Toyota cutting hybrid costs, claims every car produced will be hybrid by 2020

Luxurious submitted on 05/11/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 12:11 PM
from: www.motorauthority.com

[35] user comments | category: Misc News

Tags: Toyota Future Hybrid Plans cost

Toyota Future Hybrid Plans cost

Toyota has always backed its hybrid technology as the key to reducing fuel consumption and carbon emissions, but as advanced as the technology is, diesel powered cars manage to offer similar levels of eco-friendliness but with more performance to boot. It doesn’t help that hybrid vehicles are considerably more expensive than their oil-burning counterparts as well.

That’s why Toyota is hard at work developing cheaper hybrid systems. Reuters reports that Toyota is hoping to make as much money from hybrids as it does from conventional cars by the end of the decade. The news comes from Toyota’s vice president in charge of powertrain development, Masatami Takimoto, who said cost cutting on the electric motor, battery and inverter were all showing positive results and by the time Toyota’s sales goal of one million hybrids annually is reached, it “expect margins to be equal to gasoline cars”. Takimoto also made the bold claim that by 2020, hybrids will be the standard drivetrain and account for “100 percent” of Toyota’s cars.

Last year it sold 313,000 hybrids and this year Toyota is expecting close to 430,000 sales. The most popular hybrid model, the Prius, has been suffering of late in the US because of a wind up of tax credits, which saw prices rise. Experts are predicting that the new model, due late next year or in only 2009, will feature a cheaper lithium-ion battery system.

As for alternatives, Takimoto mentioned that plug-in hybrids, which run on electricity alone and can be charged from a household power socket are still years away from being feasible. while diesel vehicles, as favored by the European carmakers, require expensive particulate filters and other traps that cost almost as much as the first generation hybrid technology.

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r_driver04 - 5/11/2007 12:34:41 PM

-6 Boost

????? That doesn't make much sense and is very doubtful. Then again, add auto start/stop to any car and you can call it a hybrid.

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LexusNumberOne4ever - 5/11/2007 12:37:10 PM

+3 Boost

ToMoCo is really obsessed with hybrids.

"...while diesel vehicles, as favored by the European carmakers, require expensive particulate filters and other traps that cost almost as much as the first generation hybrid technology."

Ha! I knew that there waas something wrong with diesels. Toyota isn't foolish.

enthusiastx11 - 5/12/2007 12:46:12 PM

-3 Boost

and diesel technology can't advance as well?
give me a break.
we still haven't seen this lithium ion battery yet.

SupraNeverBack - 5/11/2007 12:37:29 PM

+4 Boost

Singing clean diesels by German big 3 is just to get attentions before they can catch up with hybrids.

By 2010, Toyota will sell more than 1 million hybrids per year with the same margins as gasoline cars. When hybrids will be cheaper, cleaner, faster and more fuel efficient than diesels, who is going to buy a diesel?

Then couple years later, plug-in hybrids will get on the stage.

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TheSailor - 5/11/2007 1:21:56 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

NO... They say that their GOAL is to make it as profitable and cheap as gasoline cars... But they are still a long way off by the looks of it.

Bill - 5/13/2007 7:28:25 AM

0 Boost

What kind of garbage are you spewing, Supra?

By 2010 Toyota will sell 1 million hybrids? Is this factual evidence, or something that was invented inside your heard?

There will always be a market for diesels, especially in Europe as it is a trusted fuel source and it is seen as giving more driving pleasure (and better overall fuel economy) than any current hybrid.

izfuney - 5/13/2007 6:42:09 PM

+3 Boost

Stuff like "driving pleasure" for diesels make me laugh. No body buys a diesel in the UK for "driving pleasure". Its the for the mid management boffins who want big cars without paying the gas price. What does that mean - car with a luxury label, soft riding, leather everything.

EnnNorak - 5/11/2007 12:56:36 PM

-4 Boost

Toyota is politically correct but is headed for financial disaster if it places all its bets on hybrids. Or, maybe they plan to sell hybrids cheap and make up for it later with extremely high prices for the replacement battery pack. I know of a famous aerospace firm that sold a locomotive version of their turbine aircaft engine at well below cost knowing that when the time comes for overhaul, they would have a captive market that would be forced to pay an exorbitant price for overhaul to ensure the train keeps running.

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SupraNeverBack - 5/11/2007 1:05:53 PM

+7 Boost

First, battery life is longer than you thought.

