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Toyota Says: Find Success In Formula One In Two Years Or Else !

Agent009 submitted on 12/31/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 10:28 AM
from: www.motorauthority.com

[102] user comments | category: Misc News

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Toyota Says: Find Success In Formula One In Two Years Or Else !

Team principal Tadashi Yamashina says he has been given two more years to deliver the goods for Toyota in formula one.

The Japanese took the reigns of the struggling Cologne based team earlier this year, following a half decade of underperformance despite Toyota’s top annual budget. “(For Toyota) to become stronger it is more important to improve the level of organisation in general rather than to rely on the power of one person,” he said in Toyota’s latest Motorsports Annual Report.

“My job is to mobilise the resources to achieve that. I have been given two more years.

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Htay7500 - 12/31/2007 10:38:00 AM

+1 Boost

I smell flame war.

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pacotacolol - 12/31/2007 10:48:32 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

why did toyota get into that in the first place?

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kart1 - 12/31/2007 11:28:01 AM

+3 Boost

You mean racing? It is good advertisement. You know race on sunday sell on monday.

ThierryHenry14 - 12/31/2007 12:13:55 PM

+4 Boost

Its win on Sundays, sell on Mondays... key word is win, but I guess Toyota doesn't really care...

Toyota's case, don't win on Sundays, sell on Mondays anyways... lol

XYZZ - 1/2/2008 3:35:11 AM

+4 Boost

in all other racing venues toyota entered (off road trucks, CART, IRL) they did extremely well.

F1 it seems, requires MORE than mere technical excellence. the behind the scenes politicking is on par or worse than nascar. and its known that Czar Bernie E is the motorsports equal of the likes of hitler, stalin, etc.

Bill - 12/31/2007 11:38:45 AM

-1 Boost

They can start by listening to driver input. Ralf Schumacher was talking smack about his Toyota F1 car and Toyota made no effort to improve their cars despite driver feedback from R. Schumacher.

Most people don't realize how important this is. R. Schumacher drives the car: he knows what needs to be fixed.

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Bill - 12/31/2007 1:20:24 PM

+1 Boost

You should start reading other sources other than Toyota or Lexus websites.

Jarno also complained about the Toyota F1 car. He especially didn't like the braking feel and according to insider information, his engine tended to heavily overheat near the end of races. Weird, eh?

Bill - 12/31/2007 4:32:58 PM

-1 Boost

Ralf Schumacher complained about his Toyota. Fact. Look it up. You'll find a bunch of complaints from him. Toyota didn't react. R. Schumacher is a good driver, but give him a "crap car" and what can he do?

ThierryHenry14 - 12/31/2007 5:17:16 PM

+1 Boost

In my book, getting 8 pts (Jarno) and getting 5 pts (Ralf) is not that far off, and are both pathetic outputs, regardless.

Agent009 - 12/31/2007 12:39:22 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

F1 is extremely competitive, and you have to be willing to go radical to win. Toyota's approach over the last few years has been slow improvement each year. The F1 scene moves too fast for that to be effective.

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ThierryHenry14 - 12/31/2007 12:15:42 PM

+4 Boost

Money doesn't buy performance... They really need to hire some new engineers and directors who will listen to what Schuey and Jarno has to say about the car. Hopefully, this year, they will be more competitive.

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LexSucks - 12/31/2007 12:46:29 PM

-5 Boost

I cannot tell you the amount of times that folks here have said that Toyota can be successful in whatever they chose to do. I guess not. And what do those folks have to say now?

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toolatetorace - 12/31/2007 1:49:51 PM

-2 Boost

Looks like the Toyty team is run by someone from NASCAR called Cheap Chip Ganaski and is always trying to make his buck go farther but not his cars

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JUGNU - 12/31/2007 2:40:59 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

U mean Toyota should listen to that crap R Schumacher who was getting second highest money behind kimi and and always crashes in the first lap. and he was outclassed by Jarno.

