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The New Audi A4 Is Lighter And More Nimble Than Ever Before- Should BMW Be Worried?

Agent001 submitted on 04/06/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 11:24 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[99] user comments | category: Spy News

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Tags: 2009 Audi A4 Avant, BMW

Tag Links: 2009 Audi A4 Avant, BMW

The New Audi A4 Is Lighter And More Nimble Than Ever Before- Should BMW Be Worried?

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S4cabriofoxone - 4/6/2008 11:40:42 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Yes.

And you're making me want one. A lot.

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Agent001 - 4/6/2008 11:43:56 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

The Avant 3.0 TDI I drove was awesome!

001

Chip - 4/7/2008 2:23:24 AM

+2 Boost

S4, you honestly think BMW should be worried?

You think Audi can suddenly generate a ton of sales from a new A4 sedan that looks similar to the previous one, and a Avant Wagon that, while stunningly gorgeous, wont find many sales over here.

As much improved as this new A4 is, I doubt it can touch the 3-series loyal following and unbeatable reputation. The 3-series sales have been off the charts for years, Audi will need a lot more time to reach that level. Just my opinion.

henbmw - 4/7/2008 9:12:03 AM

+7 Boost

BMW does need to catch up on its sedans exterior styling. This new Audi looks wayyyy better...

BMW4me4ever - 4/7/2008 10:39:52 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

henbmw ... BMW is getting a freshen up of the 3-series in the fall of 2008. Also the 3.0 TT Diesel is due to arrive.

Kraut_god - 4/7/2008 12:41:31 PM

+2 Boost

I think they need to concentrate on the blandness of their designs.

germanautoaddict - 4/9/2008 10:05:22 AM

+2 Boost

The Germans know how to build a car.

henbmw - 4/9/2008 7:20:25 PM

-1 Boost

If last gen's refreshes are any indication, dramatic changes will not happen. The 3-series sedan needs some design changes rather than updated bumpers and wheels

huu76 - 4/7/2008 12:14:57 AM

-7 Boost

BMW doesn't need to worry, their customers never get beyond the badge to even notice that there's a car attached to it.

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gooch - 4/7/2008 10:23:50 AM

+7 Boost

The car's performance makes the badge.

enthusiastx11 - 4/7/2008 10:29:56 AM

+5 Boost

huu:

and how do you think the badge won so much respect?

years and years of stellar performance cars.

you're a very jealous little man.

bmwdrvr - 4/7/2008 12:15:46 AM

+4 Boost

if the steering effort is anything like the A5 certainly not, it steered like a Buick, and im not sure why the A5/S5 didnt get the interior from the sedan it appears to be more richer, and more expensive than the coupe yet im sure the coupe will be more money. That and this A4 really looks alot like the old one, i think the biggest thing that will help audi is its new larger size, and if some are fond of its looks, otherwise i dont see much reason to get one, same engines as last year, predictable styling

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Chip - 4/7/2008 2:34:22 AM

+2 Boost

Exactly, and why buy a car thats BMW-like, when you can just buy a BMW.

Besides, the original is always better than a copy.

S4cabriofoxone - 4/7/2008 5:04:12 PMView My AgentSpace

-5 Boost

Who says this is a "copy?" Low blow.

A4 buyers are generally quite different from 3 Series buyers. Obviously, both can survive in the same market, because over 4,000 people bought the aging B7 A4 last month. So, those people bought the "copy" instead of the "real thing."

Chip - 4/7/2008 5:32:00 PM

+4 Boost

"A4 buyers are generally quite different from 3 Series buyers"

I agree, then why would A4 buyers want their cars to drive like BMW's?

001 says the car is BMW-like, which I think is stupid. Audi should develop their own unique identity rather than trying to engineer their cars to behave like others.

And S4, you never answered my question above. Do you honestly think BMW should be worried? I would really like to know your opinion.

S4cabriofoxone - 4/9/2008 8:24:58 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

It depends.

In sales, I think so. The new A4 will catch people by surprise--some great engine choices (except the 3.2), great looks and a top-notch interior. It certainly won't top the 3 in sales, but it will make the gap smaller.

In overall dominance, no. The 3 Series is incredibly competent in every way. I personally thought I would buy a 3 over the competition without a second thought, but now the A4 2.0T with 260lb ft, A4 3.0TDI and S4 with 330hp are making me think twice.

Agent001 - 4/7/2008 12:18:32 AMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

I agree...the coupe is gorgeous and I like the looks of the Avant better than the sedan.

The sedan looks too much like the old one.