Second, if total premium of the hybrid system costs only 2,000 dollars, how much do you think it will cost in 10+ years later?

enthusiastx11 - 5/12/2007 12:48:07 PM

-1 Boost

hey supra:

and if a 2008 C-class diesel gets 43 MPG just imagine what the next generation will get. hybrid has a lot of catch up to do on mileage...

enthusiastx11 - 5/12/2007 12:49:32 PM

-1 Boost

furthermore, diesels are among the longest lasting cars on the planet. they run for hundreds of thousands of miles--without the need for a very expensive new battery every 100k miles.

izfuney - 5/13/2007 6:38:16 PM

+3 Boost

FUD - the battery pack is warrantied for 100K miles . NOT self destruct at 100k miles. Do your home work .

Additionally, diesel is only workable in Europe because it is a) Subsidized b)Emissions are not controlled the way they are in USA.

Toyota/Honda etc have come up with the next gen tech in hybrids. The proof in that is
1) GM/BMW/Chrysler have just announced their dual stage Hybrid
2) Porsche/Audi/VW have commited whole heartedly to Hybrids. Porsche went as far to say that it would not use Diesels.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it .

Will_ - 5/11/2007 2:03:42 PM

+4 Boost

Sounds ideal and optimistic, but even I'm skeptical. However, the battery argument really does not hold any water here. Hybrids have been out for a significant amount of time now, no battery issues have arose. Keep in mind that these NiMH are recyclable. Toyota themselves pays a bounty to recover batteries of hybrids in wrecked condition or whatever and they are even looking into coming up with a process to rebuild and reuse the batteries. I can't keep stressing this information enough, apparently.

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kpaxx - 5/11/2007 3:21:20 PM

-2 Boost

Hybrid Car Owner do experience battery issues:

The one item that nobody has been talking about is the replacement costs for batteries—because nobody is replacing them. That's what I thought until I received an email from Ray Molton, who works in the real estate industry in Houston, Texas. Ray wrote, "My 2001 Toyota Prius lasted five years and 113,000 miles. And then the batteries seemed to die. My dealer estimated the replacement cost at $7,000. They recommended scrapping the car for parts."

Ray told me that Toyota had been "no help whatsoever on this issue." He called another dealer only to discover a larger estimate of $8,000 to $9,000. Even worse, Ray discovered that the Toyota shop had another 2001 Prius with a bad battery.

Quoted from:

http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/hidden-costs.html

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Will_ - 5/11/2007 3:43:39 PM

+6 Boost

Ray continued to appeal to Toyota's corporate offices, and finally got through to a customer care representative who promised to look at the Ray's expenses. He persisted at the local level, and finally got Metroplex Toyota in Houston to clean the corrosive cell on the salvage battery and install it—at half their normal price—in his Prius. The total bill, including rental car, salvage battery, service, and gasoline during the entire ordeal, was $1,345. Ray's Prius runs like a top again.

I shared Ray's story with my friend, Craig Van Batenburg, a master hybrid technician who conducts workshops with independent service shops around the country. "This is exactly why I am training indy techs to work on these cars," Craig said. "It is not a problem with the nickel metal hydride cells, but a corroded connection. This is common with any electrical connector on any part of any car. The dealerships don’t fix the connections. They replace the entire hybrid battery."

So Ray’s ordeal wasn’t caused by a failure of new hybrid battery technology—those batteries will last the life of the vehicle and will help save hundreds of gallons of gasoline for their owners. And the next generation of lithium ion batteries may be one of the keys to weaning America off its dependence on oil. The root of Ray's problems stemmed from an ordinary corroded connection, the failure of a huge corporation to respond to one of their customers, and the willingness of a local car dealership to profit handsomely from a problem rather than fix it at a reasonable cost. Unfortunately, these stories are just as hidden in the media as all of those so-called “hidden costs” of owning a hybrid.

Quoted from:

http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/hidden-costs.html

***

Posting only the worst parts of an article summarizing a hybrid-hater's experience is a bit misleading, so I went ahead and posted the rest of it. As it turns out, the guy only had to pay about $1,300 to get the car back in order, and the problem wasn't even the entire battery itself, but a corroded electrical component.

SupraNeverBack - 5/11/2007 3:54:16 PM

+2 Boost

Toyota said Prius battery replacement total including labor+parts will be $3,000. But that is the story of 2005!

enthusiastx11 - 5/12/2007 12:51:29 PM

0 Boost

i feel sorry for this ray guy.
having to take his car problems all the way up to toyota corporate!
less stressful to just buy a new car.

1970toyotamarc - 5/11/2007 4:21:47 PM

+1 Boost

"The most popular hybrid model, the Prius, has been suffering of late in the US because of a wind up of tax credits, which saw prices rise. "

Apparently this writerr has not seen sales figures for the past several months.

Smaller gas engines, and larger electric motors are the future as we reach peak oil. Toyota knows this now and is already planning for the future. Diesel engines run on the same petroleum as gasoline engines, the very source of energy that is running out. There is no viable future in petroleum. And hydrogen is still a joke. Electricity is the future, and hybrids will become less and less dependent on the gasoline part of their engines. We should already be at that point, with the electric cars of the '90s. But if we have to take a step backward to bring us forward at least Toyota is willing to do it.

