39 Votes

The Luxury Car Brand Nobody Knows

Agent009 submitted on 10/23/2006 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 4:20:23 PM

111 user comments | Category: Spy Shots | Source: | SOURCE: www.cnn.com

Tag Link: Audi

The U.

S. luxury car market has been a bonanza for Mercedes and BMW as they have motored from one sales record to another. But the third German luxury brand, Audi, keeps making detours. Despite its backing by corporate parent Volkswagen, pioneering engineering developments like all-wheel drive and a strong performance elsewhere around the world, its stop-and-go efforts have caused it to get lost in the shuffle. Audi has lost money in the U.S. for years.

The automaker has missed opportunity upon opportunity in the U.S. As long ago as 1975, it sold more than 50,000 cars here but 25 years later it had only gotten to 65,000. Lexus, by comparison, didn't get started until 1989 and today is selling around 300,000 vehicles a year. Audi has suffered revolving door management, inconsistent marketing and inattention to customer needs. While Lexus gets nearly half its sales from SUVs, Audi didn't get around to selling one, the Q7, until this year.

For all its shortcomings in the U.S., Audi performs strongly elsewhere. Its brand is strong in Europe, where Audi's are seen as equals in image and performance to its better-known competitors and command similar prices. Audi has also moved aggressively overseas and has become the most popular luxury car in China. Overall, the company expects to sell 890,000 cars this year and is aiming for 1.4 million by 2015 - a position from which it might be able to claim luxury car leadership.

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— Agent009 (View Profile)

User Comments

How is Audi going to claim leadership with 1.4 million in 2015 when BMW and Merc are already over 1 million in 2006, does Audi and it's supporters think either one is going to roll over and die? I know alot of people here love Audi, it's a very good vehicle, but lets face some facts untill they can improve weight disturbution closer to 50/50, learn what steering feel is, improve ride and handling, and make a engine (besides the 4.2 V8) thats has some life to it BMW and Merc will continue to sell more and be better cars. When we all start comparing BMW/Merc to Audi then you Audi fans can talk. The A4 is a pig this car plows so much you could move snow with it, the A6 rides awful I think it's broke a hip, and the Q7 old before it's time Darth Vedader wants is helmet back. Only the A8 is really any good as long as you drive like a Luxury limo car. I've never drivin a vehicle that hates corners this much. New TT hairdessers car Porsche/Piech will never let it really compete.
— adoptgreyhounds (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 4:56:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Greyhond,

Audi does not need to build cars with 50/50 weight distribution or a RWD setup (well, for most models). Their niche is luxury AWD cars - especially in the US. Most Euro Audi's are FWD, but that's not the issue here.

I wouldn't mind an Audi. They've got great designs etc. and to me, they've got appeal. I do think that overall, they lag behind a bit in overall performance compared to BMW or Mercedes, but I'm not a performance freak so that doesn't matter to me.

Also, I think many Americans still think of Audi as "unsafe" thanks to that trollish episode of "60 Minutes" in the 1980s where they tore apart the Audi 5000 for a supposed "unwanted gas pedal acceleration" issue. What a shame.

Oh, and I have since stopped watching "60 Minutes". :p
— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:45:28 PM | | Votes: 1

Largest Pile Of Cow Dung I have heard from One Post.
— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:46:23 PM | | Votes: -2

Should be adoptCows considering your level of expertise on its excrement.
— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:49:08 PM | | Votes: -1

Wasn't this posted 5 or 6 times already?
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 7:28:22 PM | | Votes: -9

"but lets face some facts untill they can improve weight disturbution closer to 50/50, learn what steering feel is, improve ride and handling, and make a engine (besides the 4.2 V8) thats has some life to it BMW and Merc will continue to sell more and be better cars."

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong a fourth time.

1. The new modular platform, that will be introduced on the A5 coupe early 2007, will supposedly have a near-perfect 50/50 weight distribution. BMW touts this in all of its ads- but really, it doesn't make much of a difference.

2. Steering feel? Don't even talk. The new R8 will have better handling than any BMW on the market right now- it's a true supercar, as opposed to BMW's "flagship" GT coupe.

