The Genesis is stealing sales, but from who?

Who knows. IMHO, its one of two things:

A) They are stealing sales from just about a little of everybody.

B) They have found an all new kind of the "car buyer".

— LACMAN (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 5:23:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

may be from caddy and Lincoln
they can' touch MB or BMW, Lexus or Infiniti sorry

— pchera01 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 5:26:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -15   

Look at that S80 go!

— Whatthe (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 5:36:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Well going purely by numbers it would appear it is taking sales away from everyone except the Infiniti M and Volvo S80, as everyone else's numbers have dropped since the Genesis came out and those two increased. By the numbers it would appear the 5 took the biggest hit.

— PerformanceGuy (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 5:58:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8   

The GS sales are dipping because it's too expensive, and you have the ES $10,000 cheaper, that does the same stuff and has more room.

— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 10:57:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

That's not the point. If you look at BMW and Mercedes' line, they have the 3/5 and the C/E. Lexus has a middleman, the budget ES between the IS and GS. When the economy is tough like this, I think people are willing to give up a second on their 0-60 and lose a double wishbone suspension to save $10,000. The same thing is going on with Acura... why get the RL when you can get the TL and save a boat load of money?

— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 11:56:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

I don't think they are stealing sales from the Mercury Grand Marquis, even though they are similar v8 rear drive sedans.

I mentioned earlier that one could buy 2 Grand Marquis for the price of a Genesis. Now with Employee Pricing for All, it is actually more like 3 Grand Marquis for the price of a Genesis.

I know someone who just bought a used Mitsubishi with 40K miles. She paid $16,000. She could have bought a Brand New Grand Marquis for less money, and she would get a factory warrantee as well.

She thinks she got a great deal and that it is a good car simply because it is foreign, but the vehicle is ready for new tires, brakes, and so on. Some deal.

We tend to buy what is fashionable these days and convince ourselves that it was a great decision.

Yep, The Mercury has a live axle on a Dinosaur platform, but I'm unsure of the importance of that. It seems to handle the interstate rather well. Maybe I would notice the difference if I was a Motor Trend writer taking on the slalom.

— mercuryguy (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 7:08:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -11   

Guys, based on this single dimension the rational conclusion is that conquest sales are coming from both BMW & Lexus competitors. However, this simple chart does not even tell a small part of the whole story - like how many Azera owners have upped into the Genesis? What about luxo intenders? The entire segment is plummeting so it is prudent to say that sales iof a new vehicle have to come from somewhere. Based exclusively on this chart the conclusion MUST be 5-Series & GS trended over months since Genesis was launched.

— THESCOOTER (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 7:58:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I don't get how Lincoln is even able to get some of the sales it does. I thought Audi priced their cars out of their range. Atleast with the Audi you get some degree of substance with your purchase. Lincolns are just gussied up Ford's, and then they tack on about $12k to the price.

Lincoln needs to go back to the LS formula. They had it right with that car, even if it was sourced from the Brits(gotta throw that in there before some dou**e points it out). Sometimes I wonder why some car companies produce these one-off wonders that sell and then go "eh...let's axe it".

— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 8:51:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

bmw8ter What do you think Lexus is all it is a Toyota Camry, with a 15, to 20,000 price differnce. Infact there is no Lexus in forein countrys they cannot sell outside of this country.

— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 10:27:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7   

FOR THE 100TH TIME it the Lincoln MKS is on the S80's platform! It is amazing how the Lincoln gets slammed for bringing out the best model they have. It really shows the support for Lincoln.I mean why doesn't anyone call the Escalade a warmed up GMC or that the CTS is a warmed up Malibu? People call the MKS a warmed up Ford when this is one of the Lincolns built on a Volvo platform. Don't even get me started on Toyota..wait sorry Lexus every model except the LS i basically a warmed up Toyota.

— jt716 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 9:07:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

*is

— jt716 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 9:27:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

The GS is definitely the easiest target and most effected...I've driven the new Genesis (3.8)...Awesome vehicle with a great interior and excellent mix of ride & handling...I drive an 08 Infiniti G35xS and I was expecting a much softer Buick/Lexus ride out of the Genesis but it is very close in feel to an Infiniti M...I've driven most of the cars above at least once (except the S80, 9-5 and STS but those are not competitive in this class)...Without a doubt the Genesis is best overall value - all things being equal (price not taken into acct) I'd rank them: 1) Infiniti M 2) 5 Series 3) Genesis 4) A6 5) GS and 6) RL
It is a game changer...If you don't thing so, drive it and you will...