I hope next Season Toyota improves and that Ralf replacement bring some better results. I am sure if he just avoid accidents (Ralf probably had the max retirements this season of any driver ever) and bring the car home, Toyota will have more points than tha this season.

JUGNU

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ThierryHenry14 - 12/31/2007 5:21:01 PM

-3 Boost

Ralf had 5 points, only three points away from Jarno. I think that they both stunk on the grid. I think that the car just needs better engineering, whether its aero kits, or just handling, because its got decent speed on the straights...

ThierryHenry14 - 12/31/2007 5:22:47 PM

-1 Boost

Well, for Toyota, hopefully, with Timo Glock in there, they will free up lots of capital from Salary to engineering, not that they needed that money. They already had one of the highest F1 budget on the grid.

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M53R - 1/1/2008 1:37:31 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

No! We need them in F1?! Otherwise, who ll be competiting on the last positions? :P

And yes I do realise toyota usually finishes at like 8th or so but this was a joke :)

happy new year!

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M53R - 1/1/2008 8:30:31 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

I watch F1 dude.

Mercedes was competing on the top spot until they were caught with info 'stolen' from ferrari. Their drivers also have the most points.

On the other hand, Toyota is only ahead off teams with no points at all....

Lets check the facts, BMW sauberF1 team started in 2006, beat Toyota in their 1st year. On their second year, 2007, they were 2nd place behind Ferrari while Toyota is 5th or so, with less than half BMW's points.

M53R - 1/1/2008 3:36:15 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

5 Red Bull-Renault 24
6 Toyota 13
7 STR-Ferrari 8
8 Honda 6
9 Super Aguri-Honda 4
10 Spyker-Ferrari 1

Have fun competing with those :)

And yes I do watch F1, not as often as I used to ofcourse, but if Im not mistaken toyota spends more money on F1 than all the other teams, and yet, after 5 years, not one win. That, with them hiring engineers from other manufacturers.

I think any team with Toyota's F1 budget would be in a much better position. Too bad their reliability sucks in F1!

On the other hand, even though BMW bought sauber, which as you stated had 10+ years of experience, they if you havent noticed did better than what they were doing in 2004, so BMW did a good job in making Sauber go up and become more competitive. 2nd place in BMW's 2nd year as the owner of the team.

And yes, I didnt have that much info about the cheating incedent, but thanks for keeping me up to date. :)

ThierryHenry14 - 1/1/2008 8:34:53 PM

-1 Boost

I'll let you know... January 2007... because in the 2007 season, BMW dropped the Sauber name and developed its own car from scratch. 2008 will the BMW's second year without sauber name, 3rd as a team owner and developer.

M53R - 1/2/2008 3:45:54 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

No but when you usually see the ranking, you dont really look at the bottom of the list, where Toyota rules. :)

JUGNU - 1/1/2008 4:58:20 AMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

and also so much for Toyota cheated, Mclaren Mercedes have done the father of all cheatings. Their all heirtage and prestige is now = 0.

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ThierryHenry14 - 1/1/2008 4:05:34 PM

-2 Boost

who got sued?

JUGNU - 1/1/2008 5:01:46 AMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

and also so much for Toyota cheated, Mclaren Mercedes have done the father of all cheatings. Their all heirtage and prestige is now = 0.

fasotonekiller

"Its a matter of time before they are gone"

Pray for your beloved cheaters (Mclaren Mercedes) to be their in F1 next season, i think they should be kicked out.

JUGNU

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M53R - 1/1/2008 8:33:09 AMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

Im not sure, but I dont think there was any proof that the info "stolen" from Ferrari was used in the Mclaren F1 cars. Plus they were competing for the top spot before they were caught.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 1/1/2008 5:44:09 AM

-4 Boost

This is embarrassing

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ThierryHenry14 - 1/1/2008 4:11:31 PM

-5 Boost

Prior to conviction, Mclaren-Mercedes produced many victories and even constructor title. Afterwards, the car still produced victory. Either way, Mclaren Mercedes still won races, something that Toyota, which is a good team, cannot do.

I don't knock on Toyota, just because an idiot like yourself, Lexus Admirer, continue to make them look bad.