3. I already adressed handling. And ride? Do you mean it's too stiff, or too soft? Because my car's pretty neutral.

4. The 2.0T four-banger is a lot more fun than any small engine BMW or Merc have ever produced. It also can propel the "entry-level" A3 DSG from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds, which leaves the 3.2 quattro no purpose except bragging rights. It's only 0.3 seconds quicker.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 10:34:26 PM | | Votes: 2

"Audi: The luxury car brand nobody knows" wow that's pretty harsh. Extensive marketing will help (you know like Lexus does), if your customer base doesn't know who you are then you better educate them or shut your doors.
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 4:59:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

adoptgreyhounds have you seen the Audi R8? Probably not......
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:01:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

Not only have I seen it I've driven one it will be nomore once Piech/Porsche control the group. It drives to much like a lambo which isn't bad just not good enough to beat a 911 4s sorry. Just a machine with no soul.
— adoptgreyhounds (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:04:20 PM | | Votes: -2

You've Driven The R8 ????

HMM!!!!!!!!!!

B*** S*** Radar Bleeping
— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:43:18 PM | | Votes: 0

195speed- unlike most of you I am a member of the press and a professional driver. And untill the embargoes are lifted I can't write anymore.
— adoptgreyhounds (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 6:07:40 PM | | Votes: 1

"unlike most of you I am a member of the press and a professional driver. And untill the embargoes are lifted I can't write anymore."

BS meter is way off the scale...especially for the things coming out of his/her mouth.
— Mark (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:46:33 AM | | Votes: 2

Daaaaaam~!
— tecnopolis (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:02:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

maybe they should stop their heavy reliance on turbos from their parent company and start utilising their brains. turbos are like cheating horsepower any tom dick and harry can do that! And BTW your interiors are nice but overatted
— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:03:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

heavy reliance? are you aware that audi only has one 2.0 inline 4 turbo engine in production right now? I wouldn't call that heavy reliance, considering BMW also currently has the twin turbo in the 335i and AMG is known for their reliance on the supercharger.

audi has moved away from using a lot of forced induction...the only other FI engine planned will be for the RS6, and twin turbo or not, it will be faster than any other performance sedan on the market.
— NARunner (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 6:27:50 PM | | Votes: 1

Audi interiors are not overrated, unlike Lexus. The A6 and A8 interiors are the most beautiful car interiors under $100K- and there's virtually no argument against that. Have you ever seen an Amaretto A8L interior? Unbelievably beautiful.

And yes, the only turbocharged engine in Audi's lineup right now (in the US market) is the 2.0T. BMW is equal to Audi in this regard, with their 3.0 twin-turbo inline six. It's not like turbos are a bad thing, or an unfair advantage. If Audi can squeeze 420hp out of a naturally-aspirated 4.2 liter V8 that they've used since 1996, they can do most anything.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 10:37:13 PM | | Votes: 4

You know Audi just started their own Euro delivery. I posted an article here, but it never showed up???
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:05:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I believe it was a few months ago that it came over here Kart, then again I could be off by a few.
— Mark (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:48:33 AM | | Votes: 2

Audi automobiles were crashing in home garages in the 1980’s. This was due to an accelerator pedal defect. Audi committed initially the ultimate crime in the auto industry; arrogance, blaming the drivers. Some lawsuits were paid, the harm was done, is not just knowledge, is resentment still present today.
— topneuro (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:07:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

The 80's were a long time ago. Lack of advertisement is the real problem here. Look at the number of VW ads, it won't hurt Audi to establish itself by advertisement. I mean they aren't exactly famous like MB and BMW.
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:54:56 PM | | Votes: 1

dare I say that AUDI is bit of an underachiever. I personally dont see a need for them. The problem is that VW's have become so good that AUDI's are pointless,there is always a VW equivalent of its luxury sibling,basically rebadging & a cosmetic difference
— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:13:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Concerning the amount of luxury and performance VW is capable of really hurts Audi sales. KeyserSoze you are right. Not that I am saying that Audi's are rebadged VW's or anything - I am saying that VW's are a good replacement for Audi, which isn't a good thing if you are VAG. Your company should take away sales from others not your brothers ;).
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:44:06 PM | | Votes: 0

Keyser- not everyone can see quality. There is still a Sizler at $30 for even though Flemings will cost you $100+ for a good meal. enjoy your Kmart, Sisler, Red lobster, VW life. Some of us want better.
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 7:32:19 PM | | Votes: -5

"And quite frankly, Volkswagen has mre cache here in America than Audi."