001

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no1listensanyway - 4/7/2008 12:20:25 AM

Show Comment -17 Boost

Nope, the BMW 3 is the Camry of the luxury world.

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Heyhuub - 4/7/2008 2:43:19 AM

-6 Boost

It was BMW who followed Audi with the RS4 / M3

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gooch - 4/7/2008 10:25:56 AM

+6 Boost

Heyhuub -- ???

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enthusiastx11 - 4/7/2008 10:33:23 AM

+7 Boost

hey:

M followed RS.
no.
M cars have been in the states since the 80s.

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S4cabriofoxone - 4/7/2008 5:05:31 PMView My AgentSpace

-6 Boost

I don't think you understood what Heyhuub meant.

When choosing a V8, BMW effectively jumped one class up with the M3. The previous M3 was compared more often with the S4, while the new one is clearly an RS4 competitor. Why? Because BMW followed Audi and offered a V8. And don't try to convince me otherwise.

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911gt2 - 4/7/2008 6:00:23 PM

+6 Boost

oh, I get it!Its similar to how BMW put a V10 in the M5, then Audi put a V10 in s6/rs6.

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Heyhuub - 4/9/2008 5:44:54 AM

-1 Boost

Indeed, or how the 1999 M5 used a V8 where the 1992 S4 4.2, 1994 S6 and 1996 S6 Avant Plus used a V8.

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911gt2 - 4/9/2008 10:23:12 AM

+2 Boost

heck, or how BMW created the M division in 1972 and Audi followed w/ the RS models decades later. "1992 S4 4.2, 1994 S6 and 1996 S6 Avant Plus used a V8." that was before the "horsepower war". Audi used V8s then just so there cars could keep up with BMWs I6.

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Heyhuub - 4/9/2008 2:06:04 PM

-3 Boost

Or how Audi had their first S model in 1969 with the Audi 100 S Coupe

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911gt2 - 4/9/2008 3:06:51 PM

+4 Boost

Or how BMW had CSL versions of their cars in the early 60's. Which are basically pre-M M's, if that makes sense.Also BMW pretty much created the sports sedan segment as we know it right? and isnt that the segment that Audi tries to sell most of their cars in....

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Heyhuub - 4/10/2008 3:01:54 AM

+1 Boost

The first BMW CSL was from 1971, they did have the 2800 CS in 1968 though.

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investor27 - 4/7/2008 12:54:43 AM

0 Boost

Agent 001. Do you mean that the new and larger A4 will be lighter than one it replaces?

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Agent001 - 4/7/2008 1:11:50 AMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

Yes

001

HomberSimslin - 4/7/2008 1:07:34 AM

Show Comment -20 Boost

As long as BMW engines don't overheat during comparo testing out in the hot desert like they have in the past-few people will continue to buy these things.

Also, BMW rebates are very high...which explains that they are going downhill fast. I give them few more years and kaput just like Oldsmobile!

Ferrari Sucks.

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SHOWTIME - 4/7/2008 9:20:05 AM

+3 Boost

U r pretty slow.

EL34 - 4/7/2008 1:10:29 AM

-4 Boost

This Audi is perfect.

I'm sure Lexus will copy the new A4 ;-)

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_43LE - 4/7/2008 10:14:57 AM

+3 Boost

This article is about Audi, why would someone bring up Lexus copying this unless someone's really insecure and has nothing better to say.

Audiphile - 4/7/2008 11:31:57 AM

-2 Boost

EL34,

I agree. The Avant looks gorgeous. Maybe Lexus SHOULD copy the A4.

By the way, your house is stunning. How nice of you to lend it out to Audi for the photo shoot!

lankaat - 4/7/2008 12:53:08 PM

-3 Boost

Sorry, copying is Hyundais job. Lexus just follows.

Guys, V all kno BMW is fine, Audi is just playing catch-up. But Audis getting more serious and in the near future they will be close to where BMW is. Perhaps not in USA, but in the biggest economies in the world. BMWs r way behind over there.

Remember BMW powered the worlds fastest car: the Mclaren F1 back then? Look who powers the best now: VW-Audi-Bugatti

02chuck - 4/7/2008 1:20:03 AM

+2 Boost

I would love to have a 3.0TDI S-line avant. 009 will a DSG type trans be available? That would be really sweet!

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S4cabriofoxone - 4/7/2008 5:06:45 PMView My AgentSpace

-5 Boost

Wow, that sounds like utter perfection. A black A4 3.0TDI S-Line Avant with DSG. 40MPG+ with 0-60 in under six seconds!

