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Top 10 Least Fuel-Efficient Hybrids: All Lexus hybrids on the list

omarrana submitted on 09/24/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 3:58 PM
from: www.egmcartech.com

[83] user comments | category: Misc News

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Top 10 Least Fuel-Efficient Hybrids: All Lexus hybrids on the list

Seems like every auto maker is offering hybrid variants to their lineups these days. Volkswagen just announced today that it is looking into offering hybrid options in all its models. That’s good news for you fuel-efficiency freaks and environment lovers right?

Sadly enough most auto makers are putting out hybrid trucks, SUVs and luxury sedans that aren’t much more fuel efficient than counterparts. Since the average gas mileage of hybrid models available in the U.S. is 33 miles per gallon (combined city and highway), Forbes decided to compile a list of Top 10 hybrids that get less than 33 miles per gallon. Toyota, who is well known for offering amazing hybrids, dominated the list with 4 cars. In fact, all of Lexus’ hybrids appear on the list.

Click through for the list of the Top 10 Least Fuel-Efficient Hybrids... Read Article

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budfrogS4 - 9/24/2007 4:53:19 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

It's a simple truth. The fact of the matter is nobody wants a luxury vehicle that doesn't drive like a luxury vehicle. This is why we need clean diesels - bettery yet, hybrid diesels. They perform while actually getting good gas mileage.

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IamEvilHomer - 9/24/2007 5:07:17 PM

0 Boost

hybrid and diesels will probably not sell togeather because they both cost extra money and $$$ will be a factor

but that would rock

S4cabriofoxone - 9/24/2007 5:12:58 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

EvilHomer, the ML450 Bluetec Hybrid is on the horizon. Believe me, it will sell, especially in luxury cars, whose buyers can afford it.

budfrogS4 - 9/24/2007 5:39:42 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Don't forget all of the E/S/? 320 bluetec that MB unveiled at Frankfurt.

S4cabriofoxone - 9/24/2007 5:14:55 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Well, this is not unexpected. The Lexus hybrids are supposed "performance" vehicles- but what irks me about them is that they don't get much of a performance advantage (GS450h vs. GS350, RX400h vs. RX350) or even none at all (LS460L vs. LS600hL), nor do they provide much better mileage- if it's any better.

If anyone wants a "true" Lexus hybrid, they should hold out for an ISh model.

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Rupert - 9/24/2007 5:59:24 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

Random note:

The Lexus UK website is now displaying full specs and figures...
our version gets (in US MPG on EU cycle) 20.8 city, 29 highway, 25 combined, and does 0-60 in...6.6 seconds.

So it's a full second slower than an A8 4.2 tdi, gets slightly worse mpg (in all situations)...and costs about 30000 dollars more.
As they say in Spain; Que????

Why is yours so much quicker???

S4cabriofoxone - 9/24/2007 6:17:37 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Okay, Xero. But if they want to make it a performance line they may as well go all-out. The purpose of their hybrid lineup is not clear- if they want to make hybrids, they should be fuel efficient! That's what hybrid buyers care about, NOT straight line acceleration!

And, I'm being completely rational right now- a diesel is truly the best way to do this. A GS300d would be a very good addition the the line; like the E320 Bluetec vs. E350, it could be as quick as the GS350 while getting mileage in the low-30s. Why not? If they market it well, it will sell.

Bill - 9/24/2007 6:29:38 PM

+2 Boost

I think the European Lexus' get gear ratios biased towards fuel economy at the expense of acceleration. Mercedes does this for their US-spec models: quicker 0-60 times at the expense of poorer fuel economy.

rok_altima - 9/24/2007 6:00:02 PM

+3 Boost

I didn't know all luxury buyers are into the status of being green when many true luxury cars have so-so fuel mileage. Plus when you add equipment like the hybrid, which for the past 7 years or so has been touted as being for fuel economy, fuel economy, fuel economy...it is hard for consumers to adjust in their mind what this product is worth when you're not getting the "fuel economy" that should go with a hybrid...why pay the extra price?

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budfrogS4 - 9/24/2007 6:08:17 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I tried looking for emission numbers between the "normal" and hybrid LS/GS/RX models but I wasn't successful. Can you provide a link? I would just like proof because usually comparable fuel efficiencies result in comparable emissions.