People can be so blind!

Of course everyone knows that Audi is a luxury brand and VW isn't!

I mean seriously, would you rather have a Phaeton or an A8L?

Oh, I probably shouldn't have asked that question... Will likes driving boats on the road, like the 5200lb Phaeton (cough-cough-LS430).

There isn't one VW out there right now that truly competes with an Audi cousin, except the GTI vs. A3. That's a toughie. You could go with the VW for its cooler wheels (even when S-Line is available on the A3 this year), or you could slap down the extra $3K for four-rings cachet.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 10:41:03 PM | | Votes: 1

Will - You are off balance with your analysis. The Golf is no where near the TT. And the Jetta is not even close to the A4. I haven't even seen a magazine or auto show that backs you up, and I've even driven both and can tell you.

Now no, I am not a professional driver but I like the rest of us can tell the difference in two cars. They ride differently and the driving is on a much higher and sporty level with Audi.

We could of had this conversation years ago when Lexus was nothing but a horrible leather'd up Toyota and a bad one at that. Now, they've gotten someplace.
— Mark (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:55:28 AM | | Votes: -1

Comparing all those cars to their Audi non-counterparts (the only cars you mentioned that shared platforms were the TT and Golf, and very loosely, I may add) is like comparing your sacred Lexus models to their actual Toyota platform mates. In fact, it's more ignorant than that.

The A6 starts at $20K more than the Passat. Close in size, maybe, but not in content or quality. That's like saying the Avalon is close the LS460 because they're both smooth riding large sedans.

A4 is larger than the Jetta, and whoever buys a $30K GLI has lost their mind. The same engined is offered in a $29K, better-looking, better-riding, more luxurious Audi!

The Phaeton is no longer on sale here, and that's precisely because Americans are so image-conscious, so it makes no difference that they offered it.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:26:41 PM | | Votes: 0

"Will Audi do better this time? Perhaps. But it still maintains some vestige of German know-it-all arrogance that doesn't serve it well. When talking about alternative fuels in a meeting with journalists in New York, Ralph Weyler, head of Audi's marketing and sales, declared that "this hybrid thing is a hype" and then in the next breath added that Audi would be introducing hybrid powertrains to satisfy the whims of its American buyers."

Things like this doesn't help. Calling hybrids stupid and then saying that we are going to sell them too. What a dumbass. What does he think he's doing us a favor or something???
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:34:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Let them do so! even if my intentions are not to offend anyone but its a fact!
— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:34:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

You are forgetting power difference KeyserSoze. No Volkswagen can propel you from 0-60 in 4.3 seconds and lap the Nurburgring in under 8 minutes.

You think once Porsche takes control of the group the R8 will no longer exist. You are a fool for thinking this way. Porsche only owns 25% of Volkswagen at this point and Audi owns Lamborghini.

The Gallardo will be getting an increae to 600 horsepower to make rooom for the R8 with V10.

If you think the C4S has more soul than a Gallardo you obviously haven't driven the Gallardo or the R8. Stop lying greyhounds, as no one, not even a single journalist has driven the R8 yet.

Your making up the stupid statement that the R8 drives like a Gallardo and if it drives anything like a Gallardo it will be a smashing hit and will be better than the Porsche hands-down.

The only thing better than the Gallardo is the F430 which comes in right around the $175,000 mark.

If the R8 which will cost in the $125,000 range for V10 and $100,000 range for V8 drives anything like the $165,000+ Gallardo, Audi will have a clear winner on their hands to take down the 911.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:35:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

GermanNut you are right, no VW can do that now. Simply VW now is eating lower end Audi sales. There's no match for RS4 or R8, etc obviously.
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:52:19 PM | | Votes: 0

Word to the press is Piech's plans are taking shape as we write this. Oh and some of the press has drivin it. And the Gallardo is not all that good, but I do prefer Ferrari so I'm a little biased on that one.
— adoptgreyhounds (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 6:14:02 PM | | Votes: 1

I'm suprised the haters don't mention the links to Skoda more often.
— matt635 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 5:53:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

The Luxury Car Brand Nobody Knows is Audi???