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TheSailor - 5/11/2007 4:46:54 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

They might become more efficient than diesel cars, eventually, but as off now, they are still lacking behind their diesel counterparts... What I don't get is why they don't bolt the hybrid system to a diesel engine already... It can't be that hard and it would utilize the best of both worlds...

The way to go BTW, is not just making the engine part smaller, but to use a renewable fuel source such as bio diesel or plant oil which is CO2 neutral...

LexusNumberOne4ever - 5/12/2007 8:36:02 AM

-1 Boost

Hybrid systems display their max. efficiency when attached with high-revving drivetrains.

So diesel is not such a good idea.

enthusiastx11 - 5/12/2007 12:53:26 PM

+1 Boost

prius sales did drop slightly in 2006...a huge directional change from the growth rates of previous years. however, sales recovered after toyota began running AMAZING lease deals as low $199 with a decent downpayment.

WickedRabbit - 5/11/2007 7:04:36 PM

+2 Boost

with the recent announcement of CAFE standards increasing, alternative fuel is a very smart strategy for Toyota to be aiming for because frankly, it's easier to get 35mpg out of a Hybrid than it is to try to figure out new ways to make regular gasoline last longer. Plus, Toyota made a bold statement with the sport hybrid coupe concept that even hybrids can be pretty powerful. While I think it'll take people a little while to get use to a "sport car hybrid", the idea is very smart and also technically would make it the first super sport "practical" vehicle by offering near v12 performance with high 20's MPG and good sport mechanics. A few years from now the weight issue of hybrids will be eradicated and I imagine battery power won't be a concern as well. We could very well be seeing the first "drastic" change of cars for this century. We might have been promised flying cars for the year 2000, which obviously didn't pan out and probably never will (can you imagine giving flying licenses to people...people can barely drive...do you really want drunk idiots flying above your head?), but a century fill with hybrids? I could see that happening.

Give me a 335i coupe hybrid with the same performance levels and I'm all for it. Even the possible "hybrid Supra" sounds intriguing or even an LS coupe or GS coupe from lexus. That'd be pretty bad ass to me. Basically, EVERY kind of kind could actually become practical, while still offering high levels of performance.

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izfuney - 5/13/2007 6:47:35 PM

+3 Boost

Whoa - kudos for your reply there . Sort of the heavy on the logic, intelligent reply, that is not often seen on this board .

U could have gone "diesels make supermodels go goey in the knees" or "Hybrids are made by Satan, and using them will bring the armageddeon on us" .
But instead you posted an intelligent reply.

Rupert - 5/11/2007 7:37:56 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I can see the headline now:
World Supplies of Nickel Empty: Toyota Blamed.

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TheSailor - 5/11/2007 8:09:13 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Because we are already running low on nickel? Hardly... Bad joke!

Rupert - 5/12/2007 5:34:17 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

well i'm sorry i'm not up to date on the latest in world nickel supplies.
bit of humour please!

enthusiastx11 - 5/12/2007 12:55:10 PM

0 Boost

don't forget the massive air pollution from mining and smelting all that nickel. smelting makes auto emissions look like a breath of fresh air.

LexusNumberOne4ever - 5/13/2007 12:46:38 AM

-2 Boost

Do you know how much SPMs diesels release. Those things are carcinogens.

S4cabriofoxone - 5/13/2007 12:39:08 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Do you know what the Bluetec particulate filter is for?

LexusNumberOne4ever - 5/13/2007 1:44:12 PM

-1 Boost

Nope.

S4cabriofoxone - 5/14/2007 10:53:16 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

K, then I'm not going to labor myself over explaining it to you...

XYZZ - 5/13/2007 10:35:11 AM

+3 Boost

Will (referring to kpaxx):

"Posting only the worst parts of an article summarizing a hybrid-hater's experience is a bit misleading..."

LOL!

that IS typical of propagandists, people with axes to grind, haters, fuzzy thinkers, etc.

having actually studied propaganda, i know that it can be effective even with just 70% true statements. a mere 30% of false "facts" and outright disinformation, hidden in 70% factual material, can fool most people who are vulnerable to propagandists.

for the really vulnerable and blatant propagadists, they can reverse the figures: 30% factual for a semblence of "truth/reality" and 70% outright lies.

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XYZZ - 5/13/2007 10:39:15 AM

+2 Boost

i presume the references to nickel and mining toxic wastes are from readers of the "Hummer Greener than a Prius" article written by some college kid.

an outright PROPAGANDA piece if there ever was one.

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