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/24/2007 6:23:28 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

"Anyone with half a brain knows how laughable this attempt is made purely to attack Lexus, whose hybrids are all about achieving great performance while emitting much less greenhouse gas than cars with similar performance."

This is not some huge conspiracy against Lexus, Xero. It's just the truth.

Okay, so the GS450h is 0.3 sec quicker than the GS350 and 0.1 sec quicker than the GS460 (just guessing). But why can't it be truly fuel efficient, also? There's no excuse for a hybrid vehicle, "luxury" or not, getting 24mpg on the combined cycle. If I were shopping for a GS, I just wouldn't see myself getting the GS450h over the similarly fuel efficient (actually, more efficient) GS350 for less money and with adequate performance. I once again revert back to diesels- they just make so much sense. If Toylex is dead set on hybrids, then at least produce a diesel hybrid like Mercedes-Benz. THAT would be the ultimate green machine, for the time being.

But I'd like to add one more thing- luxury customers can sacrifice some performance for fuel economy in the case of the GS450h. "But they don't have to," I can already hear you saying. They SHOULD. I think most of them would be okay with the GS450h getting from 0-60 in 6.5 sec if it attained over 30mpg. That would be a truly green luxury sedan, and I would have a lot more respect for it than I do now.

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Bill - 9/24/2007 6:30:59 PM

+3 Boost

I like how Xero gets all defensive (and full of lame excuses) when his favorite company gets slammed. Go join david989 and preaching how "German fanboys" are posting these lies just to make Lexus look bad...

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Bill - 9/24/2007 6:43:56 PM

+1 Boost

Sounds good to me...

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MrGunFun - 9/24/2007 5:58:15 PMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

Ewwww Lexus
Well, at least I'm glad lexus is doing well in hybrid business.

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david989 - 9/24/2007 6:01:36 PM

-11 Boost

What a bunch of bull. Lexus hybrids are even more fuel efficient than some shitty European economy car with a 2 horsepower diesel engine. This list was clearly designed to make Lexus look bad. Another German fanboy hating on Lexus as usual...

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MrGunFun - 9/24/2007 7:21:13 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

aren't you suppose to be happy for Lexus making the list?
What other lists do you see lexus in it. None.

Be proud of yourself.

jwink24 - 9/25/2007 2:15:57 PM

0 Boost

yeah sure fewer trips to fuel pump, but more trips to the service department

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528i - 9/24/2007 6:18:45 PMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

Lexus.

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DaHarder - 9/24/2007 6:31:51 PM

+1 Boost

Please...

I'm no LEXUS fan-boy, but I have to take this as little more than a stab at them.

What LEXUS hybrids do offer is the power/performance of larger displacement/less efficient power-trains in more efficiency/hybrid powertrains.

Of those I know that actually own LEXUS hybrids, none of them particularly care about gas millage that much anyway, they just want the most expensive/fully-loaded model LEXUS offered... LOL!

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Rupert - 9/24/2007 6:41:34 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

The article is of course unfair, Lexus hybrids are bigger, heavier and faster than fuel efficiency biased hybrids.
I am being serious, there is no sarcasm here.

it may as well say "studies find that heavy cars with big engines consume more fuel than small cars with little engines".

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Bill - 9/24/2007 6:52:51 PM

+2 Boost

Good point.

However Lexus also emphasizes the good "FUEL ECONOMY" of their hybrids here - and that's not the case in real world driving for the most part.

False marketing at its best. Didn't they do the same in the UK, and got their advertisements banned?

Rupert - 9/25/2007 12:47:41 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

They said "low emissions" for the RX hybrid, which is BS, as it emits just as much as a Freelander/Rav 4 type thing diesel, and they are certainly not "low". Low for its size and performance but otherwise, no.

GS450h - 9/27/2007 12:08:13 PM

+1 Boost

I don't know where they got those MPG figures but they are BS. 23MPG for the GS450h?. I've had one now for 13K miles and have averaged 26.2 MPG in fairly aggresive mixed hwy/city driving. My best trip average consumption is 32.8 MPG and my worst has been 22.4.