I would say it's Lexus with all their rebadged Toyotas and Scions.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 6:04:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

Haha - very funny :|.
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 7:24:45 PM | | Votes: -1

The Luxury Car Brand Nobody Knows is Audi???

I would say it's Lexus with all their rebadged Toyotas and Scions.

=======================================================

actually lexus is the car brand that noone wnats to know about :) BIIIIIG difference
— luvmybmr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 6:08:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

Some of the press has driven it. Well greyhound there are no reviews published at this time. You haven't driven the car unless you are a journalist yourself and if you are you can't afford the R8 let alone the Gallardo or F430.

The Gallardo is not all that good compared to what??? The Ferrari F430, yeah of course it's not.

Then again, more people will say the Gallardo design looks more striking than the F430 and when buying in that price range and for the purpose of attracting attention, the Gallardo will win.

If you want to buy for attention purposes, the Gallardo wins.

If you want to buy for driving purposes the Ferrari F430 is the winner.

Oh yeah one more thing, Porsche will never own Volkswagen more than 49.999%.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 6:18:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -9

When the embargoes lift soon you'll see reviews probley 2months out maybe 3. I believe Car has rights to publish first. Not all journalist are poor. Besides writing and testing cars I own two company's. I would wager that the Lower Saxony will sell out it's stake in VAG pretty quickly once Porsche holdings group make the right offer. Actually if you want a little more insight Car has a pretty good article on the subject.
— adoptgreyhounds (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 6:28:26 PM | | Votes: 2

Is there any way possible to curb or remove these silly Audi/BMW/Lexus article posts?

Since its change in format, Autospies has been down on content and more on flaming. Sad, really.
— UPshift (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 6:39:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I wouldn't call selling almost 900,000 cars annually world-wide being an unknown.

Maybe an unknown in the U.S. when compared to Lexus, MB and BMW.

At the same time Lexus is an unknown when compared to BMW, MB and Audi when looked at world-wide.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 6:55:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -11

Did you read the article? It was clear that the author was talking about Audi in the US and not the world. Also the author did mention that Audi is successful in other parts of the world.

Why is it that you guys always have to drag Lexus into it. Lexus isn't successful in the World, so - that won't help Audi sales neither does it justify the lack of sales Audi faces in the US. I know you just need to hide your insecurity by attacking another brand right???
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 7:20:37 PM | | Votes: 0

Well, thanks to those cheating morons @ 60 minutes, Audi sales went down for a while. Today the product is excellent but Audi does need to advertise it a lot more. Create an image.
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 7:16:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -8

No problems with products at all. The engineering department is doing a good job. Need to fire the marketing executives for sure.
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 7:23:19 PM | | Votes: 1

Does the truth hurt? The 60 minutes morons made everything up.

"60 Minutes," in one of journalism's most shameful hours, gave air time in November 1986 to a selfstyled expert who drilled a hole in an Audi transmission and pumped in air at high pressure. Viewers didn't see the drill or the pump—just the doctored car blasting off like a rocket.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cjm_18.htm
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 8:29:46 PM | | Votes: -7

Slam the Q7 to the ground, put 22" chrome wheels on it, remove all the luxury and technology, drop in the Gallardo power plant, and sell it for $45k. That's what American's want.

adoptgreyhounds-For a person that owns two companies and drives exotic cars frequently you sure have a lot of free time to post. ;) And for a journalist, your writing is sloppy.
— CBR2200 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 7:29:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

My companies are doing well, sometimes you get lucky with the people you hire. Really driving cars does not take all that much time it's more of a fun hobby for me. I'm surprised you did not mention my spelling man it's worst. My wifes an editor so when I write for a company or magazine she looks it over first, here I just type away for fun no need to bother her.
— adoptgreyhounds (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 7:48:43 PM | | Votes: 0

It's sad but your right about the Q7.
— adoptgreyhounds (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 7:57:04 PM | | Votes: -1

The trush is inside. Click.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cjm_18.htm
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 9:04:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -8

I obviously meant truth. But it is still inside.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cjm_18.htm
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 9:05:26 PM | | Votes: -8

I would not buy an AUDI due to the fact that they all look the same!!!I'll stick to Lexus..
— 2JZSoarer (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 9:10:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

They do?

