German cars biassed headlines. Pessimistic towards any new Lexus model or technology.

This could also be the result of Toyota's recent links with Subaru. Subaru is a world renowned AWD maker. Symmetrical AWD. No way lesser than any Quattro.

JUGNU

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VISO - 8/27/2008 10:11:27 PM

+3 Boost

bmwdrvr, obviously you cannot spell either - ridiculous. Your tag line clearly states your bias against Audi and with your many anti-Audi rants from previous posts. It is obvious from so many of your posts you have something against Audi as if BMW was somehow better -not! So, please stop pretending to be fair with your opinion. It is ok to be a bimmer fanboi, but stop with BS anti-Audi crap already. You are close to joining Amazing idiot on that scale.

Agent009 - 8/28/2008 9:11:29 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Subi rocks in my book. Solid, well designed, and competent vehicles. Hard to argue with that.

aarononymous - 8/29/2008 8:16:08 PM

+2 Boost

VISO, my thoughts exactly. At least amazin just posts anti VW/Audi crap in Audi/VW topics. Bmwdrvr posts anti-Audi crap in every topic. Bmwdrvr just admit you are biased. I am biased towards Audi so I post in Audi threads but wish nothing bad towards BMW or MB. You are so Anti-Audi biased you probably have a 10:1 ration of Audi/BMW posts.

AMiodynski - 8/27/2008 7:49:01 PM

-4 Boost

I think Mercedes better get their crap together. Everyone that wanted a LS460, but bought a Mercedes because of the 4Matic, will now have a reason to come back to reliability, I mean Lexus...

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Agent63 - 8/27/2008 9:54:17 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Not really.

kpaxx - 8/28/2008 11:17:13 AM

0 Boost

4matic is a more reliable system than torsen...there are alot of complex gearings in a torsen diff which have been known to fail after abuse! 4matic is inherently a simpler system!

aarononymous - 8/29/2008 8:17:58 PM

+1 Boost

I've only seen 1 torsen diff fail & it was after the center diff leaked on a high mileage car & the owner never thought to address the oil spots on the floor.

There really aren't a lot of gears & no electronics, solid, simple system

S4cabriofoxone - 8/30/2008 7:17:56 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"Everyone that wanted a LS460, but bought a Mercedes because of the 4Matic..."

I don't know who exactly you're talking about. Conversely, I have a friend who wanted a demo S550 but they wouldn't extend his warranty (it already had 8,000mi so they were willing to offer a 42,000mi warranty), so he had to go for the Lexus instead, but is thus far disappointed in his purchase. Coming out of a lemon-esque 2004 A8L, he says he would give up the LS's reliability to have a car that's more fun to drive.

StickShiftCamry - 8/27/2008 9:30:31 PM

-4 Boost

I hate AWD - at least the RWD is a little fun and able to do burnouts...

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S4cabriofoxone - 8/30/2008 7:19:00 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Ever consider the fact that some people live in areas that have all four seasons?

S4cabriofoxone - 8/30/2008 7:19:02 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Ever consider the fact that some people live in areas that have all four seasons?

2001W210 - 8/27/2008 10:11:38 PM

0 Boost

This isn't surprise and good for Lexus! We need all good AWD help here in Northern NJ. I wonder how much is Lexus AWD is going to cost?

reply to this comment

huu76 - 8/27/2008 10:43:36 PM

-1 Boost

LS600hL is AWD.

The 1983 Toyota Tercel 4WD showed sedans/compacts using all 4 tires to propel them didn't start with Audi.

Boring article though, makes it sound like another 'someone copied the Germans' rant.

reply to this comment

1evlaudi - 8/28/2008 11:26:36 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

kpaxx

based on what facts and proof are you basing your comments?

darzav - 8/28/2008 2:56:00 AM

+2 Boost

Interesting. Nice car. Drives well. AWD must be interesting. All in all. If it werent for the 1 i owned breaking down. I would still have it. Now i look back at it. I wonder why i bought it in the first place. Doesnt turn heads. Doesnt give me anything better than its German rivals. Infact gives nothing compared to its German rivals. Well it will always be a budget luxury car. Superb quality. Second place to its rivals.

reply to this comment

2001W210 - 8/29/2008 2:38:14 AM

+1 Boost

There isn't a single car in the Lexus dealer that is budget luxury anymore. They have stepped away from budget to over priced in matter of years. They once did delivered VERY GOOD RELIABLE VALUE LUXURY cars for years but salesmen at Lexus dealers became more snobbier then BMW's as they keep kissing old uptight farts ass and Lexus keep supply boring cars. They need to step up and need to make car that is more desirable and for younger.

Come on Lexus!!! Make us a coupe that will blow away any rivals!!!

adamsaf723 - 8/28/2008 9:59:16 AM

0 Boost

I just hope it doesn't have the hump on the driver's side like the IS and GS have.

It probably won't, because the 600hL doesn't, but just sayin.

reply to this comment

1evlaudi - 8/28/2008 11:20:54 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Kraut moron

you are so ignorant it is not even funny, Audi worked on quattro as soon as 1977, and introduced the Audi quattro in 1980, so Paul Newman copied Audi.
Check your facts and make sure your brain is engaged before you start writing.

Agent 009,
can you check something for us, I think Gleason patented Torsen in 1958?

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 8/30/2008 7:21:39 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

You know, I've been waiting for this. I'll give it a test drive but after thinking it over, I've realized that there's really no reason for me to buy it over an A8. If I REALLY wanted a car that was luxury-only, I would definitely buy this, but the A8 has everything that I would want in the LS460 AWD, plus a lot more in the way of performance.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 9/1/2008 11:45:20 AM

0 Boost

1evlaudi,
I don't know, perhaps the title proclaiming Lexus had never heard of AWD until Audi introduced it.

Facts? Are you trying to claim the 1983 Tercel 4WD never existed?

reply to this comment

1evlaudi - 9/1/2008 4:04:49 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

huu

what's that having to do with Lexus, who cares about a 1983 Tercel AWD, and even then, that is 3 years after the introduction of quattro.
In Rally racing, it is considered by all experts in the world that there are 2 periods, before quattro and after quattro.
That the japanese companies were the first to copy the idea, the system or the engineering is nothing surprising.
I am here talking about successful mass production passenger vehicle, not some "one off" or limited productions run, for all the hard headed populating this forum on a constant basis.
The 20 years ago the Japanese manufacturers were no more than what the Chinese manufacturers are now, just copying what seem to be financially viable and profitable.

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