ThierryHenry14 - 1/1/2008 10:21:37 PM

-2 Boost

1998-Title
1999-2nd
2000-2nd
2001-2nd
2002-3rd
2003-rd
2004-5th
2005-2nd
2006-3rd
2007-1st but no disqualified.

Mclaren Results. I guess they weren't too competitive, coming in 2nd in about 5 years since their construction title.

Defend toyota all you want, but don't get Mclaren Mercedes in this when you don't know anything about F1.

Last I read, you brought Mclaren into the conversation. So yes, you are the idiot. It doesn't matter if they are the most successful in the past 5 years or what, point being, they do not win. Like I said, if you are satisfied with being the best of the losers, thats fine. All I know is Toyota hasn't won, and thats got to change, given their budget.

I'm not a hypocrit. I think BMW should be doing much better, but since they haven't won, its a big disappointment so far.

And this will be my last post against you, because its not worth talking to thick headed idiots who know nothing about motorsports.

ThierryHenry14 - 1/2/2008 9:10:02 PM

-3 Boost

Lexus Admirer

alright, honest opinion, because you were the one who bought up Mclaren. Lets forget about all other teams right now.

Do you think that Toyota's F1 program has been a success thus far, or do you think otherwise. I want an honest opinion. forget where they rank against others.

My honest opinion, I think that they have failed to hit their mark thus far, given their budget and how much they pour into it. That is why the factory is giving the team another 2 years, if this headline is really true. I'm not knocking on you, or toyota, or any other team. I just want an honest opinion at what you think about Toyota's progress in the 5 years they have participated in F1 so far. Lets try to have a reasonable conversation. Do you think they could have done better than they are now? Again, forget comparing them to another team.

ThierryHenry14 - 1/3/2008 5:54:04 PM

0 Boost

that still doesn't answer if they are a success so far. please answer that. I don't mean for you to get offensive.

TheSailor - 1/1/2008 7:28:21 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Toyota need to do something radical if they want to be competitive... Not winning a single grand prix in that many years is simply pathetic... Especially when you factor in that they had the most powerful engines AND the biggest budget on the grid when they started. Plus the fact that they bought several high profile engineers from the "competitors".

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ThierryHenry14 - 1/1/2008 4:29:36 PM

0 Boost

So you are now fine with not winning? You are happy with being the best loser now? I don't care what you say, but Toyota is in F1 to win. Not winning is not success.

TheSailor - 1/1/2008 5:09:38 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

BMW-Sauber have started as much from scratch as Toyota (Stealing other teams engineers isn't really starting from scratch)... How do you think they suddenly came up with a F1-chassis and the most powerful engine(!!) on the grid five years ago? They didn't just pull it out of a hat, that is for sure!
Anyway, the game isn't any different for Toyota than the rest of the pack! The cars of five years ago have nothing to do with the cars they drive today... The overall shape might look somewhat similar, but neither the engine or the aerodynamics parts are anything like what they were five years ago, so though other teams might have been in the game for longer, the playing field is actually incredibly fair for all! They basically have (or had until the big freeze) to redesign their cars, from one end to the other each year... And still Toyota haven't managed to even get a single win!

And as ThierryHenry mentioned, not ever winning anything isn't doing good! Honda might have been in the game for longer, but even so, compared to their relative experience, they've done way better (isn't this the way you usually do it? twisting facts beyond recognition?)... Actually, when you factor in that Toyota bought to top drivers (Ralph Schumacher have won grand prixs before joining Toyota in case you missed it... With 6 wins and 27 (!!) podium finishes in 182 races, he can't be as bad as the Toyota diehards claim... He is actually a pretty good driver... So you can't blame Toyotas bad fortune on him... As to Jarno... Well... He might not have been as successful as Ralph (still managed to win a grand prix pre-toyota though), he can't ba all that since he has participated in 184 grand prix...