Really?
— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 5:07:44 AM | | Votes: -2

It seems that people wish to cover up the truth.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cjm_18.htm
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 9:23:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Audi = A poor man's BMW.
Lexus = A poor man's MERCEDES-BENZ

Luxury Car market snapshot:

Contenders = MERCEDES-BENZ & BMW
Pretenders = Audi & Lexus

With Mercedes once again concentrating on quality & BMW no longer handicapped by Bangle designs, it will be tough going for Audi & Lexus.
— mbrules (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 9:23:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

"Audi = A poor man's BMW.
Lexus = A poor man's MERCEDES-BENZ"

Hmph. Totally poor! Audi vs. BMW? Probably a whopping THREE THOUSAND DOLLAR difference in price! Oh, no, I'm poor! I got the $64K S4 instead of the $66K M3!

The same with Lexus, except LS vs. S-Class.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 10:47:18 PM | | Votes: -2

Someone is going around and putting down everyone's posts for no reason... morons.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 10:48:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

Wilco, 99% of Autospies is made up of FANBOYS. If you say something like:

"The BMW 550i is 0.1 seconds slower to 60 than the Lexus GS"

They instantly feel offended. It's sad really. You can't really have intelligent discussions here without some troll / fanboy being offended about a statement. :(
— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 5:06:48 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Audi, the luxury car brand nobody knows

I've never heard of it before
— aefsc430 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 9:34:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Mbrules is the one who will believe anything the three-pointed star throws in his face.

Contenders: Audi, Lexus, BMW, Mercedes-Benz.

Pretender: MBrules
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 9:38:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

I think plenty of people "know" about Audi, they just don't want them. And whomever made the initial comment about VWs being very expensive for their price ranges was dead on, the Phaeton, Touraeg, Passat, they're all a bit too pricey for a brand that once produced "The People's Car."

This is no "flame", just an observation...
— Anthony (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 10:09:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

I think the problem for VAG group is that, there is no CLEAR product segmentation for each brand. For example, Mercedes has Maybach for its high end customers and it is clear where they target the markets for the two brands. BMW owns RR for the same respect and has Mini that will cater customers on small cars segment.

On the other hand, SOME of Audi cars compete with VW cars for the same segment, and for other categories, Audi is being crowded with its sister-brands. For example, A8 is a direct competitor with Phaeton, Q7 (although has 7 seats) can be put in the same category with Touareg and Chayenne. Audi TT can be a direct competitor for Porsche Boxters, and now the R8 competes with the like of Porsche 911s or Lamborghinis.

Don’t get me wrong, they are great cars and they are definitely great brands. However, when you’re talking about marketing wise, it is hard enough when you have to compete with other groups, and now you have to compete with your sister brands. I believe this is the thing that confuses your audiences, and unless you straighten things up amongst the brands, marketing wise to attract more customers will be as hard as hell..
— sulev (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 10:33:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

Dead-on. They're all amazing cars, though.

VW Group rivalries:

Audi A3 2.0T vs. VW GTI

VW Passat vs. Skoda Superb

VW Golf vs. SEAT Leon

Audi TT 3.2 vs. Porsche Boxster / Cayman

VW Touareg vs. Audi Q7 vs. Porsche Cayenne

Audi A8 vs. VW Phaeton

Lamborghini LP640 vs. Bugatti Veyron

Porsche 911 Turbo vs. Audi R8 vs. Lamborghini Gallardo

Bentley Continental GT vs. All Cars Above (more luxurious but still very fast)

Porsche Panamera vs. Audi S7 / RS7

VW Scirocco vs. Audi A5 coupe

Audi A4 2.0T vs. VW GLI (although A4 is far more upscale, and on a diff. platform)

Etc, etc, etc.

The list goes far on. Almost never-ending.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 10:53:47 PM | | Votes: -5

Will - It was a mistake to mark Lexus as pretenders. Unlike Audi they have a clear philosophy when they design their cars, that is Luxury, workmanship and customer Service. They have snapped the Germans out of their lazy attitude of the past. Currently, I rate them just behind MB & BMW and way ahead of Audi.

AUDI THOUGH IS A WANNABE BMW and hence a poor man's BMW.
— mbrules (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 10:50:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

You are a wannabe logical, my poor friend.