Designer1 - 9/24/2007 6:49:56 PM

-1 Boost

What rocket scientist came up with the formula that the average hybrid MPG is 33? How can you compare this average that you can get from a 4 cylinder hybrid vs. V6 or V8 and expect the later two to give you the same number? ugh!!

Yet another worthless and waste of time article/research.

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BMW4me4ever - 9/24/2007 7:05:18 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

So, if I understand this correctly, then I am able to get a Lexus GS450h which costs more, smaller trunk due to a large battery in order to get the same gas mileage as a gas version. If Hybrid's are so green, then what happens in about 8 to 10 years to the batteries when they need to be replaced? Hybrid's are green now, but later not so green. Makes all the sense to me ........

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EL34 - 9/24/2007 7:51:41 PM

+1 Boost

What a joke!!!

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MercedesKing - 9/24/2007 10:08:01 PM

+5 Boost

Your career or automotive expertise?

omarrana - 9/24/2007 8:01:57 PM

+2 Boost

Mercedes says that the S400 hybrid will be able to go from 0 to 60 mph in about 7.3 seconds and will be the most fuel-efficient luxury sedan in the world... not only that...The F 700 with its innovative DIESOTTO and hybrid drive has fuel economy of 44 mpg

That's a true luxury hybrid

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MercedesKing - 9/24/2007 10:17:18 PM

+5 Boost

The F700 needs to go through a few 'design rehabilitations'.

ErichHartmann - 9/25/2007 6:08:59 AM

+2 Boost

they're hybrids are not supposed to be fuel efficient. at least not compared to other hybrids.

Really? Because here in Germany Lexus markets them as a "fuel efficient" alternative to their gasoline models. German consumers are not interested in the overweight gasoline-hybrids that Lexus offers because there are more fuel efficient and equally clean diesels available in this market. With clean I stress clean for a diesel engine.

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enthusiastx11 - 9/25/2007 12:12:07 PM

+1 Boost

nicad:

there's no point in comparing those cars.

the LS600h doesn't even APPROACH S600 performance, let alone styling.

the GS450h approaches 550i acceleration but doesn't even come close in handling terms.

lexus is trying to be all things to all people with these hybrids and as a result hasn't pleased either the luxury performance buyer or the green buyer.

that's why they've only been able to move 2,000 GSh per year in the ENTIRE US. LSh sells in even smaller numbers. please do explain.

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/25/2007 12:18:03 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"the GS450h? compare it to the 550i."

Why, when the 535i is just about as quick as the GS450h with better fuel economy and a lower price? The 550i is somewhat obsolete. So is the GS450h, next to the GS350.

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/25/2007 11:16:39 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

"Lexus markets hybrids are "fuel efficient alternatives to their GASOLINE counterparts". not other hybrids. get it yet? or are you that slow?"

Hmm. Read my post. THE GS350 IS MORE FUEL EFFICIENT THAN THE GS450H!!! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!!! The hybrid offers NOTHING! Zero! Zilch! Now swallow your damn pride and put in a diesel already!

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enthusiastx11 - 9/26/2007 2:47:05 AM

+1 Boost

nicad:

the LS600h gets the same combined MPG as the LS460--just visit the lexus website. oh, and the LS600h is slower. and costs $40,000 more. so please do tell me...what's the point of this car?

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kpaxx - 9/25/2007 9:28:22 AM

0 Boost

The "CNW report" determines the fact that most hybrids are not green vehicles because of the increased resources used to produce them.

Hence Hybrids are neither green nor fuel efficient.

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M35MT - 9/25/2007 10:14:20 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Then why are the Germans jumping into the game now?

komododave - 9/26/2007 1:14:22 PM

0 Boost

because it's a status symbol just like anyone might want a lexus L instead of a toyota T.....wait, I just realized how uninspired even they're logos are.....

M35MT - 9/25/2007 10:19:48 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Everyone's right. They dont get much better fuel econ overall, unless you sit in city traffic all day, however, the real advantage is the greenhouse gas emissions, which I'm basing on facts:

http://www.data360.org/graph_group.aspx?Graph_Group_Id=363

Note that the Lexus GS hybrid and RX hybrid emit lower emissions than their gas powered counter parts. They also emit lower emissions than a BMW 325i, which is not a 'fast' car by any means.

