The BMW "The Run and Hide Theory"

PlanoA4 submitted on 08/14/2006 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:38 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[50] user comments | category: Misc News

Tags: BMW Audi

BMW Audi

Anyone would be a fool to say the BMW 3 series or the Audi A4/S4 are not successful ventures with excellent pedigrees.

However for remarkably similar vehicles the Audi A4/S4 and the BMW 3/M3 never really compete against each other much on the track where the real boys commonly play and bragging rights are at stake.

When the paths do cross the BMW’s seem to be at a distinct disadvantage. Actually when Audi announces they are entering a series BMW tends to pack up bags and play somewhere else.

Examples:

DTM Racing a unique German Series originally created in 1984. BMW initially participates until 1989, however Audi starts in 1990 and BMW leaves the series and Audi wins the series in 1990 and 1991 in an Audi 100 and again in a TT in 2002 and again in 2004 in the A4. The series does not run from 1995 to 1999.

WTCC- SEAT (owned by Audi) is currently leading the series. BMW is in second

Championship Rally 1983 and 1984 Audi took the world championship with the Quattro. Not a BMW in sight.. Actually since the advent of AWD in Rally not a single BMW has ever competed successfully that I can tell. Where are the touted X-Drives?

Speed World Challenge

2000 Audi enters mid season, and barley loses the entire series by 20 points to BMW despite missing races.
2001 Audi S4 takes the series closest BMW is 5th place
2002 Audi S4 takes the series closest BMW is 25th place
2003 Audi RS6 takes the series BMW is 2nd place
2004 Audi RS6 is 2nd place closest BMW is 27th Audi factory pulls out to pursue other interests

American Lemans: Audi enters and wins series in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and is undefeated in 2006

24 hours of Lemans: Audi wins in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004,2005, 2006 2003 was an basically an Audi R8 raced under the Bentley banner which took the race. BMW won in 1999 and the Audis placed 3rd and 4th in their debut. BMW pulled out in 2000.

So the question is why and where are the BMW’s? And more importantly why does BMW "pursue" other efforts when Audi announces it is going to play.

Comments..err excuses please.

Comments:

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PlanoA4 - 8/14/2006 2:59:02 PM

+2 Boost

That was my point.

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nybimmer - 8/14/2006 3:10:35 PM

-1 Boost

Who cares?

BMW is smart enough to know that there is little in common between race cars and street cars and that BMW customers know the same. BMW focuses on what its customers care about - reliable cars and excellent dealer service.

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DarkOneForce - 8/14/2006 3:22:59 PM

0 Boost

OK, first I have to say I hate the new Autispies, since every basher and/or uninformed person can actually make a crapy topic.

WTCC, is the championship over yet ?!
BMW lead, for now it's Seat, but Alfa pilots were really on top at Pueblo.
Remember, last year the championship ended in the very last race.

Speed World Challenge ?!
Never heard about, didn't knew Audi and BMW waiste time on such meaningless things.
How about its predecesor the ETCC, BMW 24 titles, Audi embarassed by Alfa Romeo.

BTW about rally, actually the E30 M3 was quite succesfull in national rally championships around Europe, probably more so then the Quattro.

DTM, in the early 1990s, I haven't got a clue, but I know audi withdrew since the V8 was considered illegal. And later MB influenced DTM officials so that the BMW GTR not be alowed.
Right now, DTM is seen as just too expensive, and the future of DTM is anything but sure.

As for LeMans/AMLS, well it wasn't just BMW that pulled out, MB, Toyota and Nissan also pulled out.
Basicaly, no major manufacturer or previous winner was interested in LeMans LMP1 class/overall victory.

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crackityjones - 8/14/2006 3:23:09 PM

+1 Boost

Plano, you should know that whatever the deficiency, BMW is exempt.