It's funny... Audi is the world's third most powerful premium brand, and backed by a brand more powerful than both the BMW Group and DaimlerChrysler (but not Toyota).

I laugh at your "poor man's BMW" post.

Audi A4: $28.5K base; BMW 3 Series: $30K base. $1.5K difference.

Audi A6: $42K base; BMW 5 Series: $44K base. $2K difference.

Audi Q7: $39K base; new BMW X5: $42K base. $3K difference.

Audi A8: $68.5K base; BMW 7 Series: $70K base. $1.5K difference.

Audi RS4: $66K base; BMW M3: $48K base.

Last-gen Audi RS6: $88K base; new BMW M5: $82K base.

Audi R8, est. $105K base; BMW M6: $100K base.

And I'm still laughing.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 10:58:09 PM | | Votes: -4

Audi is not a wannabe BMW. In fact, Audi does not even aim to be BMW. Audi has a clear defined mission statement. Do some research before putting out this bullshit.
— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 10:46:35 AM | | Votes: 2

I consider Audi ahead of Lexus becaue Audi sells more cars world-wide annually when compared to Lexus.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 11:27:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

Sure, but VW has some very formidable assets:

Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT, Skoda, Volkswagen

It is also the most powerful car manufacturer in Europe, but that goes without saying. I'd much rather take pride in my work and create truly well-engineered products than make billions of dollars and create lifeless products. Although VW makes billions, every one of their brands are far from lifeless.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:32:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I don't know why I waste my time reading any of the comments on any article on this site. It's the same stuff on every article. BMW is the best, no it's Lexus, but Audi's AWD, but this that the other thing. Is it possible to discuss articles that mean something? This article is a joke. No one is ever going to convince a Boston Red Sox fan that they actually suck and the Yankees are the best team in baseball, and no one is going to convince a Yankees fan that their payroll is ridiculous at 200 Million compared to Florida's 15 million. Is it possible to appreciate that all 4 of the major players in the luxury market drive each other, providing, in the end, a better product on each dealership's floor for the customer. Talk about technology and how one company is making bold moves into new areas. Seriously, have we all had enough of the "my car is cooler than your car" discussion yet?

It's really ok to have likes and dislikes about any brand you want. The sun will come up tomorrow if someone doesn't like your prefered brand.
— justinT (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 11:33:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

justinT - I agree with you 100% on everything you said. Previously I used to only read the stories and never the comments.

I will now go back to my previous practice - no more reading comments and no more posting.

Have fun guys.
— mbrules (View Profile)

Posted on 10/23/2006 11:46:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

As per the article, I think that if Audi improves their build quality, they might have a chance by 2015, but the way they are currently going..... I dont think so. It is one thing to be a luxury car brand, it is another to be a quality brand. People like quality.
— SpikeM5 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 5:05:54 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

I believe Audi's Philosophy or direction is not so clear.Unlike BMW and Lexus who knows what they r doing/making and what kind of coustomers and response they r looking for.
BMW :shear driving pleasure or Ultimate driving machine.So it's clear that they r focusing more on driving thing,handling and coustomer's pleasure...etc

Lexus:Relentless persuit of Perfection.They want perfection in all the areas like Luxury,quality,relibility,Highest and high end technology coustomer care and satisfication...etc

What is Audi doing,Where is it heading,What kind of coustomers r they looking for ???

As a former owner of Audi,not really i bought an ABT version of RS6.It was clear in my mind that i am mostly looking at the Sports side of the Car.
It was like 70% Sportiness,20% Luxury and 10% the practicality of a sedan's 4 doors.

Same goes with my new buy,the BMW M5.For the same reasons i bought it.70% Sportiness,20% Luxury and 10% the practicality of a sedan's 4 doors.

JUGNU----->THE CARMAN
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:17:27 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

This post makes no sense at all.

Audi's main forte is technology. They create countless new systems that are accepted in the automobile industry every year. Sportiness comes second, and luxury, third. The rest follow distantly.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:35:08 PM | | Votes: 1

This whole thread is useless and pointless. I am just really getting sick and tired of Audi is pointless, BMW is the best, MB is the fastest, etc...

009, your going to start swimming with GermanNut here shortly. Keep posting more things like this and people are just not going to give you an ounce of credit.