I am not a hybrid fan nor a Lexus fan. I think its all BS, we should be focusing on Hydrogen - but that's further done the road...

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answer - 9/25/2007 11:24:45 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Each and every one of the hybrids on that list still offer better fuel effeciency than similar cars in their respective class.

That is the point of a hybrid.

Dumbasses.

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enthusiastx11 - 9/25/2007 12:15:24 PM

0 Boost

SLIGHTLY better fuel economy in exchange for significantly higher prices relative to gas counterparts and lesser performance relative to competitors.

sales of the lexus hybrid sedans are dismal. please explain why....

M35MT - 9/25/2007 12:46:48 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

why? because not everyone cares to spend extra money to emit less emissions.

SixxFive - 9/25/2007 12:30:51 PM

0 Boost

To those that say that this article was written just to bash Lexus: you probably didn't notice that this article was written by Forbes magazine. The truth is the truth.

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answer - 9/25/2007 12:50:35 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Plus quieter operation and smoother power delivery.

If the sales of the hybrid sedans are "dismal" as you say, I would say the culprit lies in the price.

A lot of people see long term goals like hydrogen/electric/solar powerplants as desirable, and rightfully so.

However, to poop on short term solutions that are providing benefits is silly.

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/25/2007 11:18:30 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"Plus quieter operation and smoother power delivery."

A.k.a. absolutely no feedback from the engine, which is not enjoyable. It's too quiet. I want some exhaust note. I don't care about "smoother power delivery" as long as I get a good kick in the backside when I press the pedal down.

answer - 9/26/2007 10:56:17 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

OK. That's you. You are not the only one buying cars, so please don't dictate your preferences accross the board of consumers.

Why oh why can't people here accept the fact that people don't all want the same exact things from a car.

GS450h - 9/27/2007 12:27:04 PM

+1 Boost

You get a good kick on the backside when accelerating on the GS450h, the difference being you just don't hear it coming.

JRobUSC - 9/25/2007 5:58:50 PM

+3 Boost

"yeah, what is Lexus thinking? i mean, who would buy the LS600h, right? wait...it's sold out for a year. oops!"

So are the top models of all the "premium" luxury sedans. When you only make a few, they tend to sell out.

"btw, the LS600h is faster then the BMW 760 in USA (in europe Lexus hybrids are slower for better fuel economy)."

No, it isn't. Lexus LS600h 5.5 seconds, BMW 760Li 5.4 seconds.

"GS450h is crazy fast. just as fast as BMW 550i"

Also no. GS450h 5.3 seconds, 550i 5.0 seconds. The GS450h is also no quicker than the 535i or even the GS350, which Motor Trend clocked with identical times 0-60 and through the 1/4 mile as the GS450h. And those cost less, have useable trunks, etc.

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/25/2007 11:21:22 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

"and the 760 does 0-60 in 5.6 last i checked, but what's the difference? you proved my point. 5.4 or 5.5 or 5.6 the performance of the LS600h and 760 is the same really. only the LS pollutes 70% less CO2 and eats less gas."

Great job, comparing the LS to the slowest V12-powered sedan on the market (760). The 760Li is at a disadvantage compared to the 750Li- nearly identical numbers. The only thing you get is a badge, basically.

Which is, in actuality, the same case as LS460 vs. LS600. The LS460 is quicker (5.4 sec), just as luxurious, they look nearly identical and the non-hybrid gets better mileage on the highway. It's also easier to drive due to the 900lb lower curb weight.

However, you get a tangible performance advantage with either the A8L W12 or (especially) S600, which makes up for the lost fuel economy.

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enthusiastx11 - 9/26/2007 2:50:30 AM

0 Boost

nicad:

the GSh is a pointless car.

by the way, in car & driver tests of hard driving the GS450h got 20mpg overall while the 550i got 17MPG. whoopee.

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Porschinator - 9/25/2007 6:54:51 PM

+2 Boost

Its always easier for someone to bash another car maker when they have bad results than to own up on trash about the car maker they like...lol.

No big surprise here. Toyota never made a hybrid that made its claims in MPG in the real world. Good try though and mostly gimmick for now. Perhaps better results in future.