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PlanoA4 - 8/14/2006 3:34:22 PM

+1 Boost

So far I hear alot of excuses, but really no explanation or any facts. I am not challenging BMW’s integrity or competitiveness. But historically this is an observation. It is well know that if the Audi factory enters a series, it will eventually dominate.

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tundraboy - 8/14/2006 3:40:12 PM

+1 Boost

It's really only a very small, unintelligent segment of the car market who buys street cars based on a marque's racing performance.

I'm trying to imagine a full grown adult who is smart enough to earn a living that would make an Audi or BMW affordable. Somehow I don't see him saying oooh I'll buy an Audi because they won more races than BMW.

I guess PlanoA4 just revealed his demographic.

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PlanoA4 - 8/14/2006 3:56:26 PM

+1 Boost

tundraboy- Well considering most of wrld does look at success in all facets of competition and design as a significant factor. It is often termed as breeding and heritage. This is why the lexus boys get little respect. They compete, but tend to be also rans most of the time.

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PlanoA4 - 8/14/2006 3:57:04 PM

+1 Boost

tundraboy- Well considering most of world does look at success in all facets of competition and design as a significant factor before buying. These forms of competiton bring innovations to the street. It is often termed as breeding and heritage. This is why the lexus boys get little respect. They compete, but tend to be also rans most of the time.

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Sauceboy01 - 8/14/2006 4:11:04 PM

+1 Boost

The bottom line that gave Audi extreme success on the playing field was the intorduction of their "Quattro" AWD technology. Quattro coupled with top notch drivers always gave AUDI the top advantage regardless of the weight handicaps the racing organizations gave AUDI to slow them down a bit.

Now, i wonder how it would have worked out if BMW incorporated their own "X" technology (AWD again) back then when it wasn't available, especially in race form.

hmmm... this article really doesn't say much about both these companies.. In fact i've made up my mind to say that this article was written as a past time for whomever wrote it. The term "blowing smoke up my ass" comes to mind.

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chewy - 8/14/2006 4:11:37 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

nybimmer

You haven't heard that BMW spents about 500 million a year in F1? I will stay away from this discussion, as there is not needed for brand wars.

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PlanoA4 - 8/14/2006 4:22:36 PM

+1 Boost

DarkOneForce-

Well you are free to post, If your don't like the format, express your view point to 001 he will listen.

WTCC- Currently a vibrant on on going series BMW does compete here and have done well when Audi isn't around

Speedworld Challenge- The defacto series for these types of vehicles in North America very important to the Brands.

Rally- E30M3 is a good car for the lower classes of competition. However BMW is a World Class maker, in the world Class WRC the E30M3 is dog meat. Outclassed by smaller cars, better traction, and better technology.

DTM- Audi competed in several iterations of DTM in including the current series. It is pretty much a German Series that BMW refuses to compete against. I wonder if Audi and the AMG boys are a bit too tough or if BMW is afraid of losing against the heralded German competition. That may humiliate them too much.

Lemans- The BMW LMR ran for 2 season, it was simply outclasses in the second season. that is a sizeable investment to walk away from. I really would not be concerned in why MB, Nissan, and Toyota would have pulled out. My concern lay with BMW. So a diversion to why the other marquees did is irrelevant.

The purpose of the post was not who competed in what, it was why BMW exhibited a history of pulling out in the face of Audi.

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PlanoA4 - 8/14/2006 4:34:27 PM

+1 Boost

Sauceboy01- Sorry but this is not smoke blowing, it is simply a compilation of observations when looking at historical data. I do see BMW as a strong force to be reckoned with. I would prefer them to face off with the others in their class.

When the 3 series comes to racing it appears the tend to pick off lesser brands rather then the direct competition. Only in F1 do they choose to play hardball, however F1 yields far less back to the street than other forms of racing. This is why Audi has not ventured there yet. Lemans is a better path to improve the breed.