Start posting things that are true. Please?
— Mark (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 7:20:45 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

My recent observation that past year while being stationed here in Germany.
As far as the luxury brand I see on the autobahns/city streets.
1. Audi
2. Merc Benz (close 2nd)
3. BMW (distant 3rd)

Maybe the germans know something we don't. But you know, if I we're to spend $45K+ i'll probably still buy a Merc or bmw.
— Sam1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 9:45:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Every article, every post on this site is about opionions. Sam1, that's an observation you made in the area you were stationed, and you're probably right.

But just because you see more Audi cars than the other three, that doesn't make them better or more luxurious. I see a lot more Ford Taurus and Tempos than I do Maybach. Those three brands are manufactured in three different areas of the country and each area has a stronger hold on those areas. Just like sports fans, there tends to be more fans of the closest team. In Bavaria, BMW is the only car to be seen in because it's where BMW is headquartered.

I have heard from several people in different areas of the country that the ultimate status symbol is the M5 touring. That doesn't mean that it is, it's just what I've heard, as in, it was an opinion of several German people.
— justinT (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 10:02:30 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

late to this post, but obviously agree with adoptgreyhounds. audi will never be a match, as hard as it tries. Beem and merc are already thinking of next gen.
— AmazingBimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 2:23:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

s4...

The recent mcKinsey study I mentioned on global and NA brands predicts audi is 10-14 years behind brand power and success behind BMW and Benz (Assuming BMW and MB do nothing!!, which they wont!!). No way audi catches the big 2. in fact the gap is predicted to get wider. in the north american study, audi was tier 4.
— AmazingBimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 2:35:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

You are an idiot. You are really trying to hard to be logical. It's cracking me up.

"Oh, but no, the big newspeople told me it's right, so it has to be right! BMW has to be the best at everything!"

For shame.

If Audi can sell over a million cars a year, I wouldn't discount them as a brand. They'll be selling 1,000,000+ by 2008.

And did it ever dawn on you that, in the US, BMW and Mercedes-Benz sales are based largely on the X5 and E-Class? The 3 Series and ML are close, but far. Audi has not had an SUV. BMW has had two. In car sales, I would say Audi isn't far behind.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:38:47 PM | | Votes: 1

AGAIN, I don't think Audi aims to be BMW or MB. They're always portrayed as being an inbetween brand. Offering the best from both BMW (sport) and Mercedes (luxury).

Audi naturally wants to be the worlds leading luxury brand, like every other luxury brand, but they seem to want to do it THEIR WAY with their philosophy. Not BMW's, not Mercedes', not Lexus' etc.

And claiming that "Audi will never be a match..." is being a bit ignorant AmazingBimmer. ;)
— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 3:12:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Thank you.

(Applause)
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:39:39 PM | | Votes: 1

How is that nobody knows it ?!
What BS.

The author is unaware that outside the USA Audi sold about ~750 000 cars last year vs. Lexus 90 000 cars.

Yet another person who sadly belives USA = the World.
He needs a reality check.
— DarkOneForce (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 4:04:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

I'm late to this post too. I think it's great that this was covered by CNN. Do you realise how many people visit their website and watch it on tv? Ever heard the saying there's no such thing as bad press? (Not that this was a necessarily negative article)The fact that they're talking about AUDI in conjunction with Merc and BMW demonstrates their ability to compete in the luxury segment. It just proves what magazine writers, and Audi owners, have known for years... they may not be the "Ultimate Driving Machine" but they can more than hold their own. They may not always win comparison tests, but they don't finish last in them very often either. Now, if we could get some of the lunkheads on hear to admit that, I think there would be some good discussions about cars and not car brands.
— iown1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 4:41:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Wow this is funny. LOL!
— KeyserSoze (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 5:08:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

bmw.. its not me.. just some of the smartest people inthe world who use data to examine this and similar issues, not subjective opions like all of us (including me) use.
— AmazingBimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 5:27:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

We can't predict how the future of the auto-industry will turn out within the next 10 years AmazingBimmer. We can definitely make educated guesses, but unfortunately our guesses are not free from error.

Just having this discussion, proves that Audi is a competitor to BMW and Mercedes-Benz.

If you people think Audi is not a competitor why do you keep mentioning it?