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monkeyrun - 9/25/2007 7:35:46 PM

+1 Boost

I always wonder why would anyone create a hybrid with less than 30 miles per gallon.

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/25/2007 11:23:44 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

You don't udnerstand something, nicad. It was a noble effort. I had expected the LS600hL to be significantly quicker as well as more efficient than the LS460L. But it's just not. The product was not executed well. Obviously, you continue to deny/avoid this. It's not like this is permanent- you never know, Lexus may make a 500hp next-gen LS600hL that gets 30mpg on the highway. That would be extremely impressive, although it probably won't happen. I'm hoping for a 25mpg average on the next model, though. With better performance.

enthusiastx11 - 9/26/2007 2:55:06 AM

+2 Boost

you're fighting a losing battle here nicad.

the LS600h is a disappointment in performance and green terms.

for yet another reality check, read the ny times article attached. of course, you'll probably claim that mercedes or bmw own the ny times. sigh...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/automobiles/autoreviews/15AUTO.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Kinger - 9/26/2007 8:33:53 AM

+2 Boost

The 760li goes from 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, the LS600h takes 6 according to edmunds. I'd hardly call that the same performance wise. Fuel economy wise the LS is rated at 20/22 and the 760Li is rated at 15/23. The benefits just aren't there for mew with the Lexus.

Kinger - 9/27/2007 7:38:23 AM

+1 Boost

I'd hardly call the difference between 20/22 mpg and 15/23 mpg for urban/highway eating way more gas. The German's usually seem to be conservative with their 0-60 times, Lexus seem to be the opposite.

huu76 - 9/25/2007 9:31:07 PM

0 Boost

Meh, reword the list to say "Top high performance hybrids with above average fuel economy" and Lexus will dominate also.

What about the list that shows highest mileage hybrids? Oh yes, Toyota dominates that too.

I'm sure they remembered to completely and absolutely ignore emissions just to spin it their way.

I'd like to see an alternative fuel list that shows annual oil consumption by vehicle. Good news ladies, diesels would take home the greased pig trophy hands down.

reply to this comment

komododave - 9/26/2007 1:03:55 PM

+1 Boost

That list is ridiculous. Not only are 3 of those vehicles discontinued( accord, silverado, and sierra) but the supposed worst isn't even for sale yet(malibu). I can understand the Lexus ones because, like the accord, they aren't built for max fuel economy, theyre built for luxury and performance with the status of hybrid. The truck ones really get me because they weren't even really hybrids, they were more like portable generators for worksites and had plugs for tools. I sold chevys for 2 years and I never saw one. We didn't even consider selling them and in 2 years only one guy asked about it. The hybrid market is getting diverse enough that you can't just compare a hybrid vs a hybrid, just like you can't compare a truck to a hatchback coupe. Each style has it's own market, or in the case of the trucks, no market.

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Porschinator - 9/26/2007 2:29:17 PM

+1 Boost

I like how nicad calls people idiots when they do not agree with him. One of the signs of a true idiot is someone that has to resort to calling someone names instead of coming up with a valid argument. lol

If you do not like the results create your own magazine, run road tests and let us know the results. Until then we will continue to read from other sources. To me it is obvious that hybrid technology in a heavy vehicle will not have near the MPG impact of a compact vehicle. It is more of a gimmick to charge $$$ for hybrid tech to be installed.

New LS is a nice car and 21 MPG was not achieved in real world testing. The 600L hybrid got 1 less MPG than the 460L non-hybrid! And Lexus wants $32000 mark up for hybrid! LOL suckers....

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Porschinator - 9/26/2007 2:35:44 PM

0 Boost

BTW - Lexus claims LS600hL would get over 30MPG, again never acheived in the real world. Very nice car. A friends parents got one, but not sure how Toyota gets away with exaggerated MPG claims on hybrids. Prius gets 60 MPG? I do not know one person that got over 45MPG.

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GS450h - 9/27/2007 12:13:17 PM

+1 Boost

I have averaged 26.2 MPG for 13000 miles in my GS. The Lexus hybrid MPG claims are spot on.

Dr550 - 9/27/2007 1:36:15 AM

+1 Boost

mpg in 550 depends on driving sytle, a/c, and tires. prefer michellin low profile to bridgestone run flats.

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