S4cabriofoxone - 4/9/2008 8:26:21 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

WTF? What could have possibly been wrong with my statement? Who WOULDN'T want a beautiful wagon with effortless speed, great fuel efficiency, luxury and practicality?

Chip - 4/7/2008 2:10:01 AM

+9 Boost

Why is everything "SHOULD BMW BE WORRIED?"

Can't you tell by now, after all the bullets they've dodged, that the answer is clearly NO!!!!

BMW does not worry, they just build great cars, like they've always done.





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Sunshine1810 - 4/7/2008 2:11:58 AM

+1 Boost

These photo's are beautiful. Audi does make great cars but I don't think BMW has to be overly worried.

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007vehispy1 - 4/7/2008 3:12:15 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Audi makes the best looking wagons period. This is going to be the hottest selling wagon on the market this year- just imagine it in S/RS form now and you have one tempting automobile.

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007vehispy1 - 4/7/2008 3:12:36 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

AMAZING GALLERY.

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MichaelTaylor - 4/7/2008 3:46:22 AM

Show Comment -26 Boost

BMW is already worried because of the Lexus IS350. That car almost singlehandedly ruined BMW's reputation as a maker of "ultimate driving machines". The Audi A4 looks nice but it is generally a luxury slushmobile with AWD and it doesn't do anything well unlike the Lexus IS, BMW 3er and the Infiniti G37.

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M53R - 4/7/2008 6:52:37 AMView My AgentSpace

+12 Boost

You should write a joke book :)

Oh, and please fine one comparo where the IS350 beat the 3 series. If you fine one, tell me.

enthusiastx11 - 4/7/2008 10:34:53 AM

+6 Boost

really michael?

do you have ANY data...ANY number at all...to support your claim?

Designer1 - 4/7/2008 4:43:02 AM

+2 Boost

That's a beautiful place, and oh there's a wagon by the pool, ahh who cares about wagons. ;-)

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truckmen - 4/7/2008 5:25:50 AM

-2 Boost

Looks great! Although I wish Honda made this car!

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lankaat - 4/7/2008 12:57:11 PM

0 Boost

Did u mean Hyundai or Genesis?

1995e34 - 4/7/2008 7:21:50 AM

+4 Boost

no. rwd beats fwd every time.

audi has come a long way over the past 15 years, no doubt. but they still handicap themselves with no rwd. it's cute when subaru does it, but shameful when audi does it.

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amazinBimmer - 4/7/2008 8:26:22 AM

-4 Boost

audi.. catching up to BMW.. hahahaah.

just got back from europe.. amazing.. all the Audis sold are POS a4's with fwd.. no wonder they try to rack up sales.. and MB wouldnnt be anywhere if it werent for the taxis.

BMW is truly well ahead of its competitors.

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gooch - 4/7/2008 10:29:13 AM

+6 Boost

Geez. I own a BMW and even I think you're over the top.

lankaat - 4/7/2008 12:56:12 PM

0 Boost

Yea. only the family versions r Front-wheel. The rest r AWD - thats really good. BMW styling is very poor - Honestly - Sorry BMW fans. But performance is good though

gooch - 4/7/2008 4:23:42 PM

+2 Boost

I don't think BMW styling is "poor," but it has taken some people a lot of time to get used to the Bangle/Hooydonk era (it wasn't just Bangle). Some people get it, some don't. But the cars still deliver the performance people expect of BMW.
Audis are very good-looking cars, and very luxurious inside. They're more known for quattro than anything else -- perhaps they should play that up and become the best all-wheel-drive manufacturer in the world. As far as hanging your hat on something, that's nothing to sneeze at.
I don't think any automaker will be able to "out-BMW" BMW itself.

S4cabriofoxone - 4/7/2008 5:09:29 PMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

That's funny. Last week, I came back from Argentina. I was blown away by how many more Audis are sold than the competition. Tons and tons of A3s, a handful of A4s (although more A6s than A4s) and an adequate amount of A8s and Q7s. I saw just a few 3 Series models, and even less 1 Series cars. Merc was probably second to Audi with the A-Class/B-Class duo. I was surprised by how little BMW sells there. Perhaps it's just in Buenos Aires, but I doubt it.

Heyhuub - 4/8/2008 4:46:34 AM

-4 Boost

BMW is currently the one who sells a 1.6 316i. Audi and Mercedes have a Turbocharged and supercharged 1.8 as a base engine.

Brembo - 4/7/2008 8:27:37 AM

0 Boost

Agent 001!

Who's your traveling agent? That place is beautiful. Let me know where you stayed -hotel package.