If it was such a poor man's BMW, or poorly engineered car why do you have to keep reminding people who think otherwise. Shouldn't they view Audi in the same way as the pro-BMW lovers on this site?

Why do you have to keep arguing that Audi is not as good as BMW. Why don't you say Infiniti, Saab, Volvo or Cadillac are not as good.

Perhaps it's because in the minds of many Audi is viewed on the same level as Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus and therefore to justify your opinions, you have to continuously bring up Audi in the BMW, MB & Lexus discussions.

How come I don't hear the bashing of Infiniti, Volvo, Saab or Cadillac all over this site, but I hear Audi.

The reason is because we love to bash rivals who develop cars that are similar in price, performance and overall sales as the company we love a.k.a. BMW.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:10:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

GermanNut. I was merely restating some of the deepest comprehensive analysis I have seen on brand positioning and value in the luxury market ever. It wasnt what people thought, it defined tier brands as to what their desireability was on a quanitfied scale. it was very forward looking and had tremendous amounts of data and regression analysis taking into account multiple variables. I accept it as the best I have ever seen. just trust me on this. Audi is not even close (as the data shows).
— AmazingBimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:21:24 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

"Oh, but no, the big newspeople told me it's right, so it has to be right! BMW has to be the best at everything!"

Then please, explain to me where the quite large proportion of Audi fans on this website came from?

Audi as a brand is quite desirable, and I can't think of one thing you can do to persuade me otherwise.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:44:21 PM | | Votes: 0

Especially when my car is able to crush any M3, any time, anywhere. Most M3 drivers are the biggest posers on the road.

That's the difference. BMW, as a brand, has been diluted by yuppies because of their "desirability". Well, I say, that image is a turn-off. On the other hand, Audi S/RS drivers actually know how to DRIVE. And I appreciate my car.
— S4cabriofox (View Profile)

Posted on 10/24/2006 6:46:06 PM | | Votes: 1

oh please, you're going to say, and believe that m3 drivers don't know how to drive becasue they bought bmws? and that s/rs drivers magically know how to drive because they bought audis? Every review i have read and seen says the audi is easier to drive and doesn't let you get as close to the edge of the envelope as the bmw. they're basically saying you can have all this power and handling with the v8 and the awd, but we're going to put training wheels on it because we don't think you can handle it. nice try.
— justinT (View Profile)

Posted on 10/26/2006 11:25:46 AM | | Votes: 1

don't get me wrong, I like the rs/s models. i considered selling one of my bmws to get an audi, but these ridiculous comments that generalize about a brand's customer base and their mentality are just stupid. these are the types of comments that turn every post into a brand war.
— justinT (View Profile)

Posted on 10/26/2006 11:29:21 AM | | Votes: 1

S4,
obviously, you are entitled to your opinion. enjoy how you spend your money. of course cerrain people desire certain brands. nothing wrong with that. BUT FUNDAMENTALLY, a lot more people are willing to pay a lot more for a BMW, and that in general showcases the overall brand strength and desireability. so, if the data is true (it alwasy is) it means that even if you paid less for your audi than a comparable BMW, you still overpaid for it, becasue you saw the value, but in general others are not willing to pay for it. But i like that you bought what your conviction told you to do
— AmazingBimmer (View Profile)

Posted on 10/25/2006 11:28:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

You are too Stupid to be allowed on this site

How many times am I going to tell you that in Europe (Home Continent of the 3 German Auto manufacturers) Audi is Considered above MB & BMW in Luxury or Prestige and with the Sales Growth to prove it.

Everywhere outside of the USA Audi is Considered On-Par with BMW & MB and more people are buying them.

SO SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR STUPID RESEARCH
— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 10/25/2006 2:06:46 PM | | Votes: 1

Sorry Amazingbimmer

Mistook You for Luvmybmr
— I95SPEEDINGTICKETS (View Profile)

Posted on 10/25/2006 2:18:29 PM | | Votes: 1

Sorry I95SPEEDINGTICKETS but you're wrong.

In Europe both in sales and prestige it's MB>BMW>Audi, tough Audi is coming fast from behind. Some consider Audi a classier choice (lower price, more practical vs. BMW and more understated).
— DarkOneForce (View Profile)

Posted on 10/29/2006 5:26:19 AM | | Votes: 1

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