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JRobUSC - 8/14/2006 4:58:16 PM

+1 Boost

I'd say BMW takes plenty of F1 technology and puts it on the street. The V10 from the M5/M6 is F1 derived, as is the 7 speed SMG. Considering F1 is the most popular racing circuit in the world, that means a lot more to most aficianados than the fact that Audi dominates a bunch of smaller series that no one else competes in.

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JRobUSC - 8/14/2006 5:29:52 PM

+1 Boost

Will, it's still not Formula 1. Mazda won LeMans once.

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DallasMR2 - 8/14/2006 5:38:24 PM

+2 Boost

JESUS CHRIST! why can't this site go back to being a General Automotive Enthusiast site? why is it that EVERY TIME i log on there are countless topics about who's d!ck is bigger, i mean who's the better car brand. i mean GIVE ME A BREAK! how would you guys like it if there were all kinds of chevy/ford guys on here constantly posting the SAME BS?!?!?! save the arguments for those who actually care...i.e. BMW or Audi forums!!! isn't this site autospies.com? doesn't that imply that it should be for spy shots and other underground news exclusively? let's quit the school yard bitching and just know they are both great car companies with loyal followings. the chevy/ford rivalry isn't going anywhere any time soon so don't think these little posts are going to change any minds.

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streetb - 8/14/2006 6:36:19 PM

+1 Boost

amen to that. this would make great case study of how adding web 2.0 features to an already successful website ruined it.

PlanoA4, i mean no disrespect and i generally like your posts, but the posts on this site have gone in the general direction of subjective pissing contests.

Agent001, you need to ask digg for your money back because this website sucks now.

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AlexTx - 8/14/2006 7:20:49 PM

+2 Boost

At the last Le mans, a record crowd of over 235,000 people showed up.
Le mans is more popular than F1 for the past 10 years.
I love both races, but Le Mans is really spectacular.
Audi brought FSI to their race cars and it was a huge innovation that can also be found in street cars.
And now you have Diesel power with a car that is still undefeated!!
That is quite an achievement!!

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tundraboy - 8/14/2006 7:26:45 PM

+1 Boost

PlanoA4:

You say "Well considering most of world does look at success in all facets of competition and design as a significant factor before buying."

Well in fact no.

Only you and the other 2% of the car buying public let race results affect your decision. Most car buyers couldn't care less how many times Audi won Le Mans or how many F1 races BMW has won. If they did then Audi should be selling more cars than BMW right now. But they're not.

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SixxFive - 8/14/2006 7:55:28 PM

+1 Boost

DallasMR2: awesome post!

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PlanoA4 - 8/14/2006 10:41:16 PM

0 Boost

DallasMR2- I agree there is a bit too much "mine is bigger than yours". However if you look at the posts, 99% of mine a pure news taken from bonafide sources. I have made over 100 of them this month alone, those are articles, Bubba not comments. Where are you on the list?

Actually I post a lot in favor of things I really don't agree in. Example, I far and away post the most on upcoming hybrids, but to me they are short sighted. However they are newsworthy so I do my duty. I really don't care for Lexus, but since a majority of the toylex guys refuse to post, and prefer to say “woe is me”. I post articles on their behalf.

I was preparing an article on BMW, Audi, and MB competition through the years, when I ran across this issue. I realized the BMW RARELY competed with Audi. I thought it was odd and I posted it. Simple as that.

The bottom line is some of you are complaining and the real fact is you contribute very little but objections. If you really want to support your Marquee then post a few articles on it. It is sad when the only guy that comes to bat for you Toyota/Lexus guys really doesn't like them. I try to tell it like it is, weather you like it of not.

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PlanoA4 - 8/14/2006 10:46:41 PM

0 Boost

CommonSense- From your post
"Are you buying a race car? i didnt think so."