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Agent001 - 4/7/2008 11:02:36 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

HOTEL HACIENDA NA XAMENA | IBIZA

001

Brembo - 4/7/2008 12:41:14 PM

0 Boost

Thanks. That might be our summer vacation.

henbmw - 4/7/2008 9:10:26 AM

+3 Boost

BMW certainly needs to catch up with its sedans exterior and interior. I'm not making any predictions, but the 335i is a tough car to top, drivers satisfaction wise.

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AgentOrange - 4/7/2008 9:39:11 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Yah, I'm pretty sure BMW is shaking in its collective boots..

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06STI - 4/7/2008 10:26:04 AM

-1 Boost

Audi one-up's BMW in one area: AWD in all models, including performance models, across the line. This is a big plus to those of us in the snow belt. BMW offers AWD too, but not with their excellent sport suspension (ie 335xi).

Those who live in a more tropical climate would understanably prefer RWD.

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enthusiastx11 - 4/7/2008 10:31:20 AM

+2 Boost

it's great that audi has improved the feel and handling of the A4.

but, unfortunately, the exterior styling, while good looking, simply looks like a refresh of the same car. unlikely to generate much of a spike in sales.

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S4cabriofoxone - 4/7/2008 5:10:31 PMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

I disagree. Wait until you see it in person. It's really a dramatic difference. I find the B7 quite boring in comparison.

S4cabriofoxone - 4/9/2008 8:27:26 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

WHAT THE HELL! It's like, people are de-boosting me right when they see my name! I didn't talk about ANY other car in that statement--just the new A4 vs. the old A4! The new A4 looks way better! That is the truth!

vladyxa - 4/7/2008 10:33:30 AM

+6 Boost

I have to agree with Chip - BMW does not worry, they just build great cars.

And while others try to build a car to get to the same level as BMW, to be comparable to BMW, BMW just keeps making its cars better, and it would be foolish to argue that.

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VISO - 4/7/2008 1:43:59 PM

-7 Boost

Really?! comments like this always crack me up. How do you quantify that BMW builds better cars than Audi or Mercedes-Benz? The criteria depends what you consider more important as a buyer, and handling is subjective at best. One can easily argue that Audi build quality surpasses BMW and so forth back and forth. Please, take a more intelligent road in making such a statement. Also, sales volume does not equal excellence of a model. Sales volume is determined my marketing hype and other related marketing issues. That is why they call them "Markets" after all.

vladyxa - 4/7/2008 2:13:37 PM

+6 Boost

Crack you up, or don't crack you up - that is your personal opition. But ultimately, it is what people think, what experts thinks, what competition thinks. If BMW would not be what it is, the standard, then Lexus fans, would not be so aggressive toward BMW. Then automotive experts would not repeat year after year, that BMW sets many standards for its class.

I'm sure there are witnesses, may be some people even have screenshot of the article, when Lexus posted copy of an artice about IS350 from an auto magazine on its website. The artice was praising IS350 for its features, handling, and so on, but in the last paragraph it said something like "even considering all the great things for the IS, the 3 series still remains the ultimate driving machine. The article lasted about few hours on Lexus' website, and then was removed.

mclaren428 - 4/7/2008 2:42:45 PM

+7 Boost

VISO-Comments like yours always crack me up.You could "quantify" BMW is the best by the fact that a handful of manufactures(Audi included) publicly state that they are trying to compete with BMW in various market segments. Usually when this happens thats a good indicator your product is pretty good. Umm oh yeah steering feel is more or less "subjective". Handling on the other hand is something that can be measured with various tests, which produce data that can be compared with another vehicle.And your last part about "markets" kind of makes no sense, Ill assume you don't know to much about econ/econometrics.In short the consumers are not a zombie mob, adds only go so far. Market leaders are there for a reason.

M35er - 4/7/2008 11:22:51 AM

-2 Boost

I think they should worry. This car is going to bring many into the A4 fold because it's size and interior design is going to be a big advantage for 3 series/c-class/IS potential customers. Ultimately, the BMW will be a better driving car and will still remain the leader, however, this car will gain significant market share in the segment and take some sales away from all of the established players. Given it's size, the a4 may get some customers cross shopping mid-size sports sedans like the 5 series, e class, M, GS, TL, G35, etc. This car will give them the room they need with the upscale design, styling, cachet without the $50-$60k price tag.