— klossfam (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 9:33:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

but from WHOM?

— emcgrath (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 10:10:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Ford, GM and Chrysler!

— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 10:13:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11

An interesting commentary...You might find this of interest:

'CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington .

The findings are as follows.....

1. Ford- $10 million to American Red Cross matchi n g employee contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response ! team se rvices and office space to displaced government employees.

2. GM- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the sam e number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.

3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of the Sept. 11 attack.

4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million an d 30 new motorcycles to the
New York Police Dept.

5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation,
funded initial with $2 million , for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC.

6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.

7. Audi- Nothing.

8. BMW- Nothing.

9. Daewoo- Nothing.

10. Fiat- Nothing.

11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in
August 2001

12. Isuzu- Nothing .

1 3. Mitsubis hi- Nothing .

14. Nissan- Nothing .

15. Porsche- Nothing . Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.

16. Subaru- Nothing .

17. Suzuki- Nothing .

18. Toyota- Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001.


Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company. Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States ... It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their attention..

— bestofallcad (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 10:22:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -8   

bestofallcad,
That's a bit simplistic.

True most didn't give money, but how many factories did Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai build in the US since then? How many did the big 3 close and move overseas? The Suburban ESV and high end trucks are built in Mexico now. About 1/2 of the new Chevy's are rebadged Korean manufactured cars.
Chrysler is looking at importing rebadged Chinese cars.

As for the articles, I'd say a crap economy stole all the sales from everyone.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 10:45:10 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

They are stealing sales by people who have not actually driven or owned what they think is the competition.

Anyone who has driven a Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes and also a Genesis knows that they are not competitors.

People that think they are competitors but dont know the difference are Genesis buyers. More of that as seen on TV thing.

— SteedPub (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 11:24:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4   

Actually the correct question should be: "The Genesis is stealing sales, but from WHOM?"

— grysko (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2008 11:40:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

the monthly sales gains from july to november was a mere 532 units. over that same period, the S lost almost 1600, the GS about 600, the sts about 550, and the a6 about 800 units.

july may've been just a ramp up (or less than full) month, and if you start from august, the genesis was actually DOWN 26 units. and everybody else except volvo was DOWN too, even more drastically.

bottom line: EVERYBODY was down; the genesis had relatively little effect. it likely DID have SOME effect. it's just not possible to QUANTIFY it against any given competing model.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2008 3:07:14 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

You need to take into account that some of the cars are in their last year of production like the E class and 5 series, so it is something normal for their sales to be down. I think the Genesis is creating its own sales, or perhaps from the people who buy base models of each car, and value orientated people.

— M53R (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2008 5:10:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5   

OF COURSE IT'S LEXUS! I mean, how dare anybody compare h
Hyundai to the almighty German powerhouses!!

Christ, how may times have we gone over the questionable materials and overall reliability of BMW and MB (esp. out of warranty)at least up to their mid-level models, yet when you try to lump a Japanese or Koream company into the mix suddenly all of that is irrelevant or forgotten!

The hypocrisy on this site is ridiculous and laughable.

— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2008 8:43:14 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

The fallacy in this inane argument is...

The Hyundai Genisis isn't STEALING sales from anything, it's EARNING them from buyers who have long grown tired of paying exorbitant amounts of money for the name/emblem/image of too many other over-hyped/over-priced luxury vehicles...

These are consumers who not only recognize that a truly modern luxury vehicle's asking price should be directly proportional to its discernible attributes, but are acting upon said fact.

Good for Hyundai, and even better for the smart consumer!

— DaHarder (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2008 11:25:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 14   

These number say nothing at all

— BMW_DRVR (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2008 5:56:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6   

im not sure who there stealing from but those marketing guys keep me ROTF

faster then an boxter...FACT
out handle/corners the E550, 550i and the GS460...FACT
size like an 7
performance of 5
price like 3....THINK ABOUT IT

— Denali (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2008 8:34:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Sales are only 5000 cars, or 100 per state on average. Rarer than a VW Phaeton. But its new, so give it time. Even longer in "a conservative county" where it won't hold badge appeal.

— DieselRules (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2008 11:35:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

That's weird, I just saw Bigfoot driving one with Elvis riding shotgun.

— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 12/5/2008 3:03:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1