13 points is just pathetic! That is so few points that it is just a matter of random events who gets the points! F1 is not about getting 1 or 2 points in some random Grand Prix... It is about competeing for first places, driver and constructor points... It is about getting noticed... The only thing Toyota F1 is known for is the incredible waste of money! Even the top brass at Toyota is realizing this, why can't you?

ThierryHenry14 - 1/1/2008 8:38:46 PM

0 Boost

I do... you just can't accept it. Any team that sets out to race and does not win, its a failure. Because you do not race for racing's sake. You race to win. Period. I do think many teams are failures. However, given the team budgets, I do not hold former teams like Minardi, Jordan, Spyker, and STR in the same level as Toyota. Thats the point.

ThierryHenry14 - 1/1/2008 10:25:36 PM

-2 Boost

but money can buy experienced designers, engineers, drivers, aero/dynic research, etc.

So yes, money has a lot to do with what a team is capable of...

TheSailor - 1/2/2008 1:39:28 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Since Honda have actually won grand prixs earlier, it means that their success is infinitely bigger than Toyotas!

As to toyota buying people from different sources, I can only see that as a huge plus... Instead of doing what BMW did and buy a team with no particular success (probably due to lack of knowledge and money), they had the freedom to choose exactly the engineers they wanted, they could costum build their entire team... Their first engine clearly proved this, however, they couldn't back the engine... BMW-Sauber however went from being a mediocre team always fighting to get a few points to suddenly being a real competitor! Give BMW one or two seasons, and they'll be right up there with McLaren and Ferrari!
And what the f*** are you talking about that the engineers at Toyota having several different goals within the organization?!? You can be damn sure that all employees of all the teams have one goal: To achieve the best possible result with the resources you've got! Toyota had the resources to become a winning team... They just didn't... Most probably because of incredibly bad team management!

Actually, the "sauber story" was incredibly close to that of Toyota until BMW got into the deal... in the 12 seasons from 1993 to 2005, they never won a single grand prix, they never started in pole position and they never achieved a fastest lap in any race... Then, along comes BMW and suddenly, everything gets way better... Just a freak event?! Hardly...

Anyway: After five seasons, they should have done better... The experience card doesn't work anymore! The "bad drivers" doesn't work as we know that Ralph was actually a somewhat successful driver before joining Toyota... This comes down to poor management and poor team spirit... In other words, a bad team...

TheSailor - 1/4/2008 7:54:19 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

"Maybe with that simplistic mentality of yours you can start up your own F1 team and let us know how it goes???"

If I had a budget like the one Toyota started out with, I think even I could do better than they did!

As to BMW building engines for other teams, true, but Toyota's problem has never been with the engines, I've said this before, but I'll just repeat it anyways: The Toyota engine was very good from the beginning, the problem is what they stuff it into! The car itself is bad...

And no, the experience card doesn't work, because according to your logic, more experience should mean that you are constantly improving... Not the case for Ferrari and definitely not the case for Toyota... Because what all of you toyota-guys who are just discussing this because it is called "toyota" are forgetting is that Toyota actually had a season where they got quite a few championship points, but now they've fallen right back down, meaning that either the experience they've gained haven't been put to good use or experience equals worse results (which it obviously doesn't)...

Also, if bringing engineers from different sources together doesn't work, howcome it worked for the afforementioned BMW-Sauber?! They've brought BMW-engine designers and the car designers together from different teams and that seems to be working out a treat after just two seasons!

Anyway, I don't know what we are actually discussing here, because as far as I can see, we agree... Toyota should have done better, they haven't achieved what you'd expect from a team with this kind of budget.

Designer1 - 1/1/2008 8:30:38 AM

+5 Boost

Has anyone thought that its really not the problem with the car but its the driver? How many Ferrari cars are there, do they all win the 1st spot?

So true, tuning or making the car better is definitly something must be done, but even then if you don't have the right driver then he'll always blame it on the car.

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M53R - 1/1/2008 8:34:43 AMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

hmm well.... when Ralph was in BMW Williams, he didnt have any problems in winning races or competing on the top spot, but when he went to Toyota....????

pacotacolol - 1/1/2008 10:08:56 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Happy New Year!