As you recall both of my Audis are modified, The S4 is raced on a regular basis. So in a simple response, "I do buy race cars". I do not buy "paper tigers or rice rockets". Those typically are bought by those who don't care, or are too young to know better. Actually my wife has owned a few of them, so I guess those can be classified as "chick cars"

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PlanoA4 - 8/14/2006 10:50:07 PM

+1 Boost

Will- Motorcycles? Well Audi hasn’t built a motorcycle since I believe World War One. But they do make a killer mountain bike, I bet it would compete pretty well against the BMW BMX bike is posted on a while back.

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YZFracer23 - 8/15/2006 1:04:00 AM

0 Boost

Tundraboy, hate to break it to you, but my uncle is worth more than probably 100 times the worth of your home and only buys cars with good racing background such as his porsche, audi, ferrari, and corvette. He will not even think about any other company. Maybe he said a gt40, but only because of it's RACING HISTORY. So your idea of wealthy people not doing that, it complete BS.

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Rupert - 8/15/2006 8:00:18 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

racing history has nothing to do with which cars i'll buy.
an s4 cab or a 335 cab?
audi won lemans so i'll pick that.
don't think so. i'd pick a car based on a rational decision. or which one looks cooler.

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PlanoA4 - 8/15/2006 8:53:26 AM

+1 Boost

Commonsense- The S4 is a "sports Sedan" in the truest sense, due to the fact that it has 4 doors. Actually my S4 weighs about 3300 lbs, about what a 911 weighs, so the SUV analogy is not really applicable. But I give you credit in the fact you are correct.

True the S4 and the M3 are similar in comparison. However the AWD makes the difference. I know you have viewed the videos in the past that prove that. IS350 styling is a subjective, if you like it then that is your choice. The rear ¾ view kinda looks like a ghetto girl, fat bottom and all. And yes it probably has better reliability in the strictest of sense. But I don’t care about fractional quantities that are so minute, I have a better chance of getting attack by shark on a beach than experiencing a catastrophic failure.

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PlanoA4 - 8/15/2006 9:06:13 AM

+1 Boost

Rupert- I repec your viewpoint, however to many buying a car is an emotional experience. Don't believe me? Ask the BMW guys why a 3 Series is better than a Lexus, I’ll give you about 5 mins of conversation before they lose control.

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PlanoA4 - 8/15/2006 1:29:29 PM

+2 Boost

logical- Sales is nothing but sales. It does not indicate a technological prowness in any area. It is mearly a reflection of marketing and target demographics.

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PlanoA4 - 8/15/2006 2:18:25 PM

+2 Boost

logical- never have owned a Jetta, where are you coming from? You still riding that Huffy and wishing for a Schwinn?

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RedCalipers - 8/15/2006 3:01:07 PM

+1 Boost

Agreed with DallasMR2 and Rupert, besides PlanoA4, if you believe Audi is the best, why are you defending it over and over again? Just let it be.

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IamEvilHomer - 8/15/2006 4:18:20 PM

+1 Boost

Logical -wwwaaa

can't stay away from the audi rooms can you

1# in prestege but I think they do better them BMw at least in sales for most countries / US is where BMW designes there cars for (if not makes them here)

but most of the world loves Audi more sorry logical

Audi Vehicles Win Global Awards www.audiusa.com
When it comes to awards, 2005 proved to be a signature year for Audi — from Double Best Picks from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety to Engine and Design Awards from Ward's Auto World. The recognition extends well beyond North America. Two separate polls — the annual European Internet user poll and the auto motor und sport reader poll — bestowed top honors on the Audi A3, A4, A6, and A8, which each won "best car" designations in their respective categories. And the Audi A6, already winner of the first-ever World Car of the Year award, garnered another two citations: best four-wheel-drive car of 2005 in the luxury class from the German publication AutoBild, and Best Exterior Design from WADA, or Wheels Automotive Design Awards, a collaboration between Wheels, Australia's leading motoring magazine, and the Australian Design Awards.

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PlanoA4 - 8/16/2006 9:45:14 AM

+1 Boost

Commonsense- Yawn... Why did you settle for the FX again?

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