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KZ258 - 4/7/2008 11:59:53 AM

+2 Boost

"dare we say, more BMW-like?"

love the drama-punchline...is this car even puttin out 250HP at least? most audi has the weakest engines in their class. to compete with an M3 you need the RS4 or even the damn R8, not the S4. to compete with the 335i you need the S4, not the A4. audi needs to fix this problem. their model lineup is lookin redundant


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S4cabriofoxone - 4/7/2008 5:13:21 PMView My AgentSpace

-5 Boost

The A4 2.0T has 211hp and 258lb ft of torque. Coupled with DSG, expect to average about 25MPG and get from 0-60mph in 6 seconds flat, putting it handily ahead of the 328xi.

The A4 3.2 is the only one that's truly redundant. It has a lame 265hp V6. The new S4 will have a 3.0TT V6 with 330-350hp, and it will still cost less than $50,000. The RS4 will be upped to about 450hp and the price should remain in the $60K range.

I don't know what you meant about the R8. It's a much better driving machine than the M3, but it's also unfair to compare them.

Audiphile - 4/7/2008 12:07:00 PM

-5 Boost

Yes, I do think BMW should worry about the new A4. It looks great inside and out, is roomier and costs less than the 3-series, handles better than the old A4, and has the typical excellent Audi fit, finish, and interior materials and textures.

Mercedes should be worried as well. (The new C-class does nothing for me, and it's cramped inside!) Who knows, maybe Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac and Lincoln should be worried too!

However, Audi will probably worry a bit when the marques mentioned above introduce THEIR new models. I tell you, competition is great for consumers!

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VISO - 4/7/2008 1:39:08 PM

-6 Boost

Agent001, I assume you are referring to US sales specifically. In Europe, the A4 and the 3-Series pretty much run neck to neck with previous years the A4 ahead. With the new A4 in Europe, it is likely that the A4 will regain its sales volume crown again. In the US, no because people tend to conform here to whatever they are told from marketing types and the pro-bias BMW American automotive journalists. But the A4 will increase in sales here no doubt.

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Chip - 4/7/2008 3:49:18 PM

+3 Boost

"In the US, no because people tend to conform here to whatever they are told from marketing types and the pro-bias BMW American automotive journalists."

Actually, you're 100% wrong about that. Most people (myself included) drive the cars they're interested in, and end up buying the car that suits them best. Saying the 3-series massive success is the result of marketing and pro-bias journalists is a total cop-out. I can't believe you don't realize how ridiculous that sounds.

The 3-series has been the benchmark for quite some time and it has to do with the fact that it's such a damn good car. Period.

S4cabriofoxone - 4/7/2008 5:15:09 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Chip, I agree with you... You could say Lexus is popular because of marketing, but BMW? I don't think so.

I love this new A4. It has a ton of potential and I think BMW should be worried, yes. But the 3 Series is popular for a reason.

Chip - 4/7/2008 5:38:00 PM

+6 Boost

"I love this new A4. It has a ton of potential "

I agree S4, its a nice car, but will you at least admit that Audi could have done more. The styling of the sedan is conservative at best, and other than the new turbo 4, they blew it with not offering a big engine. With the aggressive S5, amazing R8, I expected Audi to pack more punch into their most important model.

But saying BMW should be worried? No way.

moto - 4/9/2008 6:53:46 PM

+2 Boost

This whole discussion about "being worried" is ridiculous. Competition is competition, it's always been there. For all practical purposes, Audi and BMW are as evenly matched as Lowes and Home Depot. All this discussion does is reveal each person's bias. Intelligent people realize that both Audi and BMW offer extremely good cars, and they cross-shop them to get the best value for their particular needs. Just because the BMW is better for one driver doesn't mean the Audi isn't a better choice for someone else ... or even a Lexus, or Infiniti, or Acura, or Cadillac. All good in their own ways...

Anthony - 4/7/2008 2:02:37 PM

+2 Boost

Maybe not in this instance, but BMW and Audi pay attention to each other's products more than I believe any of us know. Especially with the RS v. M battles. They are two very competitive German companies.

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TheBoss - 4/7/2008 4:32:22 PM

-5 Boost

There's nothin to worry about, Nobody in their tight mind buys a BMW or AUDI for handling dynamics. They can try all they want, but everyone knows Nissan is where it's at when superior handling is priority one!!

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huu76 - 4/7/2008 6:24:27 PM

-5 Boost

chip,
Journalists have been conditioned to compare everything to BMW's. Give them skateboards and they'd probably compare a Tony Hawk to the 5-series skateboard.

If you ask them, most probably wouldn't even know why they benchmark BMW's. Apparently BMW's now stand for refined, urban driving with fast 0-60 times, not handling or feel or other crap so-called enthusiasts dream up.

I understand why BMW has chosen to Lexify their cars, you ch