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JUGNU - 1/1/2008 12:12:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

M53R

"Im not sure, but I dont think there was any proof that the info "stolen" from Ferrari was used in the Mclaren F1 cars."

u need to update yourself. Mclaren Mercedes publically admitted (through a letter) that most of the team knew the data (Ferrari) and that it was more widely spread within the team then it was known earleir. and FIA technical commitee report confirmed that 3 different key components of 2008 Mclaren car is influenced by that Ferrari data.

They accepted it and now it's upto FIA and Ferrari, what to do with the cheaters.

Happy new Year

JUGNU

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M53R - 1/1/2008 12:50:35 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Alright, thanks for the update :)

happy new year

c36amg - 1/2/2008 3:39:49 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

lexus admirer why dont you come & compete with mclaren bring ur MERCEDES COPIED LS engine to the f1... lets see who wins !

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Bill - 1/2/2008 10:31:23 PM

-3 Boost

Funny how Lexus_Retard here keeps bashing McLaren-Mercedes. He's clearly avoiding the issue at hand, as stated by his fellow Lexus troll MichaelT.

Lexus essentially COPIED everything from Mercedes regarding design, strategy, luxury etc. Does that make them copiers? Oh wait, CHEATERS?

Grow up.

JUGNU - 1/2/2008 5:48:27 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

OK suppose Mclaren were not punished but they still would have finished second.

Mclaren 218 (cons.pointes won is Hungry race 15, not awarded because of that pitlane incident) = 203

Ferrari = 204.

Ferrari still beat the cheaters.

Let's hopen next season atleast we don't see a Red Mclaren (probably they copied the color too).

JUGNU

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M53R - 1/2/2008 9:00:33 AMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

Mclarens do have red in them, because of Vodafone... lol. Oh.... now I know why? ;)

Bill - 1/2/2008 10:28:30 PM

-2 Boost

Lexus_Admirer = MORON

Wasn't there some scandal a few years ago involving Toyota? Why weren't they banned for life?!

M53R - 1/2/2008 5:15:21 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Lexus_Admirer

Answer this question: If as you say or claim, a team needs about 40 years of experience to start winning (your excuse for Toyota's poor performance), then why is Toyota giving only 2 more years for the team to win? Doesnt this tell you they were expecting to win, with their huge budget and deep pockets? This only proves how much of a failure the whole Toyota F1 team is.

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ThierryHenry14 - 1/2/2008 5:30:31 PM

-2 Boost

why ask lexus admirer anything? he'll pull a ridiculous answer out of his arse and make himself believe its true.

ThierryHenry14 - 1/2/2008 9:13:28 PM

-2 Boost

I think that the "experience" statement is like the "heritage" statement that fanboys always pulls out. Its something that cannot be proven and is not measurable, because it takes time. I will ask you to stop using the experience card, as I have asked German fanboys to stop using the heritage card. Its like a last resort type of ordeal.

M53R - 1/3/2008 10:26:26 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

So why dont you go tell this to toyota? Or are they retarded for trying to win without experience? I mean, if its like you claim, they dont have experience, why do they even bother compete? They need another 40 years or so to start winning right? LOL.

Even if the team as a whole doesnt have experience, im quite sure they bought very experienced engineers to make the cars and everything. Thats a very poor excuse for their poor performance.

M53R - 1/4/2008 6:35:50 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

You should be their personal advisor then... too bad you arent.

TheSailor - 1/4/2008 7:56:56 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

"You have to start somewhere and unfortunately for Toyota and any new F1 teams, the learning curve is pretty steep."

Mkay... But apparantly, they are taking too long! Didn't you read the title?

As to the learning curve, if their constructor points is any indication, the Toyota learning curve have gone down again! That isn't how it is suppose to go, is it?

Htay7500 - 1/2/2008 6:25:09 PM

+1 Boost

what are the current rankings?

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ThierryHenry14 - 1/2/2008 7:44:26 PM

+1 Boost

2007 rankings:

http://www.formula1.com/results/team/

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